Charlotte MLB Team Speculation

[15895]

 

Charlotte & Triangle aren’t that different in size that I think it matters for MLB support. I mean. Charlotte’s MSA is closer in size to Raleigh+Durham’s MSA’s combined than it is to Minneapolis yet to me it seems CLT & MSP is pretty much the same size. DC & San Fran. Have a similar gap in population and to me they feel the same (if not San Francisco feeling bigger as a city & metro area & broader region)

I don’t think it’s clear Charlotte is the economic center of the Carolina’s if that even matters. I think the I-85 Corridor between Raleigh & Charlotte is is the economic center. 

I don’t think Raleigh has anything to do with Charlotte getting or not getting anything - it’s the rural legislators. (Triangle representatives might actually be some of charlottes strongest Allies) 

I never ever heard anyone in the Triangle jealous of Charlotte. If anything, I just hear them say they’re more like Virginia and that Charlotte is more like South Carolina (not out of disdain for Charlotte but why they like where they live). The Triangle is much more liberal and educated and they seem to look further north for inspiration. But otherwise I haven’t heard much negativity or admiration otherwise. They’re all transplants, Charlotte is full of transplants. I don’t think they’re emotionally invested in each other given the amount of transplants.

Raleigh makes sense. Charlotte makes sense. Maybe Raleigh makes better sense given it has less pro-sports teams and as a result have stronger local support on top of that fact the Triangle would draw the same state-wide & cross border fans as Charlotte so you’re not going to lose a broader support for a Carolina team whether in Raleigh or Charlotte. 

Lastly. Raleigh has nothing to do with why Charlotte hasn’t gotten an MLB team in the last couple of decades it’s been trying. Charlotte can bid or fight for MLB independent of Raleigh. NC supports all sports teams & would easily support either city in pursuit of MLB. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[videtur quam contuor]

NC Art Museum and several other museums, the state universities in the triangle and their many special public amenities such as the NC State Arboretum, Morehead planetarium, college sporting events and arenas, and so many more. All because the choice of capital of the state came down to the location of Isaac Hunter's tavern and his famous "Cherry Bounce" with aged cherries and brown liquor.*

*https://www.greatraleightrolley.com/history-lessons/2019/9/24/cherry-bounce

[kayman]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

Charlotte & Triangle aren’t that different in size that I think it matters for MLB support. I mean. Charlotte’s MSA is closer in size to Raleigh+Durham’s MSA’s combined than it is to Minneapolis yet to me it seems CLT & MSP is pretty much the same size. DC & San Fran. Have a similar gap in population and to me they feel the same (if not San Francisco feeling bigger as a city & metro area & broader region)

I don’t think it’s clear Charlotte is the economic center of the Carolina’s if that even matters. I think the I-85 Corridor between Raleigh & Charlotte is is the economic center. 

I don’t think Raleigh has anything to do with Charlotte getting or not getting anything - it’s the rural legislators. (Triangle representatives might actually be some of charlottes strongest Allies) 

I never ever heard anyone in the Triangle jealous of Charlotte. If anything, I just hear them say they’re more like Virginia and that Charlotte is more like South Carolina (not out of disdain for Charlotte but why they like where they live). The Triangle is much more liberal and educated and they seem to look further north for inspiration. But otherwise I haven’t heard much negativity or admiration otherwise. They’re all transplants, Charlotte is full of transplants. I don’t think they’re emotionally invested in each other given the amount of transplants.

Raleigh makes sense. Charlotte makes sense. Maybe Raleigh makes better sense given it has less pro-sports teams and as a result have stronger local support on top of that fact the Triangle would draw the same state-wide & cross border fans as Charlotte so you’re not going to lose a broader support for a Carolina team whether in Raleigh or Charlotte. 

Lastly. Raleigh has nothing to do with why Charlotte hasn’t gotten an MLB team in the last couple of decades it’s been trying. Charlotte can bid or fight for MLB independent of Raleigh. NC supports all sports teams & would easily support either city in pursuit of MLB. 

That's not how pro sports selection works. It's about location, socioeconomic, demographics, population, and market area size due to advertising revenue reach.  Also, highly competitive local college sport programs tend to most of revenue potential oxygen out of the room in similar college sports markets like the Triangle. 

