New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[MidTenn1]

A couple of other bombs that will drop;

The proposed bridge over the Cumberland connecting Donelson Pike to the East Bank for no apparent reason. I'm guessing it may be up to $50 million.

The Performing Arts Center which would replace the current one under the James K. Polk State Office Building downtown which by some reports the State wants to lease the property with the expectation the building (and the Performing Arts Center) would be demolished. Mayor Cooper has already publicly announced he would like to build a new one which, per my research, could cost possibly $300 million up to $500 million.

Edited October 28, 2022 by MidTenn1

[PaulChinetti]

29 minutes ago, lmc123 said:

Not sure if this is correct since the existing lease requires parking

Good point. 

Seems like the existing lease would be completely replaced though the way I read it. Since everything is getting redone.

[PruneTracy]

2 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

I'm not a Cooper fan by any means. But he definitely got a better deal on the MLS stadium. So I tend to trust him when it comes to deals, he sticks to his guns. 

The biggest flaw with the MLS stadium deal in retrospect is that we are now going to have two brand-new stadiums with the associated construction/maintenance costs when we could have had one designed from the ground up to accommodate both football and soccer.

[nashvylle]

1 minute ago, PruneTracy said:

The biggest flaw with the MLS stadium deal in retrospect is that we are now going to have two brand-new stadiums with the associated construction/maintenance costs when we could have had one designed from the ground up to accommodate both football and soccer.

MLS would not have given Nashville a bid. Atlanta is the exception to the expansion franchises, as well as Charlotte, but only because Charlotte paid $325MM!!! for an expansion fee. 

MLS turned down Minnesota to share the stadium with USBank (Vikings). 

[samsonh]

27 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

 

So since 50% sales tax is on the entire 130 acres, including private development, it's true that the $2.1BN number does not cover stadium village infrastructure and 2,000 parking spaces, but the 50% sales tax, which is being used to pay down interest stadium revenue bonds, will come from the stadium village AND the private development. What the interest expense is and what the projected sales tax collections will be is to be determined, but it's not accurate to say that the stadium village is the only source of sales tax collections. 

I didn't say the stadium village was the only source. There are a variety of points to be made here: We do not know how many hundreds of millions of required expense are not covered in the 2.1 billion figure. The mayor's office has not been direct on this, despite the fact these are required expenses.  Without spending hundreds of millions more there will be no source of revenue to fund the stadium. How long will 130 acres of development take to occur? When the Sounds stadium was built it was supposed to have the Ballpark Village built to pay down the TIF used to build it. That building is just now under construction. Fortunately for the Sounds stadium the TIF district took off anyway and property values have done really well the past few years, plus the city was able to refinance TIF loans cheaply with Regions. 

 

Finally the biggest point: Once developed the 130 acres will require city services like any other area. But much of the revenue to pay for these services will be going towards the stadium. Effectively the rest of the Davidson County is subsidizing this area, and therefore subsidizing the stadium. 

[lmc123]

18 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Good point. 

Seems like the existing lease would be completely replaced though the way I read it. Since everything is getting redone.

It absolutely will but I think the Titans are still proposing at least 2,000 parking spaces plus some for players/team personnel. 

In the new East Bank Vision plan on page 103 it says: "Stadium parking should be distributed as evenly as possible throughout the neighborhood in underground parking structures. However, the East Bank’s new urban street grid and connected multimodal transportation networks will allow stadium-goers to get to the East Bank in modes of transportation that do not require parking garages."

[nashvylle]

51 minutes ago, samsonh said:

I didn't say the stadium village was the only source. There are a variety of points to be made here: We do not know how many hundreds of millions of required expense are not covered in the 2.1 billion figure. The mayor's office has not been direct on this, despite the fact these are required expenses.  Without spending hundreds of millions more there will be no source of revenue to fund the stadium. How long will 130 acres of development take to occur? When the Sounds stadium was built it was supposed to have the Ballpark Village built to pay down the TIF used to build it. That building is just now under construction. Fortunately for the Sounds stadium the TIF district took off anyway and property values have done really well the past few years, plus the city was able to refinance TIF loans cheaply with Regions. 

