Fairgrounds Speedway Racetrack expansion to 30,000 seats

[Bos2Nash]

45 minutes ago, bnacincy said:

From what I've been reading online, the Ally 400 race was a sellout-also the TV ratings were the highest of any season opener in 3 years.

So if the stands are full and the TV ratings are solid, then what exactly is the problem with the Superspeedway that only the Fairgrounds track renovation could solve?

I'll reiterate this, I don't believe the superspeedway is really in the long term plans for what Nascar is wanting to achieve. I think the superspeedway is a stop gap of sorts to get the Fairgrounds on the schedule. Nascar is also moving in the direction of a much more sustainable model and they understand that getting butts in the seats in sustainable manner is to be closer to the core or nearby to alternative transportation. Seeing as Nashville offers very little alternative transportation, they are gonna want to be even closer to the core. Not to mention what Nashville offers within its core is impressive from a spectator standpoint, so why wouldn't they want to be closer to the core. 

1 hour ago, Melrose said:

They hit some really unlucky weather for sure.  It should be noted that if there was a weather cancellation or similar significant delays that depressed attendance and spending  under the current version of  Bristol/Fairgrounds proposal,  Metro would take a major hit from the lost revenue and have to cover the whole resulting shortfall in debt service.  Bristol wouldn't be on the hook for even a fraction of this,  which again is one of the many things that could have been fixed here if Bristol had been forced to negotiate a fair deal and not just the Mayor taking whatever they put out there...

Then it is good that the deal was questioned and will ultimately not get voted on till next session. I think it was incredibly irresponsible of the previous Mayor's to ignore the racetrack like they did during the soccer negotiation and I applaud Mayor Cooper for trying to pay attention to it. Clearly the proposed deal though is not right for the city, but I hope conversations are continued with the next administration and council. Again, if the deal mirrors the soccer deal where BMS handles debt service and revenue shortfalls - with a caveat that the city somehow replaces not giving away 10-acres of land - how is it a bad deal for the city? 

[bnacincy]

What exactly is "unsustainable" about sold out races and solid TV ratings?

[Bos2Nash]

42 minutes ago, bnacincy said:

What exactly is "unsustainable" about sold out races and solid TV ratings?

Nothing when focusing purely on the event itself. But when you zoom out to examine a more "life-cycle" approach to it you begin to think about the amount of energy/resources that goes into the infrastructure on or around the track, the amount of energy to transport 30,000 people in ±15,000 cars, they amount of energy that goes into setting up/tearing down and storing the temporary stands that get setup every year. Those elements are not very sustainable. Nascar has a very robust sustainability initiative (believe it or not) to work toward becoming a more sustainable sport. Move those 30,000 spectators where even half of those folks have the ability to take an alterative form of transportation (Bus, Bike, Walk, etc) immediately helps the sport be more sustainable. Very similar to why MLS, NFL, NHL, wanting WNBA/MLB close to the core, Nascar is looking at that and seeing it as a model that works and BMS is trying to take advantage of an existing facility that has irresponsibly ignored. 

So it isn't totally "unsustainable" (kind of why I didn't use that term), but they can make moves to be "more sustainable". 

[Luvemtall]

I’m scratching my head with this whole ordeal, not sure I’m on the save the Fairgrounds racetrack bandwagon yet. Bos2Nash I’m usually with you on most topics, but I just can’t buy into the sense of choosing the Fairgrounds over the SuperSpeedway. Sure Downtown has a lot to offer , but it’s only 30-40 minutes away from Lebanon. I drive it many times per week. It just makes more sense to stick with the SuperSpeedway and help get some services built up around it. As I mentioned before, I don’t have any stake in the outcome of this, but I think Metro can better benefit from tearing this track down and building something more on the line of a multi level parking garage wrapped in retail space and affordable housing above. Or a library and Metro health service center and … 

[bnacincy]

So what does this mean? Will NASCAR get rid of the tracks in Charlotte? Talladega? Daytona? And if not, why not? Are they going to make them "more sustainable"? And why would you take down "temporary stands" in the first place? Just make them permanent.

With the exception of Daytona, the other tracks are not exactly in  core urban areas and are doing fine.

None of this makes any sense. The superspeedway in Wilson County is a proven viable product.

The city needs to steer clear of this and work with up and coming sports-they got the MLS and now they need to go after the WNBA.

[lmc123]

1 hour ago, bnacincy said:

So what does this mean? Will NASCAR get rid of the tracks in Charlotte? Talladega? Daytona? And if not, why not? Are they going to make them "more sustainable"? And why would you take down "temporary stands" in the first place? Just make them permanent.

