Nashville Bits and Pieces

[TheRaglander]

Don't get me wrong. I would like a good balance of high/mid as well. I don't want all development to be towering masses of steel and concrete. But I do get the pleasure of driving into downtown every morning from Franklin and get to see the skyline. I can't help but to wonder how it will look if we had a few more towers dotted along the western cooridor.

[L'burgnative]

We agreed at the meeting, 12 of us, that we would not post anything until something official is released. I don't want to put this person on the spot, but I will say, and you can draw your own conclusions, that the condo market in  downtown is about to get hot again because there are no units available. The stock, or inventory, of available condos is zero. The condos that are selling are off market,  and they close within a day or so. I have an agent friend that has 30+ clients looking for downtown condos,  and more than one condo developer is aware  of the need.

 

Therefore with that being said, there is a possibility that aforementioned  condo projects that were scraped in the past could be on the table again. There is also talk the Sobro could be built as condos instead of apartments since Ray Hensler is  doing 23 stories of apartments in The Gulch.

 

The other bit of news was there are three entities applying for TIF money to build a four star full service hotel. The 2 main players are known, Tony Giarratana, and Swerdling. The third entity is unknown, but the brand names are Westin, Grand Hyatt, Marriott Marquis, and Peabody. The properties are the original Westin site on 2nd and Broadway, The lot the Baptist's currently own on 8th and Demonbreun, The triangle lot behind the MCC near the Roundabout that basically fits in between KVB and Lafayette Street, and an unknown lot possibly the Bert Matthews Property on 4th and KVB.

 

The other bit of news is the rendering for the 20 story office tower Eakin Partners wants to do is on site in The Gulch.

 

BY the end of the summer we could have:

 

1) West End Summit Towers 1, 2, and 3 17, 18, and 20 stories

 

2) Ray Henlser Tower 23 stories

 

3)  The Eakin Tower 20 stories

 

4) The Patel Project on West End 10 stories

 

5) The Patel Project on KVB 14 Stories

 

6) The Hilton Garden Inn on Almond Street 11 stories

 

7) The Sobro 33 stories

 

All going up at once. This does not include the possibility of a scraped project coming to light again.

 

Don't count out a 400+ foot tower being announced for the CBD  soon.

 

Nashville is about to explode. I do wish all of this was being built on surface lots downtown, but Nashville is becoming more linear, so CBD enthusiasts like myself are going to have to deal with major developments being built out of downtown.

 

I know it's dumb to ask, but I must.  Is the shorter version (800' I think) of Siggy possibly back on the table?

[UTgrad09]

I know it's dumb to ask, but I must.  Is the shorter version (800' I think) of Siggy possibly back on the table?

 

I'd say anything is possible if the market is right. The question would be, if Siggy came back, what would Tony do with 505CST's plans? 

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

I'd say anything is possible if the market is right. The question would be, if Siggy came back, what would Tony do with 505CST's plans? 

Honestly, if I were to guess, I would suspect we would see the 55 story 700 foot version, and to get TIF, I think there would be some affordable units, as well as mixed use. 505 CST was estimated at 200 million dollars to build, if not more. The lot will be developed at some point.

 

Remember Tony built 3 residential towers, not office, not hotel. He rehabilitated 1 other. He partnered with Post for the Bennie Dillon apartments. Residential is his specialty. He got the Belle Meade project started, and he got Park Central started, and he will get the project on Elliston Place started. All had residential components. However, he sold his interests in two of the later projects rather quickly, and I suspect he will do the same with the project on Elliston Place.

 

Besides parking, Tony's long term interests are towers in the CBD. It is not out of the question to develop the lot by scraping 505CST and going back to Signature. Tony has to think long term, and not immediate. With WES starting, a possibility of Gulch Crossings starting this summer, and the Eakin Tower, how much office space is needed compared to residential? Would NCC2 pop out of the ground if an office market were strong in the CBD? Who would build first? Tony with 505CST or would Parameter Realty build NCC2 first?

 

It's speculation at this point. Our discussions are like sports fans debating team offenses and defenses, or mock draft order! It's market driven and I would say at this point the overwhelming case is for condo's since the stock is so low. We have so many hotels predicted, we may not be able to fill all of the rooms. We have 4000 apartment units going up in the loop, or the general vicinity, we have office space being developed at WES, but no-one is building condos.

 

Nashville is way behind peer cities in downtown residential living. Memphis has 30,000 living in their core and interstate loop. We have maybe 2000.