Ok, you stated "But that infrastructure is required for the city to receive sales tax to pay for the stadium. That is my point." I assumed that to mean you thought all of the sales tax would only come from the stadium village (my bad), which we agree it won't.

The 130 acres will be but out over time, and no one is expecting it to all be built right away. The sounds stadium unwisely relied on one development to pay off debt (albeit a much smaller debt), and did not have the 1% hotel/motel tax across Davidson County nor $500MM from the state. Are the Titans ownership covering interest shortfalls during the time the 130 acres are developed? 

51 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Finally the biggest point: Once developed the 130 acres will require city services like any other area. But much of the revenue to pay for these services will be going towards the stadium. Effectively the rest of the Davidson County is subsidizing this area, and therefore subsidizing the stadium. 

As you know, the city is receiving essentially $0 in real estate taxes nor sales tax from the 130 acres currently, and will receive 100% of real estate taxes and 50% of sales taxes from the 130 acres. Will the cost of city services required for the 130 acres exceed the millions in annual real estate taxes and 50% sales tax collections on some of the most prime real estate in Davidson County? I wouldn't think so, so I don't think it's 100% accurate to say the rest of Davidson County is subsidizing the area/stadium, but call me out if this assumption is wrong. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by nashvylle

[donNdonelson2]

1 hour ago, MidTenn1 said:

 

The proposed bridge over the Cumberland connecting Donelson Pike to the East Bank for no apparent reason. I'm guessing it may be up to $50 million.

 

Donelson Pike is out by the airport.

[nashvylle]

1 hour ago, MidTenn1 said:

A couple of other bombs that will drop;

The proposed bridge over the Cumberland connecting Donelson Pike to the East Bank for no apparent reason. I'm guessing it may be up to $50 million.

The Performing Arts Center which would replace the current one under the James K. Polk State Office Building downtown which by some reports the State wants to lease the property with the expectation the building (and the Performing Arts Center) would be demolished. Mayor Cooper has already publicly announced he would like to build a new one which, per my research, could cost possibly $300 million up to $500 million.

Both of these projects are not related to the stadium nor their funding mechanisms, but within East Bank. 

I do know the proposed bridge has gotten pushback from CMs due to it potentially running through neighborhoods. The TPAC I am not sure if that will be done in the immediate future but over time. 

[PaulChinetti]

19 minutes ago, donNdonelson2 said:

Donelson Pike is out by the airport.

Dickerson Pike maybe?

[downtownresident]

15 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Dickerson Pike maybe?

Lebanon Pike. 

[PaulChinetti]

Connect it across the river to Eastland?

[downtownresident]

16 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Connect it across the river to Eastland?

The proposed bridge is an extension of 5th Ave S to the Fairfield Ave/Hermitage Ave intersection on the other side of the river. 

[Bos2Nash]

So I have gone back 11 damn pages to get up to speed with you people and have some thoughts haha!

1. I applaud Mendes' stance on needing to see these figure on how everything will come together. 
2. Someone mentioned the bridge across the Cumberland and while I don't think it will be supported, this city needs more ways to cross the damn river!! Currently you either need to be on an interstate or pass directly into downtown to get across the river, why?? This only promotes a bad ideology that the interstate should be used for short travel berths and only generates more gridlock within downtown. Having an outlet that lets East connect to south without having to go through downtown or get on the highway is a great thing. 
3. I quite like the overall concept of the stadium. It activates with its exterior on just about all sides. It doesn't look like an absolute spaceship. It will blend in with the eventual neighborhood a bit more. While it is an absolute LANDHOG, I think it works well. I have heard rumblings that Hastings will ultimately be the Architect of Record, but they won't really be lead designers on it. They were also the AoR on the MLS stadium, but Populous was the design lead. 
4. Parking will obviously be a big thing with the stadium, always will be. I have always questioned the approach to parking here ever since I saw a report that stated "the multi-modal road will allow people to park at Oracle to come events". First of all, Oracle wont be public parking. Secondly, the city/sports authority created a boondoogle with the MLS/Racetrack parking situation. The stadium is big enough that I believe the design should incorporate parking into it. Every other development - for the most part - has to include parking on site, why should the stadium be any different?
   1. That being said though, there will be plenty of space to park. I had a conversation with people involved and I believe I understood that the park that will stretch between the stadium and river will serve as the primary tailgate area, while also doubling as the primary stormwater for the East Bank. There are plenty of ways to design resilient plantings and areas to serve double uses like this.
5. The stadium will basically need the support of the village around it in order to pay for it. This will include Metro owned land and privately owned land. The image below is from a post I put on the board on APRIL 1ST asking about financing making sense. It is going to take quite a long time to build out around the stadium In the meantime, where does all the funding come from that the sales tax of this developed land will eventually pick up? The full potential of the village and the special district around it is alot further off than just 2027. 

