Davidson Southeast: Antioch, Century Farms, East of Brentwood

[NashvilleTaylor]

Thanks Adam.

I saw onFriday when I had lunch at Sylvan Park. I am concerned that may end up being sold as well. They do not own the site, but it could happen.

I wouldn't mind if they did sell it.  That is a very ugly looking building/sign.  I've never tried it before haha maybe I should before I criticize it so harshly.  IMO there should be a small park green in between the two complexes.

[smeagolsfree]

I wouldn't mind if they did sell it.  That is a very ugly looking building/sign.  I've never tried it before haha maybe I should before I criticize it so harshly.  IMO there should be a small park green in between the two complexes.

The only reason I mention it, is that it is an old Nashville institution. It's OK and it would be missed by a lot of the locals in that area, especially the older crowd. A typical Meat and Three.

[smeagolsfree]

I wanted to get this out here too. I don't remember if anyone has posted anything about the Nashville Zoo, but the Zoo just raised 10 million and will be matched by Metro for another 10 million, for the 160 million dollar expansion.

 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2014/11/25/zoo_matches_metros_10m_investment_challenge

 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2014/7/10/plan_to_transform_zoo_carries_strong_potential

[Vrtigo]

It's more than a little bit ironic that the Zoo has no trouble raising $160 million and has people throwing money at it, yet when the city tries to raise that amount of money for a transit project that would help everybody...

 

Sorry, I should stop now rather than derail this thread with a rant of the caliber I'd like to spit out.

[nashwatcher]

Family Justice Center/ Police Precinct / One stop shop for many services at the old Carl Black Chevy dealership on Murfreesboro Rd near downtown

 

http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news/Mayor-Deans-Next-Budget-May-Include-Funding-For-Family-Justice-Center-283557581.html

[smeagolsfree]

Bristol project on 12South will be up to 222 units and four stories.

From the Post and will come off of paywall soon. No retail space with up to 30 spaces of public parking.

 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2014/11/26/12south_targeted_for_four_story_apartment_building

[samsonh]

That's a very big building for that spot. Also seems like they are really missing an opportunity by forgoing retail. Seems incredibly short sighted

[gannman]

Bristol project on 12South will be up to 222 units and four stories.

From the Post and will come off of paywall soon. No retail space with up to 30 spaces of public parking.

 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2014/11/26/12south_targeted_for_four_story_apartment_building

 

Here's the site plan

 

[Will]

That's a very big building for that spot. Also seems like they are really missing an opportunity by forgoing retail. Seems incredibly short sighted

It's possible that the developers are avoiding retail in order to placate the neighbors. Parking for retail is a hot topic in 12South, as has been reported recently in various media outlets, and there are some very vocal residents who go ballistic at any hint of new development.

[MLBrumby]

"The project is slated for 2214 12th Ave. S., currently home to Tabernacle Baptist Church; Bristol has the land under contract."  NBJ

 

Apparently, this includes the three small houses adjacent/north of the church sanctuary. According to the site plan, the building will extend from the second house south of Lawrence, and down to the driveway beside the strange little brick building with the raised entrance on 12th Avenue. Never have liked that building since its construction a few years back... looks like it should be either a chain Italian restaurant or a brothel in New Orleans. 

 

 

http://www.search.ask.com/maps?psv=&apn_dbr=ie_8.0.6001.19543&apn_dtid=%5EYYYYYY%5EYY%5EUS&itbv=12.15.0.167&p2=%5EB5N%5EYYYYYY%5EYY%5EUS&apn_ptnrs=%5EB5N&o=APN11068&gct=kwd&pf=V7&tpid=AVRV7&trgb=CR&pt=tb&apn_uid=F92C50C9-27BF-4069-86DF-395A8F3FD8E1&doi=2014-07-16&q=12th+avenue+south+and+linden+avenue%2C+nashville&tpr=10

Edited December 1, 2014 by MLBrumby

[bwithers1]

It's possible that the developers are avoiding retail in order to placate the neighbors. Parking for retail is a hot topic in 12South, as has been reported recently in various media outlets, and there are some very vocal residents who go ballistic at any hint of new development.

Very true.  Another aspect is that retail uses come with much larger parking requirements than straight residential developments. 

[samsonh]

I still find it strange that retail is not included. 12South is a retail and restaurant destination. That is why people move there. If we want truly mixed use neighborhoods we should encourage retail in buildings such as these. Just as it was included(quite successfully I might add) in the HG Hill project just down the street(although to some neighborhood opposition that had little basis in fact)

[FromParkAveToTN]

I still find it strange that retail is not included. 12South is a retail and restaurant destination. That is why people move there. If we want truly mixed use neighborhoods we should encourage retail in buildings such as these. Just as it was included(quite successfully I might add) in the HG Hill project just down the street(although to some neighborhood opposition that had little basis in fact)

I completely agree. we need a Fendi, Versace, Hugh Boss, and a Christian Louboutin shops there.

