The State of Downtown Retail

[g-man430]

I would just like to say this thread has gotten more posts today than probably any other one on this site and I agree with Skyliner that this is NOT a good problem at all. I wonder if the GPS systems people are putting in their cars had affected the Map Shop's business before they closed?

Edited January 30, 2007 by g-man430

[Greenville]

I don't want to see businesses close up and move to the West End, personally. I am enjoying the new options there, but it is not at the level of North Main in pure urbanity, in my opinion.

I totally agree. We need NEW things in the West End, not transplants from downtown. So far, so good.

[mallguy]

I liked Earshot a lot, too; I bought a few things there. But these days, brick-and-mortar music retailers just aren't doing well. Even Sam Goody, FYE, Tower Records (liquidated) and others have been hurt by iPods and the Internet.

I'm curious as to why the building owner rented (?) space to Earshot, given that the store is part of a troubled industry. I don't see many new national chain music stores in malls these days.

Edited January 30, 2007 by mallguy

[linkerjpatrick]

Some you are acting like the "Westend" and the more northern part of Main Street are two separate cities or worlds apart when in fact they are only a few blocks away. I've parked and walked longer distances while downtown without hardly breaking a sweat. The west end is just getting a lot of press because it was in the pits for so long. As charming a Bentley's was I could have gotten the same merchandise at the Anderson Jockey lot. Seriously I walked into Bentley's before Christmas and was shocked they were selling that kind of product in such a prime spot. Earshot was already outdated. I can sit in any coffee shop with my laptop, listen to sample and buy music from iTunes. As neat as the Map Shop was I never find myself thinking, hey I need to go get my a speciality map or some geographic merchandise. Yes, things like GPS, Google Maps/Google Earth pretty much suite my map need. For the most part it was the Internet, not high rental rates or other issues that may have closed those businesses. Heck, I've even been know to go to Barnes and Noble, get online and look for better deals on books I found in the store on Amazon! Horizon records on the other hand is surviving because they offer something harder to find than what you can get online (hard not impossible).

[g-man430]

The problem is the North Main area north of the Reedy River really has nothing to offer except for the Peace Center along with hotels, while the West End has Falls Park, West End Field, Riverplace, New rails to trails, etc. I figured GPS and things like that were hurting The Map Shop.

Edited January 30, 2007 by g-man430

[Greenville]

The problem is the North Main area north of the Reedy River really has nothing to offer except for the Peace Center along with hotels, while the West End has Falls Park, West End Field, Riverplace, New rails to trails, etc. I figured GPS and things like that were hurting The Map Shop.

In addition to the Peace Center and hotels, I would also add restaurants to the downtown scene. The West End has some good ones, but currently it can't touch downtown.

[Chickenwing]

I agree with what you are saying about drawing in pedestrian traffic to buy. The unfortunate thing is that most U.S. consumers have become "brainwashed" to look for the absolute best deal.....therefore the rapid expansion of the TJ Maxx, Ross, Stein Mart, Costco's of the world. I say that, because any downtown in any city is really tough. Any single owner, gift type store that sells unique items is going to have a cost structure that makes it hard to compete with the big boxes of the world. This wasn't so much the issue in years past when all that big boxes sold was cheap crap, but now we have big box companies that have fashion sense and good taste. It's really hard to compete with a company that can sell good taste on the cheap.

I have a friend that had a business in DC in Georgetown immediately off M Street. Great area with great foot traffic. He sold contemporary home items (Jonathan Adler and the like). He just closed this past year and said he simply could not make enough money. He always had good traffic in the store, but his view is that the American consumer has become a bunch of cheapskates. His store had on street parking in the front and he's told me how a woman would drive up in a new S Class Mercedes, then come in his store and want to haggle over the price of item. American consumers are cheap....they want the most bang for the buck, and they want to take it out of the store owners pockets.

Unless you are well backed with dollars, retail is simply hard.

Count me as part of the group that wants the best deal on the cheapest crap. Everything is disposible these days, so you don't need it to last. Tastes/what is cool are changing more rapidly, and people want to keep up or change more often. It doesn't make sense to buy something that is twice or 3 times more expensive when you change it and save money.

