Nashville Bits and Pieces

[Nathan_in_DC]

I noticed the work going on out there the other day, was kind of hoping to see that torn down and replaced.  Oh well, a rehab is better than nothing, I guess.

[MLBrumby]

Went with my wife and kids up to the MC Bowl on Monday and stayed with friends up in Sumner County.  Have to ask what the plan for I-65 north of downtown is... as it's all barricaded off.  Has TDOT finally gotten some sense and decided to remove the bottleneck under Fern Avenue? 

Frankly though, I think the worst part of the Interstate system through town is the I-24/I-40 stretch southeast of downtown.  Horrible and so old!!!

[UTgrad09]

Went with my wife and kids up to the MC Bowl on Monday and stayed with friends up in Sumner County.  Have to ask what the plan for I-65 north of downtown is... as it's all barricaded off.  Has TDOT finally gotten some sense and decided to remove the bottleneck under Fern Avenue? 

Frankly though, I think the worst part of the Interstate system through town is the I-24/I-40 stretch southeast of downtown.  Horrible and so old!!!

 

They definitely need to rethink the Fern Ave overpass...but that's not the only bridge that needs to be reworked. If they don't fix pretty much every bridge/overpass on the east side and add a lane, then they're just passing that bottleneck somewhere further down the line. It's sort of a crazy run with 3-4ish exits and then an interchange in about a mile and a half. 

 

But the project you refer to won't help with that. The section of 65/24 that is u/c runs from Trinity Lane to Dickerson Road and it will be widened from 6-8 lanes to 8/10. It is needed, since the ultrawide freeway to the north of Briley suddenly drops from 5-6 travel lanes on each side to 3. The project cost is $54 million ($46 million federal, $8 million state).

 

 

I know some people on here aren't too fond of highway construction, but I think 24 on the east side as well as the bizarre Ellington interchange need to be completely reworked and simplified...for safety, for aesthetics, and for sanity. That section really sort of chops up East Nashville.

 

As for 24/40...that's also a bit of a nightmare...and a tight fit as well. Several bridges and rock walls would need to be widened. I believe there are plans to turn Fesslers into a full exit...though I'm not sure what the benefit of that would be. I can't find it right now, but one of the possible solutions mentioned would be to double-deck the interstate for that ~2 mile stretch. Of all of the pie-in-the-sky proposals we see, that has to be damn near the top of the list. 

 

I think there are some modest improvements that need to be made to our urban freeways. Most of them have to do with safety and making merges not so difficult. I think reducing the number of exits around downtown wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

I also think that the most important widening project should be I-440, not anywhere around the loop. 440 is a mostly 2 lane interstate carrying a traffic load roughly equal to I-24 through Murfreesboro or I-65 through Franklin. It is a nightmare going west in the morning, or east in the afternoon. There is plenty of room to widen the road, but the major obstacle remains to be the tall bridge over I-65. I think widening that would be a massive project and a massive headache while they are working on it.

[MidTenn1]

I also think that the most important widening project should be I-440, not anywhere around the loop. 440 is a mostly 2 lane interstate carrying a traffic load roughly equal to I-24 through Murfreesboro or I-65 through Franklin. It is a nightmare going west in the morning, or east in the afternoon. There is plenty of room to widen the road, but the major obstacle remains to be the tall bridge over I-65. I think widening that would be a massive project and a massive headache while they are working on it.

 

I'm sure that I-440 cannot be widened beyond four lanes (two in each direction). Due to the controversy created when it was first planned in the 70's, the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) produced for the project included a provision that it would never be widened. Some 'auxilliary' lanes have been added between exits to reduce traffic conflicts from merging in those areas, but they do not provide consistancy and continuity throughout the entire Parkway. Plus the expense of buying right-of-way (financially and politically) would make it prohibitive anyyway. 

 

440 Parkway is a nicely landscaped and attractive by-pass around the City and will stay that way.

[UTgrad09]

I'm sure that I-440 cannot be widened beyond four lanes (two in each direction). Due to the controversy created when it was first planned in the 70's, the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) produced for the project included a provision that it would never be widened. Some 'auxilliary' lanes have been added between exits to reduce traffic conflicts from merging in those areas, but they do not provide consistancy and continuity throughout the entire Parkway. Plus the expense of buying right-of-way (financially and politically) would make it prohibitive anyyway. 

