Nashville Bits and Pieces

[smeagolsfree]

Happy Birthday older man than me, but not by much.

[markhollin]

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!  I am grateful for the community I have found here on Urban Planet Nashville, and in our Monthly Meet-Ups at Provence in the Downtown Library. I sure enjoy the friendships that have been fostered through our interactions. Am thankful to learn from others who have skill and passion when it comes to planning, architecture, design, infrastructure, etc. I also give thanks for living in a city of Nashville that is booming with construction, development, and growth---sure makes for intriguing discussions on the future of our metro area on many different levels.  :  ) 

[markhollin]

What do you think Tony Giarratana's next move will be?  Seeing that the SoBro Tower is basically finished and leasing begun, as well as 505 Church Street about halfway up and looking at a top-out around the latter half of February, it would seem that he may be looking towards his next big undertaking.

When he met with us about 18 months ago at one of our Meet-Ups, he mentioned that he still would like to have a major hotel as part of his inventory.  His attempts at procuring the Baptist lot on the NE corner of Demonbreun and 8th Ave. South for a Marriott fell through (that is the lot where the new massive Embassy Suites/Curio Hotel cluster is about to begin). And with the explosion of hotel development happening right now (38 projects totaling over 8,000 rooms within 2 miles of the city core are either underway or imminent), I think we may be seeing a slowdown on any further major hotel developments for the near future. 

The development on downtown housing is slowing down as well, waiting for some of the existing new projects (of which there are myriad) to begin to fill-in before many other new endeavors are announced. 

However, there is definitely a shortage in Class A office space in the CBD.  I believe a current stat I heard was only about 3% inventory is currently available.  And with over 2,000 new jobs being announced in just the past couple months from various corporate entities moving downtown into existing structures, what little is left is soon to be gone.  On the horizon we have the 8-story BWSC with 125,000 sq. ft. currently going up--but a lot of that space is already called-for. Eakin's 15-story, 285,000 sq. ft. building at corner of Demonbreun and 12th Ave. South is about to open, but is already over 80% leased. The 222 2nd Ave. South 25-story/391,000 sq. ft. structure is about halfway-up, but quite a bit of it's contents have already been called-for. Eakin also has plans for a 6-story, 180,000 sq. ft. structure facing Hermitage Ave. in the MDHA Trolley Car development.  And, of course, there is Matthews' approximately 30-story/425,000 sq. ft. tower as part of the 5th & Broadway complex.  No announcements have been made on possible primary tenants for the latter, but one would think it will become a very hot item as the construction finally gets underway next year.  On top of all that, the word is that Bridgestone and HCA underestimated how much space they would need in their new buildings, appearing to already be maxed-out and looking at further space downtown for each of their workforces. 

So, all that being said, it would seem that an office structure might be in Tony's future.  If so, where would he want to put it?  Will he be bold in scope and design?  Or do you think he'll pause for a while before making his next move?  He seems pretty ambitious over the past 15 years, moving quickly from one finished edifice onto the next, so I can't imagine him being tranquil for long.  

Thoughts?

[Canuck87]

1 hour ago, markhollin said:

So, all that being said, it would seem that an office structure might be in Tony's future.  If so, where would he want to put it?  Will he be bold in scope and design?  Or do you think he'll pause for a while before making his next move?  

Having never met the man, I am loath to guess at what he might be thinking. That being said, I believe he tipped his hand regarding his ultimate goal with the Signature Tower. Without a doubt, the Signature Tower would have been the dominant structure in the skyline and would have supplanted the AT&T building as the building that comes to mind when people think “Nashville.”

Even though 505 CST is a solid project, it certainly isn’t a game-changer in terms of design or impact on the skyline in the way the Signature Tower would have been. In fact, I don’t think any of Tony G’s projects to date will be especially noteworthy decades from now (This is not intended to downplay his work, as I fully appreciate everything he's done for the downtown).

I’m not saying he will revive the Signature Tower, just that he apparently has grand ambitions. I think we can expect one career-defining project before he’s done; the project to serve as his pièce de résistance and leave his lasting mark on the city.