With the exception of Daytona, the other tracks are not exactly in  core urban areas and are doing fine.

None of this makes any sense. The superspeedway in Wilson County is a proven viable product.

The city needs to steer clear of this and work with up and coming sports-they got the MLS and now they need to go after the WNBA.

Lmao at the WNBA

[titanhog]

I’ve never been to a NASCAR race, though I used to watch a few races with my brother when I was younger.

Thing is, they’ve built all of these HUGE tracks, similar to Nashville Superspeedway, where you could conceivably seat 100k+, which is what they were doing for 20+ years.  But now, they see the writing on the wall and are begging to get back to the “roots” of the sport…and Nashville’s Fairgrounds Speedway is one of the “gems” of the early sport (raced there until the mid-80’s).  NASCAR wants to be in that specific spot badly.  It’s a fun track…different than most…has immense history.  The track in Gladeville is a bit of a drive outside of Nashville and is so cookie-cutter and bland in comparison to what the Fairgrounds track is.

Do I wish it weren’t surrounded by homes now and maybe a little different location?  Yeah…I guess.  But also…do we have to be a total “change is good” city, as well?  Is there no room to keep a 100 year old track going?  It’s not like bringing in 1 NASCAR a race a year is going to inconvenience this neighborhood to the point their quality of living is drastically altered.  It’s also not like there hasn’t been continual racing (probably many times without much, if any, noise cancellation) in this exact spot for decades.

To me, it seems almost like a segment of people who just want racing gone from the city smell blood in the water and now is the perfect time to attack.

[bnacincy]

Soccer and Basketball are participation sports in ways that NASCAR can never be. 

The WNBA may not generate the revenue NASCAR does but it has a greater impact in the community by sponsoring youth leagues and summer basketball camps. Their stars are role models for girls who only have to pick up a basketball and head to the nearest public court to play and learn the game. '

There is no way NASCAR can match that. It is prohibitively expensive for most,

Soccer is a global sport phenomenon and is the world's most popular sport while basketball is ranked  #3 behind cricket....!

NASCAR does not rank in the top 10 globally and Formula 1 is beginning to catch up with it in this country.

41 minutes ago, lmc123 said:

Lmao at the WNBA

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by bnacincy
Content

[go_outside]

58 minutes ago, titanhog said:

I’ve never been to a NASCAR race, though I used to watch a few races with my brother when I was younger.

Thing is, they’ve built all of these HUGE tracks, similar to Nashville Superspeedway, where you could conceivably seat 100k+, which is what they were doing for 20+ years.  But now, they see the writing on the wall and are begging to get back to the “roots” of the sport…and Nashville’s Fairgrounds Speedway is one of the “gems” of the early sport (raced there until the mid-80’s).  NASCAR wants to be in that specific spot badly.  It’s a fun track…different than most…has immense history.  The track in Gladeville is a bit of a drive outside of Nashville and is so cookie-cutter and bland in comparison to what the Fairgrounds track is.

Do I wish it weren’t surrounded by homes now and maybe a little different location?  Yeah…I guess.  But also…do we have to be a total “change is good” city, as well?  Is there no room to keep a 100 year old track going?  It’s not like bringing in 1 NASCAR a race a year is going to inconvenience this neighborhood to the point their quality of living is drastically altered.  It’s also not like there hasn’t been continual racing (probably many times without much, if any, noise cancellation) in this exact spot for decades.

To me, it seems almost like a segment of people who just want racing gone from the city smell blood in the water and now is the perfect time to attack.

My primary issue is Metro backstopping the bonds. I don't see why we should agree to a worse deal than the MLS stadium right next door.

If Nascar wanted to pay for the whole thing, I say go for it.

[samsonh]

8 hours ago, go_outside said:

My primary issue is Metro backstopping the bonds. I don't see why we should agree to a worse deal than the MLS stadium right next door.

If Nascar wanted to pay for the whole thing, I say go for it.

If nascar was putting any money in it would be nice. 

[Melrose]

On 7/6/2023 at 1:37 PM, Bos2Nash said:

I think it was incredibly irresponsible of the previous Mayor's to ignore the racetrack

It wasn't ignored.  There have been efforts to look at real renovations, there was even initial money for some renovations years ago,   but Bristol has been floating out there for 5 years  now with this proposed framework where they have no accountability.   Bristol has been the one effectively blocking progress because if Metro  went ahead and did a real renovation, then there would be no Bristol deal. 

