New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[Deangelo]

On 10/29/2022 at 3:57 PM, smeagolsfree said:

Other than Nashville, mixed reactions coming in. This is besides the Top Golf comparison that I have already heard, this is a giant shopping mall.

 

Both stadiums look good, Buffalo is going to build a nice modern uncovered stadium which I think their fans will enjoy. Nashville is going to build a domed stadium that offers great views for fans watching the game and that can host the super bowl, ncaa final four and other events !!!

Edited October 30, 2022 by High Rise Lover

[Sean blackdog]

Here we go. 

[glamdring269]

4 hours ago, Sean blackdog said:

Here we go. 

Yeah but where’s the parking?!

[Sean blackdog]

1 hour ago, glamdring269 said:

Yeah but where’s the parking?!

[nashscan]

4 hours ago, glamdring269 said:

Yeah but where’s the parking?!

Park at Geodis and shuttle over, duh.  

[Luvemtall]

9 hours ago, glamdring269 said:

Yeah but where’s the parking?!

You see all them new buildings surrounding the new stadium? I would bet that they all have some form of structured parking. Either underground or above or both, plus probably some stand alone parking garages. 

[smeagolsfree]

4 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

You see all them new buildings surrounding the new stadium? I would bet that they all have some form of structured parking. Either underground or above or both, plus probably some stand alone parking garages. 

But they have to be built and the old stadium will still be there for a while being torn down. after the new one is built. But maybe not, there may be a timeline when they get to a certain point. who knows.

I will bet this is the final plan as this is too close to construction start, they have to put this out for a bid soon. Don't count on any new renderings no matter what the Titans organization says unless they have more waiting in the wings to judge the reaction this one got.

[Melrose]

The full VSG study on the purported cost to renovate Nissan Stadium is out:

https://www.nashville.gov/sites/default/files/2022-11/Venue-Solutions-Group-Report-10.31.22.pdf?ct=1667310341

Digging in on the details, but this guiding statement stands out right away :

"In our estimate, we have tried to capture the costs needed to a) renovate and update the facility to keep it running for another 20 years, b) brining up to NFL standards, and c) provide new features to make the facility competitive for hosting major events and making it the “go-to” spot overlooking downtown Nashville."  

Everyone can debate what the current Nissan Stadium lease means when it requires  "a modern, first class, open air, stadium designed primarily for football, with a grass playing surface, to be located on the Stadium Site,"  but the Nissan Stadium Lease definitely does NOT obligate the City to "provide new features to make the facility competitive for hosting major events and making it the “go-to” spot overlooking downtown Nashville." Certainly some folks may think the City should do this with a renovation,  and that's a completely fine opinion, but it looks like this $1.8 Billion "obligated renovation" estimate very well includes costs to renovate Nissan Stadium over and above what is obligated. So just for the purposes of the argument that "Well, it's gonna cost the same to do the obligated renovation versus build a new stadium"  that argument looks more complicated because the actual "obligated renovation cost" (and not the dream renovation cost to make it Super Bowl ready)  appears likely to be something less.   

 

[Archibum]

On 10/28/2022 at 6:16 PM, Bos2Nash said:

So I have gone back 11 damn pages to get up to speed with you people and have some thoughts haha!