 

440 Parkway is a nicely landscaped and attractive by-pass around the City and will stay that way.

I wouldn't widen it beyond 4 lanes, but I think its days as a "parkway" are numbered. I would add a permanent 3rd lane as well as a 4th merge lane. No matter the case, the bridge over 65 needs to be 3 lanes per side. A two (sometimes 3) lane interstate just isn't enough to handle 100,000+ cars per day.

No need for right of way. Just expand the road towards the center and add a retaining wall. Sure, it loses it's attractiveness...but it's hard to find the road attractive when you're sitting in bumper to bumper traffic anyways.

Edited January 2, 2013 by UTgrad09

[FrankNash]

Stop adding lanes for cars! If any lanes are added make them bus lane only. Atlanta did the same thing, it just never ends.

[smeagolsfree]

A little tid bit WW sent me.

Nashville ranked in top 5 places to visit in world by Conde Nast

 

 

http://www.cntraveler.com/daily-traveler/2013/01/today-show-top-travel-destinations-2013-010113?MBID=twitter_

How about another 3500 housing units in DT in the next five years.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/1/2/study_downtown_nashville_will_need_3500_residences_over_next_five_years

[UTgrad09]

Stop adding lanes for cars! If any lanes are added make them bus lane only. Atlanta did the same thing, it just never ends.

 

I never want to see the massive 16+ lane freeways cutting through town like they have in Atlanta (the short stretch of 65 north of Briley is bad enough)...but I'm not sure not adding any lanes is the right way to go.

 

Yes, we should encourage public transportation usage, and spend more time and energy working on improving our mass transit infrastructure...but, we don't have anything in place that could potentially support all of the new residents we get each year, or that we're projected to get over the next couple of decades. I think shifting our focus is a good thing. But abandoning highway construction to a metro growing by 250-300,000 (or perhaps more) per decade is not a good idea.

 

I would go further, but really that belongs in the public transit thread.

[timmay143]

Noticed last time I was in town some widening on 440 around the Nolensville Rd. exit.  They removed the median dirt hill.  Not sure exactly what's going on.

[SoundScan]

Stop adding lanes for cars! If any lanes are added make them bus lane only. Atlanta did the same thing, it just never ends.

 

I agree in principle, but I'm fine with adding capacity within and including the 440 loop. These areas are already built-out (for the most part) so adding additional capacity within the loop is not going to contribute to urban/suburban sprawl, e.g. Atlanta. It's projects like the I65 expansion in Franklin from 840 that are going to cause problems down the road (pun intended).

[smeagolsfree]

Noticed last time I was in town some widening on 440 around the Nolensville Rd. exit.  They removed the median dirt hill.  Not sure exactly what's going on.

That project has been going on for a while. They are adding a lane to exit into I 24.

 

I 65 is also being widened south and that is to go even further.

 

I 40 around Lebanon is also being widened as is I 65 around Trinity Lane.

 

Major headaches for the driver's in the city.

[bwithers1]

A little tid bit WW sent me.

Nashville ranked in top 5 places to visit in world by Conde Nast

 

 

http://www.cntraveler.com/daily-traveler/2013/01/today-show-top-travel-destinations-2013-010113?MBID=twitter_

How about another 3500 housing units in DT in the next five years.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/1/2/study_downtown_nashville_will_need_3500_residences_over_next_five_years

The piece of this number that really interested me was the prediction of single-family homes.  If downtown is thought to exclude Germantown, then where would the single-family homes go?  Maybe they would fill in some of the blocks near Rutledge Hill?  To me, that would be the most marketable area for single-family homes. 

 

The disparity between this prediction and Tony G's perceived difficulties getting the Sobro tower started are striking.

[UTgrad09]

The piece of this number that really interested me was the prediction of single-family homes.  If downtown is thought to exclude Germantown, then where would the single-family homes go?  Maybe they would fill in some of the blocks near Rutledge Hill?  To me, that would be the most marketable area for single-family homes. 

