Charlotte MLB Team Speculation

[elrodvt]

To spend tax $ on this in light of NC's inability to fund state and local basic priorities is irresponsible. I doubt that will affect our leaders decision making though.

I still believe this is beyond a long shot but I'll be first in line to buy tickets if it happens! 

[Hushpuppy321]

I generally would be For a State Incentivized Deal to bring MLB to North Carolina, although I agree with @kermitthat the State using Taxpayer funding towards Mass Transit would be better.

Edited January 6 by Hushpuppy321

[KJHburg]

I remember someone saying Raleigh Durham has no big companies to sponsor pro sports etc and I said I am sure NC based companies even those in Charlotte would be interested.  

well here is a new example"

""The Carolina Hurricanes are the first major professional sports team to land a sponsorship deal with Charlotte-based Nucor, the nation’s largest steel producer and recycler.

The National Hockey League team in Raleigh will begin wearing a Nucor patch on its jerseys tomorrow night when it hosts the Blues at PNC Arena. Terms of the agreement were not immediately available, but most NHL jersey patch deals are valued in the mid-seven-figure range annually and league rules dictate that they must run for a minimum of three years.

Oak View Group represented the Hurricanes in their search for a jersey sponsor and negotiations. ""

so Nucor a Charlotte based manufacturer is sponsoring the Hurricanes up in Raleigh.

Nucor signs on as jersey sponsor for NHL team Carolina Hurricanes - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

 

in terms of state funding which may or may not be available for a MLB stadium but what if NC State also played their games there and since there is only a little overlap of a season it could happen.  Just like the Hurricanes with the NC State basketball program. 

[kermit]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

in terms of state funding which may or may not be available for a MLB stadium but what if NC State also played their games there and since there is only a little overlap of a season it could happen.  Just like the Hurricanes with the NC State basketball program. 

There is a HUGE scale difference between average college baseball attendance and MLB attendance. It would be miserable for NCSU to host games with 500 fans (this would be a big number for a college game early in the season, they play in COLD weather) in a stadium built for 35,000. Doak Field (where the Pack play) has a capacity of 3,000, the ballpark in Chapel Hill (the Heel's have been very successful lately) has a capacity of 4,100.   I don't know of any college teams that play in MLB parks.

Edited January 6 by kermit

[teeg]

10 hours ago, kermit said:

There is a HUGE scale difference between average college baseball attendance and MLB attendance. It would be miserable for NCSU to host games with 500 fans (this would be a big number for a college game early in the season, they play in COLD weather) in a stadium built for 35,000. Doak Field (where the Pack play) has a capacity of 3,000, the ballpark in Chapel Hill (the Heel's have been very successful lately) has a capacity of 4,100.   I don't know of any college teams that play in MLB parks.

I agree -- it would be miserable.  The largest college stadium that I know of is the one in Omaha where they play the College World Series, Charles Schwab Field Omaha, which has a capacity of 24,000.  It's smaller than the smallest MLB stadium by a good bit.  In addition to hosting the CWS, it is also the home field for Creighton.  Check this page for photos from somebody's visit during one of their home games:

https://www.stadiumjourney.com/stadiums/td-ameritrade-park-omaha-s2023

[Hushpuppy321]

That’s it - Charlotte’s hope of an MLB Franchise is over…. So says this lady today on Charlotte Talks (WFAE) this morning on discussions about Sports in the City.  Said she doesn’t see Charlotte being an MLB City.  I guess Raleigh is more MLB material.

[kermit]

In terms of general (not Charlotte specific) possible MLB relocations, it sounds like the White Sox are now looking at building a new ballpark in the South Loop. If they do it right the Rosevelt-Clark location discussed briefly in this report it could be pretty great, adjacent to loop w best views in baseball.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/sports/chicago-white-sox-new-stadium-south-loop

Edited January 18 by kermit

[kermit]

Off topic….

In minor league news at the other end of the state: the city of Wilson has purchased downtown land (near the Whilrlygig park and only a couple of blocks from the train station) for a new Class A ballpark to host the relocated Mudcats. The hope is for play to start in Wilson in 2026 (although I don’t know that any funding was identified to build the actual ballpark).

I am excited about this news because: 1) I never really liked the Mudcats stadium because of its cow-pasture vibe 2) If the ballpark gets built,  Wilson will have a pretty impressive downtown (on the Eastern NC scale of measurement) and it becomes one of the most attractive distant Triangle bedroom communities. [although this would kill off a pretty solid Coastal Plain league team, the Tobs]

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2024/01/24/wilson-nc-minor-league-baseball-stadium-mudcats.html

Edited January 25 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Given this news does that make it any easier for MLB push in Raleigh now that they have left Wake County?  

on another note the Whirligig park should be on your list of places to visit in NC.