I'm a relatively new transplant of NC, I saw from jump that there has been a hidden agenda to downplay Charlotte in lieu of Raleigh.  The petty nickname the "Great State of Mecklenburg" didn't come about for nothing because there has always been tepid support of Charlotte. I'm not naive nor unaware of that par ticular bias even when I spent time in the Triangle in the early 2010s.  I could go on how local impact fees are allowed in the 3 Triangle core counties but not in the Charlotte core counties, or the outright ban until 2021 of any local non-discrimation ordinances because of Charlotte passage of one in 2017,  but those are non-sequiturs. However, there is more proof to me of the anti-Charlotte bias does exist than not in this state...

You might not see it because you're from here, a white male, & now in the DMV, but Charlotte seen by way more people from elsewhere as the destination of both Carolinas.  Raleigh and the Triangle might have been that way more liberal in the past until the late 2000s/early 2010s, but Charlotte is become way more liberal and more racially diverse with upwardly mobile non-white people than the Triangle in 2023.  As black queer person, I don't hear my demographic peers i.e., other upwardly economically black queer folks, in other places talking about the Triangle or Raleigh as "the next move" in 2023 but they are definitely talking about Charlotte... I also have other educated friends of various other racial backgrounds in other places who have said they knew of Charlotte prior to my relocation because of the CLT airport, the sport teams, the 2012 DNC, global financial hub, and other industries here.
 

[Professor]

I am a white male, what are trying to say? Is there a point somewhere

Edited October 4, 2023 by Larry Singer

[15895]

49 minutes ago, Larry Singer said:

I am a white male, what are trying to say? Is there a point somewhere

Lol. For some reason your commentary amuses me. I don’t intend that to sound snarky, it just randomly catches me off guard lol. 

2 hours ago, kayman said:

That's not how pro sports selection works. It's about location, socioeconomic, demographics, population, and market area size due to advertising revenue reach.  Also, highly competitive local college sport programs tend to most of revenue potential oxygen out of the room in similar college sports markets like the Triangle. 

I'm a relatively new transplant of NC, I saw from jump that there has been a hidden agenda to downplay Charlotte in lieu of Raleigh.  The petty nickname the "Great State of Mecklenburg" didn't come about for nothing because there has always been tepid support of Charlotte. I'm not naive nor unaware of that par ticular bias even when I spent time in the Triangle in the early 2010s.  I could go on how local impact fees are allowed in the 3 Triangle core counties but not in the Charlotte core counties, or the outright ban until 2021 of any local non-discrimation ordinances because of Charlotte passage of one in 2017,  but those are non-sequiturs. However, there is more proof to me of the anti-Charlotte bias does exist than not in this state...

You might not see it because you're from here, a white male, & now in the DMV, but Charlotte seen by way more people from elsewhere as the destination of both Carolinas.  Raleigh and the Triangle might have been that way more liberal in the past until the late 2000s/early 2010s, but Charlotte is become way more liberal and more racially diverse with upwardly mobile non-white people than the Triangle in 2023.  As black queer person, I don't hear my demographic peers i.e., other upwardly economically black queer folks, in other places talking about the Triangle or Raleigh as "the next move" in 2023 but they are definitely talking about Charlotte... I also have other educated friends of various other racial backgrounds in other places who have said they knew of Charlotte prior to my relocation because of the CLT airport, the sport teams, the 2012 DNC, global financial hub, and other industries here.
 

Technically my race is white. But I’m Latino, multi-lingual (Portugues, English, Spanish) and I identify as Latino. Not as a “white Guy”. 

I think the Triangle is a worthy market, and if they are, they’ll get one. I think Charlotte is a worthy market. 
 

MLB has felt imminent in the past then now. I mean the Knights Stadium was years delayed and almost canceled through court battles because the owner wanted the stadium to be built to convert to MLB. It wasn’t built to be able to convert. So. MLB coming to Charlotte for me is no longer a shiny object  after sooo many years and more of a “if it comes it comes.”  I think both CLT & Triangle make sense,

But my perspective isn’t because I now live in Washington… Look. There’s several things as a native that is elusive:

- Levine’s First Ward Plans (literally now decades ago plans were more imminent. The buildings around Romare Park were supposed to go in first ward. “Twelve” Hotels was the hotel brand chosen. But Levine drug its feet, they went over to 3rd ward (catalyst, the other apartment which was gonna be a hotel, Ally building)

- Brooklyn Village. Decades of imminent plans 

- MLB Team 

- Brevard Street Stroll District (this came up recently again but was a bigger deal when NASCAR was being built) 

- Gateway Station. This one surely has to be marked off the list soon. But again, even without railroad tracks in the past it felt more imminent, Hines was the developer and start dates were announced with detailed renderings. 
 