 

The disparity between this prediction and Tony G's perceived difficulties getting the Sobro tower started are striking.

 

When I read it (as the entire inner loop), my first thought was that the single family units would primarily be in Germantown/Salemtown, where some of the bits and pieces filler is going on. But now that you mention it, I think a few (and I mean a few) blocks in and around Rutledge Hill, next to existing houses (well, now are mostly businesses) and historic structures, would be good for that. The only problem I see is perhaps the perceived safety of the area (especially at night). I'm sure that affected Germantown/Salemtown at one time, too. Perhaps it will be better as more residents move to that area.

[bwithers1]

When I read it (as the entire inner loop), my first thought was that the single family units would primarily be in Germantown/Salemtown, where some of the bits and pieces filler is going on. But now that you mention it, I think a few (and I mean a few) blocks in and around Rutledge Hill, next to existing houses (well, now are mostly businesses) and historic structures, would be good for that. The only problem I see is perhaps the perceived safety of the area (especially at night). I'm sure that affected Germantown/Salemtown at one time, too. Perhaps it will be better as more residents move to that area.

You're right.  Now that I have had a chance to read a little bit more closely, this study is including everything inside the interstate loop instead of Planning's definition of downtown, which ends at Jefferson.  But the report does have a lot of focus on the Sobro/LaFayette/Rutledge Hill/Rolling Mill Hill area. 

 

Page 7 includes forcasts for up to 650 single-family detached homes going primarily in Salemtown and Buena Vista, citing those areas' affordability. 

 

By comparison, the same page forecasts a much higher number of "high-density attached single-family housing units, e.g., townhouses, row houses, stacked townhosues or brownstones" in the Sobro/Rutledge/Rolling Mill Hill area.  I'm certainly OK with that!

[UTgrad09]

You're right.  Now that I have had a chance to read a little bit more closely, this study is including everything inside the interstate loop instead of Planning's definition of downtown, which ends at Jefferson.  But the report does have a lot of focus on the Sobro/LaFayette/Rutledge Hill/Rolling Mill Hill area. 

 

Page 7 includes forcasts for up to 650 single-family detached homes going primarily in Salemtown and Buena Vista, citing those areas' affordability. 

 

By comparison, the same page forecasts a much higher number of "high-density attached single-family housing units, e.g., townhouses, row houses, stacked townhosues or brownstones" in the Sobro/Rutledge/Rolling Mill Hill area.  I'm certainly OK with that!

 

 

Yeah, I think I can live with that. I like the idea of giving the neighborhoods some variety, too...especially once you get off the main roads.

And speaking of that area...seeing this thing go would be nice. It's like a little piece of Brentwood Trace got lost and ended up in the wrong area.

[BnaBreaker]

 

 

Yeah, I think I can live with that. I like the idea of giving the neighborhoods some variety, too...especially once you get off the main roads.

And speaking of that area...seeing this thing go would be nice. It's like a little piece of Brentwood Trace got lost and ended up in the wrong area.

 

Wow, that definitely is a stinker.  Another complex that I can't stand, perhaps even a little more than the one you mentioned due mainly to where it's located, is the apartment complex that takes up the entire block between KVB/Peabody on the north and south and 2nd/3rd on the east and west.  That thing makes me want to throw a toddler style hissy fit everytime I see it, because it takes up such prime real estate and is SO suburban in it's orientation, and what's worse is that it is a large and new enough complex that I'm guessing the chances of it being replaced with something else in the near future is slim to none. 

[e-dub]

 

 

Yeah, I think I can live with that. I like the idea of giving the neighborhoods some variety, too...especially once you get off the main roads.

