New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[nashvylle]

20 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

I’ve said it before and I say it again. They need us more than we need them. We needn’t let the wealthy owners of an NFL team continue to be major benefactors of Nashville’s taxpayers. Work out a deal that is reasonable for all parties, or let them take their ball and go, if they think that is better for them!

It is very reasonable for taxpayers. The hotel tourists will be paying for city’s portion, plus unused and underutilized parking lots will be developed and metro taxpayers will go from seeing zero real estate and sales tax income to 100% of real estate tax and 50% of sales tax income (it should be stated that some real estate tax income could go for a TIF, but that has not been discussed yet). 

[Luvemtall]

So for those of you opposed to this new stadium, help me understand. Does it boil down to the fact , that there’s a possibility we have to pay a few extra dollars in our taxes? Don’t we already pay for other municipal capital projects ? Somehow ,somewhere aren’t we putting tax dollars into projects like the MCC and Soccer Stadium ? If we eventually have some form of transit, we definitely will need to pay something for that. Yet we all can’t wait for that to happen , like yesterday. But we all know , transit will benefit the city. Well this multi-use stadium will benefit the city also, so what’s the beef if we end up having to put some tax dollars in on it? Everyone keeps trying to put this all on the Titans, and I really think it goes beyond that. It’s more the State and City that wants this and will benefit from doing so. I’m ok if I have to pay a little to help subsidize a city project ( the Titans don’t own this, the city does) if you never paid taxes elsewhere in a major market, you would never know how ridiculously low Nashville’s taxes are compared to cities of this size. Hell, my sister pays 12,650 dollars per year for property taxes on a 1200sq foot home on 1/6 acre in a small Connecticut town a suburb of NYC . 

[andywildman]

21 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

Glad @donNdonelson2and I are on the same page haha.

We have talked about he East Bank Vision Plan and how the stadium is so integral to that. Imagine a hypothetical scenario where the stadium as a whole goes away because the Titans have left (and Nashville subsequently sues them) and we have a complete carte blanche neighborhood where we don't have to accommodate a massive arena? Those possibilities are so endless.

I go back and forth on that, Craig. I think both Nashville and the Titans are better off for having them in our town.

Anchoring East Bank development around a new enclosed stadium that will draw tourists and locals alike for games, concerts, and Wrestlemania has to have additional draw to developers and investors who will bid on the sports authority's lots around the stadium.

More importantly, the capital projects to put power, sewer, water, etc. on the East Bank is going to be incredibly expensive - and the story that it's related to a brand new world-class stadium (and decades of NFL attendees, concert-going tourists, and wrestling fans) is likely an easier story to sell to lenders or anyone who is affected by an incremental tax district.

I love the idea of a blank slate, and Nashville certainly doesn't NEED a stadium (downtown or otherwise - there are 8+ other MSAs larger than us without an NFL team - shoutout to Portland, Orlando, San Antonio, and even booming Austin). Look at the growth in the Gulch or Midtown - we could have that on the East Bank, no matter what. You're right that we don't NEED them.

But the identity of a stadium district has an appeal to many residents, from football fans, to residents who only think about construction when it blocks their commute, to even some of the commenters on this board.

[Melrose]

This thread remains largely a lost cause.  If you really believe that the Titans will find somewhere else to move to, and worse,  that this immense unlikelihood justifies the current version of this deal,  then I don't know what to tell you other than I feel bad for your logic and reasoning skills.  And if you further believe that losing the Titans/NFL, alone,  would make Nashville a "dying city",  then I don't know man, whatever.....

[Rick Dalton]

3 minutes ago, Melrose said:

This thread remains largely a lost cause.  If you really believe that the Titans will find somewhere else to move to, and worse,  that this immense unlikelihood justifies the current version of this deal,  then I don't know what to tell you other than I feel bad for your logic and reasoning skills.  And if you further believe that losing the Titans/NFL, alone,  would make Nashville a "dying city",  then I don't know man, whatever.....

O wise one, tell us your secrets. Us mortals could never begin to understand your enlightenment.

[Rick Dalton]

To elaborate: you’re in all these threads railing against the titans stadium, and Butch Spyridion, and the tourism industry in general, yet you expect vast investment in public transport and general urban livability.