[bwithers1]

I still find it strange that retail is not included. 12South is a retail and restaurant destination. That is why people move there. If we want truly mixed use neighborhoods we should encourage retail in buildings such as these. Just as it was included(quite successfully I might add) in the HG Hill project just down the street(although to some neighborhood opposition that had little basis in fact)

12South isn't really a mixed-use neighborhood in the way that Germantown or the Gulch is.  It seems plausible that not everyone who moves to 12South does so seeking to live in a mixed-use neighborhood like Germantown.  If they wanted that, they would move to another neighborhood like downtown, Germantown or The Gulch.

 

And what about the residents who lived in 12South before it became such a destination?  Neighborhood groups, the Planning Commission, and certainly the Council Members need to listen to all residents, not just those who are recent arrivals.  Some of the established residents may like having a small selection of shops and restaurants on a few corners in the neighborhood, but may not be as receptive to large-scale developments dominating what was intentionally left as a narrow stretch of 12th Ave South.  It may even be the case that some of the individuals who are now moving to 12South may prefer a smaller-scale, more spread out selection of commercial options rather than a dense, continuous strip of mixed-use buildings all along 12th. 

 

On this board, we may "encourage" ground-floor retail by talking about it favorably, but unless we live there, we need to defer to the neighbors.  They are often capable of speaking for themselves about what they want.  In some cases, like what recently happened on Music Row, the residents indicated that they wanted more mixed use because they felt like they were being drowned out by apartment/condo/office buildings.  And the Planning Commission and the Council Member listened and revised a project to include some ground-floor retail.  Whereas 12South has plenty of restaurant/retail options, and so those residents could find the single-use multifamily residential nature of this project to be a welcome respite.  It's up to them.

 

This parcel is a bit of a gateway to the 12South neighborhood, so having a multifamily project here could provide an effective buffer between the commercial uses further south and the more traditionally structured residential character of most the rest of 12th Ave to the north.  This project can still provide great presence at the street level without having retail uses.  Even in Germantown not every project has ground-floor retail/restaurant uses spanning the length of their street frontages.  Mixed-use can be nice, but it need not be omnipresent to be effective. 

Edited December 1, 2014 by bwithers1

[Neigeville2]

...

 

This parcel is a bit of a gateway to the 12South neighborhood, so having a multifamily project here could provide an effective buffer between the commercial uses further south and the more traditionally structured residential character of most the rest of 12th Ave to the north.  ...

 

I don't mean this in a critical way but I find it odd when people refer to mid-to-late 20th century design, which is totally contrary to everything that came before for all of history, as "traditional".  High density mixed used development is traditional.  Actually that area, especially up by the projects where you see little kids having to cross a high-speed street about as wide as a football field, kind of epitomizes the worst of the 20th century experiment. 

[BnaBreaker]

...

 

This parcel is a bit of a gateway to the 12South neighborhood, so having a multifamily project here could provide an effective buffer between the commercial uses further south and the more traditionally structured residential character of most the rest of 12th Ave to the north.  ...

 

I don't mean this in a critical way but I find it odd when people refer to mid-to-late 20th century design, which is totally contrary to everything that came before for all of history, as "traditional".  High density mixed used development is traditional.  Actually that area, especially up by the projects where you see little kids having to cross a high-speed street about as wide as a football field, kind of epitomizes the worst of the 20th century experiment. 

 

Thank you!  Look, I can respect the urge to protect the wishes of the 'natives,' as it were, of neighborhoods like 12South to a point, but like the NIMBY's who clamored against the 16 story tower proposed for Green Hills, merely living in an area does not suddenly make one an urban planning expert.  There is NO REASON not to include ground-level retail along a major thoroughfare like 12th Avenue.  The reasons for not including it, are very weak in my opinion.  Sorry, but urban neighborhoods are meant to be mixed use to some degree.  That's how it works.  If the residents of 12South don't like that their neighborhood is maturing into a real walkable urban neighborhood, with real amenities to offer beyond a Dollar General and gas station, then there is still literally 99% of the Nashville metro area, and 98% of the city proper that fits their desire for a disjointed, suburban style, car dependent experience. 

