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But you were the one who mentioned Brooklyn & “anywhere in the US”. So. I am serious with that. & I don’t care who you mute, so. You quoted me. You replied to me. Numerous times. It only seems fitting you be the one to mute me, so. Edit: in response to the profanity below, I did not bring up my personal habits, I did not allude to anywhere else and picked the most basic routine things that already exist in Charlotte in response to your list to me listing off urgent cares and dentist that I don’t consider to be every day errands. You mentioned NY. You quoted me up & down. And Instead of just muting like you said you were, you use profanity (something I don’t do, so you won’t get profanity back in kind from me.)

I’m not sensitive, I’m just responding to what you said to me. Sometimes I think You respond to my post with wrong information like the below & act surprised when I still dont agree In fact, I think I tried to be respectful and say it works for you. But you’re more interested in talking about NYC and the entire country. I also said I think this development is great the way it is and probably couldn’t do a better job. The office component provides business diversified business and revenue with the residents at night.

So you think I’m lying? Do you want a list? From B&N it was a French to English visual dictionary. From Macy’s, it was a hoodie, a little Kuerig coffee machine, and a queen size comforter that was vacuum sealed the size of a small briefcase. From the weed store, it was two packs of THC infused Ocean-Breeze Gummies. The dog was dropped off at camp. I used that bookbag to carry smaller things. The post office was to drop off cards From Pottery Barn it was a picture frame as a gift and I accidentally bought myself something I have no idea what it is but it was cute and I want it for a new table. CVS it was wrapping paper which yes was a struggle with the tubes because I had 5 but it was across the street from my place and my last stop so I figured I could hobble. in 1 trip… If I was getting more, I would have brought my little cart thing. Or just went later or the next day… Edit: The Krispy Kreme was the small box of 3. Because the bigger box is too inconvenient.

And I said I literally just did it so I don’t know why you keep repeating its not possible anywhere? And I regularly make those type of errands. It wasn’t some special trip… it’s normal, regular stuff people need in Charlotte too. IKEA… really anything. Normal stuff… And it’s the same thing I did in Charlotte. Same places. And if the bus to SouthPark was Better, I’d do it again (I’ve tried it twice. Once From uptown. Once from I think Scaleybark. Time… consuming…) DC is not the most urban city in the U.S., so I have a hard time believing NY, San Francisco, Chicago it’s not possible but somehow in DC it is…

Those are the *same* places I went while I was in Charlotte…. The same habits… You don’t think other Charlotteans are going to B&N, Macy’s, Pottery Barn, pick up their kids, post office all in one swoop? I didn’t say “this cute little local book store in a charming row home and the cute little toy store beside it”. I said the post office. The doggy daycare. Macy’s. B&N. Krispy Kreme. I like Pottery Barn. The same stuff…. If the buses to SouthPark were more reliable, that starts to become possible. You’re still trying to drag other areas into it. It’s not necessary. We can leave NYC out of it and keep this focused on Charlotte unless it’s somehow relevant….

Well I literally just did it so. I just left off Barnes & Noble & Macy’s… (Edit: and the weed store & Krispy Kreme, lol) Im not really interested in talking about NY or elsewhere, tbh. I’m not interested in getting into discussions about elsewhere, I’m just strictly talking about Charlotte within context of Charlotte so. It’d be great if we could not drift bringing other places into the equation.

I “hearted” your post. I have a hard time imagining people walking from SouthEnd to WholeFoods for groceries in significant numbers (Ive walked several times from a friends house that lived in 550 Uptown to SouthEnd when we missed a train)and it wasn’t great nor much foot traffic any of the times). And it was cold. And dark. And seemed longer than it probably was. I liked your post because, it works for you. And I can appreciate your experience. I value access, getting to wherever I want, the freedom of mobility and I feel like there’s more freedom in car ownership in Charlotte. If I need to run to CVS, run to Target, drop something off at the post office, get Christmas stuff or check out new furniture, drop off my dog at doggy daycare, it just seems easier and have the options to go to the specific gym I like, the specific restaurant. I felt confined in Catalyst trying to not use a car. It just doesn’t work for me nor enjoyable to rely nearly exclusively on transit in its current form in Charlotte. I think the answer is better transit than wishing Queens Bridge was all residential. Im also surprised how so few here live in Multifamily housing nor live in center city.