 

With that long answer, it seems obvious to me what the next tower will be, and IMHO, its not Sobro, unless Sobro goes condo because I doubt Nashville can fill Hensler's tower in the Gulch AND The Sobro if it's apartments.

 

Now to make things more complicated, how long does Hensler's tower stay apartments before they convert?

 

Again, it's all market driven and I think it could be seen as obvious what building is back on the table.

Edited April 12, 2013 by 5th & Main Urbanite

[L'burgnative]

I'd say anything is possible if the market is right. The question would be, if Siggy came back, what would Tony do with 505CST's plans? 

I hope scrapped; I'm not a fan.

 

 

 

Again, it's all market driven and I think it could be seen as obvious what building is back on the table.

Thanks for the great reply.  So just to be clear; you're saying the obvious building back on the table may be Siggy right?   Are banks going to  loosen the purse strings for Condo highrises yet?

Edited April 12, 2013 by L'burgnative

[UTgrad09]

Nashville is way behind peer cities in downtown residential living. Memphis has 30,000 living in their core and interstate loop. We have maybe 2000.

First of all, I do believe we are behind our peer cities. I don't think there's any debate there.

But what are you considering to be "Downtown Memphis"? There's no way that actual downtown Memphis comes even close to 30,000 people. Using Census tracts that are roughly bound by I-40, I-240, and US 64 (which would be a super generous definition of "downtown"), you get ~18,000. That includes several housing projects and the South Bluffs area and a lot of Midtown, and covers roughly 7 square miles. A similar (~7.6 square mile) area in Nashville has ~15,000 people, and includes Downtown, SoBro, The Gulch, Midtown, Watkins Park, Buena Vista, Hope Gardens, Germantown, and Salemtown...and the way things have gone, it wouldn't surprise me if the populations are almost identical now, consider what has opened since 2010.

A lot of places inflate their "downtown" population by including a lot of adjacent areas. I wouldn't doubt that Memphis has a bit more people living in its actual downtown than we do...but the disparity is not 30,000 to 2,000. Memphis has a number of public housing projects that helps boost the population. If we included places like JC Napier or Andrew Jackson in our downtown figures, it would boost our population as well.

I hope scrapped; I'm not a fan.

Personally, I disagree. I think 505 is a much more cutting edge design...and I think one that fits the location better. Siggy...whether the full height or scaled back...I just never really felt like it was the right fit. JMO.

[donNdonelson2]

I think that Memphis "downtown" residential numbers usually include all of the Harbour Town neighborhoods (homes and apartments) which are not really downtown at all.  I have to say, I DO love the South Bluffs neighborhood in Memphis...it is rather small, but very nicely laid out and charming.

 

505CST is one of my favorite proposals-would love to see it rise on our skyline!

[UTgrad09]

I think that Memphis "downtown" residential numbers usually include all of the Harbour Town neighborhoods (homes and apartments) which are not really downtown at all.  I have to say, I DO love the South Bluffs neighborhood in Memphis...it is rather small, but very nicely laid out and charming.

 

505CST is one of my favorite proposals-would love to see it rise on our skyline!

That's what I figured. And yes, both of those are cool urban neighborhoods....but not downtown. If that's downtown, then we can definitely include everything inside of our loop.

[Nashville Cliff]

...

 

Nashville is way behind peer cities in downtown residential living. Memphis has 30,000 living in their core and interstate loop. We have maybe 2000.

 

We have over 6,000 residents in our downtown core area according to the Downtown Partnership (http://www.nashvilledowntown.com/_files/docs/residential-report-2012.pdf). I believe their figure is for residents in the CBD, the Gulch, SoBro, and the Sulfur Dell area.

[MLBrumby]

That sounds about right.  I heard a couple of years ago from someone in R/E up there that there are approximately 40,000 residents in the core and midtown roughly defined by I-440 (appx. 8 square miles and a density of about 5000/sq.mi.).  And of course there are over 20,000 students that aren't even counted as residents. Add to that the approximately 100,000 people who commute to that part of town, and then travellers and tourists visiting and passing through, and you've got the recipe for major congestion on the streets. Plus, I've heard that are over 10,000 people who have daytime commutes to MetroCenter.

