Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[UTgrad09]

Here's a short informational video about the state's T3 office consolidation project.  Worth noting toward the end is the mention of parking; specifically that the state is looking at options including acquiring more lots!  No mention of structured parking.   Why doesn't the state bulid a facility that can handle parking most of it's employees, rather than decimating the landscape with more surface parking?     

 

 

Well if it comes down to penny-pinching, then surface lots are cheaper for them to deal with than garages.

 

To me, it would make sense to consolidate the parking into just a couple of locations, and build garages, then help pay for the construction of said garages by selling off excess land. With how hot Nashville's market is right now, I'd think they'd be crazy to buy more land.

 

Idea #1 -- build a large, multi-level multi-entrance garage behind the TSU Avon Williams campus. Provide parking for both the school, and for state workers. This should take the place of the three big lots between 10th Circle and JRP. I'm assuming this is state owned land. With the North Gulch development right across the tracks, this suddenly becomes a couple of very large, very valuable plots of land (separated only by a small church and a couple of small commercial buildings. It has to be somewhere close to 10 acres.

 

Idea #2 -- consolidate the North Capitol lots and build a single garage. Germantown is a hot neighborhood, and its eventual spill over to the North Capitol area is inevitable. Selling off some land (perhaps not all of it, at first) should help give it a spark. They could build the garage near the 4th/5th/Jackson St area (the south side), which would be a strategic location in the event that the area takes off and mixed use development creates a shortage of parking...which leads me to...

 

Idea #3 -- open the garages for public parking after 5 or 6pm. There's not a ton of nightlife in the area at present, but if they sell some of these huge chunks of land (which I'm guessing Metro would encourage mixed use development in its place), there could be a shortage of parking for restaurants or retail. Charge $4-5 for parking, and create a revenue source.

 

Depending on what the land would fetch, they might be able to pay for the parking structures right soon after they build them.

 

 

I'm going to look through and see which parcels of land the state owns and how much acreage we're talking about here. I'm guessing somewhere north of 20 acres dedicated to surface parking. Could be money-generating land in the hands of a private entity. 

[timmay143]

No.  The National Registry does not provide protection against tearing down a structure.  Only local protections can do that.  So in Nashville, the property owner would have to  sign on to have the MHZC apply an historic overlay on the property.  Presumably the State of TN could do that, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

That's a shame.  I understand the real world is dog eat dog, do whatever is best for you.  But I feel like that is what is wrong with many things today.  Why can't people simply do what is right instead of how they are going to benefit the most.  I also realize that everyone's "right" is different.  I guess it's a Utopian thinking.

[captainwjm]

I have some familiarity with the Hull building and question the "functionally obselete" designation.  The building is clean, and well-maintained by state standards.  It has been significnatly renovated at least once in the last 20 or so years.  As far as I know, all systems are up-to-date and functioning without undue expense.  According to the report, deferred maintenance was a significant factor in the designation, but more critically is a problem with the foundation that creates the excessive cost of continuing occupancy. Whether the dollars and cents analysis of the administration makes sense is something that needs to be closely looked at.  Too bad that the legislature - or at least the Davidson County delegation - is not inclined to challenge the assumption underlying the request to fund a $25 million demoltion and associated costs of relocation and rental space. One good aspect of this is that rumor has it that at least some of the building's offices will be relocated to vacant space in the regions Bank building, thus keeping those workers downtown.

Edited January 31, 2013 by captainwjm

[nashvillwill]

For a moment, I thought we were talking about the judicial building with the fountains on the lawn. I almost freaked out and was going to start protesting. Sheesh.

Edited January 31, 2013 by nashvillwill

[smeagolsfree]

Final Plan for Sobro released.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2013/1/31/our_first_glimpse_at_the_final_sobro_master_plan

 

 

http://www.nashvillemusiccitycenter.com/docs/about/SoBroMasterPlan.pdf

[timmay143]

Final Plan for Sobro released.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2013/1/31/our_first_glimpse_at_the_final_sobro_master_plan

 

 

http://www.nashvillemusiccitycenter.com/docs/about/SoBroMasterPlan.pdf

 

Giggity .

[Neigeville]

That's a shame.  I understand the real world is dog eat dog, do whatever is best for you.  But I feel like that is what is wrong with many things today.  Why can't people simply do what is right instead of how they are going to benefit the most.  I also realize that everyone's "right" is different.  I guess it's a Utopian thinking.

Well what's right in cases like this is The Common Good, which is why governments, imperfect as they are, are ordained among men.  Right now, if we were to test the current state legislature on their knowledge of urban design issues (not to mention on how much they care about Nashville), I suspect the results would be more than disappointing.  As in, abysmal. 