6 Figure Salary walking from QueensBridge to WholeFoods several x a week? Doesn’t seem like something high income earners would want to do. Light Rail with 10 minute frequencies? Yeah. To WholeFoods & CVS. Better, rapid bus service throughout center city to get to Freedom Park, churches, TJ Maxxx, various restaurants, etc. I’m just saying I think the project is as good as it can get to adding vibrancy but mobility is what will be the driving force behind more vibrancy, people out etc. I think the mixed-use is better than just pure residential, actually. But there’s so many other reasons why people need to drive a vehicle very regularly if transit isn’t improved. It sounds like a nice house arrest to rely on that list you provided assuming transit doesn’t get revamped. Meanwhile, given how walkable and such it is, maybe people should stop taking pics while driving a vehicle and rely on transit for picture updates.

I wonder where BRT would even go in Charlotte. All the routes I think of seem geared towards commuters and at that point, would it only be BRT during the work hours? Or would suburbs get fast frequent and heavily invested in bus infrastructure before the inner city… and is there much demand for that service (relative to the investment) that the Express buses don’t already accomplish? I’d love to see Freedom have a bus only lane + protected bike lanes and government $ to flow into it to bring more affordable & low income housing (with Market Rate components). I think that corridor has a tonnnn of potential, but I think only intentional action (laws) by the city can make that successful. Light Rail down Wilkinson, ~12 bus with bus lanes on Freedom, already have the Gold Line and densify the neighborhoods between Brookshire down to Wilkinson. That’d be so awesome IMO. From Morehead around Wesley Heights and along Berryhill Road, it looks like it has strong bones to be a future SouthEnd (not in character or anything but in scale of development)

Hello Miami, I mean Austin https://www.flickr.com/photos/gabetakesphotos/53422546883/

Nice analysis by Kermit indeed. The one thing about Richmond’s BRT is I don’t quite recall the fanfare of it being BRT. It seemed like an emphasis on the overall bus network, bus lane and optimizing the network to be overall frequent, simple and focus on stations and eyeing a new facility downtown. BRT seemed to me like, I dunno, just a part of an overall revamp whereas cities clamoring for federal dollars for it that I’ve seen seem to be treating it like “build BRT and the rest will follow” similar to how LRT can encourage development, revitalize areas, etc. But I think BRT is only a piece of the puzzle. The GGWash actually has a lot of great articles about Richmond’s transit (for anyone interested in reading. There’s a ton of great analysis for those not interested in Richmond. I’m not interested in Richmond, but the articles have great discussions and links) Future BRT discussions: https://ggwash.org/view/91794/richmond-releases-alignment-of-second-pulse-bus-rapid-transit-route High Level of the transformation (from Aug 2022) https://ggwash.org/view/85856/richmond-has-made-monumental-progress-on-public-transit-we-must-keep-moving-forward With this interesting bit about a transportation authority (which is very relevant to Charlotte as I know some here are big champions) Finally, the establishment of the Central Virginia Transportation Authority in 2020 has created GRTC’s first dedicated revenue stream and established a regional body to foster cooperation amongst localities. 2022 could be the most exciting year for transit since the great redesign of 2018 with a historic 20% increase in bus service in the works. Plus, the city has painted the Pulse lanes red from 3rd Street to I-195, thanks in part to a state grant. Theres a ton more of in-depth analysis (a ton that are recent) here with lots of sources to other articles https://ggwash.org/search/908344757bc875e4ad97bb93cbca94a5 Also as DownEast notes, Richmond does have historically dense neighborhoods and the BRT essentially runs down the middle (pretty much Highway 250, which is a straight line.) In the DC area, we have two BRT’s. I’m most familiar with MetroWay (below) which is *slower* than sin despite having mostly dedicated bus lanes, grand shelters, etc. in Arlington. I’d call it a failure. Or at least not something to emulate. I think what makes it awful is that it isn’t a straight line. Partly due to highway 1 up north where it’s an elevated highway, and the turns, etc. Which is how I imagine it would be for Charlotte (having detours to hit higher densities of movement as opposed to staying mostly on one main road) In DC, we have normal bus service that is more frequent (and 24 hour) routes. But they mostly go in straight lines. So I just get the feeling rapid bus works best in straight lines of dense areas. I don’t think Charlotte should pursue BRT in the way Houston or I guess Wake are. I mean, sure pursue it but I don’t think it’ll do much. Not in growth. Not in development. Not in improved transit much. I think just increases frequencies on certain bus routes are better uses of resources and I think the eye should be on LRT & we shouldn’t be pressed with Houston or Raleigh getting federal dollars. I’m just not sure it’s going to pan out. But. That’s my opinion on BRT. I think Charlotte isn’t missing out. And I don’t think it’d encourage much dev. I think it’s a fad and the Silver Line in the form of LRT will be by far superior to BRT, as hard as it is to ignore the fanfare surrounding these grants.

