Charlotte MLB Team Speculation

[eastsider]

14 hours ago, elrodvt said:

Those would be very small markets for a AAA team. That said, if CLT were to get a MLB team the current trend is to place your higher level minor teams close by. 

They would probably try to work out an affiliation with the Durham Bulls.

[kermit]

A move out of town seems unlikely but the WhiteSox are now making noises about moving.

Reinsdorf is 87, so a sale in the near future seems likely as well.

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2023/08/21/report-white-sox-may-be-pondering-a-move-out-of-chicago/

Not mentioned here is that the Sox lease at Guaranteed Rate has 6 more years to go.

Edited August 22, 2023 by kermit

[Take2]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:32 PM, Hushpuppy321 said:

So right now - The Brewers and Devil Rays are open to Relocation.  

I can remember many many many moons ago when the Brewers threatened to leave Milwaukee for Charlotte... boy did the city get excited!! 

In the end the Brewers  was just looking for newer facilities and used Charlotte in their whole scare tactic scheme. Obviously it worked as like I said this was probably 20+yrs ago.

[SouthEndCLT811]

3 hours ago, Take2 said:

I can remember many many many moons ago when the Brewers threatened to leave Milwaukee for Charlotte... boy did the city get excited!! 

In the end the Brewers  was just looking for newer facilities and used Charlotte in their whole scare tactic scheme. Obviously it worked as like I said this was probably 20+yrs ago.

Thanks for that history I never knew the Brewers teased a move prior.  Found this article from 1996 where the Washington area was excited about the Brewers potential move to Charlotte as it'd clear the way for someone to buy and relocate the Astros to the DC area... For $150M!  For context the Astros are now valued at $2.25B

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1996/06/18/brewers-possible-relocation-may-aid-n-virginia-cause/fb6dceba-74d6-4edb-852a-7c70638422c3/

[carolinaboy]

On 8/21/2023 at 2:30 AM, elrodvt said:

Those would be very small markets for a AAA team. That said, if CLT were to get a MLB team the current trend is to place your higher level minor teams close by. 

If Charlotte got a new/expansion MLB team, maybe they could locate their new AAA team in Raleigh and AA in Rock Hill. The Knights are the AAA team of the Chicago White Sox so a new MLB team wouldn't have control over the Knights.

If Charlotte got a relocated Milwaukee Brewers, their AAA team is already in Nashville.

[DMann]

I thought Minnesota was the team toying with Charlotte before the new Target Field was built.

[SouthEndCLT811]

36 minutes ago, DMann said:

I thought Minnesota was the team toying with Charlotte before the new Target Field was built.

Earlier today's info about the Brewers sent me down the rabbit hole.  Yes to both the Brewers in '96 and Twins in '97

https://tht.fangraphs.com/the-franchise-moves-that-almost-happened/

Quote

The North Carolina Twins—1997

When Twins owner Carl Pohlad could not get a new stadium built in Minneapolis, he looked to move on and sell the team to North Carolina businessman Don Beaver. Charlotte seemed like a ripe market in the 1990s to put a baseball team. The Hornets tested the waters for the NBA. The expansion Panthers were successful in the NFL and a proposed sports center would have included a baseball stadium.

However, a backlash from the city against public money for stadium construction halted any Charlotte ballpark in its tracks. Instead Beaver had his eyes set on what is known as The Piedmont Triad, which is the area that includes Greensboro, Winston-Salem and High Point. (And close to Durham and the symbol of minor league baseball for many movie-goers.) The region had an NHL hockey team with the Hurricanes and the thought was that the area would support a baseball team and still get TV revenue from Charlotte.

The hope for a tax-funded stadium fell through, as did the hope of major league baseball in the Carolinas. Beaver did wind up buying the Charlotte Knights Triple-A team. The Twins remained in Minnesota and despite contraction and relocation rumors, they finally got their new ballpark, Target Field, in 2010.

 

[jthomas]

^Yeah, the Triad ballpark was supposed to go where I-40 and Business 40 split near Kernersville, right along the Forsyth/Guilford line.  There was a referendum for public funding for the stadium that failed. As a lifelong Triad resident, I think that was a blessing in disguise - I don't think the team would have been successful here. It would have been a bad location - being centrally located in the Triad and NC sounds nice in theory, there's no way this area could have (or even could now) supported an 81-game home schedule. It was probably all a bluff anyway. 