Edited April 12, 2013 by MLBrumby

[MLBrumby]

Blah, blah, blah!!  Scuttlebutt on future office development, from Colliers International ...  http://nashvillepost.com/sites/default/files/attachments/74347/Office.pdf

 

All signs are looking very favorable for new office in the core.  If Eakin's new office building ends up being only 18 stories and 350k sq.ft., then that would be quite disappointing... very much a letdown, and seemingly a missed opportunity.  I really do try to refrain from comparisons between Nashville and Atlanta, but when I was a teenager in the 80s, and everybody knew Atlanta (especially midtown) was headed toward an office glut, the developers were still gutsy enough to build very nice and tall.  Yes, there was a little bubble and a hiccup in the late 80s, but the availability of properties at that time set off a whole new wave of relocations, and within 3-4 years, they were building again (some of our tallest buildings went up at that time).  I'm only saying that the developers need to be ready to strike when the opportunities come... and sometimes they have to help spark those opportunities.

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

Blah, blah, blah!!  Scuttlebutt on future office development, from Colliers International ...  http://nashvillepost.com/sites/default/files/attachments/74347/Office.pdf

 

All signs are looking very favorable for new office in the core.  If Eakin's new office building ends up being only 18 stories and 350k sq.ft., then that would be quite disappointing... very much a letdown, and seemingly a missed opportunity.  I really do try to refrain from comparisons between Nashville and Atlanta, but when I was a teenager in the 80s, and everybody knew Atlanta (especially midtown) was headed toward an office glut, the developers were still gutsy enough to build very nice and tall.  Yes, there was a little bubble and a hiccup in the late 80s, but the availability of properties at that time set off a whole new wave of relocations, and within 3-4 years, they were building again (some of our tallest buildings went up at that time).  I'm only saying that the developers need to be ready to strike when the opportunities come... and sometimes they have to help spark those opportunities.

Agreed 100% ML! Nashville has always been overly cautious. That is why we have The Koger Center in Brentwood, Maryland Farms, Cool Springs, and Franklin getting everything because no one had vision to build up in Nashville. They prefer suburban sprawl instead of two or three 50+ story office towers.

[bwithers1]

The Nashville Property Assessor's office was conducting community meetings this week regarding the property tax reappraisals that are being finalized right now.  They have a map of the council districts that show red areas as having a value gain over the last 4 years and blue areas as having a value loss over that period.  It turns out that Council District 6 in East Nashville was #1 in terms of property value gains over the last four years, with an average of 15% appreciation.  The Belmont Hillsboro area was #2 with about 8%.  East Nashville council districts 5 and 7 were also red (gain) areas.  Almost all of the rest of the city had a light blue or a deep blue color indicating an average loss in value for the period that ended 12/31/12.  Southeast Davidson County was a sea of almost purple-deep blue. 

 

The Assessor noted that the appraisal is revenue neutral to the city, so the city will collect the same amount of dollars in total, it's just that now East Nashville will be paying a larger share in light of the value appreciation in that area (which is fair), while almost all of the rest of the city will be paying the same to less on average.

 

Residential values across Nashville were down about 1% over this time period, but commercial values, which include apartments, were up considerably from four years ago, to help make up the difference.

 

One thing that I am looking forward to after I pay my increased taxes is the very cool new online tools that the Property Assessor's office is rolling out starting this weekend.  It will be much, much easier to pull data about properties and especially about building permits.  You will be able to pull all kinds of data and even create your own customized reports, and will even be able to circle an area with your mouse and get the data about that area if one of the existing categories does not fit your needs.  I'm sure that all of us built fabric nerds will have the assessor's website in our Favorites by the time of the next meet-up!

Edited April 16, 2013 by bwithers1

[fieldmarshaldj]

Southeast Davidson County was a sea of almost purple-deep blue. 

 

 

There's a shock.

[smeagolsfree]

Florida based company looking to area hoods for mixed use parking structures. Really good news for areas like Five points, Eastland and 12 South where parking is always a problem. I would love to see something in GTown as well.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/4/12/florida_based_parking_garage_company_eyes_nashvilles_mixed_use_districts

[UTgrad09]

Florida based company looking to area hoods for mixed use parking structures. Really good news for areas like Five points, Eastland and 12 South where parking is always a problem. I would love to see something in GTown as well.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/4/12/florida_based_parking_garage_company_eyes_nashvilles_mixed_use_districts

That will be very, very welcome in quite a few locations.

[Rockatansky]

To clarify. As of the 2010 Census:

 

8,971 persons resided within the downtown interstate loop.

 

52,824 persons resided within the I-40/I440 loop - excluding the downtown interstate loop.

 

61,795 persons resided within the combined downtown & I-40/I-440 loops.

 

These numbers include those persons residing in dormatories and other group quarters.

