Waterside District

[vdogg]

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/05/norfolk-joes-crab-shack-settle-suits-over-waterside#_ga=1.16415540.385939631.1394095329

Lol, wow...just...wow. All of this bs to wind up with exactly the same tenant we had before. I mean, I'm glad they won because they were in the right but...wow. I wonder how many other tenants will be returning. If memory serves correctly, several of them filed lawsuits. This is Hampton Power Plant all over again, coincidentally built by the same company.

[HRVT]

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/05/norfolk-joes-crab-shack-settle-suits-over-waterside#_ga=1.16415540.385939631.1394095329

Lol, wow...just...wow. All of this bs to wind up with exactly the same tenant we had before. I mean, I'm glad they won because they were in the right but...wow. I wonder how many other tenants will be returning. If memory serves correctly, several of them filed lawsuits. This is Hampton Power Plant all over again, coincidentally built by the same company.

Big shock and I've called this for years. Cordish is all hat and no cattle. I mean, Cordish was trying to force out Joe's Crab Shack when the reality is that after their Hampton disappointment, they ended up with headline tenants of PBR, Luckie's, and.... Joe's Crab Shack. 

 

Just put Waterside out of its misery already and let's move on. If anything, extend Town Point Park in the meanwhile.

[vdogg]

Big shock and I've called this for years. Cordish is all hat and no cattle. I mean, Cordish was trying to force out Joe's Crab Shack when the reality is that after their Hampton disappointment, they ended up with headline tenants of PBR, Luckie's, and.... Joe's Crab Shack. 

 

Just put Waterside out of its misery already and let's move on. If anything, extend Town Point Park in the meanwhile.

Yup. Sure am glad Burfoot got his way... What gets me is the seeming inability of politicians in this area to actually read a newspaper and see what's going on in neighboring cities. Hampton got screwed over by the exact same company Norfolk pursued for this renovation. Norfolk got screwed over by the exact same company Virginia Beach is chasing for that maglev crap. I mean it's absolutely comical. These weren't small issues either, they were plastered all over the front page.

[BFG]

This is ridiculous. The more I hear about that place, the more I think Norfolk is just blowing smoke.

[Helium3]

Councilman Tommy Smigiel is "not stressed right now" about the progress of Waterside. “There is no real delay,” Smigiel said. “They are working on the plans for this, and pretty soon, we will start seeing the construction trucks.”

 

http://wavy.com/2015/05/21/is-anything-happening-at-waterside/

[HRVT]

Councilman Tommy Smigiel is "not stressed right now" about the progress of Waterside. “There is no real delay,” Smigiel said. “They are working on the plans for this, and pretty soon, we will start seeing the construction trucks.”

 

http://wavy.com/2015/05/21/is-anything-happening-at-waterside/

I find it funny that the timeline seems to start over every few months. No real delay? Earlier this year, construction was supposed to start later that month. Two years ago, construction was to begin that summer. Three years ago, construction was supposed to begin towards the end of the year.

 

The fact is that Waterside Live based on the original timelines should be complete and an option for entertainment in Norfolk now. A year or so ago, they finally dangled some tenants. None of which have moved in. I'll believe it when I see it, but this project looks to be dead to me.

 

And that's not just based on the whole Joe's Crab Shack fiasco. Cordish has already screwed up once around here (Hampton Power Plant). 

Edited May 22, 2015 by HRVT

[vdogg]

Councilman Tommy Smigiel is "not stressed right now" about the progress of Waterside. “There is no real delay,” Smigiel said. “They are working on the plans for this, and pretty soon, we will start seeing the construction trucks.”

 

http://wavy.com/2015/05/21/is-anything-happening-at-waterside/

Sounds a bit like Buddy Gadams "2 more weeks ". We all know how that turned out. Being as I thought something else should've been done with the property, I'll be honest in saying I have no real investment in this project. I would not be totally upset to see this thing fall through and have Norfolk go back to the drawing board with some fresher plans.

[BFG]

I think most people have come to terms with the idea that this is going to quietly fade away. No one has any expectations anymore. Norfolk has been talking about that property for close to 10 years now, and still nothing.

