BROADWEST (former West End Summit), 36 story Conrad Hilton Hotel/condo tower, 22 story/510,000 sq. ft. office tower, 4 story/125,000 sq. ft. retail/office, 1 acre plaza, 2,500 car garage, $490 million

[arkitekte]

I'm not so sure I would call his reputation tarnished. The guy started a project on speculation, the bubble burst, and he did the financially wise thing and stopped all work. But he held the land and here we are a decade later, and he is going to complete the project. And make a pretty penny off of it for that matter. I think that's a classic example of 'know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em'. He may be slightly tarnished in the public laymans eye, but professionally, I think that makes a wise developer.

If anyone should be considered tarnished, it's Tony G. That guy can't get anything built. Great, so he has this proposed marriot. Signature=fail. 505=fail. Sobro=crickets. Now he's getting public money for a project, but I still feel skeptical that it will happen.

 

Believe me, what the "public layman" thinks about a developer who can't get his stuff together isn't too far from what other developers and the money folks think.  

 

I want to know how the bidding process was for WES and I would also be interested to see the GC's that were bidding on it. 

[dmillsphoto]

I'm not so sure I would call his reputation tarnished. The guy started a project on speculation, the bubble burst, and he did the financially wise thing and stopped all work. But he held the land and here we are a decade later, and he is going to complete the project. And make a pretty penny off of it for that matter. I think that's a classic example of 'know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em'. He may be slightly tarnished in the public laymans eye, but professionally, I think that makes a wise developer.

If anyone should be considered tarnished, it's Tony G. That guy can't get anything built. Great, so he has this proposed marriot. Signature=fail. 505=fail. Sobro=crickets. Now he's getting public money for a project, but I still feel skeptical that it will happen.

 

Not going to spend too much time here, but the bubble burst long after Alex started. So yes, I would say that a ten-twelve year fiasco such as WES would tarnish his record. Comparing him to Tony G is, as 5th & Main Urbanite put it, is a little harsh on Tony. I agree with Ron, the man is going to have to speak soon to the delays.

[nashvillwill]

Ok. Geez. I was wrong. I guess I didn't realize his list was that long. I guess being so far away, I forget who is doing what.

I am corrected. My bad.

[MLBrumby]

Seems to me that HCA, Parallon and SCRI have such clout that they could decide to put a huge tower in the Gulch and forget all about Palmer.  Don't know why he can't get it up. 

[UTgrad09]

Ok. Geez. I was wrong. I guess I didn't realize his list was that long. I guess being so far away, I forget who is doing what.

I am corrected. My bad.

 

I think it's not that Tony can't get anything done, but he has extremely high ambitions...and when you propose something like Siggy, 505, or SoBro, you make a big splash in the media. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to get underway on those yet.

 

He gets stuff done...just not on the scale that either he or we would like to see. The Viridian was a pretty big deal...but it would be nothing compared to Siggy or 505. SoBro would just be a step up from Viridian.

[smeagolsfree]

Seems to me that HCA, Parallon and SCRI have such clout that they could decide to put a huge tower in the Gulch and forget all about Palmer.  Don't know why he can't get it up. 

Sounds like a case of crane erection dis-function. But at this point there is nothing poking out of the ground.

 

As far as Tony goes, you cannot have success with out some failure. He keeps on getting up and coming back. I spoke to a contractor that was about to move to Nashville and start the Signature Tower. Tony pulled the plug on that before it was out of the ground, otherwise we might have had a partially finished tower on that lot instead of a hole they had for 6 years at the WES site. The one thing the media keeps getting wrong is the Bells Bend fiasco. Tony was the developer hired by the owners to come up with a plan. To my knowledge he did not have anything invested in the project and probably made money off of the deal with the services rendered, ambitious as they were.

Now with all of that being said I am sure that Palmer has had deals fall through as well. Tony is very ambitious and therefore draws a lot more attention. We are fortunate we have two local developers in Nashville trying to make Nashville a better place, instead of a bunch of out of town developers making their $$$$ and leaving. I am afraid we are going to see more of that.

