Fairgrounds Speedway Racetrack expansion to 30,000 seats

[Rick Dalton]

No one cares about Nascar anymore. Metro should just buy the property, bulldoze everything, and create a green space. 

[Bos2Nash]

2 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

The EV drag strip is definitely not a good concept, I’ll agree with that. Just think that was thrown out there to satisfy the Charter requirements, but to that extent ICE powered vehicles are on their way out. If they are to cause any gentrification or disruption of the blue collar folks ,is yet to be determined. As manufacturers dial in on the technology and innovation progresses, cost and efficiency will stabilize. Just imagine what the world thought of when ICE started making horse draw carriages a thing of the past, and now we love them so much we don’t want to see them go and new technology replace them. As far as the future of this particular property, it’s definitely time to move on and rebuild with an eye towards the future. Yeah the love of auto racing and the fun times had here for many over the years was a good gig , but Nashville as a whole is evolving into something else , something different. It’s time for this area to be something different also, just as SoBo, The Gulch, 12south, The Nations , East Bank etc are examples of evolution and are transforming right before our eyes. The folks at Bristol Motor Speedway have a very good track with  potential for the future, right in Nashville’s back yard in Lebanon, it’s even called Nashville Superspeedway (not Lebanon speedway) and putting that 100 million dollars they talk about into that track and improving upon the racing experience, would be a much better idea than trying to cram whatever they could into a ever increasing dense intercity neighborhood. Yes, I get a lot of your points and understand it’s sometimes hard to let go of fond memories, but sometimes it’s for the best. The Fairgrounds aren’t really The fairgrounds anymore, the transformation has started the Fair has moved on ( yes to Lebanon) and a new stadium and housing are making their mark. It’s time for the race track to evolve and become a better use for the surrounding neighborhood and it’s residents.

Oh it absolutely was. That is why I would say they need to find a way to schedule 10 to 15 events per year on the dragstrip to actually meet the charter requirement and be locked into that for X number of years. 

I figured the Lebanon Speedway would come up again (just like the historic comment which I only apply to the racing surface itself), but comparing the two tracks is apples and oranges. The vast majority of racing at the Fairgrounds can't go out to Lebanon because they are completely different facilities. Nascar (and technically IndyCar) are the only series that can use that facility. The local racing cannot work at the large facility like Nashville Superspeedway. While the evolution of Nashville continues, so are sports all around the city. The only reason we have soccer in that location is because MLS is evolving to try and be part of the US mainstream sports and are requiring their own stadiums. Evolution. Nascar's NextGen car is setup to incorporate electric components, so in reality Nascar is setup for the future in that sense. So by modifying the racetrack now, we are working toward a future where Nascar brings EV type racing to the track. Evolution. Nascar's model is also evolving because they realize the shorter tracks are more entertaining within their sphere and they have those tracks already built so they are trying to improve on them. 

I don't have a problem with EVs per say, I think they just aren't as good as we think they are (right now). I think of EVs (in their current state) as the new K-Cups. Everyone loved them at first and thought they were the best thing since sliced bread, but then we realized the repercussions of them. EVs are helping with greenhouse gases for the end user, but we are seeing a lot of issues within the life cycle of EVs. How we are mining the materials to make the batteries is proving very dangerous (Indonesia specifically, there is a Washington Post article too, but I don't have access). Also the batteries cannot be recycled, which raises a valid question of end-of-life for them. Then there is the fact that the EVs we are producing here are so heavy that they are going to cause problems for the roadways and the people on the roadways, especially the ones not in cars. While I think the future will be EVs, I think we have more time with ICEs then most folks really expect.

2 hours ago, Melrose said:

LOLOL.  Bristol's proposal is to literally tear down the entire existing  "historic" speedway and build a new one that is twice as large, and of course, not at all historic.  

Not really true. So what you are saying is the structures are historic? Most racers/race fans will say what is historic is the racing itself and the track itself. Bristol has plans to repave (looks like it is desperately needed), but everything I have been able to find and get questions answered is the the surface will only be repaved (similar to what North Wilkesboro is getting now). I could really care less about the structures around the track, nothing special about those. Banking wouldn't change, track length wouldn't change, the 60+ year history of car racing wouldn't change. What would change is more structures to provide sound protection to the west, a one-of-a-kind sound wall that would wrap around the remainder of the track to help mitigate the sound concerns. ADA access to those who want to attend local races (seeing at the status quo is a lawsuit waiting to happen). 

2 hours ago, Rick Dalton said:

No one cares about Nascar anymore. Metro should just buy the property, bulldoze everything, and create a green space. 