1. I applaud Mendes' stance on needing to see these figure on how everything will come together. 
2. Someone mentioned the bridge across the Cumberland and while I don't think it will be supported, this city needs more ways to cross the damn river!! Currently you either need to be on an interstate or pass directly into downtown to get across the river, why?? This only promotes a bad ideology that the interstate should be used for short travel berths and only generates more gridlock within downtown. Having an outlet that lets East connect to south without having to go through downtown or get on the highway is a great thing. 
3. I quite like the overall concept of the stadium. It activates with its exterior on just about all sides. It doesn't look like an absolute spaceship. It will blend in with the eventual neighborhood a bit more. While it is an absolute LANDHOG, I think it works well. I have heard rumblings that Hastings will ultimately be the Architect of Record, but they won't really be lead designers on it. They were also the AoR on the MLS stadium, but Populous was the design lead. 
4. Parking will obviously be a big thing with the stadium, always will be. I have always questioned the approach to parking here ever since I saw a report that stated "the multi-modal road will allow people to park at Oracle to come events". First of all, Oracle wont be public parking. Secondly, the city/sports authority created a boondoogle with the MLS/Racetrack parking situation. The stadium is big enough that I believe the design should incorporate parking into it. Every other development - for the most part - has to include parking on site, why should the stadium be any different?
   1. That being said though, there will be plenty of space to park. I had a conversation with people involved and I believe I understood that the park that will stretch between the stadium and river will serve as the primary tailgate area, while also doubling as the primary stormwater for the East Bank. There are plenty of ways to design resilient plantings and areas to serve double uses like this.
5. The stadium will basically need the support of the village around it in order to pay for it. This will include Metro owned land and privately owned land. The image below is from a post I put on the board on APRIL 1ST asking about financing making sense. It is going to take quite a long time to build out around the stadium In the meantime, where does all the funding come from that the sales tax of this developed land will eventually pick up? The full potential of the village and the special district around it is alot further off than just 2027. 

This thing still has a long road ahead. If we break ground next year I will be shocked. The Council should take their sweet ass time working through the fine details of this proposal. 

One small correction: Hastings and Populous were both design leads on Geodis. Hastings was also AOR. Gotta give credit to the local designers when it's due

[markhollin]

Just a cursory look at the 98 page report shows a rendering and some diagrams of potential upgrades for Nissan Stadium.  The report goes into a lot of detail (with many photos) of damage and decay within the stadium infrastructure. Perhaps I'll be able to dig into it further later today.


 

[bigeasy]

On 10/28/2022 at 3:35 PM, downtownresident said:

The proposed bridge is an extension of 5th Ave S to the Fairfield Ave/Hermitage Ave intersection on the other side of the river. 

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/metro-applies-for-federal-grant-to-help-redesign-east-bank-project-including-potential-new-bridge

[PaulChinetti]

13 hours ago, glamdring269 said:

Yeah but where’s the parking?!

To give the Titans credit, if this happens, they know it's going to be a pain during construction and then demo of the old stadium.

The president of the Titans (on 102.5) said there would be lots of coordination between all the current lots, lots of free shuttles, and anything else that they could do to help allieviate the pain of having less/no parking for a period of time. 

The other thing he said, that with them want the stadium to be more of a "festival atmosphere" that the plan/hope would be that instead of the majority of people getting to the stadium right before the game starts, that with all the new in stadium and surrounding amenities that people will arrive more spread out and through many different means. He called it "the front door approach", sounded like something that So-Fi does, I hadn't heard of it before. 

 

[MidTenn1]

3 hours ago, bigeasy said:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/metro-applies-for-federal-grant-to-help-redesign-east-bank-project-including-potential-new-bridge

$100,000,000!!!!!    

Sounds like the grant is for a study which is absolutely needed. However, I doubt the state or Feds will contribute any funds as the bridge will only serve city roads. I'm glad the city is indeed doing a study and will presumably apply science and math* to the decision-making process in building a better city. As a career Traffic Engineer, I can think of a lot of other traffic flow improvement options that need to be studied and evaluated to determine whether or not you can get the expected traffic flow benefits for a lot less cost.

 

*Science and math; that hard stuff we had to study in Junior High.

[lmc123]

On 11/1/2022 at 10:05 AM, Melrose said:

The full VSG study on the purported cost to renovate Nissan Stadium is out:

https://www.nashville.gov/sites/default/files/2022-11/Venue-Solutions-Group-Report-10.31.22.pdf?ct=1667310341

Digging in on the details, but this guiding statement stands out right away :

"In our estimate, we have tried to capture the costs needed to a) renovate and update the facility to keep it running for another 20 years, b) brining up to NFL standards, and c) provide new features to make the facility competitive for hosting major events and making it the “go-to” spot overlooking downtown Nashville."  