I'd love to know the results of the survey they had a few years ago. But honestly, I'm not holding my breath on this or SPQ, to be honest. I guess I'll believe it when it happens.

[brikkman]

I think most people have come to terms with the idea that this is going to quietly fade away. No one has any expectations anymore. Norfolk has been talking about that property for close to 10 years now, and still nothing.

I'd love to know the results of the survey they had a few years ago. But honestly, I'm not holding my breath on this or SPQ, to be honest. I guess I'll believe it when it happens.

I think I was the only one who did like the SPQ plan...

but oh well, no surprises here...

I don't care what happens, but a park isn't the best idea, its the worst plan of them all.

[BFG]

I think I was the only one who did like the SPQ plan...

I loved SPQ. I thought it was a really good chance to expand downtown, but would like the buildings to be a little taller (more 15-25 story buildings, with a couple in the 30s), and a nice mix of residential and more innovative designs like the Slover.

 

But, with the one apartment being "put on hold", looks like none of that is happening. Bummer.

[skylinefan]

I just read somewhere about a recent survey of Downtown residents asking them what improvements to Downtown they would like to see.  One was to calm the traffic on Waterside Drive by adding bike lanes increasing the size of sidewalks etc.  I made the same suggestion in an earlier post on integrating Waterside into Downtown.  One problem with Waterside is its inaccessibility to the rest of Downtown.  I hope the city looks into calming the traffic on Waterside Drive while they build out Waterside Live.

[ntheo]

Yes, it is part of the upcoming strategic plan to make downtown more pedestrian/bike friendly. Traffic calming for Waterside, Brambleton and St. Paul's. A dedicated bike lane on Granby St. from 21 st to Waterside Dr. In addition, creating more E/W pedestrian/bike routes for Olney (to NSU), Freemason (to Tidewater Dr.) and Main (to Harbor Park). SPQ is part of the broader plan.

[metalman]

It's traffic calming in one place traffic jamming in another?

There is already a ground level pedestrian cross to Waterside, the raised ped. bridge and traffic signals, No? Bike lanes sound great, but lots of bicyclists forget that they too need to obey traffic laws.

I've never been detered to go to Waterside because of inaccessibility. Have any of you?

[brikkman]

me either. Parking has been an issue while weighing other options. as other parts of the 757 built out, waterside became less important to people when it came to entertainment and place to be.  Cities fault, but I will always support, I think the location is a nice one, especially during fest time.

[BFG]

A few years ago, I used to party a lot in Waterside when Jillians and the other bars were open. Neither parking nor distance were ever factors. We'd park at the Marriott or in the Main Street garage, then just walk the block or two. On some nights, we'd even migrate over to Granby, so I don't think there were too many detachment problems.

 

At this point, I just want to see Waterside re-open at 100%. 

[skylinefan]

Waterside Drive was never a deterrent to me either, but I had heard over the years that it has been a deterrent to many other people.  The time has long come for Waterside to be made more accessible to not just cars, but people too.  I still think that traffic calming is badly needed on Waterside Drive.  The width of street encourages speeding mostly by people headed to their homes in Virginia Beach.  With Downtown Norfolk's population growing more people who visit Waterside Live will walk and would appreciate not running for their lives across Waterside Dr.

[brikkman]

A few years ago, I used to party a lot in Waterside when Jillians and the other bars were open. Neither parking nor distance were ever factors. We'd park at the Marriott or in the Main Street garage, then just walk the block or two. On some nights, we'd even migrate over to Granby, so I don't think there were too many detachment problems.

 

At this point, I just want to see Waterside re-open at 100%. 

 I think Joe's is killing the vibe now man, lol. I was really hoping for a powerplanet live type of thing.  Leaving joes would give that Powerplanet vibe and not powerplant live vibe.  HR needs live entertainment that isn't managed by big venues like norva, scope, ted.  Something for the local bands to get on The bar/live band scene is big here...That is what they do here in bmore. And it works great with TPP festivals...Perfect place for people to file over to once the fest is over for a given day.

