Waterside District

[mistermetaj]

Power Plant Live attracts 3 million visitors annually.  I'd say Norfolk would have made Waterside a success if it gets half of that.

I agree with you. That doesnt change the fact the city wanted to dump the property. They wete losing $1M a year maintaining it.

Downtown Norfolk and the powerplant area in Baltimore are completely different situations. There is no comparison to make between them any more than comparing the Baltimore vs Philly development. The one in Philly is next to all the sports stadiums.

[VBIllini13]

I agree with you. That doesnt change the fact the city wanted to dump the property. They wete losing $1M a year maintaining it.

Downtown Norfolk and the powerplant area in Baltimore are completely different situations. There is no comparison to make between them any more than comparing the Baltimore vs Philly development. The one in Philly is next to all the sports stadiums.

 

They definitely want to get rid of the property, the City really had no business managing it for as long as it did. I still think that it's worth noting how successful Cordish's developments have been in attracting so many people including locals, suburbanites, and tourists to the development as a destination.

[brikkman]

The city was looking for the quickest and cheapest way to get Waterside off their books.  They found it with Cordish.  Once the property changes ownership, the city wouldn't care if Cordish let it decay to rubble.  This wasn't a competition for a project, it was a fire sale by the city.  The only winner will be Burfoot who got his under-the-table money.

Yeah, but that has always been an issue for me with the city. They do not communicate their throught processes correctly to the citizens they serve.  You have two types of people: People who have a true understanding how city government works and people who have a soft hand approach.

Those people who have a soft hand approach was banking on something "family" friendly. Even though that wasn't the reason why waterside and waterside 2.0 faild, their soft hand approach does not allow them to see the forest for the trees. All i'm saying is, there will be a lot of disappointed people in the long run. I do think it needed to be a version of what is going there now, just not a new coat of paint, zoning, etc... I would have like to see something that would be ground breaking and worth the hike over waterside drive and pay the parking.  Will that happen? That remains to be seen, but the general consenses on this board about the skywalk combo was such a better idea...Connecting it directly to DT (and sheraton or othe rhotel) without destroying TPP should have been a priority..

Edited April 29, 2013 by brikkman

[mistermetaj]

Yeah, but that has always been an issue for me with the city. They do not communicate their throught processes correctly to the citizens they serve.  You have two types of people: People who have a true understanding how city government works and people who have a soft hand approach.

Those people who have a soft hand approach was banking on something "family" friendly. Even though that wasn't the reason why waterside and waterside 2.0 faild, their soft hand approach does not allow them to see the forest for the trees. All i'm saying is, there will be a lot of disappointed people in the long run. I do think it needed to be a version of what is going there now, just not a new coat of paint, zoning, etc... I would have like to see something that would be ground breaking and worth the hike over waterside drive and pay the parking.  Well that happen? That remains to be seen, but the general consenses on this board about the skywalk combo was such a better idea...Connecting it directly to DT (and sheraton or othe rhotel) without destroying TPP should have been a priority..

 

I don't know why the city can't make a civil investment into the high line idea anyway.  It's an urban park which would definitely fall under the city's jurisdiction.  

[ke76nt]

Starting to think the city of Norfolk made a mistake by choosing this project!

 

Town Center is getting a nice office tower that's is actually 1/3 of the way complete while the Waterside project still lies in the negotation stages. Something is not right about the Coordish project and now that the other proposals are off the table, the city will pay more money to these scammers. Burfoot's true character has been reveal in the Bank of the Commonwealth fraud allegations. He definitely steered this project and look at the results. Nothing!

[BFG]

At this point I say just tear the damn place down. I went from defending the place to keep its status as an iconic building in the skyline, to not caring one way or another. Most of that is because of the city's inaction...SPQ is starting to get a similar reaction from me, but I actually am interested in that one.

 

I really wish the High Line project could've found a place in all this. Norfolk seems to hate "unique" projects.

[mistermetaj]

At this point I say just tear the damn place down. I went from defending the place to keep its status as an iconic building in the skyline, to not caring one way or another. Most of that is because of the city's inaction...SPQ is starting to get a similar reaction from me, but I actually am interested in that one.

 

I really wish the High Line project could've found a place in all this. Norfolk seems to hate "unique" projects.

 

There has been silence on this project, and there has been silence from Burfoot.  Ever since Burfoot was accused of bribery so his girlfriend could get a loan, he hasn't made a hint of noise about this project or really anything else.

 

He was the big proponent of this project and was lobbying for it well before all the proposals were even announced.  I have no doubt he made promises he couldn't keep to Cordish once his corruption was exposed.  (Can you tell I'm not a big fan?)

 

I hope this proposal fails and he gets blamed.

[mistermetaj]

Starting to think the city of Norfolk made a mistake by choosing this project!

 

Town Center is getting a nice office tower that's is actually 1/3 of the way complete while the Waterside project still lies in the negotation stages. Something is not right about the Coordish project and now that the other proposals are off the table, the city will pay more money to these scammers. Burfoot's true character has been reveal in the Bank of the Commonwealth fraud allegations. He definitely steered this project and look at the results. Nothing!

^^^^^THIS!

[vdogg]

Starting to think the city of Norfolk made a mistake by choosing this project!

 

Town Center is getting a nice office tower that's is actually 1/3 of the way complete 

It's not just any new office tower, it is THE new office tower Norfolk was supposed to get. These folks came to Norfolk, hat in hand, practically begging to build downtown. I am still shocked that the CC turned down a couple hundred verified, in the bag, high paying jobs for more bars and restaurants. The fact that they're still negotiating must mean that Burfoot hasn't greased enough palms yet... 