As far as the type of project is concerned, I agree that an office tower makes the most sense at the moment. I have personally always wanted to see something tall constructed in the area to the West of the Library/Renaissance Hotel and to the East of the Lifeway Campus. I think a skyscraper in that vicinity would really benefit the skyline and would go a long way in extending the CBD towards the interstate. Plus, it might spur some much needed development in that area. Just my thoughts.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Canuck87

[fieldmarshaldj]

^I say go with building a massive mixed-use tower on the Hotel Tulane site at the top of the circle (between Polk/8th above Church). A nice 60-75 story bulkier Signature Tower. Break that 1,000-foot barrier.

[Flatrock]

Ruminations like this are fun. Mark, I agree with your logic. It seems to me offices and condo's. Since condo's can be tricky to finance, I'm loving a high-rise office-condo mixed use project... perhaps even an office-condo-hotel-retail mixed use concept. Consider Water Tower Place in Chicago's Magnificent Mile. 74 floors, 859' ... I've stayed at the Ritz Carlton there a number of times. Retail, hotel, condo's and offices. A concept similar, I believe, could work in Nashville - albeit at a different scale, perhaps.  Something like this could support a super high-rise. Imagine the 5th & Broadway development encapsulated into a single building, 60-70 floors tall.

[smeagolsfree]

I am sure he has his next project planned, but as to what it is, who knows. He has some prime real estate still and I would bet options on other site. He holds his cards close to his vest.

[titanhog]

2 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I am sure he has his next project planned, but as to what it is, who knows. He has some prime real estate still and I would bet options on other site. He holds his cards close to his vest.

What other parcels does he own?

[rookzie]

..Oh....and Happy Birthday, Mark, older than ALL of us put together.
-==-

[markhollin]

Thanks for the kind and un-kind B-Day wishes, everyone.  ; )  

Seriously, I appreciate the camaraderie that this group has fostered.  : )

[TNinVB]

I believe Tony also owns property at the roundabout next to the Westin. 

[titanhog]

Smeagols or anyone else "in the know."  Would love to get your "percentages" of whether or not these projects will break ground in 2017 (or at all):

1. 2nd Ave Partners (next to Seigenthaler Bridge)

2. 5th & Broadway

3. Buckingham Gulch tower

4. MDHA project near Rutledge Hill

5. Old Lifeway campus 

6. Old Mazda location (Endeavor?)

7. W Hotel

8. Embassy Suites downtown

9. Drury downtown

10. Demonbreun Hill project (where Off Broadway Shoes is located)

11. Tennessean site

12. Gulch pedestrian bridge

13. Hotel / Office towers - Broadway and 19th area

14. Tower where Noshville was located

15. Any BIG project you know of...but you're keeping it secret :-)

16. Lake Palmer "North Gulf" Surf Club and Tiki Bar

[markhollin]

^ ^ ^  Here are my 2 cents (or 2 % points):

1. 2nd Ave Partners (next to Seigenthaler Bridge): 25%

2. 5th & Broadway: 100%

3. Buckingham Gulch tower: 10%

4. MDHA project near Rutledge Hill: 10%

5. Old Lifeway campus: 75% (but Hyatt Regency element only to start). 

6. Old Mazda location (Endeavor?): 100%

7. W Hotel: 50%

8. Embassy Suites downtown: 100%

9. Drury downtown: 100%

10. Demonbreun Hill project (where Off Broadway Shoes is located): 0% (it will happen one day--just not starting anytime soon)

11. Tennessean site: 0% (there hasn't been a buyer yet as far as I'm aware)

12. Gulch pedestrian bridge: 25%

13. Hotel / Office towers - Broadway and 19th area: 25%

14. Tower where Noshville was located: 0% (this seems dead for now)

15. Any BIG project you know of...but you're keeping it secret :-)  

16. Lake Palmer "North Gulf" Surf Club and Tiki Bar:  I think he missed his chance to sell in this cycle.  Big, gaping, yawning 0%.

[titanhog]

Thanks Mark!  Appreciate that.

[smeagolsfree]

I normally do not give anything a 100% chance as anything can happen to screw it up. As time goes on, the percentage can go up or down depending on what is happening.