 

The good news is that as our dynamic city continues to thrive, the state will have a motive to sell the many valuable pieces of land it probably owns.  The day will come when a developer will offer to build state employees parking structures in order to buy the land they're parking on.

[e-dub]

Final Plan for Sobro released.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2013/1/31/our_first_glimpse_at_the_final_sobro_master_plan

 

 

http://www.nashvillemusiccitycenter.com/docs/about/SoBroMasterPlan.pdf

 

as stupid as this is, the misspelling of the word "borders" on page 16 is really getting to me...

 

eric b

[Rockatansky]

IMO the biggest downsides to living in the North Capital/Germantown/Hope Gardens area are the sickening smells produced by the snuff factory and wastewater treatment plant.

[e-dub]

i don't live that way, though i walk to the farmer's market and the kroger a lot, but i've never smelled anything off over there?

 

eric b

[Rockatansky]

I picked up lunch at the Farmer's Market yesterday and the sickly-sweet bubblegum-ish smell from the snuff plant was pretty strong. Maybe I have a more sensative sniffer than most?

[smeagolsfree]

I think my smeller is broken. I have walked over in that area a number of times and have never noticed much of anything but I have lost a lot of the ability smell because others have asked if I smell something and the answer is usually no.

 

I thought the treatment plant was supposed to be much improved after all the money they spent on it. Another big waste of money by Metro I am sure.

 

I am from Kingsport in east TN and I grew up with a variaty of smells from a chemical plant, paper mill, concrete facotry, glass factory, and a few others.

[captainwjm]

Well, I like the Burton Snuff smell, especially when they are adding the "wintergreen" element!  The wastewater plant does occasionally produce an odor, but generally only noticeable during hot, still, humid weather.

 

BTW, remember after 9/11 when Channel 5 did an "expose'" about how easy it would be for terrorists to sneak into that plant.  LOL, when they confronted Metro officials who admitted never considering that sewage might be posioned!

[bwithers1]

I have only glanced through the report, but there are many ideas put forward that we have also talked about on UP.  Such as:  metro should form a parknig authority to construct structured parking in key spots with the bonds paid off by the modest parking fees that the parking authority would charge. 

 

One idea that is put forward is to improve the pedestrain bridge that goes from Lindslay Ave across I-40.  I would have to heartily disagree with this one in particular.  That is a drug dealer's runway to/from the Sudekum homes!

[BnaBreaker]

I have only glanced through the report, but there are many ideas put forward that we have also talked about on UP.  Such as:  metro should form a parknig authority to construct structured parking in key spots with the bonds paid off by the modest parking fees that the parking authority would charge. 

 

One idea that is put forward is to improve the pedestrain bridge that goes from Lindslay Ave across I-40.  I would have to heartily disagree with this one in particular.  That is a drug dealer's runway to/from the Sudekum homes

 

So poor people don't deserve a proper pedestrian connection to the center of town because a small handful of their neighbors sell drugs?  I would suggest that perhaps the fact that practically the entire neighborhood is sort of isolated and cut off from the rest of town geographically is part of the reason that it is somewhat of a haven for trouble makers.  The solution to that problem isn't to simply ignore it or to isolate the people that live there even further.  The solution is to begin to integrate their neighborhood back into the fabric of the surrounding neighborhoods. 

[timmay143]

Just imagine the N Gulch and East Bank fully developed with SoBro

 

SoBro_drawing_final_plans by timmay143, on Flickr

[UTgrad09]

One idea that is put forward is to improve the pedestrain bridge that goes from Lindslay Ave across I-40.  I would have to heartily disagree with this one in particular.  That is a drug dealer's runway to/from the Sudekum homes!

I generally like the idea of improving neighborhood connectivity, but this is one case where I absolutely oppose it. I know it isn't politically correct, but that bridge should be taken down. It is one thing that is holding that section of Rutledge Hill back.

So poor people don't deserve a proper pedestrian connection to the center of town because a small handful of their neighbors sell drugs?  I would suggest that perhaps the fact that practically the entire neighborhood is sort of isolated and cut off from the rest of town geographically is part of the reason that it is somewhat of a haven for trouble makers.  The solution to that problem isn't to simply ignore it or to isolate the people that live there even further.  The solution is to begin to integrate their neighborhood back into the fabric of the surrounding neighborhoods.

Integrating it into surrounding neighborhoods isn't going to improve it so long as it is a massive housing project.

