Charlotte MLB Team Speculation

[smeagolsfree]

I work in the media industry, and we are also hearing that the KC Royals are considering a move. Nashville popped up as someone contacted us to do an interview. I did not want to do the interview and the other folks did not either but add that to the growing number of teams that are searching for a new home. Unsure if this was a rumor or speculation from someone in KC or not.

[DMann]

KC wants to build a new downtown ballpark in Kansas City.  The Chiefs want to take over the area where the Royals play to build out an Atlanta like complex with indoor practice field and a boat load of amenities.  I think the Nashville rumor is just to stoke fear in KC.

[kermit]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

I work in the media industry, and we are also hearing that the KC Royals are considering a move. Nashville popped up as someone contacted us to do an interview. I did not want to do the interview and the other folks did not either but add that to the growing number of teams that are searching for a new home. Unsure if this was a rumor or speculation from someone in KC or not.

The Royals moving is just bluster at this point. Next week (ish) KC residents will vote on a 1/3 cent sales tax increment for stadium funds for both the Royals and the Chiefs. Any talk of moving before that vote is nothing more than political storytelling. Should the tax be voted down (and there has been a surprising amount of pushback), the relocation talk will become real, however I doubt the Royals would be able to realistically threaten to move without several more years of stadium funding debates locally.

At a more macro scale, if the KC stadium funding vote fails, I think that would signal that we are at the end of the era of substantial public funding for stadiums. Pushback against the ‘billionaire subsidies’ have  grown substantially. Cities at the top of the hierarchy have largely shut off the taxpayer tap (see Chicago and northern Virginia). If small market cities (like KC) end this welfare system then I think public funds for ballparks are truly dead. Not sure what such a change would do to team mobility.

Edited March 22 by kermit

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Happy opening weekend!

Interesting article about possible expansion cities:

https://www.wcnc.com/article/sports/baseball/scouting-charlottes-competition-for-a-mlb-expansion-team/275-29582e60-834a-44e3-96c1-c2d9a53ec225?fbclid=PAAaZbDlNCR8qasjh-T99mrOwSuQsiFOWqa6ktNUGCmCdz_qUvzqsfP4o95cY_aem_Acu-9thOKy1dOTTQYaHG5c6OQ8jr1PP8EiZFZ6hHjx1pgk7C2laD-LLynyA3id3f6uM

 

[smeagolsfree]

Looking at this is interesting and the one thing I will say is that NC will get one team but not two. If a team locates to NC, it will be Charlotte or Raleigh but not both, because the markets are too close together which automatically increases the chances of a team in Nashville where there is a large American League hole. The talk all along is when Nashville gets a team it will be an AL team and I suspect the same will be true for NC due to the distance to Atlanta. 

Nashville is even closer to the Reds which is another NL team and the Cardinals. The drive time is only 4 to 5 hours between those cities from Nashville and three and half to Atlanta, so we are in the middle of NL hell.

I think Charlotte would benefit as well from an AL team as it encourages overnight stays in your hotels the same as Nashville. You do not want the visiting teams to be within driving distance.

[kayman]

On 3/29/2024 at 4:33 PM, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Happy opening weekend!

Interesting article about possible expansion cities:

https://www.wcnc.com/article/sports/baseball/scouting-charlottes-competition-for-a-mlb-expansion-team/275-29582e60-834a-44e3-96c1-c2d9a53ec225?fbclid=PAAaZbDlNCR8qasjh-T99mrOwSuQsiFOWqa6ktNUGCmCdz_qUvzqsfP4o95cY_aem_Acu-9thOKy1dOTTQYaHG5c6OQ8jr1PP8EiZFZ6hHjx1pgk7C2laD-LLynyA3id3f6uM

 

I recall seeing this story by incident on WCNC live on Thursday.  Stories like this lend to the notion that Charlotte will likely be the location of the MLB expansion that will come to the Carolinas.  Like they said in the story, Charlotte has more density of development and regional attractions along with a concentrated population around its urban core called "Charlotte City Center" that lends to what the MLB likes.   Also, Charlotte will likely be in the Nielsen top 20 in the next 2 years of DMA rankings.  Finally, the regional sporting venues show the city's ability to host major sports tournaments from professional golf, neutral site college football and basketball games, and 3 other major league franchise games also tips the hat in Charlotte's favor.  

[kermit]

On 3/22/2024 at 9:26 AM, kermit said:

The Royals moving is just bluster at this point. Next week (ish) KC residents will vote on a 1/3 cent sales tax increment for stadium funds for both the Royals and the Chiefs. Any talk of moving before that vote is nothing more than political storytelling. Should the tax be voted down (and there has been a surprising amount of pushback), the relocation talk will become real, however I doubt the Royals would be able to realistically threaten to move without several more years of stadium funding debates locally.

At a more macro scale, if the KC stadium funding vote fails, I think that would signal that we are at the end of the era of substantial public funding for stadiums. Pushback against the ‘billionaire subsidies’ have  grown substantially. Cities at the top of the hierarchy have largely shut off the taxpayer tap (see Chicago and northern Virginia). If small market cities (like KC) end this welfare system then I think public funds for ballparks are truly dead. Not sure what such a change would do to team mobility.

