Nashville Bits and Pieces

[timmay143]

I love Musica!  Wish we had more stuff like it.  My favorite is when they are dressed up for holidays, Preds games, etc.

[smeagolsfree]

Nashville Class A space at all time low. Con you say more construction and soon.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2013/03/29/vacancy-rate-for-nashvilles-top-tier.html

[UTgrad09]

Nashville Class A space at all time low. Con you say more construction and soon.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2013/03/29/vacancy-rate-for-nashvilles-top-tier.html

 

That's good news. Let's hope some of those rising cranes are downtown. 

[timmay143]

More construction and soon!

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

I can't wait! Another 13 story Suntrust Plaza on prime downtown real estate. Give me a break. If it's not 30+ stories and 450+ feet, I am not interested. Land downtown is too scarce for these small buildings they have been building over the past few years. If we get more office space, we won't be as lucky as we got with the Pinnacle. The only downtown office tower I want to see is 505cst.

 

Believe me, Nashville with think small again. So on prime real estate we get a 13 story Hyatt? Please!

 

When is Nashville going to think big?

 

If it's not tall, don't even tell me about it. I don't want to be disappointed again.

[dmillsphoto]

Better than the 5 story Hampton Inn next door.

[fieldmarshaldj]

I can't wait! Another 13 story Suntrust Plaza on prime downtown real estate. Give me a break. If it's not 30+ stories and 450+ feet, I am not interested. Land downtown is too scarce for these small buildings they have been building over the past few years. If we get more office space, we won't be as lucky as we got with the Pinnacle. The only downtown office tower I want to see is 505cst.

 

Believe me, Nashville with think small again. So on prime real estate we get a 13 story Hyatt? Please!

 

When is Nashville going to think big?

 

If it's not tall, don't even tell me about it. I don't want to be disappointed again.

 

I do agree that it's ridiculous to build undersized mid or low rises on prime pieces of downtown property (Suntrust being a premier example). You'd think they were building as if this was Maryland Farms or some such. Of course, we also don't want to be throwing up highrises on spec, either, and have a glut of unused space. I was glancing at Tulsa a little while ago and came across the old City of Faith sci-fiesque monstrosity, built 34 years ago. To this day, it never reached full occupancy, and many floors of the complex are unfinished from the time of its construction (of course, also, it was built out in the suburbs, over 80 blocks from the downtown core, which shouldn't have been approved in the first place).

 

The worst example of criminally unused property is the Hotel Tulane lot, which has been a parking lot for 54 years on Church between Polk & 8th. A skyscraper should've been put on that lot over 4 decades ago. I've momentarily forgotten, but do we know who has ownership of that property at present ?

[Guest]

The city has control of the lot in question. My understanding is that a family trust signed it over to metro to use "as long as Nashville had a library on the property. The city kept a small 'closet library' onsite after the new downtown library opened thus maintaining control of the property.... I can not vouch for this as a 'fact' but I believe it to be so.

[fieldmarshaldj]

^Yes, that's what I remember. The Polk family descendants, I believe (the same ones who disregarded the President Polk's wishes to keep his estate and burial location a permanent memorial and demolished it to build an apartment building). If they ever demolished the former library, ex-Mayor Fulton's idea to recreate Polk Place would be an intriguing idea (though that would just be the part fronting Union, not all the way down to Church).

[barakat]

I'm curious why people get upset over the height of buildings. If the market doesn't demand more than a 13 story building, as indicated by the developers pre-planning/pre-leasing to determine what will work, why should they be expected to do otherwise? Perhaps people just care about it more than I. I'm more concerned with the streetscape and activation, I suppose. Example: the AT&T building is primarily a monument, aside from office space. The building barely addresses or activates the street anywhere. It looks ok from a distance and has height, but that doesn't impress me if the streetscape and pedestrians are an afterthought. Same with Snodgrass and other tall buildings that are just tall buildings.

