New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[Rick Dalton]

If the titans leave Nashville, I leave Nashville. Losing an NFL team is the sign of a dying city like St. Louis. 

[Bos2Nash]

I'll state this again even though it has been stated many times before. The Titans (and NFL as a whole) benefit from Nashville just as much - if not more - than Nashville benefits from the Titans. The NFL owners need to vote and approve NFL team relocations, the NFL would be a special kind of stupid to allow such a relocation. 

[GregH]

18 minutes ago, natethegreat said:

If the titans leave Nashville, I leave Nashville. Losing an NFL team is the sign of a dying city like St. Louis. 

This kind of stuff is how teams are constantly able to screw municipalities on stadium deals.

[Luvemtall]

This stadium deal is more important to this city , that many of you are not understanding. And it’s not just because of the Titans. But I agree with natethegreat, losing a NFL team is a bad sign for any city. Correct me if I’m wrong , but I thought the 500 million from the state is only if a new stadium is built and it has to have a roof. And also isn’t all the land that Nissan sits on including the parking lots , owned by metro and governed by the sports authority? If so why would the Titans or anyone else for that matter, want to invest their money into something they don’t own. A lot of people are caught up with numbers on this deal, and understandably numbers mean something to some. But without this new stadium, Nashville will never see a Super Bowl, wrestlemania etc. all big  PR events that definitely benefit the city. If a special tax district is setup like the area for the MCC and it offsets the obligation of Metro and taxpayers that’s a plus. All I’m saying is that there’s more to this then just football, and the city will be better in the long run. 

[donNdonelson2]

I’ve said it before and I say it again. They need us more than we need them. We needn’t let the wealthy owners of an NFL team continue to be major benefactors of Nashville’s taxpayers. Work out a deal that is reasonable for all parties, or let them take their ball and go, if they think that is better for them!

[Luvemtall]

What about all the incentives and pilot programs etc that every major company gets to relocate or expand here. Aren’t they then the same as a billionaire NFL owner? It all comes from taxpayers money, one way or the other .  That’s what I’m trying to say , stop thinking it’s just the Titans or the NFL , it’s business. Think of how many jobs would be gone if they left , not just the team .

[Rick Dalton]

23 minutes ago, GregH said:

This kind of stuff is how teams are constantly able to screw municipalities on stadium deals.

How are you getting screwed by a tourism tax?

[Bos2Nash]

You mean like the Wrestlmania that we hosted earlier this year in the Nissan Stadium? The only events that Nissan hasn't hosted is a Super Bowl and the Final Four. The other events are ones we have already hosted. We have beleagered at length how the Super Bowl does not bring nearly the dollar figures many make it out to be. It is essentially the US version of the Olympics and we have all seen how many cities want to host the Olympics. You are correct in the state's money is predicated on a new stadium and roof. It does not really make sense to build a multi-function facility without a roof these days. I referenced the state money as a way to lay out how the Titans can pick up to $700 million shortfall in construction costs. The special tax district you mention is the same one that is set up by the state. I heard rumors that they have no idea where that district is going and may reach as far as Five Points in East. The special tax district is also something the state is taking aim at in an effort to get Metro entities (I view MCC as a Metro entity because it does all business within Metro) to spend money to their liking. If the state wants the Titans to stay in Nashville so bad, maybe the State should put out a state referendum for the whole state to pay for the stadium. Rather than just taking $500 million dollars from Nashville residents/visitors, take it from the whole state. 

Nashville does not have an image problem and does not really need the exposure of a Super Bowl to play with the big boys. We need to build better buildings with better urbanism and fund of essential workers and schools in order to keep folks in the city to really let things prosper beyond the tourism markets. This effort for a Super Bowl is pathetic IMO because it doesn't bring good to the city. It just puts more cameras on us and brings more drunken tourists here. No middle-class person within the MSA can realistically afford a Super Bowl because of the costs of those tickets. Not to mention the giveaways we will have to do to get such an event. 

Getting a Super Bowl should not be the driving factor in getting a new, multi-function arena. If the new structure serves the urban community as a whole AND the financials make sense (which the new stadium does neither!!) then sure it can be an investment, but right now it is not checking either box and as such should not be supported.