[Crucial_Infra]

35 minutes ago, jthomas said:

I don't think the team would have been successful here. It would have been a bad location - being centrally located in the Triad and NC sounds nice in theory, there's no way this area could have (or even could now) supported an 81-game home schedule. It was probably all a bluff anyway. 

But we could’ve used it as an excuse to build another urban loop up there. (I do get a kick out of looking up traffic in the Triad during rush-hour. All green in Greensboro.)

[Richhamleigh, DC]

On 8/18/2023 at 8:26 AM, smeagolsfree said:

This is the group that is behind the effort to bring MLB to Nashville. They have some big names associated with them. Seems to me they have been around for at least two ro three years now working behind the scenes and releasing news about every other week trying to stay in the news.

Music City Baseball | Nashville TN | MLBMusicCity.com

Nashville is a small TV market compared to Charlotte or Raleigh.  All NC TV markets combined are the biggest outside Florida and Texas in the SE.  This is a fact MLB may find hard to jgnore.

[DownEast]

^^ lol. I do the same thing. No matter what time of day, there is never a traffic jam in Greensboro. 

[DMann]

Maybe the Knights and the White Sox can just switch cities:

CLEVELAND, Ohio — One of the Guardians’ oldest rivals could be the next major North American sports franchise to uproot and head for greener pastures, according to a report Monday by Greg Hinz of Crain’s Chicago Business. White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf is considering relocating his team to Nashville, per Hinz, if the club is unable to resolve a stadium lease issue with the city.

 

Reinsdorf, who has owned the White Sox since 1981, has six years remaining on his current lease agreement at Guaranteed Rate Field in the Bridgeport neighborhood on Chicago’s South Side. Plans to build a new stadium in the city or surrounding suburbs could also be under consideration as developers are reportedly scrambling to get bids together, according to Hinz.

[smeagolsfree]

I was not going to post this when I saw it night before last. The main issue with any team coming to Nashville is this; There will not be any money for a new stadium period as Metro is tapped out as far as spending goes when it comes to high dollar stadiums. A newly completed Soccer Stadium and now a new NFL stadium getting ready to start next year has sort of left a bad taste in the mouths of voters. So, if a team wants a new stadium here, they will have to build it themselves with creative financing.

Areana football is making a return, and they will have to play in an existing facility and talk of WNBA coming too will have to play in either the Bridgestone or Municipal Arena. I for one just do not know how Nashville can support all of the pro Sports teams.

[KJHburg]

I am afraid Nashville is being used by the White Sox like Charlotte was with the Brewers to get a new stadium somewhere Chicagoland and it very well may end up in the suburbs.  

[smeagolsfree]

On 8/24/2023 at 8:22 AM, KJHburg said:

I am afraid Nashville is being used by the White Sox like Charlotte was with the Brewers to get a new stadium somewhere Chicagoland and it very well may end up in the suburbs.  

I tend to agree.

Talking to William whom you have talked to Kevin, seems to think we have a better shot at an expansion team rather than a relocation due to the fact that the Nashville Stars have such a strong group behind them. The former governor Bill Haslam has also expressed an interest in joining the group, the brother of Jimmy Haslam owner of the Cleveland Browns. He is another billionaire out of Knoxville that owns Flying J truck stops.

There are a lot of other billionaires that are tending to have second or third homes here too. Sometimes we don't even know who is buying some of the condos in the high-rises downtown or renting the apartments. The same goes for Willaimson County as there are a lot of Hollywood types that own second homes there as well. Lots of money floating around the area. 

[smeagolsfree]

Too much talk about Nashville getting an MLB team as here in Bleacher report. I say anyone of these 6 teams mentioned for Nashville which I dare say none of which will come here can go to Charlotte. I still say the organization here will be holding out for an expansion team as any relocation team will HAVE to pony up for a new stadium themselves. It is not going to be a free ride.

All of these are seemingly looking for a new home.

Ranking 6 MLB Teams That Make the Most Sense for Nashville Relocation | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

[smeagolsfree]

Why they are not talking Charlotte is beyond me!

[J-Rob]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Why they are not talking Charlotte is beyond me!