To which I say: great. I also want those things. But you can’t have it both ways. News flash: without a vibrant entertainment scene, Nashville is just another random city in the south, akin to Memphis or Birmingham. Without indulging in the entertainment scene, there is no money to achieve the goals we all aspire to (urban development).

Nashville is not New York or London. We can’t afford to cut off the outside world and rely on historical greatness to fund operations. We have to encourage the entertainment scene, as corny as it can be, because that’s the reason Nashville is able to achieve anything. 
 

So if the Titans leave Nashville, it actually is a big deal. The world could forget about Nashville just as quickly as they discovered it. At that point, there will be no money to fund any of these projects. It’s not that the Titans leaving would directly correlate to this, but it would quite obviously be a troubling sign, even if you don’t care about football. St. Louis has been in population decline for decades.

I would encourage you to open your aperture a bit and see the whole picture. Nashville in its current form does not exist without the good, bad, ugly, and audacious.

[Auntie Yock]

23 hours ago, natethegreat said:

If the titans leave Nashville, I leave Nashville. Losing an NFL team is the sign of a dying city like St. Louis. 

That's as bad as when the Brooklyn Dodgers left for Mexico City.

[Bos2Nash]

3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Whoa , sorry bout that. I definitely wasn’t attacking you or anyone else, we are all adults just having a conversation. My post was just a jest, not meant in any negative or demeaning way. I value your opinion and look forward to your insight on many topics. Please accept my apology. 

All good man. 

1 hour ago, andywildman said:

I go back and forth on that, Craig. I think both Nashville and the Titans are better off for having them in our town.

Anchoring East Bank development around a new enclosed stadium that will draw tourists and locals alike for games, concerts, and Wrestlemania has to have additional draw to developers and investors who will bid on the sports authority's lots around the stadium.

More importantly, the capital projects to put power, sewer, water, etc. on the East Bank is going to be incredibly expensive - and the story that it's related to a brand new world-class stadium (and decades of NFL attendees, concert-going tourists, and wrestling fans) is likely an easier story to sell to lenders or anyone who is affected by an incremental tax district.

I love the idea of a blank slate, and Nashville certainly doesn't NEED a stadium (downtown or otherwise - there are 8+ other MSAs larger than us without an NFL team - shoutout to Portland, Orlando, San Antonio, and even booming Austin). Look at the growth in the Gulch or Midtown - we could have that on the East Bank, no matter what. You're right that we don't NEED them.

But the identity of a stadium district has an appeal to many residents, from football fans, to residents who only think about construction when it blocks their commute, to even some of the commenters on this board.

I like the identity of the stadium district. I think having that anchored there is great draw. My logic just was that it is not needed to make the area valuable. Ultimately, a stadium deal will get done and I think the Titans are not going anywhere. To me though, from a planning and urbanist approach, the new location is plain bad. I still think the "neighborhood" should be on the east side of the stadium to better connect with the neighborhood and keep the "entertainment" on the west side of the river with the exception of the stadium. Logistically it is a much harder project, but IMHO it is a better plan for the city. 

3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

So for those of you opposed to this new stadium, help me understand. Does it boil down to the fact , that there’s a possibility we have to pay a few extra dollars in our taxes? Don’t we already pay for other municipal capital projects ? Somehow ,somewhere aren’t we putting tax dollars into projects like the MCC and Soccer Stadium ? If we eventually have some form of transit, we definitely will need to pay something for that. Yet we all can’t wait for that to happen , like yesterday. But we all know , transit will benefit the city. Well this multi-use stadium will benefit the city also, so what’s the beef if we end up having to put some tax dollars in on it? Everyone keeps trying to put this all on the Titans, and I really think it goes beyond that. It’s more the State and City that wants this and will benefit from doing so. I’m ok if I have to pay a little to help subsidize a city project ( the Titans don’t own this, the city does) if you never paid taxes elsewhere in a major market, you would never know how ridiculously low Nashville’s taxes are compared to cities of this size. Hell, my sister pays 12,650 dollars per year for property taxes on a 1200sq foot home on 1/6 acre in a small Connecticut town a suburb of NYC . 