No, not everyone that lives there is a bad apple...but there's a good reason why they are destroying those types of developments around the country. Isolation could very well be a factor in why it is not a good area. But it is not the root cause of it.

[jdavidf]

IMO the biggest downsides to living in the North Capital/Germantown/Hope Gardens area are the sickening smells produced by the snuff factory and wastewater treatment plant.

 

That's funny, I live right behind the tobacco plant and never notice it..   although I have heard others mention it before..  Maybe there's a problem with my smeller?

 

Of course, as long as US Tobacco stays right where it is (thus preventing high rise development right in front of us!), I guess I could put up with just about any smells they wanted to spew out! 

[bwithers1]

So poor people don't deserve a proper pedestrian connection to the center of town because a small handful of their neighbors sell drugs?  I would suggest that perhaps the fact that practically the entire neighborhood is sort of isolated and cut off from the rest of town geographically is part of the reason that it is somewhat of a haven for trouble makers.  The solution to that problem isn't to simply ignore it or to isolate the people that live there even further.  The solution is to begin to integrate their neighborhood back into the fabric of the surrounding neighborhoods. 

Actually, I agree with you on this.  The problem with the Sudekum homes is that gangbanger thugs/pimps/drug dealers who do not live there get back in those streets and threaten the people who do live there with their lives.  So the residents are kept prisoner by the drug dealers who patrol the area and use that pedestrian bridge.  From the police standpoint, the Sudekum Homes are patrolled by the Hermitage Precinct (at Central Pike and OHB), which also handles a lot of Antioch (everything from Murfreesboro Road north to the river) so the police can't even get there that quickly.  Maybe that will change once the new MidTown Hill precint comes online or something.  To me, the Sudekum homes really should be patrolled by the Central Precinct.

 

What I would say in terms of this pedestrian bridge is that the biggest "improvement" to it would be beefed up security.

 

I definitely agree that the Sudekum homes should be integrated with their community, but that community is the Lafayette Street corridor, not Sobro/Rutledge Hill.  Unfortunately, LaFayette Street isn't a lot better off than the Sudekum homes themselves.  That's a little slice of hell right there.  So improving that community really needs to happen south of I-40.  Making the pedestrian bridge more beautiful won't help the crime situation and the residents will still be afraid to use it.

[Neigeville]

...

I definitely agree that the Sudekum homes should be integrated with their community, but that community is the Lafayette Street corridor, not Sobro/Rutledge Hill. Unfortunately, LaFayette Street isn't a lot better off than the Sudekum homes themselves. That's a little slice of hell right there. So improving that community really needs to happen south of I-40. Making the pedestrian bridge more beautiful won't help the crime situation and the residents will still be afraid to use it.

Actually making an area more beautiful probably helps, people do tend to trash an area once it begins to look derelict. The "broken windows" theory. The plan only mentions making the street in front of the bridge a bit less Mad Max, but I think lighting on the bridge, and the area leading to the bridge on the other side, should be dealt with as well. A coat of paint wouldn't hurt either.

 

The larger issue is do we deal with poor people by concentrating them, Nashville does need to do some work on that front. And these neighborhoods can be redisigned to create more of a sense of ownership of the space by the people who live there, more "eyes on the street" and fewer shadowy places for shadowy people to congregate.

 

But as far as the idea that downtown is only for people of a certain social class, no. I say improve the connection between the neighborhoods.

[BnaBreaker]

You know what, I actually don't know how it works when it comes to government housing projects.  Is organic reintegration even an option, legally?  I know that's probably a ricidulous question, but I honestly don't know.  I know that here in Chicago most of the projects have simply been torn down.  However, those are all just a collection of two or three huge apartment blocks.  Not really much you can do with that in terms of reuse or reintegration.  Sudekum, on the other hand, is really more of a neighborhood setting.  If it were simply a poor neighborhood, and perhaps this is what you were getting at UTGrad, I think that the proper course of action would be to integrate and reconnect it with it's surrounding neighborhood, pumping money into improving it, increasing the socio-economic diversity, and increasing the zoning uses...basically letting them know that they're a part of this too.  Telling the residents to 'get lost' and destroying the entire thing just seems a bit short-sighted, and counter-productive, but perhaps demolition is the only option when dealing with government housing projects?  Can anyone shed some light on that?

