Greenville County Square redevelopment

[gman430]

I’m curious to see if Simon will now make a Chess move on Haywood Mall due to them losing several high-end  national tenants to this development. Wish Apple would move to County Square. Hopes and dreams on that one though. 

[ingvegas]

I'm good with some high-end tenants for shopping and eating. But I do hope it is a true mix-use with a butcher, hair salon, dry cleaner, pharmacy, 24-hour gym, wine/cheese shop, bakery (not a $4.50 donut place like Salt), and a drop-in bodega or two. 

Build a neighborhood with a few popular destinations, not a destination spot that will lose popularity with time (they all eventually get stale).

Edited December 18, 2023 by ingvegas

[NewlyUpstate]

32 minutes ago, ingvegas said:

I'm good with some high-end tenants for shopping and eating. But I do hope it is a true mix-use with a butcher, hair salon, dry cleaner, pharmacy, 24-hour gym, wine/cheese shop, bakery (not a $4.50 donut place like Salt), and a drop-in bodega or two. 

Build a neighborhood with a few popular destinations, not a destination spot that will lose popularity with time (they all eventually get stale).

It's lame, but whole foods will meet many of those. But I know what you mean, however I am not expecting to see these sort of businesses for quite some time, not until some of the new and shiny businesses phase out and spaces are no longer brand new.

Edited December 18, 2023 by NewlyUpstate

[btoy]

And downtown already has many of the others within walking distance of this development.

[apaladin]

15 hours ago, ingvegas said:

I'm good with some high-end tenants for shopping and eating. But I do hope it is a true mix-use with a butcher, hair salon, dry cleaner, pharmacy, 24-hour gym, wine/cheese shop, bakery (not a $4.50 donut place like Salt), and a drop-in bodega or two. 

Build a neighborhood with a few popular destinations, not a destination spot that will lose popularity with time (they all eventually get stale).

Don’t worry the Shops At Greenridge-Downtown is what you are getting.

[motonenterprises]

9 hours ago, apaladin said:

Don’t worry the Shops At Greenridge-Downtown is what you are getting.

No it's not

[clemsonfan]

Not sure why we want low-rent businesses you can find in any strip mall on one of the most prominent and valuable sites in the city. I am all for it having it be "destination" stores that are unique in the metro area and make a trip there a special shopping experience you can only go downtown to get. I am really happy with how this development is turning out, and am surprised people are quibbling since IMO the pressing issue when it was announced was I thought it was crazy overbuilding, the market would never be able to absorb all that new space. I'd rather have flashy upscale stores lining up to get in like we've got than a white elephant half vacant.

Edited December 19, 2023 by clemsonfan

[ingvegas]

1 hour ago, clemsonfan said:

Not sure why we want low-rent businesses you can find in any strip mall on one of the most prominent and valuable sites in the city. I am all for it having it be "destination" stores that are unique in the metro area and make a trip there a special shopping experience you can only go downtown to get. I am really happy with how this development is turning out, and am surprised people are quibbling since IMO the pressing issue when it was announced was I thought it was crazy overbuilding, the market would never be able to absorb all that new space. I'd rather have flashy upscale stores than a white elephant half vacant.

A better mix though. I'm not saying this place should be a strip mall, but don't call it "the new downtown." Call it what's it's planned to be so far - "the outdoor-mall and adult amusement area."

Neighborhoods get their energy from people living there, running their errands there, art, landscaping, an open area or a park - and yes - a few great restaurants, amusements like the planned outdoor cinema or bull-riding bar, and ultra high end shopping to escape in. But don't forget the former for the later. Otherwise Apaladin is right - it's just going to be a fancy Shops at Greenridge. And time will degrade it's value, not inflate it. 

Would it be harder to plan? Yes. Will profits come in at a slower? Probably. But will it be more sustainable and overall profitable in the long run? Definitely. 

[gman]

21 hours ago, apaladin said:

Don’t worry the Shops At Greenridge-Downtown is what you are getting.