[PaulChinetti]

13 minutes ago, donNdonelson2 said:

I’ve said it before and I say it again. They need us more than we need them. We needn’t let the wealthy owners of an NFL team continue to be major benefactors of Nashville’s taxpayers. Work out a deal that is reasonable for all parties, or let them take their ball and go, if they think that is better for them!

To a point. Then the other cities start calling with their deals and without the infighting. 

[Bos2Nash]

Glad @donNdonelson2and I are on the same page haha.

We have talked about he East Bank Vision Plan and how the stadium is so integral to that. Imagine a hypothetical scenario where the stadium as a whole goes away because the Titans have left (and Nashville subsequently sues them) and we have a complete carte blanche neighborhood where we don't have to accommodate a massive arena? Those possibilities are so endless.

[Luvemtall]

Ha, seems like your not a sports fan. I myself like football and sports in general, and take pride in the home team. It’s all good , we all have our passions and opinions. 

[SoundScan]

51 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

Glad @donNdonelson2and I are on the same page haha.

We have talked about he East Bank Vision Plan and how the stadium is so integral to that. Imagine a hypothetical scenario where the stadium as a whole goes away because the Titans have left (and Nashville subsequently sues them) and we have a complete carte blanche neighborhood where we don't have to accommodate a massive arena? Those possibilities are so endless.

Unfortunately, the more likely outcome is that the area does not get redeveloped at all, and sits in decay for decades as surface parking and empty overgrown lots. How's the Greer Stadium redevelopment going, nearly a decade since closing? They're on the third or fourth "vision" for redevelopment, yet still no funding. Every "Vision Plan" requires funding, and for something the size of the current stadium footprint, a massive amount of public funding. So you're against funding public projects until you're not it seems. Funding for stadium "no way", but definitely "carte blanche" for other private developers and interests for some dream of a new East Bank. 

[PaulChinetti]

5 minutes ago, SoundScan said:

How's the Greer Stadium redevelopment going, nearly a decade since closing? They're on the third or fourth "vision" for redevelopment, yet still no funding. Every "Vision Plan" requires funding, and for something the size of the current stadium footprint, a massive amount of public funding. So you're against funding public projects until you're not it seems. Funding for stadium "no way", but definitely "carte blanche" for other private developers and interests for some dream of a new East Bank. 

100% agree with you on that. So many visions and planning sessions. 

They just allocated 14 million to the project this year. Nearly 6 or 7 years after the Cloud Hill development fell through. 
 

[SoundScan]

1 minute ago, PaulChinetti said:

100% agree with you on that. So many visions and planning sessions. 

They just allocated 14 million to the project this year. Nearly 6 or 7 years after the Cloud Hill development fell through. 
 

And that $14M only covers the years of deferred maintenance and repairs to some stonework. None of the net-new work that's part of the "master plan" vision has been funded at all, and may never be.

Getting 18 layers of bureaucrats and politicians to agree on anything is difficult, and for large projects like a $2B+ stadium basically impossible. So for it to actually get this close and then throw it out because "well how about this other vision no one cares about and will never go anywhere" is simply letting perfect be the enemy of good.

Was the Nashville Arena (Bridgestone) expensive? Yes, the most expensive venue in Nashville history at the time. Do you consider is a success?

How about the current Nissan Stadium? The Convention Center?

[WebberThomas4]

Hopefully whoever negotiated the current lease for metro is no longer around. The language seems very ambiguous and open to interpretation.
 

Is there a comparison chart that shows:

- Cost for metro to renovate Nissan stadium (use the Dolphins stadium as the standard and take out all of the goofy stuff like songwriters lounge) vs. cost to metro to build a new stadium with Titans and state money

- How metro would fund renovation vs. new stadium

- ongoing maintenance cost - renovation vs new stadium and who is responsible for what

 

 

[Rick Dalton]

2 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

Glad @donNdonelson2and I are on the same page haha.

We have talked about he East Bank Vision Plan and how the stadium is so integral to that. Imagine a hypothetical scenario where the stadium as a whole goes away because the Titans have left (and Nashville subsequently sues them) and we have a complete carte blanche neighborhood where we don't have to accommodate a massive arena? Those possibilities are so endless.

