Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[bwithers1]

I like this rendering.  I was wondering how a "straight shot" would work out over the railroad tracks.  I'm glad that the city is going with a curvilinear version.  There is a curvilinear, snake-like metallic bridge in Chicago's Millennium Park that gets people over Columbus Parkway that is pretty cool and helps to break up the boxiness that Chicago's grid system can create.

 

But this statement from the article isn't necessarily true: 

 

“Even though you can see the Gulch from SoBro, there’s no straight shot to get there by foot or on bike,” Dean said in a statement, alluding to the railroad tracks that carve a chasm through downtown.

“Once the pedestrian bridge opens, you could eat dinner at one of the great restaurants in the Gulch and then stroll over the bridge to catch a show or hockey game at the Bridgestone Arena. This connectivity will add even more energy to two of the most vibrant areas in our downtown area.”

 

Newsflash:  one can already eat at the M Street restaurants, which are one block off of Demonbreun, and walk across the Demonbreun street bridge (which is also a designated bikeway) to the back entrance of Bridgestone.

 

It's not that there is NO connectivity between the Gulch and Sobro, it's just that this bridge will create MORE connectivity.  I'm glad that it will be illuminated and that there will be green space incorporated as well.

Edited September 26, 2013 by bwithers1

[dmillsphoto]

I am definitely digging this.

[Leif]

I like this rendering. I was wondering how a "straight shot" would work out over the railroad tracks. I'm glad that the city is going with a curvilinear version. There is a curvilinear, snake-like metallic bridge in Chicago's Millennium Park that gets people over Columbus Parkway that is pretty cool and helps to break up the boxiness that Chicago's grid system can create.

But this statement from the article isn't necessarily true:

“Even though you can see the Gulch from SoBro, there’s no straight shot to get there by foot or on bike,” Dean said in a statement, alluding to the railroad tracks that carve a chasm through downtown.

“Once the pedestrian bridge opens, you could eat dinner at one of the great restaurants in the Gulch and then stroll over the bridge to catch a show or hockey game at the Bridgestone Arena. This connectivity will add even more energy to two of the most vibrant areas in our downtown area.”

Newsflash: one can already eat at the M Street restaurants, which are one block off of Demonbreun, and walk across the Demonbreun street bridge (which is also a designated bikeway) to the back entrance of Bridgestone.

It's not that there is NO connectivity between the Gulch and Sobro, it's just that this bridge will create MORE connectivity. I'm glad that it will be illuminated and that there will be green space incorporated as well.

From the perspective of someone living in the area Demonbruen feels a tad out of the way, possibly because that corner of 12th is deadzone. Also you CAN walk up 8th it justs feels sketchy at night.

This looks cool but two 8 mil bridges, with the second connecting Pine or McGavock to Midtown might be cooler.

[Guest]

I like the design and the comprehensive approach. I, of course, dislike the price tag but it seems the money had already been allocated. I do believe that this expenditure should be considered when developers come looking for TIF in the 'bridge' area. These public infrastructure expenditures should not go hand-in-hand with TIF but should be instead of TIF, IMO.

I would expect the adjoining Cummins Station parking lot to quickly be developed. This will spur development down to 8th and place additional pressure on the homeless support services located in that corridor to move... a good thing.

[bigeasy]

I def like the design of the bridge, but I still do not see the justification for building something so expensive that will save maybe 1/4 mile on the walk to downtown. Is it really that difficult to walk up 12th to Demonbreun Street? I guess I just can't understand this since when I am going around downtown I am on my bicycle looking for ways to make the trip longer.

[bwithers1]

I agree that this amount of city investment is enough taxpayer incentive for development.  We're paying to bring people to your door, for pete's sake.  The Division Street Connector will also help out the Gulch a lot. 

 

I'm not sure about the development of the Cummins Station parking lot.  Cummins Station does not have structured parking, so this is where a lot of those workers park, if I am not mistaken.  And is this lot also shared with Cannery Ballroom/Mercy Lounge/High Watt?  It that lot gets developed, it will need to have structured parking to support the existing parking needs, not to mention the increased parking needs from the new development. 