 

On 7/6/2023 at 1:37 PM, Bos2Nash said:

with a caveat that the city somehow replaces not giving away 10-acres of land - how is it a bad deal for the city? 

The "10 acres of land" is a red herring being spread by Bristol to distract from the fact that they have no skin in the game in this deal.   The user of the new  facility, who is justifying the case for construction of that facility with their big events- i.e. Bristol and NASCAR cup race(s)- should backstop the cost of the facility.  Period.  Get that debt backstop,  and then revise the lease agreements to actually back up the promises Bristol is making-  actually limiting racing and loud events to current levels or less,  and making them accountable for the sound reduction promises-  And then you might have something.   Right now though,  it certainly looks like Bristol has not intention of doing those things because those are not their plans.  

[Bos2Nash]

13 minutes ago, Melrose said:

It wasn't ignored.  There have been efforts to look at real renovations, there was even initial money for some renovations years ago,   but Bristol has been floating out there for 5 years  now with this proposed framework where they have no accountability.   Bristol has been the one effectively blocking progress because if Metro  went ahead and did a real renovation, then there would be no Bristol deal. 

This sounds more like an excuse than anything. "let's not plan to upkeep or renovate this because there is this hypothetical plan floating out here". The true optics of it is the racetrack was ignored.

14 minutes ago, Melrose said:

The "10 acres of land" is a red herring being spread by Bristol to distract from the fact that they have no skin in the game in this deal.   The user of the new  facility, who is justifying the case for construction of that facility with their big events- i.e. Bristol and NASCAR cup race(s)- should backstop the cost of the facility.  Period.  Get that debt backstop,  and then revise the lease agreements to actually back up the promises Bristol is making-  actually limiting racing and loud events to current levels or less,  and making them accountable for the sound reduction promises-  And then you might have something.   Right now though,  it certainly looks like Bristol has not intention of doing those things because those are not their plans.  

I find this entertaining, because I have heard very little from BMS themselves other than what is posted here. The so called "red-herring" is actually my own deduction just by looking at the two projects. Essentially what you are laying out is get a deal similar to soccer where the operator is held accountable. Sounds awfully familiar to things I have been saying all along. Even if I misunderstand legal text at times, I have always said BMS needs to be a partner similar to what NSC is.

Groups like NOTE have been coming out and using the their own red-herring of "noise will ruin the neighborhood". The noise has been there. And actually was perpetuated even worse when the previous mayoral administration allowed a quite illiterate operator get the operations deal and pass over BMS. NOTE is blasting the speedway as if it is a new entity, when it isn't. BMS needs to be a solid partner to get the deal done, yes, but the noise should be less of an argument IMO.

[markhollin]

Bristol Motor Speedway, the race operator seeking to renovate the Nashville Fairgrounds Speedway and bring NASCAR back to the city, has announced the signing of a community benefits agreement related to the project.

According to a release, Bristol signed the agreement with the Urban League of Middle Tennessee, the same organization that stepped in last year to form an agreement with a real estate developer that had reached an impasse with Stand Up Nashville, the group that helped originate CBAs in Nashville via its agreement with Nashville SC.

Mayor John Cooper and Bristol have pushed for the renovation deal to be approved before the end of this Metro Council term, though special meetings of the body would be required to approve a deal and there appears to be limited appetite on the Metro Council to rush the deliberations.

According to the release, Bristol has “agreed to hire locally, with a minimum pay of $18.50 per hour, give preference to qualified Davidson County minority business enterprises and diverse business enterprises, and to reach a goal of 30 percent for MBE/DBE for construction, supply, and post-construction of the Nashville Fairgrounds Speedway once the Bristol partnership with the city is approved.” Tennessee Attorney General Jonathan Skrmetti recently warned companies not to prioritize race in business decisions.

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/sports/sports_business/bristol-announces-benefits-agreement-for-potential-racetrack-improvements/article_c967f8f4-2567-11ee-bdd4-f7a20fdd6f0f.html


And at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2023/07/18/bristol-motor-speedway-and-urban-league-of-middle.html


And The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2023/07/18/bristol-urban-league-sign-benefits-agreement-for-nashville-speedway/70424422007/

[Rick Dalton]

Are there any Mayor candidates that will shut this down? Might have my vote

[smeagolsfree]

I think all of them will be overly cautious with this issue. I know Jim Gingrich was pretty vocally opposed but he just pulled out. The folks on support of the deal were going to start an ad campaign against him too. Sort of what happens when you spend 2 million of your own money and do not get any traction.