Some of these things have been multiple decades. 20 years ago people were complaining about Levine dragging feet in 1st ward… So far, the city made a park, UNCC has a building. He sold off a lot and they built apartments. Levine basically build an unfinished parking deck… That’s why I have the attitude “if it comes, it comes”.

The Triangle is more liberal than Metrolina. Gaston County, etc is a lot more red than the counties in Triangle. Mecklenburg is the only county in metrolina that goes blue. And Mecklenburg itself isn’t liberal so much as it has Democratic Black voters who are more socially conservative. White voters in Meck are more country club prudent business folk republicans. Triangle is more academia White libs. 
 

But my point is. The Triangle… if anything, they’re friends of Meck. There’s a large difference between State Government and local Triangle government. If the Triangle didn’t exist or if it was a podunk capital. Mecklenburg and Charlotte would be worse off politically… 

Edited October 4, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

The fact that Raleigh Durham has one pro team the Carolina Hurricanes makes it less saturated with pro sports than Charlotte with the Panthers, the Hornets and FC Charlotte.  It is fast growing even faster growing than the Charlotte metro and their tv market is just slightly smaller than ours.   (due to the Fayetteville metro being apart of their TV market)    There just does not seem to an appetite for MLB now in Charlotte with potential billion dollar stadium renovations for the Panthers in the near future.  I would be very happy if the MLB came to NC even in Raleigh.  Raleigh may  want it more to raise their national profile something Charlotte already has done with the Hornets and Panthers.  The choice for MLB in the Carolinas is either Charlotte or Raleigh Durham.  One has 3 major pro sports teams the other has 1.    As for sponsors and I hear that a lot they have big companies based there and some are quite rich  too.  Like SAS in Cary, Martin Marietta, Advance Auto,  and lots of other potentail sponsors like tech firms based locally like Epic Games, or Red Hat the IBM subsidiary maybe even Apple which is building a huge outpost there.  Big companies based in Charlotte would be supportive too like Bank of America that does a lot of business in the Triangle as well.  Maybe Raleigh based First Citizens Bank would step up too.  Tech company Bandwidth.  

I am sorry I don't buy into Charlotte or nothing.  I pro North Carolinian and want our state to thrive no matter where one lives.  And I know of people in Charlotte who travel to Raleigh to see the Hurricanes.  Plenty of Hornets and Panthers fans in the Triangle I know I have seen their support.  Dittos for the Triad.  

The Triangle has one of the most successful minor league baseball teams already in the Durham Bulls.  Cary is home to the USA Baseball National Training Center.  National Training Complex | USA Baseball

NC has a huge concentration of Minor league baseball teams and it would be great to see those called up playing in the big leagues right here in NC.  But the question for both cities would be how would a stadium being financed, ownership, and demographics.  I am just saying the Triangle is as good as the Charlotte region.  

 

[sclark]

Well said @KJHburg

[kermit]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

MLB has felt imminent in the past then now. I mean the Knights Stadium was years delayed and almost canceled through court battles because the owner wanted the stadium to be built to convert to MLB. It wasn’t built to be able to convert. So. MLB coming to Charlotte for me is no longer a shiny object  after sooo many years and more of a “if it comes it comes.”  I think both CLT & Triangle make sense

Just a nit pick. The lawsuits about the expandability of the stadium were not from the owner, they were filed by some random dude (Jerry Reese).

https://ballparkdigest.com/201203284652/minor-league-baseball/features/reese-returns-with-another-anti-knights-lawsuit

Edited October 4, 2023 by kermit

[15895]

5 minutes ago, kermit said:

Just a nit pick. The lawsuits about the expandability of the stadium were not from the owner, they were just filed by some random dude (Jerry Reese).

https://ballparkdigest.com/201203284652/minor-league I’m-baseball/features/reese-returns-with-another-anti-knights-lawsuit

Thanks - I didn’t realize Jerry Reese was random. That’s crazy. 
 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[DonkeyKong]