I like the design and the comprehensive approach. I, of course, dislike the price tag but it seems the money had already been allocated. I do believe that this expenditure should be considered when developers come looking for TIF in the 'bridge' area. These public infrastructure expenditures should not go hand-in-hand with TIF but should be instead of TIF, IMO.

I would expect the adjoining Cummins Station parking lot to quickly be developed. This will spur development down to 8th and place additional pressure on the homeless support services located in that corridor to move... a good thing.

[Leif]

I would expect the adjoining Cummins Station parking lot to quickly be developed. This will spur development down to 8th and place additional pressure on the homeless support services located in that corridor to move... a good thing.

As a generalization why do the shelters get beat on but TSC and Menages nobody seems to have an issue with.

[UTgrad09]

I like this rendering.  I was wondering how a "straight shot" would work out over the railroad tracks.  I'm glad that the city is going with a curvilinear version.  There is a curvilinear, snake-like metallic bridge in Chicago's Millennium Park that gets people over Columbus Parkway that is pretty cool and helps to break up the boxiness that Chicago's grid system can create.

 

But this statement from the article isn't necessarily true: 

 

“Even though you can see the Gulch from SoBro, there’s no straight shot to get there by foot or on bike,” Dean said in a statement, alluding to the railroad tracks that carve a chasm through downtown.

“Once the pedestrian bridge opens, you could eat dinner at one of the great restaurants in the Gulch and then stroll over the bridge to catch a show or hockey game at the Bridgestone Arena. This connectivity will add even more energy to two of the most vibrant areas in our downtown area.”

 

Newsflash:  one can already eat at the M Street restaurants, which are one block off of Demonbreun, and walk across the Demonbreun street bridge (which is also a designated bikeway) to the back entrance of Bridgestone.

 

It's not that there is NO connectivity between the Gulch and Sobro, it's just that this bridge will create MORE connectivity.  I'm glad that it will be illuminated and that there will be green space incorporated as well.

 

You're absolutely right. At best, the pedestrian bridge saves about 600 ft of walking...which is nice. I'm not sure the 600 ft is significantly hindering people now or not, as the extreme only really applies to Velocity and maybe Pine St Flats, where you have to backtrack to 12th. The difference as you approach ICON to about 200 ft.

 

More than anything, I think it will be a key piece when future development arises in SoBro, especially near the roundabout. And I have no doubt it will be more attractive to pedestrians, since it will be a nice break from the busier roadways. And I do think that it will make pedestrians really *feel* more connected to downtown/SoBro. 

 

I would like them to consider adding a V-shaped split at the Gulch end to invite the southern end of the Gulch to use the bridge as well (again, it's only a matter of feet we are talking about, but think about the Shelby St Bridge split near LP Field).

[bwithers1]

I have never patronized either, but my understanding is that TSC and Menages are member-only clubs and their members presumably value privacy and keep themselves and their activities inside.  Whatever you think about those activities, they keep it discreet and they don't bother anybody else.

 

Whereas the shelters tend to have folks sort of aimlessly "hanging around" the area.  While many of the shelter clients don't cause any problems, enough of them do cause problems that they cast a poor impression on the rest.  Police records about complaints in that area are pretty well known.  In some cases, the very fact that some of the shelters will turn away people who are intoxicated produces the result of dumping intoxicated, desperate people on the nearby streets rather than getting them off the streets. That can lead to apprehension about wondering what to expect when encountering those individuals on the streets.

[Guest]

I am not taking a moral position, but the simple answer is that strip clubs (and I assume group sex venues) are very popular in cities that have a thriving convention industry.

Btw, the pressure I am referring to is economic, but of course politics plays a role as you can rarely separate the two. 

 

As a generalization why do the shelters get beat on but TSC and Menages nobody seems to have an issue with.

[WillTitans]

Speaking of the division street connector, when will that happen?

 

I remember reading an article earlier this year about the city fixing the street grid down in the SoBro area (which needs to be done), but last time I was down there I don't think anything was being done...is this more of a long term vision, or are they going to get to work on it soon?