Must be nice to be a troll. Especially seeing as how Metro already owns the property....

[Nash_12South]

If racing is as popular as some are saying, then why is moving it to another, more suitable place, an issue? I don't see other parts of town or other nearby counties lining up  - begging for this track. There are far better uses for this site. 

[Bos2Nash]

4 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

If racing is as popular as some are saying, then why is moving it to another, more suitable place, an issue? I don't see other parts of town or other nearby counties lining up  - begging for this track. There are far better uses for this site. 

I would say because nobody is looking to build a new racetrack. This is an existing track, an existing use and the proponents of the project are looking to renovate and improve upon something that already exists. 

[Luvemtall]

Like I mentioned, if SMI/BMS want to invest upwards of 100 million for the Nashville market then their best bet is in The Superspeedway property. They own multiple 100’s of acres there, and can build a short track to compliment the large one , even enough to build a drag strip and off road / motocross tracks also . Turn it into a Motorsport Mecca !! The land is there, the infrastructure is there and they already own it!! What a recipe for success. Let this issue go, metro can find so many better more suitable uses than an automobile race track. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Luvemtall

[Nash_12South]

32 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

I would say because nobody is looking to build a new racetrack. This is an existing track, an existing use and the proponents of the project are looking to renovate and improve upon something that already exists. 

Maybe I'm not understanding the proposals, but it looks like they essentially will have rebuilt the track when they are done. 

[satalac]

2 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

If racing is as popular as some are saying, then why is moving it to another, more suitable place, an issue? I don't see other parts of town or other nearby counties lining up  - begging for this track. There are far better uses for this site. 

Well we should just tear down the Ryman and build a bigger version of it somewhere else since it could hold more people using that logic. We could have an apartment building there instead. 

Like I said, Nashville is going to lose its character if we keep being so willing to do away with it's history. Nothing like a shiny, nondescript city am I right? 

[Nash_12South]

The Speedway is not the Ryman. History aside, racing doesn’t need to be in Wedgewood Houston in 2023.  

[MLBrumby]

Nothing wrong with NASCAR to complement Nashville's many other attractions. Fortunately it's not a main draw to Nashville, as it's seen better days of public support.  Nashville has embraced Indycar.   It seems NASCAR leaders got too greedy in the early 2000s and moved into markets they shouldn't have at the loss of traditional locations.  I'm a new fan of F1, as a future son in law is a big fan and he's winning me over. As far as the historic FG track, I guess it would be nice to see it saved only if it's viable.

[Nash_12South]

I have nothing against racing. It’s the roar, for several hours over several days that I think will get huge complaints and could hit property values. We lived 1.5 miles from the track, in 12South and could hear the races inside our house with the TV and AC going. It was never more than annoying but sitting outside was rare at those times. There has been too long of a pause in regular racing for newer folks to be aware. I’m used to the interstate roar and train rumblings, this is many times louder.  Soccer doesn’t have the same impact or duration.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nash_12South

[Luvemtall]

2 hours ago, satalac said:

4 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

If racing is as popular as some are saying, then why is moving it to another, more suitable place, an issue? I don't see other parts of town or other nearby counties lining up  - begging for this track. There are far better uses for this site. 

Well we should just tear down the Ryman and build a bigger version of it somewhere else since it could hold more people using that logic

Although the Ryman is still standing,they basically did use that logic as they built a larger Opry house in a different location. This has nothing to do with NASCAR in particular, it’s the location of the venue in a changing city. That was a more remote area back at it’s conception, now it’s becoming a vibrant neighborhood. And I’m sorry but there’s nothing historic about any Of the remaining remains of that worn out venue. Nobody is coming to Nashville to see the “historic “ relics of a beat up race track. And if BMI does what has been suggested, nothing of the old facility will be left anyway. 

[Rick Dalton]

Move the race track out to the country somewhere, it doesn’t belong in that spot

[Argo]

49 minutes ago, Rick Dalton said:

Move the race track out to the country somewhere, it doesn’t belong in that spot

That wouldn't be great. Nate.

[satalac]

14 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Although the Ryman is still standing,they basically did use that logic as they built a larger Opry house in a different location. This has nothing to do with NASCAR in particular, it’s the location of the venue in a changing city. That was a more remote area back at it’s conception, now it’s becoming a vibrant neighborhood. And I’m sorry but there’s nothing historic about any Of the remaining remains of that worn out venue. Nobody is coming to Nashville to see the “historic “ relics of a beat up race track. And if BMI does what has been suggested, nothing of the old facility will be left anyway. 