My guess: No ownership group representing Charlotte for expansion; possibly limited funding appetite beyond football/basketball stadium upgrades (to attract relocation).

Edited August 31, 2023 by J-Rob

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 8/18/2023 at 1:05 AM, Crucial_Infra said:

Nashville boosters seem pretty gung-ho about MLB too. Is there enough room for both cities to get a team? Doubtful. If either get it, the other will be on the outside looking in for a long time imo. Look no further than the Triangle and MLS. 

Nashville and Charlotte aren't overlapping cities at all. In fact the Titans moved to Tennessee immediately after the Panthers were an expansion team, and Nashville FC immediately before Charlotte FC. Any speculation that MLB has to have another team out west isn't very well in the loop. 

Salt Lake and Portland are both very soft expansion candidates. Charlotte and Nashville are both outside the Braves exclusive TV zones, while Portland is within the Mariners TV rights zone. The Canadian Dollar is very week and it doesn't seem like there is any appetite in MTL for an ownership group, or a stadium. 

4 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Too much talk about Nashville getting an MLB team as here in Bleacher report. I say anyone of these 6 teams mentioned for Nashville which I dare say none of which will come here can go to Charlotte. I still say the organization here will be holding out for an expansion team as any relocation team will HAVE to pony up for a new stadium themselves. It is not going to be a free ride.

All of these are seemingly looking for a new home.

Ranking 6 MLB Teams That Make the Most Sense for Nashville Relocation | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

Nearly anyone can write a Bleacher report article, I have written numerous over the years. Rob Manfred has repeatedly mentioned Charlotte with Nashville, the difference at this point is a vocal "potential" ownership group, but like we all saw with the RDU MLS "bid", money talks a lot louder than online social media. If the Panthers have a great season, work out a stadium plan, MAYBE Tepper would warm up to a MLB team here, but he has a lot on his plate right now. I could also see him eventually buying his hometown Pirates. 

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:33 AM, kayman said:

The AAA franchise license could be relocated to the Canon Ballers, Honeybadgers, Crawdads, or start up a new AAA MiLB franchise in Rock Hill. 

 

The current MLB Commissioner said Charlotte not Raleigh. He named market size, location being on the NC/SC stateline, already a recognized major pro sports market home to other pro sports as his reasons.  So unless he is fired or replaced, I can bet money he (the current MLB Commissioner) would deny or block it happening in Raleigh.  I just don't see it going to Raleigh happening...

While the Braves have AAA in Gwinnett, the county has over a million people. I would love to see the AAA team for Charlotte to be in Greenville, a great downtown ballpark. AA could be in Kannapolis or Columbia

[smeagolsfree]

I will say Charlotte needs and deserves and team. I know your AAA team is well attended too.

I will say the Sounds games are well attended and they could be moved to Franklin, Murfreesboro, or even Clarksville if we ever got an MLB team. Rutherford County/ Murfreesboro will be pushing a half million in the next 15 years or so and they could support a AAA team. They have gained a little over 100k in the past decade or so and the growth is anticipated to continue at the same rate or even higher.

[HRVT]

4 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

While the Braves have AAA in Gwinnett, the county has over a million people. I would love to see the AAA team for Charlotte to be in Greenville, a great downtown ballpark. AA could be in Kannapolis or Columbia

That's definitely a trickle down effect that potential MLB expansion could have. If theoretically 4 new MLB teams are created, that creates a need for 4 new AAA teams, 4 new AA teams, etc. I'd love to see the Eastern League get a foothold back into NC. Greensboro would be a big contender for a AA club IMO as they have sizeable stadium (7500 or so capacity). If Kannapolis expanded I think they could be one as well considering the proximity to Charlotte (for AA, you generally need a capacity of at least 6000 as there is only one stadium in AA below this point). Perhaps this expansion could be done by adding a second deck beyond the press box, giving it a bit of a similar appearance to a mini-Harbor Park (Norfolk) or even simply build a small structure upwards of a few additional rows from the concourse on each side of that pressbox. In SC, I definitely think Greenville could be a candidate and Fluor Field is plenty big enough at 6700 capacity. 