The BRT trend gives me “Obama-era” streetcar vibes. It also seems the areas getting BRT are places that have less optimal transit & less state support for mass transit. Sort of like how Streetcars were pursued due to seeming that was the only transit that was viable to pursue from a funding standpoint. Looking at Houston where they’re spending a ton on BRT, it looks like some portions are in the middle of giantttt roads. For me, I’m always a split between… no transit improvements vs. bad transit improvements. I’m still not sure which is better. Because bad transit seems to be future justification of less investment in the future. Are there any good examples of BRT in the U.S.?

Downtown Portland is on a completely different league than uptown Charlotte. From Louis Vuitton, Apple, Nike (which is moving into a larger two-level space) to local Retailers, local book stores, downtown Portland has a ton of offerings. No Legacy Union, but that can be Charlotte’s hidden gem. (And when I say Uptown Charlotte, I’m narrowing it to mean the area between College & Graham) MAGA lies & anti-urban tropes aside, I don’t think any city is immune to not losing their team. Maybe a few like the Yankees where they seem like an overall brand staple to the league. LA didn’t have a football team several years ago and now it has 2, lol. So anything is possible. I think it’s going to be right place / right time of a scenario moreso than anything. It has all the goods in terms of the merit, as do other places.

Atherton Mill gives me Ballantyne Village vibes. (I love the way it looks though)

All else equal & specific to Charlotte, 5-Plus Matchstick maybe. - The Tallest residential I’ve lived in was Catalyst in uptown and the elevators were so freakin slow (and it was detached parking.) it was so hard to get motivated to leave, wait in the elevator, go to the parking garage, drive down the maze of parking. Every time I needed something that was directly nearby which was often. - 5-floor matchbox, I feel like they come with more amenities. You still get good views, usually nice rooftops and good amenities that you’d find in the high rise but a bit more amenity space and elevators don’t take as long and the parking situation isn’t as intense. I currently live in an 11 floor building and it’s best if both worlds imo. Restaurants in the bottom is another nice amenity. - walk-up is cute. I’ve lived in one, it was very nice to be able to immediately pop outside. But there were less amenities and not as great views, less sunlight.

Nice.