 

1. 2nd Ave Partners (next to Seigenthaler Bridge) 50%

2. 5th & Broadway 90%

3. Buckingham Gulch tower 50%

4. MDHA project near Rutledge Hill 60%

5. Old Lifeway campus  75% Long build out

6. Old Mazda location (Endeavor?) 85%

7. W Hotel 75%

8. Embassy Suites downtown 80%

9. Drury downtown 80%

10. Demonbreun Hill project (where Off Broadway Shoes is located) 40%

11. Tennessean site /no proposed project yet

12. Gulch pedestrian bridge 95%

13. Hotel / Office towers - Broadway and 19th area 50% They do own the land

14. Tower where Noshville was located 0 %. This guy is no developer.

15. Any BIG project you know of...but you're keeping it secret :-) Nothing

16. Lake Palmer "North Gulf" Surf Club and Tiki Bar /something will be built at some point, but unlikely it will be Pit digging Palmer.

[PaulChinetti]

I would definitely like to see another big signature like tower to add to the skyline. 

Something old school like the Met Life tower, it's 700' but could definitely be taller. 

https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/building/cayan-tower/464 this is crazy and different but now has obviously been done but I mean come on, that is pretty cool. 

Nice list with pictures.

https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/buildings

[fieldmarshaldj]

39 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/building/cayan-tower/464 this is crazy and different but now has obviously been done but I mean come on, that is pretty cool.

Hey, if you're gonna do that, go full screw and do the one they've abandoned in Chicago.

If the FAA complains about its height, tell 'em to suck it !

Edited November 28, 2016 by fieldmarshaldj

[PillowTalk4]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

I would definitely like to see another big signature like tower to add to the skyline. 

Something old school like the Met Life tower, it's 700' but could definitely be taller. 

https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/building/cayan-tower/464 this is crazy and different but now has obviously been done but I mean come on, that is pretty cool. 

Nice list with pictures.

https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/buildings

I drove from the Washington, DC metro area to Atlanta for the Thanksgiving Holiday and I tell you after passing through Charlotte and of course driving around Atlanta, I was thinking the entire time just how much Nashville needs an office building that is 60 to 70 stories tall.  If you're driving through Charlotte along I-85 you never go into the heart of the city which is about 4-5 miles away depending on where you are on I-85, but you see vistas of the skyline that are really impressive from that distance.  Their tallest building is the Bank of America Center which is 60 stories at 871 feet.  Atlanta's tallest building happens to be the Bank of America Plaza which is 55 stories at 1,023 feet (I guess the pyramid top really adds height).  Counter that with 505CST under construction in Nashville which will be 45 stories at 543 feet and you can see why our skyline while improved will still seem stunted.  Just think how Nashville's skyline would have been transformed if Signature Tower at 70 stories and 1,030 feet had been built instead of 505.  It would have been the tallest building in the southeast and I think it would have been the catalyst to start developers to thinking taller for Nashville overall.  

Paul, I like your style.  I too hope that if and when a developer decides to really go for it in Nashville in terms of height that they also go for it in design as well.  I'd still be happy with a Signature Tower style building because they are always classic, but I'd love to see something so different than anything else located in the U.S. or Canada.

[markhollin]

Nashville's progress as an international business hub:

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2016/11/28/going-global-nashville-s-progress-as-an.html

[Canuck87]

13 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Nashville's progress as an international business hub:

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2016/11/28/going-global-nashville-s-progress-as-an.html

Nashville has certainly come a long way in recent years, but if I were to pick one "key element" that's currently missing, it's the Transportation-system-not-excluding-cross-Atlantic-flights element.

Although Nashville scores relatively well in the other metrics listed by the author, the transportation/air-travel situation in Nashville puts it behind most regional cities, let alone "global cities." Hopefully, the expansion of BNA and the nMotion plan will change this.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Canuck87

[MLBrumby]

The Chairman of the Predators NHL team, Tom Cigarran, says the organization will open three more ice rinks in the metro. First will be west (Bellevue)... then "far north... almost Kentucky" (Sumner County?).... then south (Williamson?).  

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2016/11/28/predators-owner-eyes-four-locations-for-new-ice.html

 

[Canuck87]

Just now, MLBrumby said:

The Chairman of the Predators NHL team, Tom Cigarran, says the organization will open three more ice rinks in the metro. First will be west (Bellevue)... then "far north... almost Kentucky" (Sumner County?).... then south (Williamson?).  

