Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[smeagolsfree]

The intersate news  is interesting for sure. I would bet Porter will be out of there before October as they are already looking very hard. The want to be within a mile and a half of that location.

[MLBrumby]

All this talk about demolishing very solid buildings that are already paid for (I'm pretty sure anyway) at the same time the state budget calls for over $7 million to renovate the Snodgrass tower.  I'd love to see someone attempt to do a deal with a developer to take the Snodgrass Tower (including some short-term lease with the state) in return for a major upgrade and overhaul of the Hull Building.  That building is simply massive inside and it's solid as a rock, built back in the days when public buildings were envisioned as fallout shelters.

[Five Points Urbanite]

Spent time in the Cordell Hull and Snodgrass. I remember going to the 29th floor of the Snodgrass when it was the American General Tower. A family friend was CEO at the time. I also remember when the building was built as the National Life and Accident Insurance Company Building. I am getting older!

[barakat]

Here's a little info and photos from the Sevier building study:  http://www.mcwb-arch.com/projects/civic/sevier.html

[UTgrad09]

The interstate thing is interesting...and sort of hard to imagine.The only thing I can really see is adding a partial exit at Clinton St (north side only) and maybe extending George L Davis one more block to the north. That way it would give a boost to Marathon Village as well.

 

Other than that, I would question the benefit of the cost involved. It's not like the Charlotte exit is uber far away...and I think a new ramp from 65 northbound off at either JoJohnston or Clinton (direct to Charlotte would be nearly impossible) would just add to the big ol CF of an exit system downtown, extending that to about a 1.5 mile hell of merging traffic.

 

They really need to simplify the downtown exit system rather than add to it. Simplify it, and cap the interstate through the canyon.

[timmay143]

Yep, North is becoming quite the area quietly.  Not as familiar with the area, but it reminds me of another "East Nashville."  As in, an urban neighborhood.

[Guest]

It maybe a some modification of the existing on/off ramps...maybe the I-40 East ramp adds a loop to land you Jo Johnston and there is a new merge onramp from the development for the existing I-40 west onramp... just guessing

[timmay143]

Can't wait to see some of these come online!

[East Side Urbanite]

I'm cautiously optimistic the two buildings won't be razed. But if a developer buys and wants to flatten and rebuild ... we just don't know.

 

WW

[timmay143]

I saw where the Sevier building is on the National Historic Register (Registry?).  Does that mean anything in regards of tearing it down?  Shouldn't that make it harder to destroy?

[smeagolsfree]

Here is an article in the Post today with a little more information about the Rolling Mill Hill Project.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2013/1/30/june_groundbreaking_set_for_rolling_mill_hill_residential_building

 

 

Another article in the Tennessean about the Hull Building

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130130/NEWS0201/301300161/Cordell-Hull-project-alarms-historians

[Nashvillain]

How does a building built half a century ago, or half a millenium ago for that matter, become "functionally obsolete"? Does it have walls? Floors? Ceilings? Doors? Windows? A roof? Yes to all those. OK, then it still works. WTF? Just sell the bulding and let a private developer gut it and turn it into apartments. I really despise seeing perfectly good buildings come down. Especially when there's nothing imediately in the pipeline to take its place. And some numbnuts in the comments section said it would be nice if the capitol were surrounded by greenspace. Has he seen the capitol?

[timmay143]

Yeah, just sell the damn thing if it's so much of a bother.  So, this building replaced the "slum" of Victorians?  Sheesh, the cycle never ends.

I like this quote regarding RMH:

 

“We’ll spend a lot of time and effort stabilizing the [chimney], which we feel is an architectural asset,” Tirrill said.

[fieldmarshaldj]

How 'bout we demolish Cordell Hull and rebuild the Victorians ?

[Five Points Urbanite]

Spent a lot of time in the Gulch. In high school I worked for Ted R. Sanders Moving and Storage which was located as I remember close to the north side under the bridge. Those were the days over 35 years ago! I kept one of my drum kits there and practiced before work in the summers.

[bwithers1]

I saw where the Sevier building is on the National Historic Register (Registry?).  Does that mean anything in regards of tearing it down?  Shouldn't that make it harder to destroy?

No.  The National Registry does not provide protection against tearing down a structure.  Only local protections can do that.  So in Nashville, the property owner would have to  sign on to have the MHZC apply an historic overlay on the property.  Presumably the State of TN could do that, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[bwithers1]

How does a building built half a century ago, or half a millenium ago for that matter, become "functionally obsolete"? Does it have walls? Floors? Ceilings? Doors? Windows? A roof? Yes to all those. OK, then it still works. WTF? Just sell the bulding and let a private developer gut it and turn it into apartments. I really despise seeing perfectly good buildings come down. Especially when there's nothing imediately in the pipeline to take its place. And some numbnuts in the comments section said it would be nice if the capitol were surrounded by greenspace. Has he seen the capitol?

My question is:  if the building is in such poor shape that the foundation requires fixing and the electrical can't be repaired, then how in the heck did the building get to be in that bad of shape?  Presumably, the State didn't perform routine maintenance on the building.  That would have been much cheaper than spending $25 million to demolish the thing.  Sounds penny wise / pound foolish to me.

 

Also, I am all for greenspace, but if the State is so hard up for cash, and they are going to tear down a building, then they might as well declare the property surplus and open it up for redevelopment by the private market.  I can see leaving it as green space in the iterim until it sells (and that would be preferable to another surface lot fo State employees), but I don't necessarily see the need to have it be green space perpetually.

 

On the other hand, why can't they just put the State Library and Archives or whatever they were planning on buildng in the bicentennial mall in these buildings?