[UTgrad09]

I'm curious why people get upset over the height of buildings. If the market doesn't demand more than a 13 story building, as indicated by the developers pre-planning/pre-leasing to determine what will work, why should they be expected to do otherwise? Perhaps people just care about it more than I. I'm more concerned with the streetscape and activation, I suppose. Example: the AT&T building is primarily a monument, aside from office space. The building barely addresses or activates the street anywhere. It looks ok from a distance and has height, but that doesn't impress me if the streetscape and pedestrians are an afterthought. Same with Snodgrass and other tall buildings that are just tall buildings.

 

I'm in agreement with you there.

 

I do like skyscrapers, and I would like to see some more height variation in town...but I do NOT think that every building near downtown needs to be tall. I'd like to avoid the 1-3 story as much as possible (except on back streets and in more residential areas)...but I think finding the right fit is more important than height in most of these areas. Nashville isn't running out of land that can be developed for skyscrapers any time particularly soon...especially with the vast amount of surface parking that we have.

 

But if there was a proposal to fill in the surface parking lots, and the choices were a 40 story corporate skyscraper with glass walls and no "public" area at the base (no restaurant/retail space) versus a modest 10 story brick residential tower with retail in the base...I'd rather have the shorter tower. It would fit the block much better.

[BnaBreaker]

I'm curious why people get upset over the height of buildings. If the market doesn't demand more than a 13 story building, as indicated by the developers pre-planning/pre-leasing to determine what will work, why should they be expected to do otherwise? Perhaps people just care about it more than I. I'm more concerned with the streetscape and activation, I suppose. Example: the AT&T building is primarily a monument, aside from office space. The building barely addresses or activates the street anywhere. It looks ok from a distance and has height, but that doesn't impress me if the streetscape and pedestrians are an afterthought. Same with Snodgrass and other tall buildings that are just tall buildings.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. 

[BrandonTO416]

I'm curious why people get upset over the height of buildings. If the market doesn't demand more than a 13 story building, as indicated by the developers pre-planning/pre-leasing to determine what will work, why should they be expected to do otherwise? Perhaps people just care about it more than I. I'm more concerned with the streetscape and activation, I suppose. Example: the AT&T building is primarily a monument, aside from office space. The building barely addresses or activates the street anywhere. It looks ok from a distance and has height, but that doesn't impress me if the streetscape and pedestrians are an afterthought. Same with Snodgrass and other tall buildings that are just tall buildings.

 

I agree, but something else that is true is that older buildings can be redeveloped. Snodgrass quite honestly is a disgrace, it sits there without any investments and its a huge space surrounding the building above the underground parking decks.

 

Ideally, what the state could do since they own the property now is set aside some cash in a budget to renovate the entire property. They could redo the entire building by installing new glass and interior (the inside is horribly dated as I've seen it before years ago), then at the base they could build a "shopper" mart to lease out to small businesses around the base and integrate it to the street. It'd basically be building exterior storefronts around the edges of the property around the building and they could create a square like atmosphere around the building.

 

Projects like this don't come cheap, however, and it'd be a multi-million renovation project. But I don't think it'd be prohibitively expensive, you'd be making an investment to the property for the next 50+ years. There have been other major renovations on much larger buildings over twice its size done for $100 million, but that included 100% reclad of the entire structure. So far as I can tell, the windows would only need replacement on Snodgrass.

 

So if you do a redo of the interior and glasswork, then rebuild the exterior with small business friendly development that is connected to the street, you could easily do it for under $50 million, probably far less depending on several factors.

[fieldmarshaldj]

^At the time the National Life & Accident Tower (now the Snodgrass) was built in 1969, the east side of the current plaza fronting 7th between Union & Charlotte was occupied by low-rise office buildings from the 1920s era (including the NL&A predecessor building where the original WSM radio originated, a historical & cultural landmark worthy of preservation). I still remember the old buildings, and I thought the block complimented each other: the older and the modern. Sadly, within 15 years of its construction, they tore down all the buildings on the east side by the mid-1980s and expanded the plaza to its current proportions. It's a depressing sight now, and very unwelcoming.