So theoretically for Charlotte, you could set up something like this:

AAA: Durham

AA: Greensboro

A+: Winston-Salem

A: Carolina Mudcats (Zebulon)

Nashville will in turn probably take some of the Tennessee and/or North/South Carolina MiLB clubs as their own which would re-shuffle some of the displaced affiliates as well (though I could see some of those perhaps being distributed closer to their MLB team). I also wonder if this could open the door for High Point and/or Gastonia to break into A or A+ level baseball.

Edited August 31, 2023 by HRVT

[kermit]

5 minutes ago, HRVT said:

A: Carolina Mudcats (Zebulon)

[The only point I am trying to make here is that I am old]

The first iteration of the Mudcats (nearly 30 years ago) they were NC's only AA team. The charm of that middle of nowhere ballpark was considerably greater back then. Now its the Fedex Field of minor league baseball.

[HRVT]

18 minutes ago, kermit said:

[The only point I am trying to make here is that I am old]

The first iteration of the Mudcats (nearly 30 years ago) they were NC's only AA team. The charm of that middle of nowhere ballpark was considerably greater back then. Now its the Fedex Field of minor league baseball.

Never been to a game there, but it wasn't even THAT long ago they were AA.... about 10 years ago. Looking at pictures online, it reminds me a bit of the pre-renovation Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Stadium meets The Diamond in Richmond (neither are a complement).

Now if NC got back into AA, I would guess it will be the Southern League. The Eastern League's only close-by team is Richmond and IMO the city of Richmond is angling at getting back into AAA with their new stadium (looking to seat 10K fans). After Richmond, the next closest is Bowie up in Maryland. The Southern League team has two teams in Eastern Tennessee with Chattanooga and Kodak (basically Knoxville) which would make additions of Greensboro and Kannapolis actually make some sense since they're both in Central/Western-ish NC. I do think the Raleigh area deserves another team though... I wonder if Cary would/could get a team... even if it's A ball.

[kermit]

On 8/31/2023 at 6:22 PM, HRVT said:

Never been to a game there, but it wasn't even THAT long ago they were AA.... about 10 years ago. Looking at pictures online, it reminds me a bit of the pre-renovation Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Stadium meets The Diamond in Richmond (neither are a complement).

Now if NC got back into AA, I would guess it will be the Southern League. The Eastern League's only close-by team is Richmond and IMO the city of Richmond is angling at getting back into AAA with their new stadium (looking to seat 10K fans). After Richmond, the next closest is Bowie up in Maryland. The Southern League team has two teams in Eastern Tennessee with Chattanooga and Kodak (basically Knoxville) which would make additions of Greensboro and Kannapolis actually make some sense since they're both in Central/Western-ish NC. I do think the Raleigh area deserves another team though... I wonder if Cary would/could get a team... even if it's A ball.

I went to a Chattanooga Lookouts game a month or two ago. It may have been an off night, but the play quality was really atrocious, I have seen much better quality baseball in Kannapolis, Asheville and Greensboro this year. The economics of AA has always puzzeld me, seems like some really long bus rides combined w Single A attendance (but I have been to very few AA games). 

I grew up in Durham and my girlfriend's stepdad was the grounds keeper at DAP (she sold Chipwiches at the ballpark and was in most of the crowd shots in Bull Durham) -- I have lots of fond memories! Anyway, when the first version of the Mudcats came around they had to build the ballpark in Zebulon because everything from Raleigh west was in the Bull's exclusive market area (the Bulls were still in the single A Carolina League at the time). Its been so long that has probably changed, but that is why I always assumed there was no minor-league ball in Raleigh or Cary.

I am not sure how much ownership cares but the Hickory Crawdads have been struggling at the gate (they are right at 2,000 per game this year). There has also been lots of troubling ownership news in Gastonia. The Atlantic League sure is weird baseball, I would love to go to legit Single A games in Gastonia, it would be an excellent Sally League town. 

It sounds like they are about to build a new ballpark in Leland (Wilmington burb in Brunswick County), and the internet says they would likely get the Crawdads or the Wood Ducks if they can find the money for the park. Having said that, I doubt I'll ever make the trip to see baseball in Leland, between the mosquitoes and the sprawl I would find it to be miserable.  Wilmington however is a town that really needs more than summer league baseball, but the city just can't manage to hustle up the money to build a ballpark -- it would be great up north of the PPD building near the river. Rebuilding Buck Hardy in Greenfield would also be a nice site.

Edited September 20, 2023 by kermit