Not even close to being Greenridge.. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by gman

[gman430]

Ahhh…yes. Let’s cancel Williams Sonoma for a Majik Touch Cleaners. Doesn’t that sound exciting and make you wanna visit? Doesn’t Whole Foods Market already have a butcher, bakery, wine, and cheese? I don’t think they would be too thrilled with competition next door. 

Regarding the gym: I’m not sure how well a 24/7 gym would do seeing how all of the apartment, office, and hotel buildings within the development will probably have their own gyms built inside. There’s already an Anytime Fitness right nearby anyways. 

Regarding the pharmacy: there’s a 24 hour CVS literally just down the street across from Spinx and another one on Main Street just a few blocks away. Not sure why another one would be needed here. Pharmacies aren’t really expanding right now anyways due to competition from Walmart and Amazon. 

Regarding the dry cleaner: there’s one literally just across the Church Street bridge next to Publix at McBee Station already.

Edited December 20, 2023 by gman430

[motonenterprises]

9 hours ago, ingvegas said:

A better mix though. I'm not saying this place should be a strip mall, but don't call it "the new downtown." Call it what's it's planned to be so far - "the outdoor-mall and adult amusement area."

Neighborhoods get their energy from people living there, running their errands there, art, landscaping, an open area or a park - and yes - a few great restaurants, amusements like the planned outdoor cinema or bull-riding bar, and ultra high end shopping to escape in. But don't forget the former for the later. Otherwise Apaladin is right - it's just going to be a fancy Shops at Greenridge. And time will degrade it's value, not inflate it. 

Would it be harder to plan? Yes. Will profits come in at a slower? Probably. But will it be more sustainable and overall profitable in the long run? Definitely. 

Wrong. This is a 1 billion dollar project. Nothing like Greenridge.

[ingvegas]

Hey now, I could be wrong. Settle down.

Let's circle back on this in 2035. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it will be just like The Battery in Atlanta (sans stadium).  We'll re-name then to "The Corporate-Soulless-Square."

[motonenterprises]

16 hours ago, ingvegas said:

Hey now, I could be wrong. Settle down.

Let's circle back on this in 2035. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it will be just like The Battery in Atlanta (sans stadium).  We'll re-name then to "The Corporate-Soulless-Square."

It's a billion dollar investment. Our leaders are pretty good.

[vistatiger]

23 hours ago, gman430 said:

Ahhh…yes. Let’s cancel Williams Sonoma for a Majik Touch Cleaners. Doesn’t that sound exciting and make you wanna visit? Doesn’t Whole Foods Market already have a butcher, bakery, wine, and cheese? I don’t think they would be too thrilled with competition next door. 

Regarding the gym: I’m not sure how well a 24/7 gym would do seeing how all of the apartment, office, and hotel buildings within the development will probably have their own gyms built inside. There’s already an Anytime Fitness right nearby anyways. 

Regarding the pharmacy: there’s a 24 hour CVS literally just down the street across from Spinx and another one on Main Street just a few blocks away. Not sure why another one would be needed here. Pharmacies aren’t really expanding right now anyways due to competition from Walmart and Amazon. 

Regarding the dry cleaner: there’s one literally just across the Church Street bridge next to Publix at McBee Station already.

 You can get pharmacy, meat, cheese, bakery and wine at the twin Harris Teeter's that bookend the downtown area and without spending all your money at the Whole Paycheck market.  As far as Pottery Barn you can get the same look without the four times the markup at other places even Target and Williams Sonoma - DT has Cook's Station. Doesn't  get nicer than that store  IMO. Not impressed with the retail anchors dropped so far but to each their own.

[gman]

15 hours ago, vistatiger said:

 You can get pharmacy, meat, cheese, bakery and wine at the twin Harris Teeter's that bookend the downtown area and without spending all your money at the Whole Paycheck market.  As far as Pottery Barn you can get the same look without the four times the markup at other places even Target and Williams Sonoma - DT has Cook's Station. Doesn't  get nicer than that store  IMO. Not impressed with the retail anchors dropped so far but to each their own.

