Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[Dale]

46 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Independence in front of the Dunkin Donuts and Tire Change place? Nice.

Center of the Universe!

[Prodev]

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/41339/should-be-ban-cars-from-uptown-charlotte/

Interesting topic on cars in uptown. While I think any chance of this is in the distant future if at all, I would think a starting point could be making Tryon pedestrian only and running a linear trolley the 1-mile from one end to the other, similar to 16th street mall in Denver, while still allowing vehicular access across Tryon. 

[CLT2014]

12 minutes ago, Prodev said:

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/41339/should-be-ban-cars-from-uptown-charlotte/

Interesting topic on cars in uptown. While I think any chance of this is in the distant future if at all, I would think a starting point could be making Tryon pedestrian only and running a linear trolley the 1-mile from one end to the other, similar to 16th street mall in Denver, while still allowing vehicular access across Tryon. 

I think this could work too. Most commuters aren't using Tryon to get into work in the morning - you can't make left or right turns during rush hour on most of it anyhow. You could close it without disrupting employees traffic patterns and have the major streets still have access across the pedestrian street. Throw pavers over the asphalt, have shops and outdoor cafes mixed in the middle, fountains, grass, and vendor carts would be really awesome. It would be a lot of work, but probably the best location for a pedestrian only street in Uptown. 

[ah59396]

37 minutes ago, Prodev said:

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/41339/should-be-ban-cars-from-uptown-charlotte/

Interesting topic on cars in uptown. While I think any chance of this is in the distant future if at all, I would think a starting point could be making Tryon pedestrian only and running a linear trolley the 1-mile from one end to the other, similar to 16th street mall in Denver, while still allowing vehicular access across Tryon. 

 

I loathe that people mover they have though.  Really cuts off the middle of the pedestrian street and frankly, I think it looks like a theme park.

 

I am 100% in favor of shutting down Tryon to cars from say, The Mint Museum where they have the Center City Green parking deck all the way to 7th street.  Lay pavers as mentioned above.  Maybe allow only horse buggies and peddy bikes along the length, let the trees grow larger and turn it into Charlotte's own mini La Rambla.  Game, set and match.

[49er]

Ped Malls have a very checkered past going back to the 1960's. They were a fad back then and most have been removed. The ones that survived were mostly in very dense settings with high pedestrian traffic - especially college towns. I know downtown is healthier than it was back then, but it could still be a tough sell. I've really enjoyed the ones in Boulder, Burlington VT and Charlottesville however Fayetteville St in Raleigh was awful before it was ripped out. You almost wonder if the concept was before its time in an era when everyone wanted to drive and not walk. 

I wonder if the square and the immediate blocks of trade and tryon could be a pedestrian mall just in that one area and reroute traffic around it?

 

[SgtCampsalot]

14 minutes ago, 49er said:

I wonder if the square and the immediate blocks of trade and tryon could be a pedestrian mall just in that one area and reroute traffic around it?

 

Ding ding. That would be the easiest sell. 

[Deleted.]

Can we stop calling in-street rail lines trolleys? It makes us sound dated and like a small city. Streetcar sounds more modern and thats what many large cities (like Atlanta) call them.

 

 

[go_vertical]

33 minutes ago, 49er said:

Ped Malls have a very checkered past going back to the 1960's. They were a fad back then and most have been removed. The ones that survived were mostly in very dense settings with high pedestrian traffic - especially college towns. I know downtown is healthier than it was back then, but it could still be a tough sell. I've really enjoyed the ones in Boulder, Burlington VT and Charlottesville however Fayetteville St in Raleigh was awful before it was ripped out. You almost wonder if the concept was before its time in an era when everyone wanted to drive and not walk. 

I wonder if the square and the immediate blocks of trade and tryon could be a pedestrian mall just in that one area and reroute traffic around it?

 

But they, and the idea of them, are making a strong comback. Of the very few traditional malls that have had expansions in the recent past a majority of them have gone with open-air, pedestrian street-style additions. Heck, Lincoln Road in South Beach was turned into a pedestrian only thoroughfare just ten years and today you couldn't imagine cars on that road. That mall is THE go to spot for shopping and clubbing in town. I think people are tired of the worn out, stale indoor mall shopping experience. I know if I have to go to the mall I just want to get what I need and get out, but an inviting pedestrian street flanked with shops, restaurants, bars, and lounges?....... I'll hang out a little while.

[kermit]

43 minutes ago, Piedmont767 said:

Can we stop calling in-street rail lines trolleys? It makes us sound dated and like a small city. Streetcar sounds more modern and thats what many large cities (like Atlanta) call them.