44 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

The fact that Raleigh Durham has one pro team the Carolina Hurricanes makes it less saturated with pro sports than Charlotte with the Panthers, the Hornets and FC Charlotte.  It is fast growing even faster growing than the Charlotte metro and their tv market is just slightly smaller than ours.   (due to the Fayetteville metro being apart of their TV market)    There just does not seem to an appetite for MLB now in Charlotte with potential billion dollar stadium renovations for the Panthers in the near future.  I would be very happy if the MLB came to NC even in Raleigh.  Raleigh may  want it more to raise their national profile something Charlotte already has done with the Hornets and Panthers.  The choice for MLB in the Carolinas is either Charlotte or Raleigh Durham.  One has 3 major pro sports teams the other has 1.    As for sponsors and I hear that a lot they have big companies based there and some are quite rich  too.  Like SAS in Cary, Martin Marietta, Advance Auto,  and lots of other potentail sponsors like tech firms based locally like Epic Games, or Red Hat the IBM subsidiary maybe even Apple which is building a huge outpost there.  Big companies based in Charlotte would be supportive too like Bank of America that does a lot of business in the Triangle as well.  Maybe Raleigh based First Citizens Bank would step up too.  Tech company Bandwidth.  

I am sorry I don't buy into Charlotte or nothing.  I pro North Carolinian and want our state to thrive no matter where one lives.  And I know of people in Charlotte who travel to Raleigh to see the Hurricanes.  Plenty of Hornets and Panthers fans in the Triangle I know I have seen their support.  Dittos for the Triad.  

The Triangle has one of the most successful minor league baseball teams already in the Durham Bulls.  Cary is home to the USA Baseball National Training Center.  National Training Complex | USA Baseball

NC has a huge concentration of Minor league baseball teams and it would be great to see those called up playing in the big leagues right here in NC.  But the question for both cities would be how would a stadium being financed, ownership, and demographics.  I am just saying the Triangle is as good as the Charlotte region.  

 

Charlotte is more centrally located  to population centers than Raleigh.   Easy drive to CLT from Asheville, Greenville, Columbia, Hickory, High Point, Winston Salem, Greensboro,  Boone, Raleigh .

Edited October 4, 2023 by DonkeyKong

[Professor]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Lol. For some reason your commentary amuses me. I don’t intend that to sound snarky, it just randomly catches me off guard lol. 

Technically my race is white. But I’m Latino, multi-lingual (Portugues, English, Spanish) and I identify as Latino. Not as a “white Guy”. 

I think the Triangle is a worthy market, and if they are, they’ll get one. I think Charlotte is a worthy market. 
 

MLB has felt imminent in the past then now. I mean the Knights Stadium was years delayed and almost canceled through court battles because the owner wanted the stadium to be built to convert to MLB. It wasn’t built to be able to convert. So. MLB coming to Charlotte for me is no longer a shiny object  after sooo many years and more of a “if it comes it comes.”  I think both CLT & Triangle make sense,

But my perspective isn’t because I now live in Washington… Look. There’s several things as a native that is elusive:

- Levine’s First Ward Plans (literally now decades ago plans were more imminent. The buildings around Romare Park were supposed to go in first ward. “Twelve” Hotels was the hotel brand chosen. But Levine drug its feet, they went over to 3rd ward (catalyst, the other apartment which was gonna be a hotel, Ally building)

- Brooklyn Village. Decades of imminent plans 

- MLB Team 

- Brevard Street Stroll District (this came up recently again but was a bigger deal when NASCAR was being built) 

- Gateway Station. This one surely has to be marked off the list soon. But again, even without railroad tracks in the past it felt more imminent, Hines was the developer and start dates were announced with detailed renderings. 
 

Some of these things have been multiple decades. 20 years ago people were complaining about Levine dragging feet in 1st ward… So far, the city made a park, UNCC has a building. He sold off a lot and they built apartments. Levine basically build an unfinished parking deck… That’s why I have the attitude “if it comes, it comes”.

The Triangle is more liberal than Metrolina. Gaston County, etc is a lot more red than the counties in Triangle. Mecklenburg is the only county in metrolina that goes blue. And Mecklenburg itself isn’t liberal so much as it has Democratic Black voters who are more socially conservative. White voters in Meck are more country club prudent business folk republicans. Triangle is more academia White libs. 
 