To me though, there are just too many unanswered questions that do leave a fair amount of burden on taxpayers. I have no problem paying a little more for things, but when billionaires are involved, I want to minimize that burden. I will gladly pay some extra tax for better schools, get transit, sidewalks, bike lanes things that would allow Nashville to grow beyond just a mediocre SE city. If this was a known burden on the tax payers that may even go over a bit better, but the actual burden is a giant "?" and in reality the burden could dramatically grow if something was to happen. Here is another HYPOTHETICAL scenario. Say the state pettiness continues for years and they target the $500 million tax subsidy on the stadium. While they could not back out of the contract itself (their bill for MCC proved this is not allowed), but they come in and try to stipulate that the Sports Authority cannot put money away in savings for future expenditures and then something catastrophic happens. Where does that money come from? The general fund is going to have to protect that, because the Titans backstop is never supposed to be touched. The variables of our petty state government needs to be considered now because of their dumb politics. 

The state wants to take control of the Airport and the Sports Authority, well then they should shoulder the most burden for the investments. Let the state carry the $700 million in bonds and then Metro can carry a $500 million sales tax deferment. 

[Luvemtall]

All good points, thanks again. Your absolutely right on the unknowns with the State, things are a bit unstable.

[MLBrumby]

I'm only watching from afar, but keep in mind that folks across the state have a stake in this.  I mention this dome to people around here and Knoxville all the time, and they had no idea about it.  That said, I believe both sides will not let the dome not get built. I think Mendes' letter was a bit overdue, and it would seem he's posturing for a mayoral run. However, I think he lays out some points I wish had been more prominent in the early discussions. Specifically, it troubles me about the numbers for the existing lease and the obligations to Metro.  The $2.1B figure seems to be based on (compared to) very inflated figures with the existing stadium/lease obligations.  I'd like to see someone closer to the figures give us more detail on where those future expenses would come from.  Overall, I still think the question would surround the cost of a "all weather venue"... which I'm not convinced is a dollar-to-dollars comparison.  There appears to be a lack of leadership from the mayor and the sports council, as well as any champion for the dome in the Metro Council.  REgarding the state's power play, I have assumed (perhaps erroneously) that the majority of members in the legislature actually do want the dome.  But they flexed in response to the Metro Council vote last year on the RNC (and public announcements they wouldn't pursue the DNC).  I think Sexton is just pushing back because he can.  I commend Cooper for his response; as he doesn't want to get into a dustup either. I expect this kerfuffle will end up working for the best for both parties in the end.... Metro and the state need to understand they don't operate in a vacuum.  From where I see things, neither side wants to kill the goose.

Edited February 17, 2023 by MLBrumby

[SoundScan]

3 hours ago, Melrose said:

This thread remains largely a lost cause.  If you really believe that the Titans will find somewhere else to move to, and worse,  that this immense unlikelihood justifies the current version of this deal,  then I don't know what to tell you other than I feel bad for your logic and reasoning skills.  And if you further believe that losing the Titans/NFL, alone,  would make Nashville a "dying city",  then I don't know man, whatever.....

Three NFL franchises have relocated in the last 7 years (San Diego, St. Louis, Oakland) and all of them are larger markets than Nashville (which remains one of the smallest in the NFL). The "dying city" remarks are hyperbole but so is the idea that the Titans are both stuck with Nashville and/or provide no complementary benefits to the city. There's a reason the Titans are always on NFL relocation short lists recently, between the expiring lease, Nashville's relatively tiny NFL market size, and the NFL's international expansion plans, there are dozens of options for them to consider a move.

[japan]

On 2/16/2023 at 3:25 PM, donNdonelson2 said:

I’ve said it before and I say it again. They need us more than we need them. We needn’t let the wealthy owners of an NFL team continue to be major benefactors of Nashville’s taxpayers. Work out a deal that is reasonable for all parties, or let them take their ball and go, if they think that is better for them!

The league needs our small market more than we need the league? How does that work?

[WebberThomas4]

Core drilling happening today.

[Rick Dalton]

Drilling where ?

[WebberThomas4]

23 minutes ago, natethegreat said:

Drilling where ?

Parking lot where the new stadium would sit.