And yet they still come back to the Ryman because of the history. It's smaller, tougher to park at, older...sound familiar? It's unique. That's why people are fighting to keep racing at the Fairgrounds, or else they would have just said, "yeah, you're right, we have the superspeedway with more seats, better parking, faster cars". 

I get that a lot of people here aren't into racing, but that doesn't mean a lot of people in Nashville aren't. Hell, I don't even watch NASCAR. But as a lifelong Nashvillian, I'd hate to see another Nashville staple get pushed aside for more apartments. I love that the city is growing, but I still want it to feel like Nashville. Maybe I just have flashbacks of Opryland being turned into a mall.

[Luvemtall]

Yeah , I get where you’re coming from. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I totally respect that. Time will tell what comes next, whatever happens shouldn’t divide us . 

[Baronakim]

1 hour ago, satalac said:

And yet they still come back to the Ryman because of the history. It's smaller, tougher to park at, older...sound familiar? It's unique. That's why people are fighting to keep racing at the Fairgrounds, or else they would have just said, "yeah, you're right, we have the superspeedway with more seats, better parking, faster cars". 

I get that a lot of people here aren't into racing, but that doesn't mean a lot of people in Nashville aren't. Hell, I don't even watch NASCAR. But as a lifelong Nashvillian, I'd hate to see another Nashville staple get pushed aside for more apartments. I love that the city is growing, but I still want it to feel like Nashville. Maybe I just have flashbacks of Opryland being turned into a mall.

No, I don't see where you are coming from per se in justifation of the claim of  its 'historic"racing.    IMO the "historic" part ended in 1965 when the  whole shebang burned to the ground.  As to the Ryman, few folks really  grasp how little Nashville thought of it decades ago when Lower Broad was full of pawnshops and porno stores.  It very narrowly escaped demoltion and surviving as a temple of country style country music.  If car racing was so important to Nashville, IMO they never should have torn down Sulphur Dell when it converted to cars.  I CAN however agree that converting the fairgrounds facility to put up more crappy apartments with nasty surface parking is a wrongheaded mistake of the fairgrounds use.  Other than Geodis Park and the new mixed use surrounding development, the rest of the old fairgrounds has been sadly ill developed.   The flea market sheds and and the dog park were particularly disappointing.  I personally would prefer bulldozing all of the lower grounds and converting it  a jewel of a city park.  I think it would be excellent to be developed as an equestrian park for Nashvillians to ride their horses.   Historically, horses were there long before racing cars.  Maybe it could even host an annual steeplechase like the Iriquois?  Dump the cars for good; make it a green space!

Edited November 28, 2023 by Baronakim

[Baronakim]

I am SO happy someone is so easily amused!

 

[Bos2Nash]

18 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

The Speedway is not the Ryman. History aside, racing doesn’t need to be in Wedgewood Houston in 2023.  

Soccer didn't need to be there either, but we welcomed it with open arms and even threw in 10-acres of free land just to sweeten the pot for them. The latter is probably the biggest hangup on getting Metro out of the debt service conversation.

17 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

Nothing wrong with NASCAR to complement Nashville's many other attractions. Fortunately it's not a main draw to Nashville, as it's seen better days of public support.  Nashville has embraced Indycar.   It seems NASCAR leaders got too greedy in the early 2000s and moved into markets they shouldn't have at the loss of traditional locations.  I'm a new fan of F1, as a future son in law is a big fan and he's winning me over. As far as the historic FG track, I guess it would be nice to see it saved only if it's viable.

Nascar and its draw to Nashville has been quite successful and complementary in recent years. Very fitting that this discussion is happening the very week that Nascar is bringing their celebration week back to downtown for the fourth consecutive year. Fitting that this "new proposal" is pushed to the press just before Nascar comes back to town for their annual (and very successful) celebration.

What's kinda nuts to me is everyone seems to be so onboard with the IndyCar race, but that race (while is loads of fun) is literally closing roads and taking up space in the downtown core for multiple weeks every year. The Fairgrounds Speedway is a fixed venue (that can host other events too unlike the IndyCar circuit), with the infrastructure in place for the venue (please don't bring up parking because then we can just devolve into the failures of soccer parking and how they are entirely reliant on the speedway to cover up their failures), it doesn't close roads, there isn't multiple weeks of setup and teardown and IndyCar doesn't bring near the economic value to Nashville as Nascar does (IndyCar does one weekend a year, Nascar is looking at two (maximum) race weekends and brings a week long celebration to town near a very low season). Why is IndyCar applauded and the idea of Nascar denounced? Hell, the IndyCar race is going to even more disruption next year when it creates a closed loop around multiple residential towers! 