[zeppelin14]

Radical idea, but why not tear up Waterside Drive completely from St. Paul's Blvd. to W. Main St.? The main traffic coming from the I-264 off ramp could just curve into St. Paul's and the main thoroughfair could be Main Street. Take away the parallel parking on Main St. to enable more traffic and some much needed attention to an otherwise dead road. Waterside Drive between St. Paul's and W. Main St. could then be much like an extension of Town Point Park with a bike and walking path, remove the walkway from the garage to Waterside, and put some small shops and kiosks all around. It could be much like how Granby Street was when it was strictly pedestrian back in the day.

 

Sample pic of what downtown could look like. Yellow is where main traffic could be rerouted and widen Main Street by getting rid of street parking. Green line would be bike, walking path and small shops. Red are existing streets that would be made into dead ends. Blue is Water Street and Sheraton loop.

 

[jeffconn]

Radical idea, but why not tear up Waterside Drive completely from St. Paul's Blvd. to W. Main St.? The main traffic coming from the I-264 off ramp could just curve into St. Paul's and the main thoroughfair could be Main Street. Take away the parallel parking on Main St. to enable more traffic and some much needed attention to an otherwise dead road. Waterside Drive between St. Paul's and W. Main St. could then be much like an extension of Town Point Park with a bike and walking path, remove the walkway from the garage to Waterside, and put some small shops and kiosks all around. It could be much like how Granby Street was when it was strictly pedestrian back in the day.

 

Sample pic of what downtown could look like. Yellow is where main traffic could be rerouted and widen Main Street by getting rid of street parking. Green line would be bike, walking path and small shops. Red are existing streets that would be made into dead ends. Blue is Water Street and Sheraton loop.

 

That would never fly. The traffic around the courthouse now is pretty bad. This would turn St. Pauls and Main Street into a parking lot during rush hours, and would kill any foot traffic on Main.

[Si7i]

I took a walk over to Waterside today and the building is now locked with both Hooter's and Joe's Crab Shack are closed and the equipment has been removed. I'm pretty sure this means there will be interior demo and construction work going on soon.

Its been like that for weeks though, They are really dragging their feet on this / so disappointed when I was over there too I really wanted to got to Hooters

[HRVT]

Its been like that for weeks though, They are really dragging their feet on this / so disappointed when I was over there too I really wanted to got to Hooters

I was gonna say. I'll believe that things are progressing where there are real CONSTRUCTION photos. Not simply the removal of equipment that would normally be there.

 

I don't see Waterside Live ever being a real thing.

[lil-bear]

I agree, I think that something is beginning to smell fishy with this whole deal. Not sure what it is, but it may be political.

We will see.

[757Duke]

Not that it tells much, but Waterside Live now has a website. http://watersidelive.com/

 

Also, they've updated some of the signage at the facility to reflect the Waterside Live rebranding. Hopefully construction starts soon.

[HRVT]

So I followed the link to the leasing info. document. It looks like five or six leases are in place. Shark Bar, PBR Big Sky, Howl at the Moon, McFadden's (Irish sports saloon), Kill Devil Club (jazz bar.) It looks like most of these are at other Cordish properties, such as Power & Light District in KC, but only PBR is already in this market.

And McFadden's was originally part of the Hampton Power Plant (until Luckies took that spot over). However, I had a great time at the now closed Howl at the Moon in New Orleans a few years ago. So the signs are a little better and it doesn't appear to be quite the retread it originally looked like. But I'm still extremely skeptical. But the progress that they have made of late is more than we have seen over the last 5 years combined.

 

What is interesting to note is the plans to Jacksonville Landing. The renovation that Jacksonville is getting include an attached hotel, high rise condos, and more outside access. Interestingly enough, the plans that are currently in place for Waterside look very close to those of the way Jacksonville Landing was laid out when I was there 10 years ago.

 

http://news.wjct.org/post/media-roundtable-jax-landing-plans-include-complete-redesign-renovation

Edited July 6, 2015 by HRVT

[BFG]

Pleasantly surprised at the restaurants. I think DC had a McFadden's as well...had no idea that the restaurant is actually a chain. I thought the one at Power Plant was just coincidence in name.

 

Regardless, I like that the selection (so far) is not just stuff you could easily get in Virginia Beach or Chesapeake. That said, I think a Benihana overlooking the water would be pretty cool...that's one restaurant this area doesn't have. I also wouldn't mind seeing Hooters and Outback return, given the selection.