This thing still has a long road ahead. If we break ground next year I will be shocked. The Council should take their sweet ass time working through the fine details of this proposal. 

[FrankNash]

^^^I've really missed your insight and knowledge lately.  Don't be a stranger Bos2Nash.

[Rick Dalton]

Shovels in the ground 

[Bos2Nash]

32 minutes ago, FrankNash said:

^^^I've really missed your insight and knowledge lately.  Don't be a stranger Bos2Nash.

Appreciate that. I've been underwater with work lately, so finally coming up for some air. You know you are behind when you have to go to page four of the forum to catch up haha

[donNdonelson2]

4 hours ago, downtownresident said:

The proposed bridge is an extension of 5th Ave S to the Fairfield Ave/Hermitage Ave intersection on the other side of the river. 

It’s actually S. 5th Street (5th Ave S is on the downtown side of the river).

[smeagolsfree]

Other than Nashville, mixed reactions coming in. This is besides the Top Golf comparison that I have already heard, this is a giant shopping mall.

 

[KJHburg]

On 10/28/2022 at 2:13 PM, nashvylle said:

MLS would not have given Nashville a bid. Atlanta is the exception to the expansion franchises, as well as Charlotte, but only because Charlotte paid $325MM!!! for an expansion fee. 

MLS turned down Minnesota to share the stadium with USBank (Vikings). 

One thing missing is that Carolina Panthers owner David Tepper owns the MLS Charlotte FC team as well so it made sense to have one stadium.  Same in Atlanta Mr Blank owns the NFL and MLS team.  Charlotte has the 2nd highest attendance in the entire MLS after only Atlanta.   They usually block off the upper level seating but did not do so for the inaugural game.  

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2022-mls-attendance/

[bnacincy]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

One thing missing is that Carolina Panthers owner David Tepper owns the MLS Charlotte FC team as well so it made sense to have one stadium.  Same in Atlanta Mr Blank owns the NFL and MLS team.  Charlotte has the 2nd highest attendance in the entire MLS after only Atlanta.   They usually block off the upper level seating but did not do so for the inaugural game.  

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2022-mls-attendance/

I'm hoping the new NFL stadium built here will be able to accomodate soccer.  I remember hearing that Nissan Stadium was built in such a way to accomadate soccer as well.

Edited October 30, 2022 by bnacincy
Content

[Rick Dalton]

Tepper is a joke

[KJHburg]

6 minutes ago, natethegreat said:

Tepper is a joke

Oh he has made a lot of mistakes but with the MLS team he is doing good.  He is a rookie owner and there is a steep learning curve. 

[Rick Dalton]

14 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Oh he has made a lot of mistakes but with the MLS team he is doing good.  He is a rookie owner and there is a steep learning curve. 

That’s good to hear, I’m just familiar with his NFL debacle 

[Melrose]

On 10/28/2022 at 2:25 PM, nashvylle said:

Both of these projects are not related to the stadium nor their funding mechanisms, but within East Bank. 

I do know the proposed bridge has gotten pushback from CMs due to it potentially running through neighborhoods. The TPAC I am not sure if that will be done in the immediate future but over time. 

Yeah, that ship has sailed insofar as trying to have it both ways on picking when the East Bank development “is” a part of the stadium deal and “is not” when it is inconvenient for the Mayor’s talking points.