That’s funny because I literally said: You like Urban Sprawl, that’s what you want. I’m not going to convince you to not like it. Im not convincing anyone to have different preferences. Im talking to people who don’t want urban sprawl. Who don’t particularly want Charlotte’s urbanity to reflect that of Houston / Atlanta, who want the city to be dense. I’m not saying anyone should want density, I’m saying people who do want density. I don’t feel like people in SouthEnd have a more intellectually prospective of life. I think South End is full of transitional young single people with higher paying jobs, college degrees. I think a focus should be on creating an inner-core that all incomes and families and residents can afford to live in and not just (I) people in poverty (II) people in the top range of income (III) focused on young college professionals. People either can’t afford center city, uncomfortable in neighborhoods that they perceive as too much crime or SouthEnd doesn’t fit their lifestyle (Im 31, it’s not my vibe.) In regards to my last comment. It was basically “practice what you preach.” Why advocate for certain laws, for Charlotte be a certain way but you’re not willing to live the lifestyle yourself? How does one go around talking about density this, density that, anti-car, etc yet at the end of the day lives in a low dense part of a neighborhood (even if it is one like NoDa) with a car. If you don’t live like that, why do you think others would? I like my neighborhood because it’s full of families, a diverse & mixed-income neighborhood, plenty of public schools, neighborhood parks even despite having a ton of newer large developments. Skyscrapers are just skyscrapers. I don’t think Legacy Union changes anything. I don’t think Legacy Union does anything but serve as office space. Focusing on the entire center city (different policies for further out areas), into neighborhoods that go unnoticed. More parks, zoning reforms, wider sidewalks, etc. And if I were to move back to Charlotte, I’d live in Lake Norman or maybe Ballantyne. Not uptown. Definitely not SouthEnd. Preferably a Charleston style shotgun house with a BMW, so. To me, Charlotte doesn’t have any urban neighborhoods that I would want to live an urban lifestyle in at the moment nor seemingly anytime soon. I didn’t choose another specific area because I don’t like engaging in conversations like that. I’ll choose a composition of cities to talk about the characteristics but I’m not getting into specifics because that’s when people start drifting to where is better and I don’t like that. And everywhere has its own set of facts. And then people are going to talk about things out of context, because they don’t know the other area etc. It’s not the dialogue I prefer. & FYI, you’re probably one of the only people on this board who aren’t interested in density, urban issues and urban growth of the inner-city core. But im not convincing people to fundamentally change Charlotte. I mean, at least not like the majority on this board. I’m fine with increased housing in Wesley Heights, wider sidewalks & South Blvd. getting a road diet and bike lanes and making the crosswalks way bigger. Other people are focused on building more Skyscrapers than Raleigh to become a “world class city” whatever that means. Practice what you preach. Once you live the life you’re preaching, then talk to me. I feel like it’s super important to have a perspective of the lifestyle of that which you want other people to live by. Because reality of living it is different than occasionally joining it then back off to your big house and nice yard. Edit: Center City Charlotte in uptown and the other neighborhoods are way less diverse and even more expensive than my neighborhood that is more populated, next to the waterfront with Hell’s Kitchen, The Atlantic HQ, and other prestigious firms and restaurants, 2 metro stops, all of it. The Smithsonian museums are only a few blocks away. And yet it’s cheaper here than center city Charlotte… How does that work… The below shows the extremes of the center city Charlotte zip codes where as I mentioned earlier. You either are young, single willing to live in the dorms if SouthEnd…. In poverty or very racially skewed. Or very wealthy. Everyone else is screwed. The neighborhoods are of extremes. That’s where I think opportunity lies… break down the barriers keeping these extremes. I want policies to give Charlotteans the freedom to choose to live in center city instead of government having laws that restricts that from happening. I don’t want Charlotte to be like anywhere else, I do want it have policies that don’t artificially exclude people from center city. Uptown: My neighborhood: 28203: 28207: My Neighborhood: 28207: My neighborhood:

Completely agree. I actually started another thread pertaining to this. Why specifically uptown? Why would a Pet Supplies Plus be better in Uptown more than its current location in Elizabeth? It’s really just another rhetorical question that isn’t in the spirit of this thread (retail in uptown/SouthEnd mostly)