I too dislike the diminutive phrase "trolly" to describe in street rail. However it was used above to describe rubber-tired bus in Denver that runs a short shuttle route which really is a "trolly".

[RaleighHeelsfan]

Ped mall here in Raleigh, fayetteville street was a disaster! Best thing they ever did was opening it up back to traffic. Maybe Tryon will be different. But it did not work in Raleigh!

[Spartan]

I don't think walling off uptown would work because like it or not, we aren't Paris and we still have a vast majority of people in Charlotte who drive. The idea of closing Tryon St to vehicular traffic is interesting though. I agree that a pedestrian mall isn't the guaranteed home-run that its often sold to be. My hometown, Spartanburg, tried that experiment in the late 70s and it failed miserably (they removed it about 15 years later in the 90s). It was implemented as a big project and sold as a way to compete with the malls.

I think, however, that the idea can work if implemented gradually and strategically, and with the understanding that Church and College will never be two-way, traffic calmed streets. A lot of cities are moving towards the same concept, just applied in different ways. Charleston, for example, is experimenting with closing King Street to vehicular traffic on Sundays. If you've ever been to King Street in Charleston you know that the sidewalks are uncomfortably narrow given how many people use them. The idea to close King St to traffic all the time probably isn't popular with business owners for fear of loss of revenue. But, if you try it a few times as an experiment then it gives people the chance to warm up to the idea. The next step would be to try it over an entire weekend, and then gradually introduce it to more time, and potentially other streets (ie: Market Street) as well.

The same process could be applied to Tryon Street. We know, for example, that we can close the street for festivals and it works fine. We just need to get people on board with the idea of closing it for no reason except to allow other modes to use the street. Of course, on Tryon we don't have the intense amount of retail that King St does, so its debatable how much of an effect it would have on foot traffic other than people might show up just for the fun of it.

Another example is Wall Street in Spartanburg. Most of you have probably never heard of it. It is a 1-block long street that was rarely used by cars. The city funded a project to convert it into a "festival street" that can allow emergency vehicles through, but is effectively closed off to traffic 100% of the time. It works as an extension of Morgan Square, it can hold foot trucks, and there are some restaurants that have set up tables and plants, etc. outside which make the area much more inviting. It's essentially the same concept as Brevard Ct, but the point is that they made a conscious effort to close a street to traffic. I think the City and Center City Partners should try to find places where, through redevelopment, we can get more places like Brevard Ct and Latta Arcade. They may like the historic charm, but having pedestrian-only zones like that would do wonders for this city. And the most important part is that it can't be executed like Epicenter. It has to feel more authentic.

[49er]

I'd also add that the big difference in 2016 is that downtown Charlotte has a relatively huge residential population now. Most of these malls died back in the day because everyone left at 5pm and no one wanted to come back after hours and on weekends.  

[caterpillar2]

What draws people to streets for a mall like venue with closed off are shops, outdoor cafes, coffee houses, street performers, live music,  (not some guys with brass instruments making loud noise), food kiosks, and interesting places to view, , venders of art, antiques,  and other specialties, weekend farmer's market,  regular festivals, and other things not usually found uptown.  Perhaps Tryon could close on Saturdays and Sundays for the aforementioned. We could turn it into a Petticoat Lane or Liverpool Street lke places that are in London. It could work after a while if interest were recruited.  It could work.

Edited March 4, 2016 by caterpillar2
add sentence

[km1789]

The key here in all of these "successful" examples is that there are actually a critical mass of things to do, places to shop, restaurants with significant street presence/seating. We have and are making progress, but there is not nearly enough there there to sustain a pedestrian mall IMO. 

[videtur quam contuor]

4 hours ago, Piedmont767 said:

Can we stop calling in-street rail lines trolleys? It makes us sound dated and like a small city. Streetcar sounds more modern and thats what many large cities (like Atlanta) call them.

 

 

From my trolley operating experience with car 85 the term "trolley" was used long ago to describe the rolling wheel at the end of a pole which conducted electricity to a wire thence to a motor. This was true in any such application and not just on street based passenger vehicles. The term was apparently more common at that time from other uses of this new electricity service. The public sought a distinction between a conventional passenger rail car and this new device which came on rails but was self motivated, so to speak. The distinction was the pole capped with a trolley and after saying "the car with a pole and trolley", meaning the rotating round pulley like object at the top, they just said "trolley" and left it at that. The transportation became known for one relatively small part of the whole. Bus like vehicles with rubber tires and overhead electric connections that operate in San Francisco and other cities have different names, and rail vehicles that can operate in city streets and then also move onto inter-city rail lines as is more common in Europe have other names as well.