 

 

I agree that this amount of city investment is enough taxpayer incentive for development.  We're paying to bring people to your door, for pete's sake.  The Division Street Connector will also help out the Gulch a lot. 

 

I'm not sure about the development of the Cummins Station parking lot.  Cummins Station does not have structured parking, so this is where a lot of those workers park, if I am not mistaken.  And is this lot also shared with Cannery Ballroom/Mercy Lounge/High Watt?  It that lot gets developed, it will need to have structured parking to support the existing parking needs, not to mention the increased parking needs from the new development. 

[Leif]

I am not taking a moral position, but the simple answer is that strip clubs (and I assume group sex venues) are very popular in cities that have a thriving convention industry.

Interestingly The Scene covered this a while back:

http://m.nashvillescene.com/nashville/strip-clubs-are-the-secret-backbone-of-the-convention-business-right-think-again/Content?oid=3345894

[BnaBreaker]

I sure hope they do.  That's definitely a relic of the 70s/80s if I ever saw one. 

[BnaBreaker]

That thing is beautiful and, in my opinion, well worth the price tag.  I agree that at first glance, this might seem a silly expense merely to save 600 feet of walking, but although one can access The Gulch on foot via Demonbreun, there is still a major physical separation brought on by the railroad tracks and, more notably, a major physiological separation for pedestrians that might hinder them from making the journey on foot.  This bridge, in physical terms, may only lop a few hundred feet off of the walk, but it creates a sort of 'grand entrance' to The Gulch, which is huge in terms of making the walk exponentially more inviting and feel more worth the trip. 

[Leif]

That thing is beautiful and, in my opinion, well worth the price tag. I agree that at first glance, this might seem a silly expense merely to save 600 feet of walking, but although one can access The Gulch on foot via Demonbreun, there is still a major physical separation brought on by the railroad tracks and, more notably, a major physiological separation for pedestrians that might hinder them from making the journey on foot. This bridge, in physical terms, may only lop a few hundred feet off of the walk, but it creates a sort of 'grand entrance' to The Gulch, which is huge in terms of making the walk exponentially more inviting and feel more worth the trip.

Especially if they drop some residential into the Cokesbury site, this'd make the whole area feel basically like one neighborhood in a way it doesn't now.

[BnaBreaker]

Especially if they drop some residential into the Cokesbury site, this'd make the whole area feel basically like one neighborhood in a way it doesn't now.

 

I totally agree.  And beyond that, since this bridge will be visible from afar, it creates interest in people (say, tourists or conventioneers) in the general vicinity that aren't all that aware of The Gulch and what it has to offer.  After a convention, people might funnel out of the MCC in the mood for a night out, see the bright shining beacon that is this bridge, and end up wandering in that direction due to their curiosity being piqued rather than making a B-line for Broadway. 

 

To me, creating a great pedestrian experience at street level is worth every penny a city can afford to pump into it.  Sure, technically, people can walk down Demonbreun, past some dark alleys and empty lots, but if Nashville as a city is going to rely on that connection point to get people into The Gulch, then they'll have to get used to being disappointed by the numbers of people actually making the journey.  The island paradise might be visible from the shore, but if you have to swim through shark-infested waters to get there, most people aren't going to feel it's worth it to make the trip.

Edited September 26, 2013 by BnaBreaker

[CenterHill]

Agree it's hard to see this as a "prime" Germantown site given the way it's boxed in by the Jefferson St bridge and the clover leaf.    But if the street grid were normalized, there is real potential.   The Madison side would share the same corner with the evolving 4th and Madison.    

 

self edit: oops, it doesn't share that corner.    Christie Cookie is on the corner of 3rd/Madison, even better! 

Edited September 27, 2013 by CenterHill

[Guest]

Well I have as much anecdotal evidence to the contrary as the writer offers. Reading the poorly researched article you have a a idea that the writer wishes there to be no correlation between conventioneers and gentlemen's clubs and yet does not really support that point. 

I am sure the MCC will get their share or family conventions and yet I would surmise that if we have not already seen a recent influx of adult entertainment establishments there are some on the way.

But again, I am not taking a position on the adult entertainment industry.