This Thread is about Center City and broader Urban Discussion in relation to Center City. There are threads about specific projects or neighborhoods but this thread can be reserved for general ideas, general discussion, hypotheticals etc. that way other topics discussing actual news / updates doesn’t get derailed with hypotheticals, policy discussion, etc. Center City has several definitions. Center City Partners defines it as the 2-Mile Radius from Trade/Tryon (2nd ring below) Other artistic versions show a similar broad geography I think to the detriment of broader Center City, there is too much emphasis on a narrow strip of SouthEnd, Uptown, Dilworth, Plaza, Myers Park. I’ve held the belief to be a true urban area (specifically center city), Charlotte Leaders need to focus on the majority… To me, the key to Charlotte’s vibrancy, urbanity, transformation and transition into a large urban center rest in the gold mine below: When we start building a center city for everybody, that’s when Charlotte is urban. There are so many middle and lower class people in these neighborhoods. Charlotte needs to funnel money into these areas, from social help, to new parks, new plazas, all of it. And that is where Charlotte needs to pump money into housing, move a new NFL/MLS stadium out there west of 77. If you look at cities in the U.S. like NY, San Francisco, Boston, DC etc. The CBD area isn’t what people fall in love with. And that’s even true around the world. It’s the Castro (among others) in San Francisco it’s Adam’s Morgan (among others) in DC, *notttt* the federal buildings near the National Mall This has been my observation in almost anywhere I’ve been with kudos to Philly & San Fran (even on global standards to cities I’ve been) being more lively in their immediate CBD unlike DC and most places. As much as I think these other areas outside the usuals in center city matter, I realized in the retail in center city, I’m a bit hypocritical to preach about the rest of center city when I say things like there’s not enough xyz retail. Thats not true - it’s just not in the form I imagine. So how do we advocate for real policy that transforms, lifts up, invest in the rest of center city instead of ignoring their existence? Because that IMO is the key to urbanity in Charlotte. (and fyi I didn’t intend to imply West of 77 should resemble Castro District or Adam’s Morgan. It’s just the easiest examples to demonstrate CBD’s aren’t typically where the magic happens. Which in Charlotte, will look different but overall the concept of investing in other neighborhoods)

I just realized, and it’s sort of silly that I’m only realizing. Center City already has a ton of retail. From Walmart, Target, plenty of grocery options like Fresh Market, national retailers like GameStop, Pet Supplies Plus … What retailers or what further options are people actually looking for? The entire center city has at very least the basics. NoDa has the Food Lion, though it’d be nicer if it was a Harris Teeter but at the end of the day, it gets the job done. As much as I loved the Map Store I equally love the Blossom Shop that replaced it. What shortage of retail / restaurant option is there?

Unless most of the residents have to drive, which I imagine most people would need to very often in this location. It’s not a silver bullet to just have more residents. Increasing blue line frequency and bus service (maybe there should be high frequency urban circulator type service throughout SouthEnd as a supplemental to light rail) is really probably the most important factor in that. For example, most people without a vehicle go to the grocery store near daily or multiple times a week. Going to Publix or Harris Teeter from Queens Bridge could be literally an hour to/from. Start expanding that beyond just a grocery store and for every day needs or places beyond the immediate surrounding… A healthy mix of uses are great and this development probably couldn’t do better itself to add vitality, foot traffic and vibrancy to the area. The office workers should provide a good addition of workers to patronize certain retailers during the day with residents & visitors at night.