But my point is. The Triangle… if anything, they’re friends of Meck. There’s a large difference between State Government and local Triangle government. If the Triangle didn’t exist or if it was a podunk capital. Mecklenburg and Charlotte would be worse off politically… 

 I was responding to Kayman's reference to readers being  white. I didn't understand what being white had to do with his confusing article. 

[kayman]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Lol. For some reason your commentary amuses me. I don’t intend that to sound snarky, it just randomly catches me off guard lol. 

Technically my race is white. But I’m Latino, multi-lingual (Portugues, English, Spanish) and I identify as Latino. Not as a “white Guy”. 

I think the Triangle is a worthy market, and if they are, they’ll get one. I think Charlotte is a worthy market. 
 

MLB has felt imminent in the past then now. I mean the Knights Stadium was years delayed and almost canceled through court battles because the owner wanted the stadium to be built to convert to MLB. It wasn’t built to be able to convert. So. MLB coming to Charlotte for me is no longer a shiny object  after sooo many years and more of a “if it comes it comes.”  I think both CLT & Triangle make sense,

But my perspective isn’t because I now live in Washington… Look. There’s several things as a native that is elusive:

- Levine’s First Ward Plans (literally now decades ago plans were more imminent. The buildings around Romare Park were supposed to go in first ward. “Twelve” Hotels was the hotel brand chosen. But Levine drug its feet, they went over to 3rd ward (catalyst, the other apartment which was gonna be a hotel, Ally building)

- Brooklyn Village. Decades of imminent plans 

- MLB Team 

- Brevard Street Stroll District (this came up recently again but was a bigger deal when NASCAR was being built) 

- Gateway Station. This one surely has to be marked off the list soon. But again, even without railroad tracks in the past it felt more imminent, Hines was the developer and start dates were announced with detailed renderings. 
 

Some of these things have been multiple decades. 20 years ago people were complaining about Levine dragging feet in 1st ward… So far, the city made a park, UNCC has a building. He sold off a lot and they built apartments. Levine basically build an unfinished parking deck… That’s why I have the attitude “if it comes, it comes”.

The Triangle is more liberal than Metrolina. Gaston County, etc is a lot more red than the counties in Triangle. Mecklenburg is the only county in metrolina that goes blue. And Mecklenburg itself isn’t liberal so much as it has Democratic Black voters who are more socially conservative. White voters in Meck are more country club prudent business folk republicans. Triangle is more academia White libs. 
 

But my point is. The Triangle… if anything, they’re friends of Meck. There’s a large difference between State Government and local Triangle government. If the Triangle didn’t exist or if it was a podunk capital. Mecklenburg and Charlotte would be worse off politically… 

Regardless, Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity but not race.  I just identify as black although I'm technically multiracial myself, but will always be seen as black. 

You just made an uninformed assumption about black people in Charlotte in 2023. Actually, as black (queer) person in Mecklenburg County, most black folks are not more socially conservative at all.  Honestly, the vast majority of black people just don't vote regularly at all. When we do vote it's for a candidate who campaigns beyond 2-3 months before an election, values and recognizes our interests of black folks with their platform. Cabarrus and Gaston counties are purple but the black in Gaston & (black & mostly Afro-Latino recent transplants in Cabarrus in particular) to those locales just don't vote so that is why it looks more red than it really is. 

Sorry, but most black voters vote towards the forward progression of racial equity & fairness for ourselves which is way more nuance and pragmatic than that be the myopic social conservative notion.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by kayman

[CLT2014]

This thread got so off the rails... Charlotte needs a prospective billionaire owner with the motivation to get a team here to emerge. That's the biggest missing ingredient. Market sizes, racial demographics, who is blue versus red, et.... are all gonna fall behind the most critical thing.... a crazy rich billionaire or club of billionaires that are all in on Charlotte for MLB. That's how we fast tracked on MLS.... we had a billionaire. All roads require a rich guy or gal!

[15895]

7 hours ago, kayman said:

Regardless, Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity but not race.  I just identify as black although I'm technically multiracial myself, but will always be seen as black. 

You just made an uninformed assumption about black people in Charlotte in 2023. Actually, as black (queer) person in Mecklenburg County, most black folks are not more socially conservative at all.  Honestly, the vast majority of black people just don't vote regularly at all. When we do vote it's for a candidate who campaigns beyond 2-3 months before an election, values and recognizes our interests of black folks with their platform. Cabarrus and Gaston counties are purple but the black in Gaston & (black & mostly Afro-Latino recent transplants in Cabarrus in particular) to those locales just don't vote so that is why it looks more red than it really is. 