The F1 sidebar is an intriguing one because I have become a much bigger fan in recent years myself. My biggest compliant with F1 (and even IndyCar for that matter) is you see the cars for all of 10 seconds a lap. It's very TV oriented. The majority of Nascar circuits you can see the entire field all the way around the track (there are exceptions) so you can see how just the slightest hiccup on track can effect things. There is also a certain simplicity (loosely using that term) to the car that is more relatable to many people. I took my sister's boyfriend to a Nascar race a couple years ago and he was adamant he wouldn't like it at all (he is a huge F1 fan), but came out of it with a different opinion entirely because he understood the differences in the racing.

2 hours ago, satalac said:

And yet they still come back to the Ryman because of the history. It's smaller, tougher to park at, older...sound familiar? It's unique. That's why people are fighting to keep racing at the Fairgrounds, or else they would have just said, "yeah, you're right, we have the superspeedway with more seats, better parking, faster cars". 

I get that a lot of people here aren't into racing, but that doesn't mean a lot of people in Nashville aren't. Hell, I don't even watch NASCAR. But as a lifelong Nashvillian, I'd hate to see another Nashville staple get pushed aside for more apartments. I love that the city is growing, but I still want it to feel like Nashville. Maybe I just have flashbacks of Opryland being turned into a mall.

I hate to use the terms "authentic Nashville" or "unique to Nashville" because that is so hard to define, but you are not wrong. I have been saying for awhile that Nashville has the opportunity to have 3 distinct entertainment nodes with Wedgewood Houston, East Bank and Baseball (whether is at TSU or their supposed alternative site). 3 distinct entertainment/mixed-use nodes that could be unique compared to our comparable cities. Those 3 distinct nodes also provide the opportunity to connect our city more. We can connect via transit, connect via development, connect via uses. 

[satalac]

8 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Yeah , I get where you’re coming from. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I totally respect that. Time will tell what comes next, whatever happens shouldn’t divide us . 

I appreciate the sentiment. I know that not everyone likes the track, and I can understand why. We could definitely have worse problems as a city. 

7 hours ago, Baronakim said:

No, I don't see where you are coming from per se in justifation of the claim of  its 'historic"racing.    IMO the "historic" part ended in 1965 when the  whole shebang burned to the ground.  As to the Ryman, few folks really  grasp how little Nashville thought of it decades ago when Lower Broad was full of pawnshops and porno stores.  It very narrowly escaped demoltion and surviving as a temple of country style country music.  If car racing was so important to Nashville, IMO they never should have torn down Sulphur Dell when it converted to cars.  I CAN however agree that converting the fairgrounds facility to put up more crappy apartments with nasty surface parking is a wrongheaded mistake of the fairgrounds use.  Other than Geodis Park and the new mixed use surrounding development, the rest of the old fairgrounds has been sadly ill developed.   The flea market sheds and and the dog park were particularly disappointing.  I personally would prefer bulldozing all of the lower grounds and converting it  a jewel of a city park.  I think it would be excellent to be developed as an equestrian park for Nashvillians to ride their horses.   Historically, horses were there long before racing cars.  Maybe it could even host an annual steeplechase like the Iriquois?  Dump the cars for good; make it a green space!

There was still plenty of historic racing after the grandstand fire. Dale Earnhardt, Bobby Allison, Sterling Marlin Bobby Hamilton, Darrell Waltrip and Bill Elliot all raced there. And once again, the Ryman was almost torn down, but is now a revered historical place in Nashville, showing that even places once thought lost, can still be improved and used to their potential. I definitely agree with you that the newest plan is a terrible use of the space. That's probably the thing I'm most against. At least give us something that is somewhat intriguing. I do like your idea of an equestrian park, but I'm sure then people would complain about the smell. 

[Baronakim]

12 hours ago, satalac said:

I appreciate the sentiment. I know that not everyone likes the track, and I can understand why. We could definitely have worse problems as a city. 

There was still plenty of historic racing after the grandstand fire. Dale Earnhardt, Bobby Allison, Sterling Marlin Bobby Hamilton, Darrell Waltrip and Bill Elliot all raced there. And once again, the Ryman was almost torn down, but is now a revered historical place in Nashville, showing that even places once thought lost, can still be improved and used to their potential. I definitely agree with you that the newest plan is a terrible use of the space. That's probably the thing I'm most against. At least give us something that is somewhat intriguing. I do like your idea of an equestrian park, but I'm sure then people would complain about the smell. 