[UTgrad09]

My question is:  if the building is in such poor shape that the foundation requires fixing and the electrical can't be repaired, then how in the heck did the building get to be in that bad of shape?  Presumably, the State didn't perform routine maintenance on the building.  That would have been much cheaper than spending $25 million to demolish the thing.  Sounds penny wise / pound foolish to me.

 

Also, I am all for greenspace, but if the State is so hard up for cash, and they are going to tear down a building, then they might as well declare the property surplus and open it up for redevelopment by the private market.  I can see leaving it as green space in the iterim until it sells (and that would be preferable to another surface lot fo State employees), but I don't necessarily see the need to have it be green space perpetually.

 

On the other hand, why can't they just put the State Library and Archives or whatever they were planning on buildng in the bicentennial mall in these buildings?

 

I think your presumption would be correct. Maybe they preformed "routine" maintenance (keeping the building clean) but did not address anything in terms of seriously updating the building. In any case, I would agree that it was probably the result of the state being cheap.

 

Green space is not a terrible idea...but to be honest, the Capitol building has a nice amount of green space around it. I'm not sure that it's location would truly be optimal for that...and it isn't going to really enhance anyone's view, and the amount of green space gained would be small in comparison to the whole grounds. If there is a building that should be demolished for capitol green space, it's the Capitol Towers on JRP.

 

If the land is sold to private interests, then all they need to do is slap a height restriction on it so it doesn't overpower the view (the current height of the Hull building seems fair to me). As for whether it becomes a state parking lot, someone already suggested that in the Tennessean comments. I don't know if it was a joke, but it didn't look like it. That made me shudder.

 

 

And it does seem odd that they can't spend money to rehab an already built state building when they are looking to build new buildings elsewhere...presumably at a much higher price tag than the $45 million mentioned here. 

 

I wonder if they were willing to invest in some major major renovations if it could not house the state museum with the archives on the upper floors? Or make the cool Sevier building the state museum.

 

 

 

In any case, I have not been happy with how the state has been managing it's property in this city. Not that they need to be "wasting" money...but as a point of pride, shouldn't they at least be setting a good example? 

[smeagolsfree]

I would bet it is filled with Asbestos and that is very expensive to take care of.

[bwithers1]

Germantown is a neighborhood, whereas East Nashville is a region made up of several neighborhoods.  But having said, that, Germantown is in many ways a much more urban neighborhood than most of those in East Nashville. Specifically, the building density in Germantown is (or is going to be) much higher because there is so much zero-lot-line or multifamily housing there, which is the exception rather than the rule even in the more dense/historic parts of East Nashville.  Single-family homes with yards, albeit homes that may have an apartment upstairs or something, are very much the norm in East Nashville and even the standard 50X150 (7500SF) lots in lower East Nashville's historic areas are at least 70% yard by zoning.  I would say that the closest comparison to Germantown in East Nashville would be Edgefield, but the scale of new development in Germantown is far surpassing Edgefield's in the last decade.  Then again, Edgefield formed Nashville's first historic district in the 1970s specifically to guide new construction and so quite a bit of the development that is going to take place in Edgefield is already built, whereas Germantown has really gotten started in the last decade.

 

It seems to me that Germantown is approaching the building density - not so much in terms of population but more in terms of built environment - that you would find in the brownstone neighborhoods of Chicago or many of the older East Coast cities in America.  The fact that Germantown is quite compact -- I'm guessing 2 square miles including Salemtown -- and that it has clear boundaries on the south, east and north sides, also adds to that sense of density, whereas the East Nashville region is spread out over several times that land area. 

 

Those Interstate and other boundaries that encircle Germantown will help to focus land demand in that compact area (as opposed to the nearly 1 dozen neighborhood center commerical areas across several square miles in East) but will probably limit the near-term spillover effect into greater North Nashville other than those areas immediately to the west:  Hope Gardens and Buena Vista. 

Edited January 30, 2013 by bwithers1

[Five Points Urbanite]

The state removed all Asbetsos years ago as I recall. Back in the 1980's when I worked along West End, I saw Asbestos removal crews removing it all the time even in buildings newer than the Cordell Hull Building. They used it up until 1973.

[timmay143]

Thanks for the clarification.  I wasn't trying to directly compare the areas, as I know they are different and unique.  I just don't know many of the details.  It just seems like the area has broken open the mindset of people saying, "I live in Germantown.", and replies of "Ohh, nice!"  Er, something to that effect.  Kind of like EN has its own "cool" vibe, but for some different reasons.  It's just nice to see neighborhoods develop like this (for Nashville).  It just seems like both neighborhoods developed under the radar for several years.  Then when it hit the "critical point" of development, the neighborhoods have come into their own.  Now the 'hoods are more known around the area.  I feel like GT has finally established that vibe, at least for me and from my perspective.

[timmay143]

Well some good news.  Solar panels for the MCC.

 

[Nashvillain]

My sense, and I could be wrong, is that "functionally obsolete" means no longer state of the art, or with all the latest features, open floor plans, fung shui, floor to celing windows, whatever. I don't get the sense that there's is anything structurally unsound or terminally ill about the building, but rather it needs to be updated with modern HVAC, energy efficient windows, insulation, etc. Which if that's the case, it would be a crime to tear it down.

 

And I could also be wrong about this, but weren't the victorians on the other side of the capitol where the war memorial is and maybe the archives and court buildings are? Regardless, whatever was on the east side of the capitol probably wouldn't qualify under anyone's definitiion of a slum in this day and age.   

[barakat]

Here's a short informational video about the state's T3 office consolidation project.  Worth noting toward the end is the mention of parking; specifically that the state is looking at options including acquiring more lots!  No mention of structured parking.   Why doesn't the state bulid a facility that can handle parking most of it's employees, rather than decimating the landscape with more surface parking?