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2016/11/28/predators-owner-eyes-four-locations-for-new-ice.html

 

Nothing makes my Canadian heart happier than the increased popularity of hockey in Middle Tennessee.

When I first arrived in Nashville in 1998, there was one ice surface open to the public in Nashville (at the Centennial Sportsplex). Since then, there has been another rink added at Centennial, two rinks opened Franklin at A-Game (though the status of that facility is now up in the air...), two rinks at the Ford Ice Center, and now this latest news. 

Three new rinks would mean almost a tenfold increase since the Predators arrived. Not too bad.

[wmaddbb2018]

6 hours ago, PillowTalk4 said:

I drove from the Washington, DC metro area to Atlanta for the Thanksgiving Holiday and I tell you after passing through Charlotte and of course driving around Atlanta, I was thinking the entire time just how much Nashville needs an office building that is 60 to 70 stories tall.  If you're driving through Charlotte along I-85 you never go into the heart of the city which is about 4-5 miles away depending on where you are on I-85, but you see vistas of the skyline that are really impressive from that distance.  Their tallest building is the Bank of America Center which is 60 stories at 871 feet.  Atlanta's tallest building happens to be the Bank of America Plaza which is 55 stories at 1,023 feet (I guess the pyramid top really adds height).  Counter that with 505CST under construction in Nashville which will be 45 stories at 543 feet and you can see why our skyline while improved will still seem stunted.  Just think how Nashville's skyline would have been transformed if Signature Tower at 70 stories and 1,030 feet had been built instead of 505.  It would have been the tallest building in the southeast and I think it would have been the catalyst to start developers to thinking taller for Nashville overall.  

Paul, I like your style.  I too hope that if and when a developer decides to really go for it in Nashville in terms of height that they also go for it in design as well.  I'd still be happy with a Signature Tower style building because they are always classic, but I'd love to see something so different than anything else located in the U.S. or Canada.

We don't have a company big enough here to justify a 50+ story office building like Charlotte and Atlanta does because of the banks. I'm hoping we will crack the 600 mark in next 10 years.

[titanhog]

1 hour ago, wreynol4 said:

We don't have a company big enough here to justify a 50+ story office building like Charlotte and Atlanta does because of the banks. I'm hoping we will crack the 600 mark in next 10 years.

Bridgestone could have easily gone with a different design and built 600'+...but went with what they have going up now, which is obviously too small (considering they're going to move more workers into another building).

[BnaBreaker]

7 hours ago, PillowTalk4 said:

I drove from the Washington, DC metro area to Atlanta for the Thanksgiving Holiday and I tell you after passing through Charlotte and of course driving around Atlanta, I was thinking the entire time just how much Nashville needs an office building that is 60 to 70 stories tall.  If you're driving through Charlotte along I-85 you never go into the heart of the city which is about 4-5 miles away depending on where you are on I-85, but you see vistas of the skyline that are really impressive from that distance.  Their tallest building is the Bank of America Center which is 60 stories at 871 feet.  Atlanta's tallest building happens to be the Bank of America Plaza which is 55 stories at 1,023 feet (I guess the pyramid top really adds height).  Counter that with 505CST under construction in Nashville which will be 45 stories at 543 feet and you can see why our skyline while improved will still seem stunted.  Just think how Nashville's skyline would have been transformed if Signature Tower at 70 stories and 1,030 feet had been built instead of 505.  It would have been the tallest building in the southeast and I think it would have been the catalyst to start developers to thinking taller for Nashville overall.  

Paul, I like your style.  I too hope that if and when a developer decides to really go for it in Nashville in terms of height that they also go for it in design as well.  I'd still be happy with a Signature Tower style building because they are always classic, but I'd love to see something so different than anything else located in the U.S. or Canada.

I completely hear what you're saying, and I too wish Nashville's skyline would reach higher.  However, I think it's a pretty big overstatement to say that a city "needs" a tall skyline.  I don't even really think it's important for a city to have an aesthetically attractive skyline, to be honest.  Yeah, they're nice to look at from a distance or on a postcard, and they're good for boasting about, but in reality, that's about it.  Of far more importance is the experience one has when actually on the ground IN the city, not the tingles they feel looking at it from great distances.