Sounds like Kansas City voters decided not to support a sales tax to fund two new stadiums (one for the current Super Bowl champion no less). So...

1) The Royals are going to talk a bunch about moving (this does not mean leaving is a done deal, ownership said they will try again for KC funds)

2) Public subsidies for stadiums just got a whole lot tougher for owners to get. Now that even small markets like KC are voting against spending this money its going to get much harder for owners to extort new stadium funds from their current homes using the threat of moving.

Edited April 3 by kermit

[jthomas]

Good for Kansas City. The financials on that deal were horrible for the community.

[DMann]

Surprising!

[smeagolsfree]

We did our stadium deal without a vote thank goodness. Actually, our soccer stadium and our new NFL stadium both were council votes only. Our transit plan which is BRT only will be a half of a percent on the sales tax and is likely to pass according to the polls. So, I think voters can be swayed if a plan is good.

The deal here for an MLB stadium is no public funds will go towards a stadium. It will all have to be private, or the state will have to kick in. For some reason the state does not seem to have an issue throwing money into the pot here. They threw a half of billion into the new Titans stadium and are putting another half billion towards the new Performing arts center on the East Bank as well. I think the war between Nashville and the state is over now that we have a new mayor. They are also putting another 1/2 billion into drawing new international flights at BNA.

So, if Nashville gets an MLB team, more than likely it will go at the TSU campus where the state will give them free land. Not a great location, but anywhere around downtown is not going to be cheap land as the bare minimum is 10-20 million an acre.

[kermit]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:03 PM, kermit said:

Sounds like Kansas City voters decided not to support a sales tax to fund two new stadiums (one for the current Super Bowl champion no less). So...

1) The Royals are going to talk a bunch about moving (this does not mean leaving is a done deal, ownership said they will try again for KC funds)

2) Public subsidies for stadiums just got a whole lot tougher for owners to get. Now that even small markets like KC are voting against spending this money its going to get much harder for owners to extort new stadium funds from their current homes using the threat of moving.

Here is an indication that even Las Vegas voters are going to say no to public money for the A's stadium. (sample size of the poll was only 500 people however)

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/poll-more-than-half-of-las-vegas-voters-oppose-public-funding-for-new-as-stadium/

 

[KJHburg]

On 4/5/2024 at 10:05 AM, smeagolsfree said:

We did our stadium deal without a vote thank goodness. Actually, our soccer stadium and our new NFL stadium both were council votes only. Our transit plan which is BRT only will be a half of a percent on the sales tax and is likely to pass according to the polls. So, I think voters can be swayed if a plan is good.

The deal here for an MLB stadium is no public funds will go towards a stadium. It will all have to be private, or the state will have to kick in. For some reason the state does not seem to have an issue throwing money into the pot here. They threw a half of billion into the new Titans stadium and are putting another half billion towards the new Performing arts center on the East Bank as well. I think the war between Nashville and the state is over now that we have a new mayor. They are also putting another 1/2 billion into drawing new international flights at BNA.

So, if Nashville gets an MLB team, more than likely it will go at the TSU campus where the state will give them free land. Not a great location, but anywhere around downtown is not going to be cheap land as the bare minimum is 10-20 million an acre.

I sure wish the state of Tennessee would pay some attention to Memphis once a rival to Nashville but no more as Nashville has zoomed by it.  The state of affairs there is terrible.  

But even if the state gives some free land for a MLB team won't they want the city of Nashville to chip in greatly as was done with the new Titans stadium? 

[joenc]

What is Nashville's economic profile? They just have better PR than Charlotte. I see things like 'Nashville is emerging as a national economic powerhouse, Barron's reports' and they reference investment by Meta Platforms... it's a data center. The Amazon office is back-office logistics stuff not highly paid software engineering. I know this isn't a Nashville vs Charlotte thread...

[smeagolsfree]

4 hours ago, joenc said:

What is Nashville's economic profile? They just have better PR than Charlotte. I see things like 'Nashville is emerging as a national economic powerhouse, Barron's reports' and they reference investment by Meta Platforms... it's a data center. The Amazon office is back-office logistics stuff not highly paid software engineering. I know this isn't a Nashville vs Charlotte thread...

Home sales starting to pick up again with median home prices at 504k. 
It does seem things are starting to heat back up here. As far as the residential market this is what is happening as far as high-rise projects. The below list was compiled by moderator Markhollin.

 

We just wrapped-up the first quarter of 2024, and while things have been slower than in recent years, there has still been a fair amount of activity:
Numerous projects in the 4 to 6 story range either topped, started, or about to start with many more approved or on the boards. 
Even with 30,000 units under construction or in the pipeline the overall vacancy rate is 7%.