Haggling over price is what I do. I will do it anywhere, and have even done it at Walmart. Sometimes you get a price break and sometimes you don't, but it never hurts to ask. If I save a few bucks, then I just got a "free" lunch. There is nothing wrong with being cheap.

I guess what I am saying is that I will always look for the best price on commodities/goods. I am not going to pay more to subsidize a poor business model.

Services is a completely different story, and I will pay more for better service. If these small shops really want to differentiate themselves, they need to offer more in the way of value added services. If they cannot offer something more, then they do not deserve my hard earned money.

[breed]

Services is a completely different story, and I will pay more for better service. If these small shops really want to differentiate themselves, they need to offer more in the way of value added services. If they cannot offer something more, then they do not deserve my hard earned money.

I think that is a lesson well taken to heart. Many local stores complain becuase they can't compete on price. A local retailer that attempts to compete based on price alone is likely going to fail. They need to provide something extra. Being on Main Street in Greenville can be considered an "extra," but the development of the West End has decreased the advantage that provided.

I read an article... I think in Planning magazine, talking about a trend of privately subsidized retail. A bookstore being run by a lawyer's office (primarily carried legal books, but also popular books as well)... a coffee shop being run by an architecture firm... etc... instances where the niche retail wasn't necessarily generating revenue, but the ability to use the place as a recruitment amenity and marketing tool more than covered the costs for the owners.

I wonder if any downtown retailers operate in such a fashion.

[GvilleSC]

I saw this on Facebook today and it was really encouraging. There is a "SAVE OCHA" group. There are 363 members, too! That's a lot of young people who want to see O-cha stay. From their posts on the page, they seem to be frequenting the tea bar to help it out.

[Spartan]

I'm not familiar with this at all, but is this a lot different from the West End Association or the Downtown Business Association?

It would be similar, but different. A Business Association is similar, but is a totally private entity that acts more as a "lobbying" group than anything. A BID is a public/private partnership that acts more like a mall. It generates funding revenue through membership fees usually based on what you pay in property taxes. They key difference is that they require some sort of legislation and have some authority because of it.

I saw this on Facebook today and it was really encouraging. There is a "SAVE OCHA" group. There are 363 members, too! That's a lot of young people who want to see O-cha stay. From their posts on the page, they seem to be frequenting the tea bar to help it out.

Thatrs good news... but where were these people before the place announced it was going to close? I want to see every successful business stay, but I see no point in keeping one artificially afloat.

Also, I never thought OCHA was hard to find? They have very visible signs, IMO. I just have no desire to go there. I think that a "tea bar" would be more sucessful as part of a coffee house (which people are more familiar with).

[RestedTraveler]

I saw this on Facebook today and it was really encouraging. There is a "SAVE OCHA" group. There are 363 members, too! That's a lot of young people who want to see O-cha stay. From their posts on the page, they seem to be frequenting the tea bar to help it out.

They've changed their photo on MySpace as well...they've got a photo of the front entrance with a big arrow superimposed on it saying "ENTRANCE." It seems they're at least partially taking some of the brain storming to heart.

[Greenville]

I saw this on Facebook today and it was really encouraging. There is a "SAVE OCHA" group. There are 363 members, too! That's a lot of young people who want to see O-cha stay. From their posts on the page, they seem to be frequenting the tea bar to help it out.

Thanks for the heads up. I just joined (and the total is now 401 members).

[gs3]

I saw this on Facebook today and it was really encouraging. There is a "SAVE OCHA" group. There are 363 members, too! That's a lot of young people who want to see O-cha stay. From their posts on the page, they seem to be frequenting the tea bar to help it out.

This is why I love Greenville. A place announces it may close and people rally behind it. If this is artificially keeping the store open is debatable. To me it shows caring and smarts by the citizens......something many cities could take a lesson in.

[mallguy]

At least Mast General Store is going strong- if that store had problems I'd be very concerned, just as when Belk's and the other anchors downtown left in 1980, leading to closures of a ton of small mall-type stores within the next few years.