[MLBrumby]

Wow!  How close was I?  Based on my faulty memory, the residents and students from that old source (which I don't recall exactly) add up to approximately 60,000. 

[bwithers1]

I would prioritize Hillsboro Village first.  Lord, it's like literally a parking war there.  It would be especially great to have an out-of-town company come in and build a profitable parking garage in that area since our local parking company consolidated their headquarters there but can't seem to provide for their own employees adequately, leading to parking wars on those streets. Somebody needs to show these companies how it's done.  That would be sweet!

 

I can't see an out-of-town company building a parking garage in East Nashville.  Premier is now handling the pay lot next to Woodland Studios in Five Points, and we'll see how that goes.  As for Eastland Ave, March Edgerton really, really, really needs to include structured parking in his Walden development in like the next phase.  The neighbors and the Council Member are going to insist on that before any more building permits are issued.  There are like 8 more buildings proposed for that site!  Otherwise, local East Nashvillians need to get on those bicycles and leave the parking spots for the visitors.

 

For similar reasons, I can't see a for-profit parking garage going in Germantown really soon.  There are some surface lots, and there is a fair amount of on-street parking, not to mention Bicentennial Mall, etc.  If Planning is doing their homework, they will require off-street parking for new developments, either in off-street garages for the townhomes or in structured parking in the rear of the more commercial developments. 

 

And in 12South, the parking garage for the HG Hill property will accomodate public parking as well as resident parking, right?  That will be a good start.

Florida based company looking to area hoods for mixed use parking structures. Really good news for areas like Five points, Eastland and 12 South where parking is always a problem. I would love to see something in GTown as well.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/4/12/florida_based_parking_garage_company_eyes_nashvilles_mixed_use_districts

[chelovek]

I would prioritize Hillsboro Village first.  Lord, it's like literally a parking war there.  It would be especially great to have an out-of-town company come in and build a profitable parking garage in that area since our local parking company consolidated their headquarters there but can't seem to provide for their own employees adequately, leading to parking wars on those streets. Somebody needs to show these companies how it's done.  That would be sweet!

 

I would love to see the regions bank surface lot at 21st Ave and Wedgewood rebuilt as a garage with ground floor retail. Or an anything with ground floor retail. It would really help define that intersection. Hillsboro Village feels like it ends at Wedgewood/Blakemore to me, mostly because of that ugly surface lot.

[nashvillwill]

I would love to see the regions bank surface lot at 21st Ave and Wedgewood rebuilt as a garage with ground floor retail. Or an anything with ground floor retail. It would really help define that intersection. Hillsboro Village feels like it ends at Wedgewood/Blakemore to me, mostly because of that ugly surface lot.

More importantly than parking, I would love to see that bank redeveloped with ground floor retail. I would love to see the Village expanded Into a bigger retail district. Granted, it's surrounded by a dense neighborhood, so I'm not advocating the mass destruction of private homes (or former homes turned commercial), but I think there is plenty of surface parking in that area that could be converted into useful buildings.

I think the "parking problem" in Nashville is simply a state of mind. Most Nashvillians still believe that parking is only adequate if they can park within a hundred feet of their destination. I've NEVER had to walk more than 2-3 blocks in the Village from a parking space. That's an easy walk and certainly not a major problem. Maybe things have change significantly in the past 3 years, but I doubt it.

Even going to hockey games, I could always find parking within 5 blocks of the arena for either free, or just a couple of dollars (none of that $20 parking for me).

It's going to be a growing pain for many people, but it's a reality some will have to face.

[bwithers1]

Absolutely.  I have often wondered why people who live relatively close to each other will all drive over separately to the same destination.  Even if they don't want to walk for whatever reason, at least they could carpool. 

I think the "parking problem" in Nashville is simply a state of mind. Most Nashvillians still believe that parking is only adequate if they can park within a hundred feet of their destination.
 

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

Anyone in the mood for a coffee tomorrow, let me know. I will miss the next meet due to being out of town.

[UTgrad09]

Anyone in the mood for a coffee tomorrow, let me know. I will miss the next meet due to being out of town.

I'm up for it. Where?

[smeagolsfree]

I had places to go and people to see, actually it was laundry to do and yards to mow. Maybe next time around.

 

There may be a few things happening of note and not so much of note this week, so watch the media.

 

I do know of a few blog post WW is going to do, and hopefully one will be about a project I found for him. Don't know much at this point but will not be super big but I don't think it will be tiny either.