And speaking of that area...seeing this thing go would be nice. It's like a little piece of Brentwood Trace got lost and ended up in the wrong area.

hah, academy square. i used to rent there before i found a place to buy. i certainly didn't "gush" about living there, but i've lived in far worse places. the thing that really ended up getting to me was the wall that surrounds the thing.

eric b

Edited January 4, 2013 by e-dub

[UTgrad09]

hah, academy square. i used to rent there before i found a place to buy. i certainly didn't "gush" about living there, but i've lived in far worse places. the thing that really ended up getting to me was the wall that surrounds the thing.

eric b

Oh, I don't mean to imply that it's a terrible place to live...it's just terribly out of place where it is. And the thing I'll say about it as opposed to the place BNA mentioned is that with the concrete wall around it, it is completely uninviting. At the very least you can see through the iron fence at the other one...and this one takes up a much larger plot of land.

[donNdonelson2]

Academy Square and Peabody Place (I think that is the name of the condo building at 2nd--or 3rd--and KVB)  were both built at a time when NOBODY (or almost nobody) was taking the risk to build residential inside the interstate loop.  They are not the ideal developments we would hope for...far from it...but they were trailblazers in the current effort to get people living back in the city's core.  As resales or rentals, they likely provide opportunities that newly built properties would preclude.

[MLBrumby]

Very good point Don. And at least they have brick walls around them to block most of their bland architecture. Yes, I realize that the walls were erected to keep out certain elements, but now it's good that they are there. Besides, I think the small block of condo/apartments across 2nd from Peabody Place is far uglier than Peabody Place. At least Peabody is mostly/all brick. The buildings across the street (are they also the site of Steve McNair's murder?) should be razedby MDHA.

[BnaBreaker]

^That's a good way to look at them I suppose.  I guess they really just irk me because they are stark reminders of a time in the not-so-distant past when Nashville had next to no urban planning infrastructure in place in it's code.

 

Anyway, this small tidbit was mentioned in the NCP today.  Nothing big, but fifteen detatched townhomes for West End Park:

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/1/3/distinctive_cottage_infill_project_looms_for_west_end_park

[MLBrumby]

I find it interesting that these townhomes are reminiscent of the very townhomes downtown about which we are speaking.  They will have garages, which will go a long way toward making them look far better with an absence of a parking lot.  In that area of town, my only complaint is the hodgepodge of architecture and quality of building materials.

[nashvillwill]

Random question here. Is "West End Park" the name of the general neighborhood in that area? I've never heard that.

[bwithers1]

Random question here. Is "West End Park" the name of the general neighborhood in that area? I've never heard that.

Yes.  It is generally the area near 31st and West End.  The neighborhood has a website.  http://www.westendpark.org/PDFs/weptennessean.pdf Follow the link to the history of the neighborhood dating to 1893 with its founding by the son of Adelicia Acklen (of Belmont Mansion fame).  Note that this article was written in 2007.  Surprisingly, this neighborhood's founding predated the 1897 Centennial Celebration that created Centennial Park and switched the direction of development in Nashville from East Nashville to West Nashville.  Unfortunately, it's founding also coincided with the financial crisis of 1893.

 

A few other key findings in the history article:

-This was literally a gated community.  Fragments of the gate still stand at Acklen Park Drive.  There were large lots (one acre minimum originally) in order to keep out the riffraff.  This development had many of the aspects that we decry about suburbia today (Brentwood style), but in 1893!  This area was outside the city limits until the early 20th Century.

-Photos of Mr. Acklen's home that burned in 1960 and was razed in 1961.  This one will make you weep. It is also pretty apparent that few of the original structures in the neighborhood are still standing, except I'm guessing maybe the house where Maggiano's is located if that is original and not a pastiche.

-Original maps of the area from the turn of the century.  There was a streetcar line down Long Ave!  Before we get all romantic about streetcars, let's remember that pretty much nobody had automobiles at this time, so the streetcars provided quick transportation to the "clean" suburbs for those who still needed to travel to the "dirty" city to work.  So the intent of the streetcars at that time was not that different than today's Interstates taking people to Cool Springs.

-It seems to be the case that I-440 cuts through part of the original plots for this development.  I-440 replaced the railroad tracks that were already in place at the time of this neighorhood's platting, but it seems to take up quite a bit more acreage in its present form.

Edited January 4, 2013 by bwithers1

[nashvillwill]

^^^ Wow! That's some amazing history. Thanks. I had no idea. And you're right, Mr. Acklen's house almost brought a tear to my eye.