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

Seems to me that HCA, Parallon and SCRI have such clout that they could decide to put a huge tower in the Gulch and forget all about Palmer.  Don't know why he can't get it up. 

Yep! Funny ML.

Sounds like a case of crane erection dis-function. But at this point there is nothing poking out of the ground.

 

As far as Tony goes, you cannot have success with out some failure. He keeps on getting up and coming back. I spoke to a contractor that was about to move to Nashville and start the Signature Tower. Tony pulled the plug on that before it was out of the ground, otherwise we might have had a partially finished tower on that lot instead of a hole they had for 6 years at the WES site. The one thing the media keeps getting wrong is the Bells Bend fiasco. Tony was the developer hired by the owners to come up with a plan. To my knowledge he did not have anything invested in the project and probably made money off of the deal with the services rendered, ambitious as they were.

Now with all of that being said I am sure that Palmer has had deals fall through as well. Tony is very ambitious and therefore draws a lot more attention. We are fortunate we have two local developers in Nashville trying to make Nashville a better place, instead of a bunch of out of town developers making their $$$$ and leaving. I am afraid we are going to see more of that.

Debartolo left town right after he did One Nashville Place and never came back.

[dmillsphoto]

Nevin's write up on the stalled progress on WES - seems to be financial. Which is impressive given Intercontinental Hotels, SCRI, Parallon, and Metro Government incentives are all done, for all intents and purposes. 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2013/07/west-end-summit-development-stalls-due.html

[BnaBreaker]

Here we go again...

[smeagolsfree]

I really don't think we have anything to worry about. I do think the project will get out of the ground. I think this is certainly a little embarrassing for ASP. I think the delay will be short. I was wondering when this was going to come to light as this is such a major project that EVERYONE is watching and it may tarnish the companies reputation a little more than just Lake Palmer did for 5 or 6 years.

[captainwjm]

FWIW, for the last couple of days there has been a white van with a couple of white helmeted folks [engineers?] on-site at the West End entrance each morning.  Still no equipment on site.

 

Also, demo/reconstruction[?] began today on the Shell station across from this site.

[FromParkAveToTN]

I think I'm giving up on this project. I'm tired now. I can't go through this again.

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

I think I'm giving up on this project. I'm tired now. I can't go through this again.

Agreed whole heartedly

[dmillsphoto]

I drove by a couple days ago and continued to see people onsite. No equipment, but people are in and out - none of which appeared to be related to the Shell demo across the street (gone completely, now).

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

WES, The Federal Courthouse, The Hume Fogg Gymnasium, Signature Tower, and a few others are long gone flogged dead horses. Cannot go through it again.

[MLBrumby]

I think the most disappointing thing about WES is that would have energized that dead stretch of West End between the Gulch and Vandy, and it was a very nice plan for such a prominent hill.  And the Masonic Lodge, an interesting historic building was razed for the mud filled holes.  

[UTgrad09]

I don't think we should be talking about this like it is a certainly dead project. This delay is definitely curious and concerning...but considering the prospective tenants, I still think there's reason to be optimistic.

 

If Palmer is having THAT much trouble with financing, I wonder if it would be best for him to sell the plot & plans to another developer...or bring in a partner on this. Like others have said, it will be a serious blow to his reputation if he can't close the deal.

[bigeasy]

So are we getting Lake Palmer back?

[samsonh]

This project is happening. Calm down guys

[BnaBreaker]

I don't get it.  Yeah, the further delays are a little irritating.  But anyone saying that this project is dead is simply making stuff up, because there is no evidence to suggest that.

[e-dub]

it's easier to think something won't happen in nashville than to stick through it, and it seems more than 50% of proposals don't make it to construction; so the odds are on your side to think any project won't happen.

everyone likes to be right.

eric b

[MLBrumby]