[VBIllini13]

 http://hamptonroads.com/2013/08/norfolk-ready-complete-deal-waterside-live

 

Looks like this thing is finally moving forward, however slowly.

[vdogg]

I'll believe it when I see it. They said they were close 6 months ago. They said they were close a year ago. At this point they only thing I'll believe from them is actual shovels in the ground turning dirt.

[Ghentite]

I hear ya.  From what I've heard they really have been negotiating for the full year.  There's been a lot more red tape than expected and dealings with lawyers.  But this is supposedly the real thing.  We'll see...

[varider]

Waterside renovation done the right way, as I expect this company will do, is gonna be the catalyst for a lot more activity dt IMO. It must be advertised around the entire region to get suburbanites to come find a parking deck and experience dt norfolk.

[Ghentite]

Waterside was just approved by City Council.  Per the deal, construction would begin in 6 months.  http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/08/city-council-finally-approves-waterside.html

[vdogg]

I still have no clue what this thing will actually look like. Anyone come across any new renderings?

[lil-bear]

UGH! I really have lost hope for this project and Norfolk CC for that matter! And I do think that Burfoot has been uncovered as corrupt!

[brikkman]

I still have no clue what this thing will actually look like. Anyone come across any new renderings?

as I understand, it will look the same with a glass roof on one part and neon lights with a possible stage and new marina...WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

They could have gotten a NSU, ODU, or even CNU to come up with a better idea for waterside 3.0

THE CC seem to like vision in terms of options for their citizen and surrounding communities. Maybe because all of them are old and washed up. Maybe they should set aside a position of two to be field by young, graduating students to help with such visions from their two local universities or even TCC. How could it possibly hurt? Remember, these are the same people that thought a street festival was ground breaking, fresh, and new. No way they would think in a million years people would enjoy this communion.

[Ghentite]

Had a chat with Kevin Murphy, the Downtown Norfolk Civic League President to discuss his view on Waterside and ask a few questions that I know have been discussed on here.

 

http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/10/10-burning-questions-on-waterside-live.html

[brikkman]

Had a chat with Kevin Murphy, the Downtown Norfolk Civic League President to discuss his view on Waterside and ask a few questions that I know have been discussed on here.

 

http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/10/10-burning-questions-on-waterside-live.html

Outstanding..

[urbanlife]

Sounds like he has some nostalgia for Waterside.

[jeffconn]

Article from today's V/P talking about the last Christmas for the old Waterside.

http://m.hamptonroads.com/svc/wlws.svc/getHtml#article/?sectionId=3600&feedId=6065&articleId=8807975

[brikkman]

" But it buckled after MacArthur Center opened in 1999"

I hate reading that because that isn't completely true. People who "think" they know what happen to waterside are just as lost as NHRA who managed it. Management globally was the issue in lieu of a changing 757. When Norfolk was the center piece of any and everything "entertainment", waterside thrived. That just wasn't the case in the mid 90s. Va.beach started to come into its own and other places around the region. That is what killed waterside, that coupled with management that could not understand the concept. When I was a kid, waterside was booming on a weekend, heck why not, what else were you going to do, where else would you take your kids, where else would you see tall buildings, busy streets, cars, just "life"? When you spread things like that around a region, then you have to change how you bring people to your place. Parking was a big turn off for a lot of people who had options. Places closing up because their was no entertainment to draw people in. when I was a kid, you could come to waterside and watch some people perform on stage, get something eat and just walk around a lively place. There were no bums, stinky walls or closed down places. it was a cool place to just be around... Take away the entertainment, throw in parking decks and not a lot of unique offerrings, you have what we have now. the crazy thing is, I believe when Waterside Live comes, it will be a bustle again, but for the older types. My only issue with this has been the fact that for years they said they wanted family orientated, but waterside live is exactly the opposite. So really, they cut the legs of waterside all by themselves. I feel sad for the people who invested in the place only to have the city make it hard for them to be successful. This is from a former Norfolk Resident, born and raised within walking distance (sort of) of waterside...

[brikkman]

I just realized how far this project is behind in making any kind of impact on DT. I thought it would be operating in 2014, but it doesn't seem like that will be the case unless Cordish is doing a lot of behind the scenes work.  Lets think about it.: They still have to do the renovation, hire people, scout/attract business. all of this and the contract really isn't signed yet.  I do not think we will see anything feasible from waterside this year at all....

[ntheo]

It will open in 2015. From news stories in September: The Cordish Companies’ $40 million investment will transform the waterfront marketplace into “Waterside Live”, an entertainment center with a concert venue, new restaurants, a marketplace and other features.  Norfolk City Councilman, Tommy Smigiel announced that Cordish will have six months to finish designing the project and 18 months to build it.  

 

I was there on Wednesday, and with the exception of the restaurants, the interior is being cleared out. The remaining stores and vendors are gone.

[brikkman]

It will open in 2015. From news stories in September: The Cordish Companies’ $40 million investment will transform the waterfront marketplace into “Waterside Live”, an entertainment center with a concert venue, new restaurants, a marketplace and other features.  Norfolk City Councilman, Tommy Smigiel announced that Cordish will have six months to finish designing the project and 18 months to build it.  

 

I was there on Wednesday, and with the exception of the restaurants, the interior is being cleared out. The remaining stores and vendors are gone.

Thanks for the info...