I’m right there with you but tbh, I try to moderate my views or amend them when posting because I get people too riled up too frequently lol. So I was just trying to throw a bone, lol. This is super common here; When I see people talking about NYC bleeding people and to be thankful that Charlotte is booming and getting all the skyscrapers it does when it too could be bleeding people like NYC and therefore, less skyscrapers built. I literally can’t understand. Because NYC is literally not only building the most… but they’re quite monumental developments so… NYC has had one of the most transformational skylines in the past decade IMO. So it’s just hard to follow. Then add to it that the Texas cities and Atlanta and Raleigh (and even little ole Nashville. How Nashville? lol) get quite the flack here and it’s like… A giant mismatch of priorities vs. desired outcome. Those policy discussions or thought exercises are like… not a recipe for pleasant interactions here xD So. Not wanting to be like xyz city building more skyscrapers because you’re afraid you’ll get less skyscrapers. Not following. A few Skyscrapers, some light rail lines. That just isn’t going to cut it. That’s not policy - those are projects / developments. One trendy urban policy here and there isn’t going to cut it. Good ole boring dry policy that focuses on the entire core (not just a few pockets) and a renewed efforts into the entire city center, the urbanization of Freedom Drive, investments in the lower income neighborhoods in center city, taxing reforms, a focus on the historical black neighborhoods is key to Charlotte’s urbanity along with other long-term sustainable policy as a whole. You can’t have an urban Center City Charlotte when the vast majority of it goes ignored. & Any policy passed will take decades to play out. It’s just such an extremely hard sell when Charlotte is firing on all cylinders and broadly considered by certain definitions a booming city with a bright future. A sustainable future, with smaller houses, Less vehicle infrastructure improvements in lieu of mass transit vs. a booming economy and building to meet today’s needs and widening congested roads. Right. If private investors want to use their dollars, have fun. Using city resources is just nonsense. You could build way more housing for more economically diverse families at a fraction of the cost of pumping money into an office conversion for higher income folks who don’t need the subsidies. Doesn’t make sense in Charlotte unless it’s a strategic place-making conversion that will have ripple effects like that article about Cleveland in the Learning from Other Places thread.

IMO, so spot on. Another thing in fundamentally changing Charlotte from auto-oriented sprawl to a more sustainable & dense city with adequate transit options is thinking long-term. It’s going to take decades for almost any city outside of a few to move towards a more urban future (and I think quite a bit of cities have taken that leap). Even mature dense & urban metropolitan areas are still laying the ground work for a more urban metropolitan area. I look at Denver & there are some criticisms or disappointment surrounding the ridership of the light rail. But if we fast forward 60 years… 60 years of their rail network, Denver might have transformed into an area resembling the DC region, for example. And it’s not just rail, it’s new housing policy, new climate policies, new tax structures so many things that will move at glacial speeds but one day people will wake up wondering how Denver became such an urban area (if it does). It was boring, dry policy that at the time seemed inconsequential and low impact. IMO it’s going to be monumental and probably impossible in the political climate of Charlotte / NC. Balancing the needs of today with the needs of the future in addition to the saying “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. I don’t think there’s political will from the voters for that shift. I do think there’s political will to build another rail line & piece meal policies that won’t really shift anything fundamentally, but not the entire package to transform Charlotte away from an urban-sprawl model of growth. And that’s ok - many people prefer it & well, we can still advocate for other things within that frame to make a lot of progress in urbanity and sustainability.

Per REIS as of 3Q23 Charlotte had the following Multifamily Units Complete: 2013 - 3,739 2014 - 4,147 2015 - 4,042 2016 - 7,125 2017 - 5,358 2018 - 6,642 2019 - 8,156 2020 - 6,125 2021 - 6,891 2022 - 4,743 Best Case Scenario Projections: 2023 - 4,117 2024 - 3,563 2025 - 6,464 2026 - 3,486 2027 - 3,299 Forecast: 2028 - 2,663 2029 - 2,145 2030 - 2,101 2031 - 3,157 In 4Q21 the inventory of multifamily units in Charlotte was 176,151. By 2032 it’s expected to be 215,723.

I feel like Amtrak and passenger train service is pretty popular with rural & conservative men. I also think a lot of rural and conservative men in general have a hobby for freight trains, older trains and such. I know I’m generalizing here a bit & maybe wrongly so, but I feel like it’s not such the hot rod for Conservative and rural legislators like mass transit in general is. So hopefully it’s realistic to think it could progress at a reasonable time frame. I actually feel like passenger rail is progressing way faster than I ever expected in my lifetime. (But you and a couple other posters are train experts and I know next to nothing on passenger nor freight trains other than layman’s knowledge) Also, with all this money floating around, billions of dollars from the feds (California on rail transit alone has been many many many billions the last couple years from BART to MUNI, LA Metro, CalTrain, California High Speed Rail, BrightLine West, Pacific Surfliner or whatever, another system I don’t know the name of, etc)… at some point you have to see the $ signs of how much of those federal dollars will stimulate in the economy from construction to economy activity in general.