Home (wilsonwhirligigpark.org)

 

[kermit]

No to suggest this changes anything about the very low probability of Charlotte landing MLB this cycle, but the Orioles sale was announced yesterday and it appears that most knowledgeable folks are calling the $1.7 billion price surprisingly "low".

Don't cry for the Angelos', they bought the team in 1993 for $173 million.

Quote

The deal might work for Angelos. The question is whether it will create a downward ripple effect on the valuations of other teams going forward.

https://theathletic.com/5242865/2024/02/01/baltimore-orioles-sale-valuation/

 

Edited February 1 by kermit

[Windsurfer]

13 hours ago, kermit said:

No to suggest this changes anything about the very low probability of Charlotte landing MLB this cycle, but the Orioles sale was announced yesterday and it appears that most knowledgeable folks are calling the $1.7 billion price surprisingly "low".

Don't cry for the Angelos', they bought the team in 1993 for $173 million.

https://theathletic.com/5242865/2024/02/01/baltimore-orioles-sale-valuation/

 

Maybe it'll create a downward trend for ticket prices.

[Rufus]

21 hours ago, kermit said:

No to suggest this changes anything about the very low probability of Charlotte landing MLB this cycle, but the Orioles sale was announced yesterday and it appears that most knowledgeable folks are calling the $1.7 billion price surprisingly "low".

Don't cry for the Angelos', they bought the team in 1993 for $173 million.

https://theathletic.com/5242865/2024/02/01/baltimore-orioles-sale-valuation/

 

No shade to Baltimore, but I would say it shows the value of smaller market teams compared to the major markets: Boston, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta...maybe Philly and Washington. 

Smaller markets would be Milwaukee, MSP, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Denver, Vegas(Oakland), Tampa, Detroit (wild for a 5m metro, but yes). I believe this because these markets don't garner that starpower seen in other markets. I'd maybe put Atlanta here, but given their success over the last 5 years, it would be wild to think they aren't a standard for other markets. 

I also don't think a low valuation is a bad thing. These smaller market teams have to be run on thin margins to make it work. They don't have the appeal that the major markets have, but they still are able to pull it off. 

[eastsider]

The Miller Group in Salt Lake City has released renderings of their proposed 100-acre development which includes a ballpark for a potential expansion team.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/2/15/24073517/baseball-expansion-salt-lake-city-mlb-larry-miller-company-project-west-side

[KJHburg]

Was up in Durham today and my socials prompted these stats to me so I downloaded them.  Charlotte's 60 mile radius is about the same size.   But a MLB team needs to come to NC. 

[Tyrone Wiggum]

On 2/17/2024 at 8:29 PM, KJHburg said:

Was up in Durham today and my socials prompted these stats to me so I downloaded them.  Charlotte's 60 mile radius is about the same size.   But a MLB team needs to come to NC. 

Now wait just a damn minute! Dave Stewart is worth 10 million dollars are you suggesting undercapitalized ownership is detrimental to running a Major League Baseball. Hang on I've got a Miami area code calling me.

[J-Rob]

Interesting list, which aligns with what many of us have said. Lack of obvious stadium location and lack of ownership group make Charlotte a hard sell vs. Nashville. MLB is unlikely to choose both TN and Carolina.

The article also mentions Nashville is likely more alluring than Raleigh.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39563422/mlb-expansion-potential-cities-candidates-teams-austin-montreal-nashville-orlando-portland-raleigh-salt-lake-city

Charlotte:

Nashville:

Raleigh:

[smeagolsfree]

Sorry guys, I do not get it either. It seems as if the Music City Stars organization has some sort of spell over the MLB or has information, they are not telling anyone. The mayor has been quite clear that if the MLB wants to come to Nashville, they will have to self-fund it with a rich ownership team to build the stadium with their own funds. The Stars just this week announced a partnership with Mortenson Companies to access to 5 possible stadium sites in the Metro area. These sites are not in just Davidson County but also in Williamson and Rutherford. They could get backing from one of the other outlying counties with plenty of money to spend. If I had money to bet, my money would be on Willaimson that is the closest to the downtown area with the richest county in the state and one of the richest in the nation. 

It would not be the first time an MLB team would be based outside the city they are supposed to be in. I do not think they will go on the East Bank as they can't afford the land there. Besides the land on the EB is pretty much planned for at this point unless they go to the scrap yard site which is still owned by Carl Ichan, and he will not let it go for pennies on the dollar and lots of remediation has to be done and the soil is contaminated. The land by TSU will be free but a crappy location. Lots of infrastructure work to be done for a stadium. The roads are not suited for that kind of traffic to get in and out of that location.