Sorry, but most black voters vote towards the forward progression of racial equity & fairness for ourselves which is way more nuance and pragmatic than that be the myopic social conservative notion.

 

 

I’m not even sure why my racial/ethnic/national identity is brought up but I rather not discuss it and I do find it offensive and insulting your comments about Latinos and I just rather not explain why. 

& Im gay too, I just didn’t feel the need to say it. But since you mentioned it twice…

 Chatham, Orange & Durham have been voting blue for ages even when Meck & Wake went red in 2000…. Cabarrus & Gaston didn’t even go blue when Obama Carried NC (both had less than 41% votes for Obama). In 2020, Gaston went even more red giving Biden less than 36% / Cabarrus 44%.

Wake voted 1% more for Biden than Mecklenburg did (62%). Durham was 80% Biden. Chatham 55% Biden. Orange 75% Biden. Gaston 35% Biden. Cabarrus 45% Biden. Union 38% Biden. Nash 50% Biden.  And Chatham & Orange are whiter than Cabarrus & the same as Gaston, Nash is only 38% black. I don’t think it’s opinion that the triangle is more liberal leaning than Metrolina but feel free to choose what you wish to believe. 
 

Edited October 5, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[Crucial_Infra]

I’m a longtime Triangle resident and will be rooting hard for Charlotte because frankly the Raleigh skyline is not worthy of MLB and will be an embarrassment for North Carolina.

/somewhat tongue in cheek 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Crucial_Infra

[Take2]

14 hours ago, kayman said:

Cabarrus and Gaston counties are purple but the black in Gaston & (black & mostly Afro-Latino recent transplants in Cabarrus in particular) to those locales just don't vote so that is why it looks more red than it really is. 

I think Gaston is a solid red county but living in Concord I can say with confidence that Cabarrus County is solid Purple and wouldn't surprise me if it flips blue in 2024 depending on how heated the race gets.. and definitely will flip blue in 2028 regardless.  

 

People vote here regardless of race and Cabarrus County is by far the most liberal County in the metro outside of Mecklenburg.  

[hinsp0]

I find this thread highly entertaining, but I’m just a slightly over 40 cis-gender white male who’s genetic test hear map says I come from the East Anglia region of England, so I probably don’t know anything about anything these days, including how to find the blue font on my iPhone to highlight the obvious sarcasm in this post.  Nevertheless, my family and I do love some baseball, and I grew up a huge O’s fan on account of a grandfather outside of Baltimore. It’s now Divisional Playoff time, and I’ll make some time to tune in when I’m not watching my kids play baseball in the South Park Youth Association.  Let’s go O’s!  I’ll even throw in a little Seattle so you can all see that I’m not a hater.  
 

[KJHburg]

the politics and race discussion has no place in this discussion of bringing a major league baseball team to this area or this state.  Take it somewhere else.  

[Professor]

16 hours ago, kayman said:

Regardless, Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity but not race.  I just identify as black although I'm technically multiracial myself, but will always be seen as black. 

You just made an uninformed assumption about black people in Charlotte in 2023. Actually, as black (queer) person in Mecklenburg County, most black folks are not more socially conservative at all.  Honestly, the vast majority of black people just don't vote regularly at all. When we do vote it's for a candidate who campaigns beyond 2-3 months before an election, values and recognizes our interests of black folks with their platform. Cabarrus and Gaston counties are purple but the black in Gaston & (black & mostly Afro-Latino recent transplants in Cabarrus in particular) to those locales just don't vote so that is why it looks more red than it really is. 

Sorry, but most black voters vote towards the forward progression of racial equity & fairness for ourselves which is way more nuance and pragmatic than that be the myopic social conservative notion.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Larry Singer
I could be banned for speaking the truth.

[HRVT]

1 hour ago, Larry Singer said:

 

You wont get banned for talking crap about the Rays....

You WERE talking about BASEBALL in this thread about BASEBALL right?