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

1) I actually love the Snodgrass Tower for many reasons. However, and yes coming from a Socialist, I don't like to see the State Of Tennessee occupy the building because when the State occupies buildings like the Snodgrass Tower, they never have the money to keep them up.

 

2) Responsible and sustainably conscious private enterprise should be the tenants of such buildings. Amazing to me the State claims it's too expensive to renovate the Cordell Hull Building, but the State will spend millions on projects that are not needed at all.

 

3) In regards to building height. It is imperative that we start building up as high as possible to conserve space. I have been writing about this for 8 years on this forum. Nashville does not have enough surface lots to waste on low rise buildings. There is so much potential to create dense sustainable cities free of surface parking lots. In my opinion, surface parking lots are simply laziness from the owners. At least Tony Giarratana want's to eventually develop his lots.

 

4) The situation with the Hotel Tulane property is correct. That massive lot will be a surface lot for eternity. The family absolutely refuses to sell at any cost. They, very selfishly, could care less about the City Of Nashville. Many land owners in the CBD do not live in Nashville, and I dare say hate the city to begin with. They care nothing about the city. All they want is their money from surface parking lots. People like this to me hate sustainability, smart land use, creating viable spaces, building density, human street interaction, urban community development, and over all inviting streetscapes that benefit the residents of the city. I for one get irritated with all the excuses being used to not develop land wisely. I get tired of hearing the ultra wealthy land owners excuses for not doing something for the common good like developing surface parking lots.

 

5) I also get tired of people waiting for Tony Giarratana to do everything, the Pinnacle not withstanding. I have heard one excuse after another reasons for not developing Nashville City Center 2, and now it may never happen because land owners in the CBD simply gave the business to Alex Palmer and Ray Hensler. Now the taller towers are moving to the suburbs along West End and The Gulch. Yes, 15-20 years ago it would have been unheard of to build a tower 15 stories or taller outside the CBD. I remember 1986 vividly when Palmer Plaza opened (although Emporis stands by their 1993 opening date when I remember going in the building in 1988. I argued with Emporis via email for years claiming their information is wrong, but they claim the building was opened in 1993. Idiots.) I said then, when an 18 story 269 foot tower appears on West End, the CBD would suffer and it has.

 

6) I don't buy the argument there are not enough surface lots from 1st Avenue to 9th Avenue to build another tower. The last time I counted, there were at least 30 surface lots.

 

So yes, building height and building density matter. We cannot continue to allow Cool Springs and Brentwood to suck companies into the suburban vortex. Although at night the lights that illuminate Maryland Farms and Cool Springs are impressive, the waste of land that increases the carbon foot print is far less than impressive.

Edited March 31, 2013 by 5th & Main Urbanite

[MLBrumby]

I think the contrast/comparison between ATT and Pinnacle shows how Nashville has evolved over the last 20 years.  ATT really is a suburban skyscraper, with that "garden" thing out to the corner (I mean, who the heck did they think they would fool into thinking they weren't in a city?).  But the building itself is a rather juvenile design too.  The large fenestrations with (what?) three floors in each and the turning of the building to an angle toward the street are old architect's tricks to diminish the impact of the size of a building. 

 

Fast-forward to the Pinnacle and the comparison is so different... and refreshing.  Look at what putting a building right up to the street does to activate the street... of course, that's also a big help for restaurants and stores that want to locate downtown to have a street-facing window.

[UTgrad09]

3) In regards to building height. It is imperative that we start building up as high as possible to conserve space. I have been writing about this for 8 years on this forum. Nashville does not have enough surface lots to waste on low rise buildings. 

 

 

So yes, building height and building density matter. We cannot continue to allow Cool Springs and Brentwood to suck companies into the suburban vortex. Although at night the lights that illuminate Maryland Farms and Cool Springs are impressive, the waste of land that increases the carbon foot print is far less than impressive.