Everyone can debate what the current Nissan Stadium lease means when it requires  "a modern, first class, open air, stadium designed primarily for football, with a grass playing surface, to be located on the Stadium Site,"  but the Nissan Stadium Lease definitely does NOT obligate the City to "provide new features to make the facility competitive for hosting major events and making it the “go-to” spot overlooking downtown Nashville." Certainly some folks may think the City should do this with a renovation,  and that's a completely fine opinion, but it looks like this $1.8 Billion "obligated renovation" estimate very well includes costs to renovate Nissan Stadium over and above what is obligated. So just for the purposes of the argument that "Well, it's gonna cost the same to do the obligated renovation versus build a new stadium"  that argument looks more complicated because the actual "obligated renovation cost" (and not the dream renovation cost to make it Super Bowl ready)  appears likely to be something less.   

 

Lmao not surprising. New enclosed stadium still the best option for Metro's obligation. 

[nashvylle]

21 minutes ago, lmc123 said:

Lmao not surprising. New enclosed stadium still the best option for Metro's obligation. 

If you want Titans to leave Nashville, the cost out of Metro's general fund will be $32MM for unpaid capital expenses + $30MM in original, remaining general obligation bonds + cost to develop metro owned land. 
If you want Nissan Stadium to just be upgraded, Titans now have three studies which show metro's general fund's obligation as $1BN+... and no one but a judge will give final verdict on that number if it went to litigation... 

If you want a new stadium, it will be 50% of future tax sales tax revenue from a district currently producing $0 plus state bonds.

Since metro will not sell metro owned land (whether Titans have new stadium, renovate, or leave), the cost for the stadium village and anything on metro land will come from general obligation bonds. The 2K parking spaces will also be a cost to metro whether they renovate or have a new stadium because even with a renovation, I imagine metro will want to develop the land currently on parking lots. 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by nashvylle

[lmc123]

46 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

If you want Titans to leave Nashville, the cost out of Metro's general fund will be $32MM for unpaid capital expenses + $30MM in original, remaining general obligation bonds + cost to develop metro owned land. 
If you want Nissan Stadium to just be upgraded, Titans now have three studies which show metro's general fund's obligation as $1BN+... and no one but a judge will give final verdict on that number if it went to litigation... 

If you want a new stadium, it will be 50% of future tax sales tax revenue from a district currently producing $0 plus state bonds.

Since metro will not sell metro owned land (whether Titans have new stadium, renovate, or leave), the cost for the stadium village and anything on metro land will come from general obligation bonds. The 2K parking spaces will also be a cost to metro whether they renovate or have a new stadium because even with a renovation, I imagine metro will want to develop the land currently on parking lots. 

 

Option 1 is not in play since the Titans can unilaterally extend the lease which prompts Option 2 and 3 as our only true options.

For Option 2, the Sports Authority land/parking lots will not be developed since the Titans will just extend the lease. So we aren't actually reimagining the East Bank. 
Option 3, a new stadium, the State is kicking in $500M, Titans around $800M and Metro with the rest derived from sales tax, hotel motel tax and 50% of the sales tax from the newly developed district/East Bank. Yes, Metro will need to pay for infrastructure, but that's an obligation that can be spread over a few fiscal years as it is developed. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by lmc123

[markhollin]

More info on the material to be used in proposed stadium:

ETFE is a lightweight, polymer alternative to glass. The material is lighter, more elastic and more cost-effective. 

ETFE is similar to Teflon, but thinner and more transparent. Because of its light weight, a roof made of ETFE needs less support and is therefore cheaper to construct, according to a Sports Business Journal article.

A challenge to working with ETFE can be keeping out ultraviolet rays, however, designers use various techniques to work around it such as fritting — which includes applying an ink to the inside surface to deter light.

The first NFL stadium to incorporate the material was the Minnesota Vikings’ U.S. Bank Stadium, which opened in 2016. Designing an ETFE roof rather than a retractable roof saved the Vikings around $100 million, according to an architect for the project, and also made it considerably lighter.