"Historic racing" is rather  a dicey term IMO.  While all of those drivers are indeed  famous,  no specific historic event distinguishs their presence as particularly more "historic" than their appearance at any other track event.  Now if the fairgrounds track achieved some the same importance as the Augusta and the Masters in golfing,  I think your opinion would have some heavier weight.  Horseapples are mostly hay due to the inefficincy of equine digestion systems and do not smell like dogcrap.   Also my suggestion did not include any kind of stabling facility which could conceivably have offensive odors, just riding.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Baronakim

[Nash_12South]

I think if the plan was to restore the speedway to 1965, then comparisons to the Ryman might be equivalent. But the new speedway plans would be akin to tearing the Ryman down and building an all new 3000 seat venue.

[bnacincy]

Nothing in Nashville can be compared to the Ryman, much less the Fairgrounds Speedway.

What happened in the Ryman put Nashville on the map, pure and simple.

Nothing else comes close.

Ask British Airways-they are wanting to replace the 787 that services Nashville with a bigger airplane.

You can thank the Ryman for that-not the Speedway, not even the Parthenon.

And lemme say this-the Fairgrounds is no longer the Fairgrounds anymore-the State Fair has moved to Wilson County.

As a consequence I think a referendum is needed in Metro.

Let the people decide-amend the Charter to put something there that would be a greater benefit to the community than a speedway-or keep it as is and let Bristol redevelop it.

Edited November 29, 2023 by bnacincy

[PruneTracy]

On 11/28/2023 at 2:04 PM, Bos2Nash said:

Why is IndyCar applauded and the idea of Nascar denounced?

Frankly, because the demographics of IndyCar fans are more palatable to new Nashville and Wedgewood-Houston residents than the demographics of NASCAR fans. Same reason soccer is embraced in spite of the same traffic/noise concerns for 17+ weekends a year instead of two, or why EV drag racing (which has minimal local or national presence compared to any of the aforementioned events/sports) is considered a viable replacement that satisfies the charter.

If you want to talk about who doesn't care about the history of Nashville it's the people who don't have a history in Nashville.

[titanfan24]

Let me say this:

I am NOT a big racing fan......but as a 40-something year old native who's grandparents lived three blocks from Fair Park and the Speedway on Allison Place.......the racing was there decades before the transients.......so.........can we keep one thing in Nashville where it is/was?

Again, not trying to be a jerk......but let the natives have this one. 

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, PruneTracy said:

Frankly, because the demographics of IndyCar fans are more palatable to new Nashville and Wedgewood-Houston residents than the demographics of NASCAR fans. Same reason soccer is embraced in spite of the same traffic/noise concerns for 17+ weekends a year instead of two, or why EV drag racing (which has minimal local or national presence compared to any of the aforementioned events/sports) is considered a viable replacement that satisfies the charter.

I mean, at least someone is willing to come out and say it. Nascar has done a pretty good job in recent years with their demographic challenges, but there are definitely plenty of the stereotype around. I cannot defend the stereotypical fans that many categorize all Nascar fans into.

On 7/26/2023 at 12:25 PM, Bos2Nash said:

Folks speaking against the racetrack did bring up the popular - but incorrect - notion that Nascar is dying. It isn't. Nascar is negotiating its next TV deal as we speak. They are finishing up a 10-year, $8.2 billion TV deal with Fox and NBC, which equates to about $820 million per year for 4 to 5 exhibition races and 36 points races. Nascar is also expected to want a 10% to 15% increase on its upcoming TV deal. For comparison, MLS just signed (12/2022) a 10-year, $2.5 billion with Apple TV with an additional supplement with Fox while covering alot more content. The NHL also signed new 7-year contracts back in 2021 with Disney and Turner Sports worth a total of about $4.4 billion, again with covering a lot more content. This puts Nascar on par or even a little ahead of two of the four major sports (especially when broken down to a per event breakdown) in the US. Viewership fluctuates year to year and race to race, with the biggest swings are when the races get pushed to secondary networks (like FS1 instead of Fox). The tracks also are continually announcing sellouts event after event. Most recently, Pocono Raceway announced their sellout this past weekend, hosting their largest crowd since 2010!

 Quoting myself from the Geodis Park breakdown because the regurgitated "Nascar is dying" comment was made upthread again. If Nascar is dying, someone needs to tell these media networks. Nascar announced today their new media rights contracts with four networks. Starting in 2025 and running through 2031 Nascar Cup Series will air on FOX Sports, NBC Sports, Amazon’s Prime Video and TNT Sports, a division of Warner Bros. Discovery. The Xfinity Series is exclusively on CW (previously announced) and the Craftsman Truck Series will be on FS1. This seven year deal is reported to worth $7.7 billion dollars (or $1.1 billion per year) which is well above the 10% to 15% increase Nascar was seeking. For a dying sport, that is a very nice penny to pull in from some big players.