Lmao this pretty naive. It would continue, as it is today, to be a barren wasteland. The only foot traffic being the homeless. It’s been a wasteland for all eternity, why would that suddenly change by the biggest draw in the area leaving?

[FrankNash]

^^^Why aren't more people concerned about the out-of-town owners paying more?  I just don't understand.  They want to be in this market more than any other city.  

[PaulChinetti]

47 minutes ago, FrankNash said:

^^^Why aren't more people concerned about the out-of-town owners paying more?  I just don't understand.  They want to be in this market more than any other city.  

Are you talking about the Adams'? From what I understand they are contributing $700 million. 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-richest-owners-net-worth-ranked/ So if this is accurate, that's nearly half her net worth. 

[FrankNash]

^^^Then they must be in the wrong  business if we are expected to pay for their brick and mortar,

[smeagolsfree]

Again, just another way to piss off the state and encourage more interference from the stat if this is not passed. If you think the state will not take over the sports authority now, then this will be the straw that will break the camel's back if it is not approved. The state will force a deal up Metro's rear end the way things are going in the legislature. Remember the state wants a deal and has 500 million on the line as well.

[tragenvol]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Again, just another way to piss off the state and encourage more interference from the stat if this is not passed. If you think the state will not take over the sports authority now, then this will be the straw that will break the camel's back if it is not approved. The state will force a deal up Metro's rear end the way things are going in the legislature. Remember the state wants a deal and has 500 million on the line as well.

Exactly; an invitation for more local meddling and retribution...uh I mean administrative oversight from the state.  When super majorities don't have to worry about fixing budgets, their hands are free to plot and scheme.

[chc3]

19 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by chc3

[Bos2Nash]

17 hours ago, SoundScan said:

Getting 18 layers of bureaucrats and politicians to agree on anything is difficult, and for large projects like a $2B+ stadium basically impossible. So for it to actually get this close and then throw it out because "well how about this other vision no one cares about and will never go anywhere" is simply letting perfect be the enemy of good.

Was the Nashville Arena (Bridgestone) expensive? Yes, the most expensive venue in Nashville history at the time. Do you consider is a success?

How about the current Nissan Stadium? The Convention Center?

The only "good" coming out of the current deal is the PR communications that "this lease is better than the old one". The memo does a pretty good outlining that there is still significant burden placed on Davidson County taxpayers. Clearly you and natethegreat missed the important word "hypothetical" in my statement about the stadium going away. But to expand on both of your comments, I don't think it would remain a wasteland. The land around the stadium is not valuable because of the stadium. It is valuable because of Nashville and its access to the Cumberland. Oracle did not buy their land because its adjacency to Nissan Stadium, they bought it because what Nashville offers. The master developer RFP is being prepared and the developers are already circling to get their hands on that agreement to create the next Gulch or Nashville Yards. 

To be clear - because certain folks clearly aren't understand nuance - if the information is actually supplied and the multi-function arena checks the boxes of financial and urban sense then I am completely in favor of the multi-function arena. Unfortunately this plan just does not do it. It was rushed at the beginning due to the World Cup and I believe that some folks believe they went too far down the rabbit hole to turn back and re-evaluate what is really important for the multi-function arena.

18 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Ha, seems like your not a sports fan. I myself like football and sports in general, and take pride in the home team. It’s all good , we all have our passions and opinions. 

I presume you are talking to me in reference to a sports fan. I would argue I am a bigger sports fan than most people on this board with interests in many sports beyond just football. I also don't attack people because I can lay out coherent arguments that people can only counter by attacking me. 

[Rick Dalton]

Mendes is just posturing for his mayoral run. It will pass. Self-serving

[Luvemtall]

16 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

I presume you are talking to me in reference to a sports fan. I would argue I am a bigger sports fan than most people on this board with interests in many sports beyond just football. I also don't attack people because I can lay out coherent arguments that people can only counter by attacking me. 

Whoa , sorry bout that. I definitely wasn’t attacking you or anyone else, we are all adults just having a conversation. My post was just a jest, not meant in any negative or demeaning way. I value your opinion and look forward to your insight on many topics. Please accept my apology.