The Oracle Campus is still full steam ahead with Oracle making about 5,000 hires out of the I think 12,000 they are supposed to hire. It could be 8300. I can’t remember how many total. Amazon is still saying they are committed to more hires in Nashville as well as more data centers from other companies. The auto industry is full steam ahead with 1000’s of hires in the EV industry. I am on the fence there. 
the overall unemployment rate for the Metro is 2.2%. All I know is there are now hiring signs up everywhere. All of the colleges are doing major expansion projects.

Metro is planning a vote on a BRT heavy transit plan and it is getting high marks so far. It will have about 30 miles of dedicated BRT lines coming into the downtown area. The airport is breaking records every month. 
 

The MLB group is very organized and will probably have heavy financing when and if a team is announced. They are very secretive as far as finances but not as far as organization and they do have heavy hitters involved already.
Construction underway since turn of year:

1010 Church (60 stories)
1711 Broadway (21)
Titans Domed Stadium (15)
Motto Hotel (13)
 

Construction to get underway this year:

Autograph Hotel (35 stories)
901 MLK (33)
Paseo South, Tower Two (31)
Albion Music Row, Tower One (29)
Sinclair (27)
Mid City/1001 Broadway Tower One (26)
1401 Church, Tower One (26)
Demonbreun Hill One (22)
611 Cowan Dual Brand Hotel (17)
Hilton Tempo/Homewood Suites Cowan St. (17)
531 Lafayette (15)
Element Hotel Lafayette (14)
Holiday Inn Express/333 Union (10)
 

Maybe underway this year:

Fallon Hotel One, East Bank (40 stories)
Park Place Tower One (32)
Vela Pie Town (32)
125 11th B=North (30)
Marriott Edition Hotel/condos (28)
Voce Hotel/Condos (25)
Fallon Hotel Two, East Bank (16)
Pinnacle Hotel Cowan St. (15)
Residence Inn, East Bank (15)
800 Main (10)
 

Topped-Out so far in 2024:

Pinnacle Tower (35 stories)
AEG Residential One (35)
AEG Residential Two (34)
Peabody Union Tower (27)
Hillsboro Town Centre (22 stories)
1805 Church (16)
5 City Place (15 stories)
Vandy LINK Hospital (15 stories)
Hyatt Caption Hotel (12)
Ballpark Village (8)
Modera SoBro, Phase One  (7)



Should Top-Out this year:

Modera McGavock (29 stories)
Society (16)
Aspire Midtown (14)
Nashville Yards AEG Office/Entertainment Building (13)
Crestmoor (12)
Tempo Hotel Midtown (12)
Belmont Caldwell II Dorm (11)
Elliston Place Holiday Inn (8)
Downtown YMCA Addition (7)
900 Division (7)
 

[smeagolsfree]

It is not as Rosey as it appears either.

The one thing that is holding the Music City Stars group back is they want a minority owner. That is going to be harder to come by than most realize. They are now looking outside of Davidson County for a site as well, two that I know of.

This article sort of puts things into perspective for their organization. They still have a great organization on paper but have been slowed by current events. There is a lot of money flowing in and through this city to say the least. Money that may not live here full time but lives here part time. Lots of Hollywood, Sports figures, and music personalities have second homes here.

Music City Baseball's pursuit of MLB franchise in Nashville - Nashville Banner

[Richhamleigh, DC]

The reality is that Tennessee and Nashville dont come close to media market sizes, economies, and population of North Carolina.  MLB would be stupid to ignore NC.

[kermit]

Despite all the signs that public money is rapidly drying up, Jerry Reisendorf appears to be actively ‘Oaklandizing’ the White Sox.

A few more months of this (along w Las Vegas voters saying no to stadium money) and both Charlotte and Raleigh could have MLB at the cost of a few thousand bucks and a fistful of Bojangles coupons. 

 

[videtur quam contuor]

The "official" attendance yesterday was 10,400 which is tickets sold. Thus we know that the full/partial season ticket base is about 10,000 or a bit less considering there are some walkups/game day sales. Season ticket sales are not public information but this is certainly in the lowest MLB range. Athletics likely lower. Tampa Bay and Miami have had low season sales in the past, apparent when there was a game such as this in Chicago yesterday, a last minute rescheduled game from a day-before rainout. 

[The Guardian of Memphis]

On 4/13/2024 at 7:30 AM, KJHburg said:

I sure wish the state of Tennessee would pay some attention to Memphis once a rival to Nashville but no more as Nashville has zoomed by it.  The state of affairs there is terrible.  

But even if the state gives some free land for a MLB team won't they want the city of Nashville to chip in greatly as was done with the new Titans stadium? 

The state pays us attention, somewhat. LOL. If they didn't, we wouldn't have gotten some of the funding to renovate FedEx Forum. I think there are so many mouths to feed in this state, and everyone wants to jockey in position to get what they want. Memphis gets blamed for its leadership (or lack thereof), which is agreeable to a point. It's not all 100% bad. Our new mayor wants to increase property taxes to pay for needed services. Current Tennessee Bureau of Investigation statistics show some areas of crime are down, but still a lot more work to be done. 

I'm happy that we have at least one major sports team, and also proud that they've been here for going on 20 years.