From my admittedly limited research the terms trolley and streetcar existed in parallel during the early 20th century and neither term ousted the other.

[Silicon Dogwoods]

5 hours ago, Piedmont767 said:

Can we stop calling in-street rail lines trolleys? It makes us sound dated and like a small city. Streetcar sounds more modern and thats what many large cities (like Atlanta) call them.

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

From my trolley operating experience with car 85 the term "trolley" was used long ago to describe the rolling wheel at the end of a pole which conducted electricity to a wire thence to a motor. This was true in any such application and not just on street based passenger vehicles. The term was apparently more common at that time from other uses of this new electricity service. The public sought a distinction between a conventional passenger rail car and this new device which came on rails but was self motivated, so to speak. The distinction was the pole capped with a trolley and after saying "the car with a pole and trolley", meaning the rotating round pulley like object at the top, they just said "trolley" and left it at that. The transportation became known for one relatively small part of the whole. Bus like vehicles with rubber tires and overhead electric connections that operate in San Francisco and other cities have different names, and rail vehicles that can operate in city streets and then also move onto inter-city rail lines as is more common in Europe have other names as well.

From my admittedly limited research the terms trolley and streetcar existed in parallel during the early 20th century and neither term ousted the other.

In San Francisco, a trolley is an electrified bus that runs on overhead wires. There are also fossil-fueled buses like ours.

A streetcar runs on embedded track and an overhead wire. Many people call this streetcar MUNI although MUNI refers to the whole system.

When it goes underground, like a subway, it is called MUNI Metro.

Then there are the historic streetcars of the F line. And the famous cable cars that run on embedded track pulled along by cables underneath the street. And BART, which is like Atlanta's MARTA.

No, it's not confusing at all.

 

[LKN704]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 4:40 PM, Silicon Dogwoods said:

 

In San Francisco, a trolley is an electrified bus that runs on overhead wires. There are also fossil-fueled buses like ours.

A streetcar runs on embedded track and an overhead wire. Many people call this streetcar MUNI although MUNI refers to the whole system.

When it goes underground, like a subway, it is called MUNI Metro.

Then there are the historic streetcars of the F line. And the famous cable cars that run on embedded track pulled along by cables underneath the street. And BART, which is like Atlanta's MARTA.

No, it's not confusing at all.

 

Add to the fact that BART is really a commuter rail/metro hybrid spanning great distance with a expensive fare zone system makes it more confusing...

[rjp212]

Noticed a roped off circle in the plaza at Graham and Mint.  Seems like a place a sculpture would go.   Anybody know anything about it?

[southslider]

As long as Charlotte has the Gamaco trolleys, and even Gold Rush, they will be called trolleys. Phase 2 fixes both.

[CLTProductions]

This is what I'm talkin about. Poplar Street Wine Bar and Cafe. Opened yesterday (10th & Poplar) and it was packed tonight. They close at 8pm for now (unfortunately) due to a gentleman's agreement with the city and neighbors. Over time as the neighbors see there's no noise and its a wine bar not blackfinn I am sure they'll extend hours. It's amazing inside, the food is good, the atmosphere is perfect. Charlotte needs more of this. This is just cool.

[15895]

http://photos.clearskyimages.com/2016-03-brevard-st-charlotte-heli

Clearskyimages gallery... Titled Brevard St. Norfolk Southern.

 

Hmmmm...

Edited March 9, 2016 by AirNostrumMAD

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

http://photos.clearskyimages.com/2016-03-brevard-st-charlotte-heli

Clearskyimages gallery... Titled Brevard St. Norfolk Southern.

 

Hmmmm...

I've been checking back for this to be updated for like 7 days straight. LOL. I had a feeling. I've been hearing this would be offloaded in the next couple years. Dubone said otherwise. Now I'm wondering again. 

[15895]

6 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I've been checking back for this to be updated for like 7 days straight. LOL. I had a feeling. I've been hearing this would be offloaded in the next couple years. Dubone said otherwise. Now I'm wondering again. 

I hope the block is developed on the 3rd street side and remains a parking lot on the 4th street side until the Transit Center bites the dust. 

[uptownliving]

While out for a bike ride through uptown last night I noticed that it looks like they are testing multi-color led lights for the crown on top of BofA Corporate Center. More color coming to the nighttime skyline.

[CLTProductions]

As much as I love all the color, I prefer Corp center to just be standard white. Kind of a bummer but whatever Charlotte overdoes everything