 

It honestly makes me laugh seeing people talk about ground level retail as if it is some kind of scourge...as if it's taking over the city.  It probably makes up 1% of all retail in Nashville, at best.  12South, which is supposedly one of Nashville's premier urban neighborhoods, only has, what, probably seven restaurants and fifteen shops built in this fashion?  Seriously Nashville, if that is all it takes to spark debate about 'how much is too much,' then we should just end this little experiment with urban development right now, because even with all of this latest development, Nashville severely lags behind even many of it's peer cities in that regard.  Cities like Columbus, and Milwaukee, and Richmond, and Louisville would look at 12South and shrug their collective shoulders.  I don't mean to be harsh but 12South is still nothing more than a fledgling urban neighborhood right now, and as it continues to grow and mature there will naturally be some growing pains.  But I can tell you what won't fix the traffic and parking concerns that people have, and that answer IS NOT to stop putting ground level retail street fronting retail along the neighborhood's main thoroughfare. 

Edited December 2, 2014 by BnaBreaker

[bwithers1]

...

 

This parcel is a bit of a gateway to the 12South neighborhood, so having a multifamily project here could provide an effective buffer between the commercial uses further south and the more traditionally structured residential character of most the rest of 12th Ave to the north.  ...

 

I don't mean this in a critical way but I find it odd when people refer to mid-to-late 20th century design, which is totally contrary to everything that came before for all of history, as "traditional".  High density mixed used development is traditional.  Actually that area, especially up by the projects where you see little kids having to cross a high-speed street about as wide as a football field, kind of epitomizes the worst of the 20th century experiment. 

High-density mixed-use development is not "traditional" for the 12South area, which was a streetcar suburb, which, when it was originally platted and developed in the late 19th and early 20th Century, consisted of single-family homes, some duplexes, and mostly single-story or at least low-rise retail uses like corner grocery stores.  Even the historic retail buildings nearby at Douglas Corner are all or almost all single-story.  The mid-20th Century Urban Renewal stuff that came later may have had some bad designs, but it was an updated rendition of the mostly singe-family housing and mostly single-story business development that was already present in that particular area.

Edited December 2, 2014 by bwithers1

[12Mouth]

Thank you!  Look, I can respect the urge to protect the wishes of the 'natives,' as it were, of neighborhoods like 12South to a point, but like the NIMBY's who clamored against the 16 story tower proposed for Green Hills, merely living in an area does not suddenly make one an urban planning expert.  There is NO REASON not to include ground-level retail along a major thoroughfare like 12th Avenue.  The reasons for not including it, are very weak in my opinion.  Sorry, but urban neighborhoods are meant to be mixed use to some degree.  That's how it works.  If the residents of 12South don't like that their neighborhood is maturing into a real walkable urban neighborhood, with real amenities to offer beyond a Dollar General and gas station, then there is still literally 99% of the Nashville metro area, and 98% of the city proper that fits their desire for a disjointed, suburban style, car dependent experience. 

 

It honestly makes me laugh seeing people talk about ground level retail as if it is some kind of scourge...as if it's taking over the city.  It probably makes up 1% of all retail in Nashville, at best.  12South, which is supposedly one of Nashville's premier urban neighborhoods, only has, what, probably seven restaurants and fifteen shops built in this fashion?  Seriously Nashville, if that is all it takes to spark debate about 'how much is too much,' then we should just end this little experiment with urban development right now, because even with all of this latest development, Nashville severely lags behind even many of it's peer cities in that regard.  Cities like Columbus, and Milwaukee, and Richmond, and Louisville would look at 12South and shrug their collective shoulders.  I don't mean to be harsh but 12South is still nothing more than a fledgling urban neighborhood right now, and as it continues to grow and mature there will naturally be some growing pains.  But I can tell you what won't fix the traffic and parking concerns that people have, and that answer IS NOT to stop putting ground level retail street fronting retail along the neighborhood's main thoroughfare. 

 

Ok - to defend my neighborhood:

 

Yes, there are 5-10 very vocal residents who always come out loudly against all change, growth, and gentrification. For the most part, the neighbors that I interact with on a daily basis moved to the neighborhood because of the growth/restaurants/retail/etc.The Post article is still behind the paywall, so you might be reacting to something there that I can't see, but have we seen anything where 12South residents have said that they don't want retail here? As I understand it, back on 8th (I'm between 12th and 8th), Stonehenge and Lennar were begged to put retail in and both refused because it was too much of a hassle. The 12South Flats development was criticized (as I remember it) for initially submitting a much smaller project and then growing it to a size that some residents felt was out of scale. I know that there were also concerns about bringing in huge national chains (they obviously did an excellent job addressing this concern).