 

I would like to see some more skyscrapers...but unless you are solely talking about downtown, there are tons and tons and tons...hundreds of underutilized lots...whether they be surface parking, or metal warehouses, or small, insignificant non-historic buildings...I don't think it's imperative to build as high as possible. Nashville isn't Manhattan, where space is at an ultra-premium. We're not even close to the class of city that Atlanta is...the demand for tall skyscrapers just isn't there. The amount of square footage (both residential and commercial) that could be built up in the core with midrises alone is astonishing. 

 

I suppose if there was some sort of radical change in demographics with the masses moving back into the city, there may be a need to be discriminant about what gets built in the core...but there is very little pointing to that as a trend right now. There are plenty of cities that blow our population density away, with 20-50,000 ppsm with a majority of lowrise buildings.

 

 

 

As for Cool Springs/Brentwood...that's going to be the choice of those businesses/municipalities if more continues to be built there. We can't force them to not locate there. What we can do is provide a superior environment for the employees. WIth millennials having a preference for more urban environs, I think you'll see more companies, especially with younger workforces, choose to locate in the city. We must ensure that Nashville's core is a viable option.

[samsonh]

I would love to see a downtown of 5 to 20 story buildings. A walkable downtown. A live able downtown. Cafes and restaurants in the bottom of most buildings.

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

Nashville is supposed to have a retail Czar to establish more retail, but he/she has done a terrible job. After 5 years Encore is finally getting a coffee shop! They just opened Etch a couple of months ago and most buildings downtown have no retail at all. A perfect building is the 8 story parking garage on 4th and Commerce. The 8th floor office is occupied, but the street level bottom floor has been vacant for 15 years. You mean to tell me they cannot recruit a viable restaurant to locate on 4th and Commerce? Come on ! Give me a break! Why are we paying these people to do nothing?

 

Your restaurant would front Suntrust Plaza, The ATT Building, The USBank Tower, and look toward Broadway and you cannot find a tenant?

[fieldmarshaldj]

Nashville is supposed to have a retail Czar to establish more retail, but he/she has done a terrible job. {snip}  Why are we paying these people to do nothing?

 

Because that's what government does best.

[MLBrumby]

I was doing a bit of research on the Capitol Hill redevelopment in Nashville last night and came across this fascinating piece from Fortune (apparently) from 1958.  If authentic, it is amazing how prescient the comments are about urban renewal and how it will destroy blocks and even whole downtowns.  Anyway, keeping in mind its time this is a great read...  http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2011/09/18/downtown-is-for-people-fortune-classic-1958/

[barakat]

Chrissy Cassetty has done a good job at helping bring retail to downtown. It is interesting to place all the blame on her for not bringing more, when there are so many other basic factors involved in opening a business. The building mentioned at Commerce and 4th: I believe the vacancy has nothing to do with Chrissy's job performance, and more to do with the planned renovation of that building by Eakin Partners. The retail will follow once the building OWNER has found a suitable tenant and completed renovation. Chrissy is there to help in the process of finding suitable space for potential retailers.

http://www.nashvilledowntown.com/invest/retail-recruitment-information

[MLBrumby]

This is from the Tennessean about the very low vacancy rate for office space (citywide) especially downtown, but note the last paragraph about companies in California, Illinois and other high tax/high crime states looking to relocate to low tax states (and a "tolerance for guns")... http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130402/BUSINESS/304020071/2095/BUSINESS02

 

We could see two office towers going up in the next 24 months in addition to the WES 3 towers (2 office).

Edited April 3, 2013 by MLBrumby

[UTgrad09]

Well...my thought, get started. You have to have the space available before it's needed. Otherwise a company might choose another spec space in a location that we would rather them not choose.

[FutureSailor]

Awesome site! I've enjoyed reading all the information on current and future projects going on in Nashville. I'm not from Nashville but I think the skyline is amazing and just keeps getting better.