[carolinaboy]

17 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

This thread got so off the rails... Charlotte needs a prospective billionaire owner with the motivation to get a team here to emerge. That's the biggest missing ingredient. Market sizes, racial demographics, who is blue versus red, et.... are all gonna fall behind the most critical thing.... a crazy rich billionaire or club of billionaires that are all in on Charlotte for MLB. That's how we fast tracked on MLS.... we had a billionaire. All roads require a rich guy or gal!

Yep. In the end it comes down to who is going to buy the franchise and where they want to put it. It may be a local Raleigh/Durham/Triangle native that can purchase a franchise. The statistics may show Charlotte would be "better" but they're from Raleigh and that's where they want to put it so they do. It might be a group of investors from New York that buy a franchise and put it in Charlotte rather than Raleigh because Charlotte ticked more boxes. Either way, a MLB team anywhere in North Carolina would be a literal home run in my opinion.

[kermit]

6 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

Yep. In the end it comes down to who is going to buy the franchise and where they want to put it. It may be a local Raleigh/Durham/Triangle native that can purchase a franchise. The statistics may show Charlotte would be "better" but they're from Raleigh and that's where they want to put it so they do. It might be a group of investors from New York that buy a franchise and put it in Charlotte rather than Raleigh because Charlotte ticked more boxes. Either way, a MLB team anywhere in North Carolina would be a literal home run in my opinion.

If I am an out of town investor, I would look at the Triangle and not see any compelling ballpark sites, the lack of transit will make urban sites tough to pull off, and most suburban sites are going to fall victim to the 'its not my city' disease for 2/3 of the Triangle.  Other than the Braves, new ballparks have been most appealing in urban areas, Charlotte has a good number of compelling sites, I see very few of these in Raleigh, and only one in Durham (which I think is getting built out now). 

[J-Rob]

1 hour ago, carolinaboy said:

Either way, a MLB team anywhere in North Carolina would be a literal home run in my opinion.

This is true, but Charlotte would be a grand slam.

LOL.

All heated conversation aside, I get having a team in NC would a win, but I think it is ok to prefer one city to the other (and have an opinion that one city would be more prominent and successful than the other).

If Charlotte doesn't have an owner or stadium lined up, then by all means, put the team in Raleigh and I will be the first to buy gear.  In a vacuum, I still think Charlotte makes more sense. 

(Not to beat a dead horse - I mainly just commented again for the grand slam wordplay)

Edited October 5, 2023 by J-Rob

[Crucial_Infra]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

If I am an out of town investor, I would look at the Triangle and not see any compelling ballpark sites, the lack of transit will make urban sites tough to pull off, and most suburban sites are going to fall victim to the 'its not my city' disease for 2/3 of the Triangle.  Other than the Braves, new ballparks have been most appealing in urban areas, Charlotte has a good number of compelling sites, I see very few of these in Raleigh, and only one in Durham (which I think is getting built out now). 

This is a good point about ballpark sites. I personally think it needs to be in or near the urban core of the largest city in the Triangle which is Raleigh.  However, because Raleigh is not centrally located in the Triangle region, it will have trouble drawing from the western Triange which then limits your market somewhat. 
 

Charlotte, OTOH, is a classic hub and spoke set-up and is the core city in the metro making it easily accessible from all directions. if only there was someway to expand the Truist by blowing up the Circa apartments and trenching Graham Street under the stadium. 

[kermit]

20 hours ago, Crucial_Infra said:

This is a good point about ballpark sites. I personally think it needs to be in or near the urban core of the largest city in the Triangle which is Raleigh.  However, because Raleigh is not centrally located in the Triangle region, it will have trouble drawing from the western Triange which then limits your market somewhat.

Yea, this. I grew up in Durham and can say that it is exceedingly rare that people travel for recreation between Durham and Raleigh. It happens, but not as much as the unified metro label suggests it does. A ballpark site in the middle would be wholly uninspiring to both Durham and Raleigh residents. Its only a place to go to if you work in RTP, need to go to the airport or have a special occasion dinner at the Angus Barn. The view of pine trees over the outfield fence would also be blah...

I just looked. It is basically the same distance from downtown Durham to downtowm Raleigh as it is from downtown Tampa to St. Pete to see the Rays. That gap has been a serious issue for Ray’s attendance.

It would be interesting to see how much of the Canes fanbase comes from Durham. College sports in the area really cemented the local biases that exist in the Triangle. It ain't one city!

Edited October 6, 2023 by kermit