[DMann]

I see the owner of the White Sox is threatening to move the team and has mentioned Nashville as a likely spot

 

[carolina1792]

4 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Sorry guys, I do not get it either. It seems as if the Music City Stars organization has some sort of spell over the MLB or has information, they are not telling anyone. The mayor has been quite clear that if the MLB wants to come to Nashville, they will have to self-fund it with a rich ownership team to build the stadium with their own funds. The Stars just this week announced a partnership with Mortenson Companies to access to 5 possible stadium sites in the Metro area. These sites are not in just Davidson County but also in Williamson and Rutherford. They could get backing from one of the other outlying counties with plenty of money to spend. If I had money to bet, my money would be on Willaimson that is the closest to the downtown area with the richest county in the state and one of the richest in the nation. 

It would not be the first time an MLB team would be based outside the city they are supposed to be in. I do not think they will go on the East Bank as they can't afford the land there. Besides the land on the EB is pretty much planned for at this point unless they go to the scrap yard site which is still owned by Carl Ichan, and he will not let it go for pennies on the dollar and lots of remediation has to be done and the soil is contaminated. The land by TSU will be free but a crappy location. Lots of infrastructure work to be done for a stadium. The roads are not suited for that kind of traffic to get in and out of that location.

North Carolina suffers from not being very prominent in popular culture. Nashville doesn't have this issue.  The average Americans doesn't see the difference in size and economy of Nashville vs a big metro like Houston.  Also, investors are hoping to make a Las Vegas of the East.  

[smeagolsfree]

2 hours ago, DMann said:

I see the owner of the White Sox is threatening to move the team and has mentioned Nashville as a likely spot

 

Who know what will happen in Chicago.  Jerry Reinsdorf’s White Sox era takes another turn with new stadium push - The Athletic

Al Capone may come back from the dead and buy the team. The bottom line is he will not get taxpayer dollars in Nashville.

16 minutes ago, carolina1792 said:

North Carolina suffers from not being very prominent in popular culture. Nashville doesn't have this issue.  The average Americans doesn't see the difference in size and economy of Nashville vs a big metro like Houston.  Also, investors are hoping to make a Las Vegas of the East.  

Lots of tourism dollars flow into Nashville like Vegas, so that is a huge factor too.

[KJHburg]

18 hours ago, carolina1792 said:

North Carolina suffers from not being very prominent in popular culture. Nashville doesn't have this issue.  The average Americans doesn't see the difference in size and economy of Nashville vs a big metro like Houston.  Also, investors are hoping to make a Las Vegas of the East.  

True but when the facts are presented things like TV market and population will rise as supposedly this decision will be made by the owners after being presented a list provided by consultants.  People have underestimated NC for last 300 years but we have overcome.  We are between South Carolina and Virgina which dominated the colonial south and up really until the Civil War.  Richmond and Charlotte were the same size until the 1960s or so and we are now twice as big as them.  The story of Raleigh is even more amazing.  Raleigh was a very small city compared to Richmond but now Raleigh metro (not even counting Durham) is bigger than metro Richmond.  Together of course Raleigh Durham is bigger than Nashville.  People count out NC at their own risk and our rapid growth proves it.  

[Take2]

21 hours ago, DMann said:

I see the owner of the White Sox is threatening to move the team and has mentioned Nashville as a likely spot

 

Milwaukee,  Minneapolis, Tampa Bay have ALL used the QC as their go to city when they get pushback from whatever city they were getting pushback from about $$$. Charlotte's been in the MLB business for 30yrs already so there's that...

Edited February 24 by Take2

[Professor]

Carolina 1792,

Pleases define "popular culture."  

On 2/21/2024 at 10:56 AM, J-Rob said:

Interesting list, which aligns with what many of us have said. Lack of obvious stadium location and lack of ownership group make Charlotte a hard sell vs. Nashville. MLB is unlikely to choose both TN and Carolina.

The article also mentions Nashville is likely more alluring than Raleigh.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39563422/mlb-expansion-potential-cities-candidates-teams-austin-montreal-nashville-orlando-portland-raleigh-salt-lake-city

Charlotte:

Nashville:

Raleigh:

Charlotte's city population is now over 900K and quickly growing. 

Edited February 24 by Professor

[joenc]

The owners don't even have to be here. There is probably a pool of billionaires and groups that are open to buy a team when it comes available regardless of where it is. The league can then be strategic about where it places a team.

[Hushpuppy321]

On 2/24/2024 at 9:13 AM, Take2 said:

Milwaukee,  Minneapolis, Tampa Bay have ALL used the QC as their go to city when they get pushback from whatever city they were getting pushback from about $$$. Charlotte's been in the MLB business for 30yrs already so there's that...

Charlotte was used as a ‘threat’ to move the Western & Southern Open but never materialized.  I think owners always leverage fast growing Metros but I would think/agree that NC (Raleigh & Charlotte) never seem to be as sexy as Nashville in people’s minds.  That might sway MLB Owners.