[Rick Dalton]

Don’t tell Bob Mendes

[PruneTracy]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:03 PM, Luvemtall said:

So for those of you opposed to this new stadium, help me understand. Does it boil down to the fact , that there’s a possibility we have to pay a few extra dollars in our taxes? Don’t we already pay for other municipal capital projects ? Somehow ,somewhere aren’t we putting tax dollars into projects like the MCC and Soccer Stadium ? If we eventually have some form of transit, we definitely will need to pay something for that. Yet we all can’t wait for that to happen , like yesterday. But we all know , transit will benefit the city. Well this multi-use stadium will benefit the city also, so what’s the beef if we end up having to put some tax dollars in on it? Everyone keeps trying to put this all on the Titans, and I really think it goes beyond that. It’s more the State and City that wants this and will benefit from doing so. I’m ok if I have to pay a little to help subsidize a city project ( the Titans don’t own this, the city does) if you never paid taxes elsewhere in a major market, you would never know how ridiculously low Nashville’s taxes are compared to cities of this size. Hell, my sister pays 12,650 dollars per year for property taxes on a 1200sq foot home on 1/6 acre in a small Connecticut town a suburb of NYC . 

I'm not necessarily against a new stadium but it would help immensely if the messaging for it were honest.

If the message was, this new stadium will cost taxpayers a little more but help Nashville pick up one Super Bowl and one Final Four over its design life, among a few other events, and possibly serve as a catalyst for redevelopment of the East Bank, that would be fine.

Instead, the messaging is that this is a better deal financially than renovating Nissan Stadium and that the East Bank redevelopment can't happen without it, which are both gross exaggerations and sourced by the same entities who have a vested interest in building a new stadium.

Also, if the Titans don't own the stadium in name, they certainly will have a lot of control over it, just like they do Nissan Stadium. You'll have a hard time finding other multi-billion-dollar Metro or even state projects that cede operational control to a completely private entity. We're just now getting into P3s for roadways and that's a dogfight. And the Titans have only in the past few years acquiesced to hosting events other than football games in the stadium; for a long time it was only used for the Titans, TSU football, CMA Fest, and a near-annual Kenny Chesney concert.

I get that the NFL is a big deal and that cities across the nation have to do this song and dance where they spend millions to subsidize stadiums for it but that doesn't mean we have to buy into the messaging. Just call it what it is and be done with it. It sucks sitting outside on a plastic seat in September to watch the Titans and we want to spend some tax dollars on a stadium that looks nicer and has a roof and air conditioning and while it's still brand-new they'll probably give us a Super Bowl and a Final Four so the city can have its moment in the limelight and there's a possibility we might develop the land around it this time.

[Luvemtall]

That’s a simple , but to the point example of honesty. I like that view , PruneTracy! 
I’m for them building the new stadium, but it has to come with all the other visions and promises set forth to us, the infrastructure, housing, and inclusion for all the residents of Nashville. 

[Bos2Nash]

On 2/20/2023 at 11:32 AM, WebberThomas4 said:

Core drilling happening today.

Probably confirming structural assumptions made that are in association with the design. Whether the stadium moves forward or not (which I ultimately think it will), the design is necessary to continue moving forwards until a decision is made in order to avoid delays on the construction side of things.

[markhollin]

Final documents for a $2.1 billion Tennessee Titans Stadium were filed with Metro Council on Feb. 24.

These documents will be introduced to Council at its March 7 meeting with hopes that a final vote will take place by the end of April, according to a Titans spokesperson. A new stadium would likely be complete in 2027, as opposed to 2026 as originally thought.

Several additions were made to the final documents.

- The stadium deal now provides the potential for surplus revenue generated by stadium funding sources used to repay Sports Authority bonds to be applied to other "debt service reserves or to prepay portions of the bonds early, reducing interest costs paid and potentially saving millions of dollars," according to the release.

- The Titans have agreed to cover more project infrastructure, including street and plaza infrastructure, in addition to covering the relocation of stadium-related utilities.

- The final agreement places a $42 million cap on Metro’s responsibility to keep Nissan Stadium functional until the new stadium is complete, whereas the non-binding term sheet had no limits. The Titans will be responsible for any overrun.