Mercedes Benz Stadium opened and debuted the material on its roof in 2017, using a layered approach. 

In 2020, the Las Vegas Raiders’ Allegiant Stadium and Los Angeles Rams’ Sofi Stadium followed. The latter used the material to make a canopy style.

The roof for a new Titans stadium would look closer to that of Allegiant Stadium — which cost a total of $1.9 billion to build — than Mercedes Benz Stadium, said a representative of the team.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/11/02/tennessee-titans-new-stadium-dome-etfe.html

[Melrose]

19 hours ago, nashvylle said:

If you want Nissan Stadium to just be upgraded, Titans now have three studies which show metro's general fund's obligation as $1BN+

This is just not true and it is irresponsible to claim it.  

[nashvylle]

10 minutes ago, Melrose said:

This is just not true and it is irresponsible to claim it.  

If it's not true, then explain why. 

[markhollin]

The ordinance to bump the city’s hotel tax 1 percent and direct the revenue toward a new stadium, passed on first reading at Tuesday night's Metro Council meeting . The council’s Budget and Finance Committee officially deferred the resolution regarding the pre-lease terms sheet and a request for a quote on stadium-related construction costs. It will come up ahead of the Dec. 1st Metro Council meeting.
 

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/politics/metro/metro-council-sets-new-timeline-for-stadium-negotiations/article_a874deda-7dc6-5ca5-8f0c-f41a553bcaee.html

[Melrose]

4 hours ago, nashvylle said:

If it's not true, then explain why. 

Let's do this once again.  There is the 2017 VSG study,  which came before the new stadium scam was conceived, and thus is the most honest assessment of renovation needs.  It said $300 Million .  From there you have the Titans' 2021 PROPOSAL for their preferred renovation stating it would cost $1.8 Billion.  And then you have the latest VSG report,  which many smart people are pointing out, is not an actual renovation need assessment, but rather is just a review of the Titans' proposal.  Here's a thread going further on this:

https://twitter.com/jc_bradbury/status/1587798333913006082?s=20&t=jR254DU8m__ex7VkiTHedg

Again the Titans and you can certainly believe a new stadium is preferred over a renovation,   but saying it is preferred because it has been "shown" that an obligated renovation (not the Titans' platinum edition proposal will definitely cost $1.8 Billion or even $1+ Billion) and thus that is very close in cost to the new stadium's supposed cost (which does not include future upkeep costs, infrastructure, etc)  is not true.

[Rick Dalton]

The bachelorettes paying for a healthy portion of The House That Derrick Henry Built is music to my ears 

[Melrose]

1 hour ago, natethegreat said:

The bachelorettes paying for a healthy portion of The House That Derrick Henry Built is music to my ears 

But, if the East Bank is Nashville's "next great neighborhood" or neighborhoods, then that would mean the residents there will be paying the healthy portion.  If the bachelorettes are paying,  that means the East Bank is just going to be an extension of lower Broadway. 

Funny how these pro- new stadium arguments seem to keep getting in the way of themselves...

[markhollin]

15 minutes ago, Melrose said:

But, if the East Bank is Nashville's "next great neighborhood" or neighborhoods, then that would mean the residents there will be paying the healthy portion.  If the bachelorettes are paying,  that means the East Bank is just going to be an extension of lower Broadway. 

Funny how these pro- new stadium arguments seem to keep getting in the way of themselves...

The 1% hotel tax is for EVERY hotel in Davidson County. There is just 1 hotel in the East Bank footprint currently.  Perhaps a handful more will be built.  But the lion's share of that hospitality tax money will be coming from hotels/motels everywhere else in the city. 

[Melrose]

13 minutes ago, markhollin said:

The 1% hotel tax is for EVERY hotel in Davidson County. There is just 1 hotel in the East Bank footprint currently.  Perhaps a handful more will be built.  But the lion's share of that hospitality tax money will be coming from hotels/motels everywhere else in the city. 

I was referring to sales tax portion.