[DMilner]

3 hours ago, Rick Dalton said:

Are there any Mayor candidates that will shut this down? Might have my vote

I believe Rolli is the only pro track candidate. The rest have all spoken about pumping the brakes on the proposal. 

[KJHburg]

Seeing Dale Jr re-tweeted this out today:  I would say he is in support of a new race in Nashville. 

this is from a NASCAR writer based in the Charlotte area

Jerry Caldwell says the SMI agreement calls for a Cup race at Nashville Fairgrounds every other year while also managing local racing, the regional fair and the flea market.

Video of the discussion

Bristol Motor Speedway is owned by Charlotte based Speedway Motorsports who owns our big speedway.   I have said it before Nascar and Nashville are a perfect fit. 

[DMilner]

34 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Seeing Dale Jr re-tweeted this out today:  I would say he is in support of a new race in Nashville. 

this is from a NASCAR writer based in the Charlotte area

Jerry Caldwell says the SMI agreement calls for a Cup race at Nashville Fairgrounds every other year while also managing local racing, the regional fair and the flea market.

Video of the discussion

Bristol Motor Speedway is owned by Charlotte based Speedway Motorsports who owns our big speedway.   I have said it before Nascar and Nashville are a perfect fit. 

Interested to see which poll is actually correct. 

[MLBrumby]

Those survey results need attribution and more explanation. Sample size? How were they persuaded to support the proposal? What is the message? Was the cost explained?  

I think there would have been a lot more support for this 20 years ago, but the Fairgrounds has changed so much and Nashvillians have been hit up for so much by very wealthy sports owners, and then here comes another, SMI. I think as large a force working against it is that NASCAR isn't what it used to be and there's the superspeedway in the suburbs. It's my sense Nascar would have been welcomed with open arms before the fight over the soccer stadium and the hurt feelings in its wake. Plus it appears that Nashville has moved on to the more interesting street race with Indycar. 

[KJHburg]

what is the public ask for money for this?  I get sports fatigue especially when it comes to big new stadiums which you just built a soccer specific stadium and rebuilding your NFL stadium.  I have been by  this fairground site and it is indeed tight.  

[Luvemtall]

10 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

Those survey results need attribution and more explanation. Sample size? How were they persuaded to support the proposal? What is the message? Was the cost explained?  

I think there would have been a lot more support for this 20 years ago, but the Fairgrounds has changed so much and Nashvillians have been hit up for so much by very wealthy sports owners, and then here comes another, SMI. I think as large a force working against it is that NASCAR isn't what it used to be and there's the superspeedway in the suburbs. It's my sense Nascar would have been welcomed with open arms before the fight over the soccer stadium and the hurt feelings in its wake. Plus it appears that Nashville has moved on to the more interesting street race with Indycar. 

Feeling the same way about this, I still believe the wise decision is for SMI to invest whatever money they are putting up for this deal into renovations and marketing for the SuperSpeedway. It’s a track that they already own, is branded as the Nashville Race and has better logistics and ample parking and space to expand. I just don’t believe that the Nashville Fairgrounds Track is the right move, for SMI or especially The citizens of Nashville. Laws and Charters can always be changed, that’s an overblown and worn out argument. I truly believe that the only proponents for this to happen ,is from those that have fond memories of yesteryear’s hay days and Nascar diehards. If looked at without those blinders and with an open mind, this whole thing makes no sense at all. 

[downtownresident]

Not to mention, Cooper simply doesn’t have the time to pass three readings before the term is up. He should’ve brought this forward sooner if he wanted to get this done, he’s been talking about a deal at the racetrack for almost his entire term. 

[markhollin]

Coverage of the two competing rallies held at the Fairgrounds last night.  One was in favor of the track improvements, the other was not.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson/2023/07/26/nashville-fairgrounds-speedway-opponents-supporters-clash-in-public-meeting/70426862007/

[samsonh]

1 hour ago, downtownresident said:

Not to mention, Cooper simply doesn’t have the time to pass three readings before the term is up. He should’ve brought this forward sooner if he wanted to get this done, he’s been talking about a deal at the racetrack for almost his entire term. 

Agreed. It seems as if Cooper really did not want and/or care about this passing. 