[deltad22]

At least Mast General Store is going strong- if that store had problems I'd be very concerned, just as when Belk's and the other anchors downtown left in 1980, leading to closures of a ton of small mall-type stores within the next few years.

The bottom line here is that you need stores that appeal to the average person. Trendy shops are nice, but can only survive so long. How about a eddie bauer, or ll.bean. These types of stores would fit great in downtown greenville.

[g-man430]

The bottom line here is that you need stores that appeal to the average person. Trendy shops are nice, but can only survive so long. How about a eddie bauer, or ll.bean. These types of stores would fit great in downtown greenville.

It's nice to have stores that are different than what the average person shops at, but I do agree with you that downtown Greenville does need more national retailers that appeal to the average person to make downtown thrive even more than it is currently.

[RestedTraveler]

Did anybody see JB's article on this very topic in this week's Greenville Journal? I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it here yet.

Here are a few photos to support this discussion...

Trees being removed and (soon to be) replaced with concrete to add for the possibility of additional outdoor seating (I've counted at least six trees that have been taken out within the past couple of weeks - the first to go were in front of Port City Java - these are near Washington & Main):

One business (Regan's) gone, the other (Subway) relocated down the street:

Bentley's ... gone:

Sunshine of Greenville ... gone:

Barefoot Comfort Company ... relocated next door:

Intuition ... gone:

Eden Limited ... going, going, but not yet gone:

Others (not pictured):

• Earshot
  
• The Map Shop
  

[GvilleSC]

You know, I've read it on here and it disturbed me, but I have not seen the store fronts since any closed. I must say that it has hit me the hardest seeing them through your pictures, RT. Last time I drove down Main, there were official looking people with clipboards and whatnot looking at the old subway location. Hopefully renovations and stuff will soon follow..?

I HOPE that this tree removal is in accordance with the suggestions by the 'tree expert', So that this will keep our wonderful trees alive and well.

[RestedTraveler]

On the up side, I saw a couple of new additions during this short walk along North Main: Carolina Chocolates (which we've previously discussed on here) and a place selling Gift Baskets (Baskets and Bows, I think is the name of it). And, of course, I took a jaunt up the stairs at O-Cha for a bubble tea, too. They seem to have been pretty busy...at least people were camped out with laptops everywhere, whether they were making purchases or not.

I still think it'll take only one major destination retailer to draw people to this section of North Main and turn everything around ... in particular, I'd love to see it be a book store (Borders, specifically).

Edited February 4, 2007 by RestedTraveler

[Spartan]

I think that you can rest assured that the City won't do anything to its trees that would destroy the feel of Main St. In fact, I hope they plan to take out a few more and replace them with new ones.... sooner or later these things are going to die and you'll need/want a replacement canopy.

[gs3]

Here is one of the openings. Jimmy John's (if not already open), looks to be opening any day.

[g-man430]

^^^I rode by there yesterday and there were at least 10 people working on it, so it shouldn't be too far from opening. I would think they would do good business especially after McBee Station and the Peacock Hotel and Spa are finished.

[GvilleSC]

I rode by Jimmy John's the other day and they looked to be training employees. It's great to see a new establishment of any kind at the farthest point of the block off Main.

[RestedTraveler]

I HOPE that this tree removal is in accordance with the suggestions by the 'tree expert', So that this will keep our wonderful trees alive and well.

I'm not sure if that is the case. The trees that have been removed are in specifically targeted areas where the sidewalk naturally widens out anyway and they seem to be removing the trees simply to provide for more outdoor patio space and nothing more than that. They're definitely not doing anything to take away from the beautiful canopy along Main Street, nor would they, just as Spartan suggested. They're just trying to help make it more pedestrian friendly, I think. I certainly see some wise restaurants in the future putting outdoor dining in these areas once the trunks are ground out and new concrete is put in place.

[GvilleSC]

I think both can be acheived at the same time. Create more sidewalk space AND give the trees more room to "branch" out and prosper (less competition for space-- for both people and trees!)