I would much rather be wrong and this thing ends up getting built, but it has been delayed for nine years... and the contract with Parallon and SCRI is nothing more than a letter of intent.  If Palmer can't get financing on that, then he's got bigger problems than we all know about.  Here's the thing that (looking back) is very curious: Look back at the announcement of the project earlier this year... and all we saw on the website and articles was just a copy of the contract and recycled, photoshopped renderings of the two buildings.  Then we haven't seen any comparable contract on the website for the Intercontinental Hotel when that "contract" was announced.  And there hasn't been any movement or specifics from Palmer on how the buildings would sit at the site... and (don't overlook this salient fact) Palmer is a guy who loves the big announcement. So don't you think if he had a contract and updated plans for the WES that he would have posted them already?   I am thinking that there are several things going on behind the scenes... first HCA is having a time dealing with healthcare reform... and then they are also being pulled toward the One City project.  I think WES will not be built anytime soon... their LOI will expire and Palmer will be back to where he was before his "announcement" of the SCRI and Parallon deal.  Sorry to be so pessimistic, but if all the details really had been finalized back with the big announcement, then Palmer would have this puppy under construction already.  I really do hope I am wrong, but I have seen these things happen enough times in the past to think that Palmer has all his ducks in a row.  

 

Maybe Eakin or Giarratana can see some opportunity in Palmer's delays.  

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

I would much rather be wrong and this thing ends up getting built, but it has been delayed for nine years... and the contract with Parallon and SCRI is nothing more than a letter of intent.  If Palmer can't get financing on that, then he's got bigger problems than we all know about.  Here's the thing that (looking back) is very curious: Look back at the announcement of the project earlier this year... and all we saw on the website and articles was just a copy of the contract and recycled, photoshopped renderings of the two buildings.  Then we haven't seen any comparable contract on the website for the Intercontinental Hotel when that "contract" was announced.  And there hasn't been any movement or specifics from Palmer on how the buildings would sit at the site... and (don't overlook this salient fact) Palmer is a guy who loves the big announcement. So don't you think if he had a contract and updated plans for the WES that he would have posted them already?   I am thinking that there are several things going on behind the scenes... first HCA is having a time dealing with healthcare reform... and then they are also being pulled toward the One City project.  I think WES will not be built anytime soon... their LOI will expire and Palmer will be back to where he was before his "announcement" of the SCRI and Parallon deal.  Sorry to be so pessimistic, but if all the details really had been finalized back with the big announcement, then Palmer would have this puppy under construction already.  I really do hope I am wrong, but I have seen these things happen enough times in the past to think that Palmer has all his ducks in a row.  

 

Maybe Eakin or Giarratana can see some opportunity in Palmer's delays.  

 

 

Unbelievably I agree with ML again! Wow! I remember this announcement back in 2001? Maybe earlier and I remember the first rendering looked like two Las Vegas hotels. We have seen no update since this announcement. ONE City would make more sense for this project anyway. There, they would be in the middle of the hospital and healthcare district, not up on West End. ONE City would also greatly energize the Charlotte Road corridor. I would rather have an area of shopping in that area on West End.

[samsonh]

... first HCA is having a time dealing with healthcare reform... and then they are also being pulled toward the One City project.

 

 

You cannot just say things and have them be true. If reality doesn't meet your worldview you should reevaluate.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-16/hca-jumps-after-preliminary-earnings-top-estimates.html

[MLBrumby]

Worldview?   More like experience.  The vast bulk of my billable hours comes from the healthcare industry.  I have been interim CEO for several very large HC organizations over the past 10 years, and I know what they are going through now. If you have been reading the news, you would know that there is a tremendous amount of uncertainty in this industry, mostly caused directly by the "Affordable Care Act" (Obama even admitted certain parts are not ready. They never will be ready).  Regarding the link... Someone should explain to you the difference between quarterly (short-term) reports and strategic visions (long-term).  It's no surprise that HCA and other large entities are doing well right now... as they are reaping (in advance) as much cash as they can before the spigot turns.  I was with my friend Bill Gracy (CEO of Blue Cross Blue Shield of TN) last week when he said that costs are about to explode... and companies are trying to make up for that NOW!  That said, the most immediate uncertainty for HCA is what to do with the cash it is earning right now, and (if they are like most other large players) they will use an enormous amount of their capital to purchase their competitors and "grab" as much of new markets as possible.  You may notice that actual hospital construction has slowed tremendously (because those are long term commitments).  So just saying something to try to make it happen is not my stock in trade... it's what I know.