Edited February 2, 2013 by BnaBreaker

[UTgrad09]

You know what, I actually don't know how it works when it comes to government housing projects.  Is organic reintegration even an option, legally?  I know that's probably a ricidulous question, but I honestly don't know.  I know that here in Chicago most of the projects have simply been torn down.  However, those are all just a collection of two or three huge apartment blocks.  Not really much you can do with that in terms of reuse or reintegration.  Sudekum, on the other hand, is really more of a neighborhood setting.  If it were simply a poor neighborhood, and perhaps this is what you were getting at UTGrad, I think that the proper course of action would be to integrate and reconnect it with it's surrounding neighborhood, pumping money into improving it, increasing the socio-economic diversity, and increasing the zoning uses...basically letting them know that they're a part of this too.  Telling the residents to 'get lost' and destroying the entire thing just seems a bit short-sighted, and counter-productive, but perhaps demolition is the only option when dealing with government housing projects?  Can anyone shed some light on that?

I know I probably came cross as a bit harsh and uncaring for the poor in my last post. I do think that ultimately neighborhood integration would be a good thing...and I think it would help with the overwhelmingly negative image of the area...but something needs to be done with the buildings themselves.

A lot of what hurts the projects is that image. It makes it difficult for anything to redevelop or gentrify nearby. Edgefield is a notable exception, but only due to it's unique housing stock. There is nothing even close to that sort of value anywhere down Lafayette. Simply put, it's a trashy area that some people are even afraid to drive through during daylight hours.

But anyways, I think the Napier projects nearby actually have a pretty cool "neighborhood" look. They are oriented to the street, and in my opinion, even attractive (for old school public housing). There's actually some potential with those (and a few others...Andrew Jackson Courts; Cheatham Place) to actually rehab what is there. Make a few aesthetic changes (but keep the mature trees), rehab the interiors, give them new windows. Yeah...I could see working with that. Excuse the phrase, but they're like a poor man's townhouse.

But these? These?? No way. The sooner they tear down these abominations the better. Replace it with some workforce housing....SOMETHING other than that. Just clean it up a bit.

I would invest in cleaning up the projects before pumping money into the surrounding neighborhood. If you leave the problem area a problem area...what is going to change? Who is going to take the financial risk to move their business to a notoriously bad neighborhood? Just throwing money at the area and saying "hey, you're a part of this, too" is a bit naive, I think.

[Neigeville]

I know I probably came cross as a bit harsh and uncaring for the poor in my last post. I do think that ultimately neighborhood integration would be a good thing...and I think it would help with the overwhelmingly negative image of the area...but something needs to be done with the buildings themselves.

A lot of what hurts the projects is that image. It makes it difficult for anything to redevelop or gentrify nearby. Edgefield is a notable exception, but only due to it's unique housing stock. There is nothing even close to that sort of value anywhere down Lafayette. Simply put, it's a trashy area that some people are even afraid to drive through during daylight hours.

But anyways, I think the Napier projects nearby actually have a pretty cool "neighborhood" look. They are oriented to the street, and in my opinion, even attractive (for old school public housing). There's actually some potential with those (and a few others...Andrew Jackson Courts; Cheatham Place) to actually rehab what is there. Make a few aesthetic changes (but keep the mature trees), rehab the interiors, give them new windows. Yeah...I could see working with that. Excuse the phrase, but they're like a poor man's townhouse.

But these? These?? No way. The sooner they tear down these abominations the better. Replace it with some workforce housing....SOMETHING other than that. Just clean it up a bit.

I would invest in cleaning up the projects before pumping money into the surrounding neighborhood. If you leave the problem area a problem area...what is going to change? Who is going to take the financial risk to move their business to a notoriously bad neighborhood? Just throwing money at the area and saying "hey, you're a part of this, too" is a bit naive, I think.

 

These projects were an enormous improvement over the slums they replaced decades ago, but they definitely need a makeover.  I think it's probably a good idea to break up the subsidized housing and scatter it around the city, maybe send some to Brentwood or Belle Meade to increase the diversity there (social experiment).  I'd transplant some of these facilities to West End, it might increase ridership on the BRT.  Seriously, I think some cities have had some success scattering subsidized housing throughout the city.

[bigeasy]

I have done some police ride alongs with officers that were stationed in Zone 11, or the JC Napier area. Something def needs to be done there because it is awful. It felt like the movie Training Day. At the time it was one officer for that whole zone unless they had some flex support. Hermitage precinct is spread so thin that it easily would of been 10-15 min before help could of arrived. Just hearing the stories on how they use the bridge as an escape from the cops makes me want to see it demolished. It is also an easy access to sell drugs away from the projects.  Some are "banned" from being there so they can avoid any trouble by just staying on the other side. I knew it was going to be an interesting night when the first call was someone driving around with a gun out the window.

[smeagolsfree]

Event center opens in Bridge building.

 

http://www.fox17.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wztv_vid_16259.shtml