It is all about individual choices. I am proud of Greenville for having choices like Harris Teeter, Whole Foods, Pottery Barn, Target, and Cook's Station. The market is proving that our area can handle local stores and upscale national chains. Competition is good. 

[PuppiesandKittens]

17 hours ago, vistatiger said:

 You can get pharmacy, meat, cheese, bakery and wine at the twin Harris Teeter's that bookend the downtown area and without spending all your money at the Whole Paycheck market.  As far as Pottery Barn you can get the same look without the four times the markup at other places even Target and Williams Sonoma - DT has Cook's Station. Doesn't  get nicer than that store  IMO. Not impressed with the retail anchors dropped so far but to each their own.

We all have our preferences and I certainly respect yours: you have good taste.

However, having higher-end national retailers such as Whole Foods and Williams-Sonoma will attract more other retailers than locally-owned stores usually would.  

Look at downtown: once it got Anthropologie as its first higher-end national tenant, more national and local retailers came.

I just wish a Target and a regular department store would open.

[vistatiger]

23 hours ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

We all have our preferences and I certainly respect yours: you have good taste.

However, having higher-end national retailers such as Whole Foods and Williams-Sonoma will attract more other retailers than locally-owned stores usually would.  

Look at downtown: once it got Anthropologie as its first higher-end national tenant, more national and local retailers came.

I just wish a Target and a regular department store would open.

Agreed. I would love to see a department store including Target.  Just hate to see the downtown area over saturated with grocers in particular and end up with an empty big box. Really would've preferred to see Publix  relocate to county square from McBee with  a larger multilevel store (parking underneath /cart escalators/ apartments above).  Just not a big Whole Foods shopper or fan of the big box single story look of it.  Hope there is enough business to go around for all of them. Grocers aren't shy about shuttering stores that aren't doing adequate sales volume.

[PuppiesandKittens]

6 hours ago, vistatiger said:

Agreed. I would love to see a department store including Target.  Just hate to see the downtown area over saturated with grocers in particular and end up with an empty big box. Really would've preferred to see Publix  relocate to county square from McBee with  a larger multilevel store (parking underneath /cart escalators/ apartments above).  Just not a big Whole Foods shopper or fan of the big box single story look of it.  Hope there is enough business to go around for all of them. Grocers aren't shy about shuttering stores that aren't doing adequate sales volume.

I agree: there are likely going to be more grocery stores than the market can support, at least for a while.  I'd actually worry most about one of the Harris Teeters failing; those stores seem to do a lower amount of sales per square foot than Publix does.  

I also worry about the whole County Square development failing as a retail site.  It failed before, and I still think it needs to be carefully and seamlessly integrated into the West End so that it is an integrated extension of Main Street and the West End, instead of being hidden away behind Falls Park, invisible to people walking in the West End.  If Haywood Mall ever gets it together and does a total upgrade of the entire mall and its surroundings, it could be a stronger competitor, particularly since it has a good location.  It may be too late, though.

[apaladin]

18 hours ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

I agree: there are likely going to be more grocery stores than the market can support, at least for a while.  I'd actually worry most about one of the Harris Teeters failing; those stores seem to do a lower amount of sales per square foot than Publix does.  

I also worry about the whole County Square development failing as a retail site.  It failed before, and I still think it needs to be carefully and seamlessly integrated into the West End so that it is an integrated extension of Main Street and the West End, instead of being hidden away behind Falls Park, invisible to people walking in the West End.  If Haywood Mall ever gets it together and does a total upgrade of the entire mall and its surroundings, it could be a stronger competitor, particularly since it has a good location.  It may be too late, though.