 

Interestingly The Scene covered this a while back:

http://m.nashvillescene.com/nashville/strip-clubs-are-the-secret-backbone-of-the-convention-business-right-think-again/Content?oid=3345894

Edited September 26, 2013 by Guest

[CenterHill]

True, the Demonbreun viaduct does provide pedestrian access, but as those of you who have walked it know, it's not a great pedestrian experience.   The sidewalks are narrow compared to standard urban sidewalks, putting walkers in close proximity to the traffic lanes, and traffic moves pretty fast on the bridge.   Imagine a group of convention goers trying to walk together to the Gulch, the group becomes single file on the bridge.   The sense is that you're in a vehicular traffic corridor where foot traffic feels a bit out of place.   The pedestrian bridge will be a much better experience, in addition to being more of a "straight shot", at least to where the activity seems to be developing today.     

[chelovek]

Speaking of the division street connector, when will that happen?

 

I remember reading an article earlier this year about the city fixing the street grid down in the SoBro area (which needs to be done), but last time I was down there I don't think anything was being done...is this more of a long term vision, or are they going to get to work on it soon?

 

There is a public meeting about the division street extension on Oct. 2. Details here: http://www.nashville.gov/News-Media/Calendar-of-Events/Event-Details/ID/1343/begin/10-2-2013/Division-Street-Extension-Public-Meeting.aspx

 

Re: the pedestrian bridge. I want to love it. There is room for improvement though.

1) The bridge is going to have to be pretty tall on the cummins station side not to block access to their loading docks. I worry that we'll end up with a nearly vertical approach like on the west side of the shelby street ped. bridge, which sucks for cyclists.

2) Bicycle access from 10th looks incredibly awkward. If you aren't coming from the direction of Demonbreun, you'll have to do a quick 180 across traffic to make the approach. The rendering has the ramp dumping onto the sidewalk, which will need to be widened and have a ramp added to be functional. Hopefully the engineering phase will flesh this out in a way that doesn't heighten bike/ped conflicts.

 

Ideally, the road down to the loading docks would be to the right of the bridge in rendering rather than the left. This would allow for a much gentler grade off of the ped bridge, as well as access to be aligned with Lea, which is a dumb little street that should be turned into a neighborhood greenway by limiting auto access. It would help justify the expense of a $16mil bridge, imo, by establishing an active transportation corridor and not just a fancy looking bridge. Neighborhood greenways can be installed very inexpensively by adding curbs or planters at key intersections.

 

The cynic in me says that this and the baseball stadium are the high profile projects that will hit the chopping block to make local expenditures on the AMP and riverfront redevelopment seem more appealing- a kind of engineered give and take.

Edited September 26, 2013 by chelovek

[Leif]

I just hope none of these convention goers come across this bridge looking for everyday conveniences.

[dmillsphoto]

Tony is on fire. New Condo project on his board...

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2013/09/tony-giarratana-is-planning-a-downtown.html

[satalac]

Tony is on fire. New Condo project revealed.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2013/09/tony-giarratana-is-planning-a-downtown.html

I like his drive, I just hope he can finish. Plenty of awesome projects, just waiting to see if at least one will get built. They keep talking like SoBro is a done deal in all these articles interviewing him. It would be amazing if he built all of them. 

 

The next question is where it would be. I know he owns the lot where the Signature and 505CST have been proposed, but I'm not sure if he'd finally use it on a condo. I'm thinking SoBro would make more sense, but I'm not sure what lots are available to him other than the ones he has SoBro and Sheet Music planned on. 

Edited September 26, 2013 by satalac

[bigeasy]

Great news. It really sounds like Sobro Tower is a go. But honestly it is hard for me to get excited about a Tony high rise proposal since they never end of happening. But I guess it is better that Tony just never starts construction rather than the Palmer approach and dig a huge hole and then stop.

Edited September 26, 2013 by bigeasy

[Leif]

Great news. It really sounds like Sobro Tower is a go. But honestly it is hard for me to get excited about a Tony high rise proposal since they never end of happening. But I guess it is better that Tony just never starts construction rather than the Palmer approach and dig a huge hole and then stop.

Yeah this seems like link bait more than anything.