[Bos2Nash]

It was a packed house last night at Geodis, with people waiting outside as the meeting got to max capacity for the space. I attended the meeting and spoke against the project from a purely financial standpoint. I still believe this is a good project for Nashville, but we really need to get the finances right. I also spoke to a couple BMS reps about the project on a couple topics:

• I have heard multiple people say "they are tearing the whole thing down and building new", so I pointedly asked about this. As I suspected, this is referring to the structures around the track and infield. They will repave the racing surface (because it certainly needs it), but the configuration of the racing surface will not change.
• The new tunnel under turn 3 is a pedestrian only tunnel to help with overall flow of the fairgrounds campus. The BMS engineer I spoke with on it floated a price tag of $750,000 for the new tunnel. The car haulers would enter the infield through the wall in turn 4 and over the racing surface. This is very common for small tracks. Bristol, Martinsville, and I believe Dover and North Wilkesboro all have the same setup.
• In speaking with the finance person I specifically asked why Nashville is the "middle man" in regards to any revenue shortfall in which Nashville would cover any gap in revenue and to be reimbursed if the profit is there (we discussed this here via the waterfall convo). BMS said the possibility is so minute that it is barely any risk to Nashville. So I re-framed my question and asked if it is such low risk, why can't BMS cover that minute risk? I could sense a bit of frustration when re-framing this, but was given a two fold answer. The 10-acres of land and the price tag if Nashville doesn't do a deal. 
  • Not a fan of the BMS playing the Titans card in that if BMS deal does not go through (or some form of deal doesnt go through), Nashville faces a massive general fund price tag for speedway updates. This is also the first I have heard of such a price tag. A $41 million dollar hit to the general fund was pointed to as a real possibility if this deal doesn't go through. Does anyone have information on this? 
  • The 10-acres of land was brought up completely unprompted, but is definitely a sticking point for BMS. They pointed to it as the soccer stadium's secondary revenue stream which incentivized them to cover the debt service. This is a caveat that I have been pointing to for a while now. Metro definitely hurt themselves by setting that precedent for the soccer stadium
• The sound walls will go from the beginning of Turn 1 (at the end of the extended grandstand) around the entire track to the new Turn 4 structure to be built. The sound wall/structures will literally encompass the entire track. 
• I asked about muffler use for the racetrack and BMS actually cannot dictate their use. That is a decision that NASCAR themselves have to make. They utilize them at the LA Coliseum and the Chicago Street Race and in a letter to the city points to their use. So the use of mufflers needs to be a larger conversation with Metro/NASCAR/BMS. 
• The amount of track activity was brought up again. 10 total race weekends. 1 of which would be a Nascar weekend (Cup Series every other year), 20 practice days (down from 25 current), then a 4 and 5 race count for other and regional series (these would be blended with the Nascar/Cup weekends as well). These other series include the SRX series (brought in the largest crowd in 30 years its first year here), CARS Tour, ARCA, etc. 
  • I know it has been pointed out here that this is not in the Lease and I brought up that this could go a long way in getting support. 
  • Hypothetically, it is possible that success at the racetrack could bring up a desire to bring two events to the Fairgrounds, but two would be the absolute max for Cup Series and BMS doesn't even expect two for it.
• Many of the "pro" folks were calling for a special session to 

One interesting thing to me is the way folks like NOTE and CARE talk about the venue. It is an existing entity and many of the comments speak as if it is a new entity, like when NSC came to town. To me that angle doesn't work because it has always been there. While we need to work through the finances of the deal, any improvement to the speedway is an improvement overall. 

Folks speaking against the racetrack did bring up the popular - but incorrect - notion that Nascar is dying. It isn't. Nascar is negotiating its next TV deal as we speak. They are finishing up a 10-year, $8.2 billion TV deal with Fox and NBC, which equates to about $820 million per year for 4 to 5 exhibition races and 36 points races. Nascar is also expected to want a 10% to 15% increase on its upcoming TV deal. For comparison, MLS just signed (12/2022) a 10-year, $2.5 billion with Apple TV with an additional supplement with Fox while covering alot more content. The NHL also signed new 7-year contracts back in 2021 with Disney and Turner Sports worth a total of about $4.4 billion, again with covering a lot more content. This puts Nascar on par or even a little ahead of two of the four major sports (especially when broken down to a per event breakdown) in the US. Viewership fluctuates year to year and race to race, with the biggest swings are when the races get pushed to secondary networks (like FS1 instead of Fox). The tracks also are continually announcing sellouts event after event. Most recently, Pocono Raceway announced their sellout this past weekend, hosting their largest crowd since 2010!

3 hours ago, downtownresident said:

Not to mention, Cooper simply doesn’t have the time to pass three readings before the term is up. He should’ve brought this forward sooner if he wanted to get this done, he’s been talking about a deal at the racetrack for almost his entire term. 

Technically, from what I'm told, they can call a special session to work through this. Many of the people in favor of the project were asking for just that.