 

I am quite certain that there will be neighborhood concerns around the optics of this development (a historically black church pushed out of the neighborhood by a large developer building luxury apartments), as well as the size of it (which is significantly larger than anything else in the area). I just don't see the neighbors in any sort of majority being opposed to retail. I actually think that not having retail will be a pretty big miss.

[bwithers1]

Thanks for providing a local perspective as a neighborhood resident.  We need to remember that zoning is a political decision that is ultimately decided by the Metro Council, not by the Planning Department or the Planning Commission, and certainly not by posters to Urban Planet.  As such, property owners will tend to develop within their rights according to the zoning that is in place, which is what happened with the Hillsboro/Richard Jones tower, but they will need the support of the Council Member for zone changes, and will want the support of the Planning Commission and the Metro Council for zoning changes that require an amendment to the Community Plan.  Community support plays a crucial role in passing those kinds of planning changes. 

 

It appears that this particular parcel is outside of the existing Neighborhood Center zoning along 12th, and is currently zoned R8.  Therefore, it appears that a rezoning to allow a commercial use would require not just a zone change but also a land use policy amendment to permit the zone change.  The developers in question may or may not be interested in pursuing that involved of a zone change.  There may or may not be sufficient community support for a land use policy change to permit commercial uses, which, if the Planning Commission were to disapprove, the Council Member would need 27 votes to pass. CM Sondra Moore is the person with whom District 17 Constituents who want to push for ground-floor retail uses on this site should speak.

 

Looking at the proposed new land use policies for this area on the NashvilleNext site, it appears that the area of 12th from Kirkwood to Linden will remain Neighborhood Center; the area from Linden to Caldwell, where this parcel is located, is proposed to be T4RC Residential Corridor, which suggests that anything other than residential would be contrary to the land use policy; and the area from Caldwell to Argyle will be T4CM - Mixed Use Corridor.  My eyes could be tricking me because the maps are pretty small and I need new glasses

 

Again, I could be reading and interpreting the maps incorrectly.  But if my interpretation of the NashvilleNext maps is correct that commercial uses would not be permitted on this site according to the proposed NashvilleNext land use policies, then neighbors who want to change that outcome still have time to participate in the NashvilleNext sessions to amend those proposed land use policies to permit mixed-use development on that particular site.  The decision about whether to pursue and wait for that kind of a change or to proceed as-is with the residential-only zoning currently in place is ultimately up to the development team.

Edited December 2, 2014 by bwithers1

[smeagolsfree]

Looks like Sylvan Park Restaurant in Berry Hill may be doomed to the wrecking Ball. Location has been sold, according to the Tennessean.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2014/12/02/investor-buys-sylvan-park-restaurant-site-berry-hill/19779655/

[dmillsphoto]

Looks like Sylvan Park Restaurant in Berry Hill may be doomed to the wrecking Ball. Location has been sold, according to the Tennessean.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2014/12/02/investor-buys-sylvan-park-restaurant-site-berry-hill/19779655/

 

Looks like I'm 9 minutes late with the same link...

[Nash_12South]

I'm a newer 12 South resident and I agree with the posting about the 5-10 very vocal neighbors who oppose everything. It's keeping the newer residents from getting more involved.

I haven't seen any mention of the 11/15/14 12 South meeting where metro planning and metro parking presented their findings and plan for the Urban Design Overlay for 12 South.

Councilmembers Allen and Moore presided over it. It was extremely informative with a reported 60 or so attending.

It was so tightly run that no one really was allowed to comment (complain) out loud. Comments/questions were written on cards and submitted.

One thing I took from the presentations is that metro is not being too influenced by the anti-everything folks. The metro planning rep said no one would love the suggested overlay. It would impose tighter controls over what could be built and increase the required parking (by a little). Residents wouldn't get parking permits, but metro would build a new parking lot at the renovating Waverly Belmont school (for after school hours). The plan would allow a handful of residential lots directly behind the 10th side of the 12th businesses to be zoned for parking only.  An alley contains the commercial area on the Belmont side of 12th and this new zone would "mirror" that alley. I don't like any residential lots going for parking, but I can see the logic.

I'm new to the forum - so apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.

[dmillsphoto]

This is the place, and welcome to the forum, Nash_12South. 

[Nashville Cliff]

I lived in 12South back when they were still calling it Sunnyside or Waverly Belmont, back from 97-05.  Hard to believe how much it has changed.

[Neigeville2]

Looks like Sylvan Park Restaurant in Berry Hill may be doomed to the wrecking Ball. Location has been sold, according to the Tennessean.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2014/12/02/investor-buys-sylvan-park-restaurant-site-berry-hill/19779655/

 

I ate there once and it was nasty, so I'm fine with this.