- The Nashville Needs Impact Fund was created out of an amendment filed during the approval of the non-binding terms sheet. It is meant to support Davidson County’s nonprofits to address needs in public education, transit, gender equity in sports and affordable housing. The Titans will contribute $1 million a year, scaling at 3% each year, totaling $47 million over the next 30 years. The city will also contribute to this fund through percentages of net rents, incremental property taxes and local option sales tax generated by the stadium campus.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2023/02/24/final-documents-for-a-21b-tennessee-titans-stadi.html

[Jarno6006]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:17 PM, Bos2Nash said:

All good man. 

I like the identity of the stadium district. I think having that anchored there is great draw. My logic just was that it is not needed to make the area valuable. Ultimately, a stadium deal will get done and I think the Titans are not going anywhere. To me though, from a planning and urbanist approach, the new location is plain bad. I still think the "neighborhood" should be on the east side of the stadium to better connect with the neighborhood and keep the "entertainment" on the west side of the river with the exception of the stadium. Logistically it is a much harder project, but IMHO it is a better plan for the city. 

To me though, there are just too many unanswered questions that do leave a fair amount of burden on taxpayers. I have no problem paying a little more for things, but when billionaires are involved, I want to minimize that burden. I will gladly pay some extra tax for better schools, get transit, sidewalks, bike lanes things that would allow Nashville to grow beyond just a mediocre SE city. If this was a known burden on the tax payers that may even go over a bit better, but the actual burden is a giant "?" and in reality the burden could dramatically grow if something was to happen. Here is another HYPOTHETICAL scenario. Say the state pettiness continues for years and they target the $500 million tax subsidy on the stadium. While they could not back out of the contract itself (their bill for MCC proved this is not allowed), but they come in and try to stipulate that the Sports Authority cannot put money away in savings for future expenditures and then something catastrophic happens. Where does that money come from? The general fund is going to have to protect that, because the Titans backstop is never supposed to be touched. The variables of our petty state government needs to be considered now because of their dumb politics. 

The state wants to take control of the Airport and the Sports Authority, well then they should shoulder the most burden for the investments. Let the state carry the $700 million in bonds and then Metro can carry a $500 million sales tax deferment. 

"I will gladly pay some extra tax for better schools, get transit, sidewalks, bike lanes things that would allow Nashville to grow beyond just a mediocre SE city."  -   

I don't think Nashville mediocre SE city.  but rather one of the premier SE cities.  The Titans and Predators are some of the reasons we are premier.   However, I drive a ton in Nashville as most of you do and I can go weeks in Nashville and never see a bike in the bike lanes.  

[PaulChinetti]

Classic chicken and the egg problem. 
 

Drive in 12 South now. 100% more bikers now that they actually feel safe. 

[Rick Dalton]

Nightmare day for Bob Mendes, as per usual 

[samsonh]

17 hours ago, Jarno6006 said:

"I will gladly pay some extra tax for better schools, get transit, sidewalks, bike lanes things that would allow Nashville to grow beyond just a mediocre SE city."  -   

I don't think Nashville mediocre SE city.  but rather one of the premier SE cities.  The Titans and Predators are some of the reasons we are premier.   However, I drive a ton in Nashville as most of you do and I can go weeks in Nashville and never see a bike in the bike lanes.  

The Titans and Preds are mediocre teams. They certainly aren’t why Nashville is a good city. Making Nashville more walkable and not just a place to drive through would be a huge leap forward.

15 hours ago, natethegreat said:

Nightmare day for Bob Mendes, as per usual 

Why? None of the issues with the agreement were fixed. This agreement passing relies on people’s emotional connection to the team. If it made economic sense to build a new stadium then private money would do it. The titans could redevelop the area around the stadium, and yet they haven’t done so for nearly 25 years.

[nashvylle]

3 hours ago, samsonh said:

 If it made economic sense to build a new stadium then private money would do it. The titans could redevelop the area around the stadium, and yet they haven’t done so for nearly 25 years.

All the stadiums that were built we more private money are surrounded by hundreds of acres of parking because it’s so lucrative to the teams. I think we can all agree we’d rather redevelop these parking lots, finally collect sales and real estate tax revenue, build affordable housing and parks, etc.. and have metro’s portion be mainly paid by hotel guests