You obviously don’t go to the grocery stores much, lol. I go a lot and they are always packed. Publix on Pelham cannot keep their shelves stocked. I go to 2 different FL’s, Harris-Teeter, they are all doing well The E.North/Pelham are is in need of another grocery store really bad. Not sure the new Sprouts will fill that need or not. 

[PuppiesandKittens]

54 minutes ago, apaladin said:

You obviously don’t go to the grocery stores much, lol. I go a lot and they are always packed. Publix on Pelham cannot keep their shelves stocked. I go to 2 different FL’s, Harris-Teeter, they are all doing well The E.North/Pelham are is in need of another grocery store really bad. Not sure the new Sprouts will fill that need or not. 

You obviously cannot read, lol.

I go to those stores several times a week.

My point is that the Harris Teeters have lower sales per square foot than the downtown Publix does.  Each Harris Teeter is significantly larger, but the number of cars in their parking lots is not proportionately larger than the number of cars in the Publix downtown parking lot (and the number of customers at Harris Teeter is not proportionately larger than the number of customers at Publix).  Smaller stores often have significantly higher sales per square foot and are often more profitable than larger ones, perhaps because the smaller ones stock only items that are strong sellers, not needing to fill shelf space with less-popular items.

Edited December 23, 2023 by PuppiesandKittens

[gman430]

I know they closed at Haywood Mall but I would like to see J. Crew, Michael Kors, Ann Taylor, and Coach give Greenville another try either within this development or somewhere else downtown. I feel like they would be a lot more successful there than they were at the mall. Speaking of Haywood Mall, the quality of tenants there has really been going downhill over the last 10-15 years. Pretty sad and pathetic to see. I don’t blame Warby Parker, Madewell, Anthropologie, Lululemon, etc for locating downtown instead. Simon has really failed this area and just don’t seem to care. Urban Outfitters would be another good catch for County Square. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by gman430

[gman]

15 hours ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

You obviously cannot read, lol.

I go to those stores several times a week.

My point is that the Harris Teeters have lower sales per square foot than the downtown Publix does.  Each Harris Teeter is significantly larger, but the number of cars in their parking lots is not proportionately larger than the number of cars in the Publix downtown parking lot (and the number of customers at Harris Teeter is not proportionately larger than the number of customers at Publix).  Smaller stores often have significantly higher sales per square foot and are often more profitable than larger ones, perhaps because the smaller ones stock only items that are strong sellers, not needing to fill shelf space with less-popular items.

The downtown HT stays packed. Of course, their happy hours specials and meals bring in a lot of customers that Publix does not draw. I do the grocery shopping in my family, going several times a week. I like to shop at Publix or HT.  Ingles has become the new Bi-Lo, dirty with unfriendly employees. I have found that HT has the best sale prices and just as good of a selection as Publix. The employees at both stores are super nice. Greenville is blessed with great grocery stores. 

[PuppiesandKittens]

2 hours ago, gman said:

The downtown HT stays packed. Of course, their happy hours specials and meals bring in a lot of customers that Publix does not draw. I do the grocery shopping in my family, going several times a week. I like to shop at Publix or HT.  Ingles has become the new Bi-Lo, dirty with unfriendly employees. I have found that HT has the best sale prices and just as good of a selection as Publix. The employees at both stores are super nice. Greenville is blessed with great grocery stores. 

My point is that the downtown Publix has higher sales per square foot than the Augusta Road or the Wade Hampton Harris Teeter has.

Chainwide, Publix has sales per square foot of $633 and Harris Teeter has sales per square foot of $455, based on the latest info I found.  And since smaller stores often have higher sales per square foot than larger ones, that also supports my view.

That’s my only point.

Edited December 24, 2023 by PuppiesandKittens

[gman430]

EMS has started to move into their new facility at McAlister Square. Completion slated for next month. Still no building permit issued for that apartment building also.

Edited December 26, 2023 by gman430

[goodbye]

An official Lego store in Greenville would be nice.  County Square would be a good option, if not somewhere on Main Street.