The State of Downtown Retail

[vicupstate]

It could be a city code issue, instead of the landlord.

[charlie swords]

It could be a city code issue, instead of the landlord.

the city will usually allow it as long as you get an air rights permit and it usually has to be at least 9' in the air. if memory serves me correctly most of the front of that building is windows, so there may be no good place to hang one...putting something in the entrance window may be an option but once again there are permits to deal with and i can't remember if they already have some decals on the window...

[RestedTraveler]

the city will usually allow it as long as you get an air rights permit and it usually has to be at least 9' in the air. if memory serves me correctly most of the front of that building is windows, so there may be no good place to hang one...putting something in the entrance window may be an option but once again there are permits to deal with and i can't remember if they already have some decals on the window...

They have very thin decals on the window, if I recall...not anything that really catches light enough to jump out at you as you're walking by. I'll have to double check this, though, as now I'm not even 100% certain there are decals in the window...

[btoy]

I went by O-Cha tea bar today and after seeing where they were located they deserve to close. How stupid are we getting in this country? What person puts a store in an area where nobody can see it? It's only upstairs, has a sign that you can hardly notice, and the entrance is very small and not noticeable at all. Without knowing it was next to Venti, I never would of found the place. I'm not trying to be mean about it, i'm just saying how can a company like this think they're going to make it when they locate in a place nobody can see them?

One could say the same thing about Chicora Alley, yet they have thrived.

[linkerjpatrick]

One could say the same thing about Chicora Alley, yet they have thrived.

What's Chicora Alley?

[RestedTraveler]

What's Chicora Alley?

http://www.chicoraalley.com/

[g-man430]

That Go Fish store across from Falls Park on Main St. in the West End is now open.

[linkerjpatrick]

http://www.chicoraalley.com/

Oh ok, it's a bar. I'm just not a "bar person" so it really never crossed my radar.

[GE Turbine Man]

Not just a bar, but a really good mexican/Caribbean themed restaurant. Its about as much as a bar as Applebee's is a bar.

[linkerjpatrick]

Not just a bar, but a really good mexican/Caribbean themed restaurant. Its about as much as a bar as Applebee's is a bar.

Ok, well the photos on the site seemed to imply it was a very wild place with a bunch of people sauced out of their gourd. I'm not one of these types who won't go to a bar because they serve alcohol I'm just not the wild party type (as those photos imply). It's not my age (40) however. I never did the "Thursday night thing" in college either. Mexican/Caribbean themed sound pretty good however. Maybe I'll visit in the day sometime.

[RestedTraveler]

You'll be hard pressed to find any Caribbean-themed restaurant that doesn't focus heavily on rum. This reminds me...I'd love to see a Bahama Breeze open in Greenville.

[Greenville]

You'll be hard pressed to find any Caribbean-themed restaurant that doesn't focus heavily on rum. This reminds me...I'd love to see a Bahama Breeze open in Greenville.

Me too. It would be a nice fit at Verdae, once that gets going more. Or maybe even near I-385 and the Carolina First Center as part of the city's revitalization plans.

[GE Turbine Man]

Ok, so I went by the O-Cha today, and I can tell you, its not the location that did this place in. While the signage could be better (See below), the place is just plain to big. If anyone has been to it, please chime in, but in a business model where they rent by the square footage, this place probably utilizes less than a quarter of the total area. Lots of empty space. Owner told me they had 2600+ square feet, in which there is about 10 small tables, some couches in the back, and a couple TV's. Space would make a great restaurant (Something I'd like to do one of these days), or even split it up to help pay the lease.

I apologize for the sideways picture, but I don't have a flipping application right now.

The Signage to me looks ok, but I actually didn't see it as we walked by from the other side of the road, my wife did. And I was kind of looking for it. There is a sign at ground level in the VENTI restaurant window, another bigger above it that looks like it could be lit. when we walked by there was also a pup tent sign in the walkway. All in all, not all that bad, but again, I didn't spot it walking by.

Oh yea, and Chicora Alley is a pretty upscale restaurant, and VERY good if you like that kind of food. The bar area may get a little rowdy after hours, but I've never seen it, guess I've never been there late enough. But we've eaten dinner there several times and love it.

Edited January 27, 2007 by GE Turbine Man

[Spartan]

I will still continue to assert that, in my humble opinion, a healthy mix (or weave, would be more accurate) of national chains and local stores would be good. The national chains would draw people into downtown that might not otherwise come into downtown to shop. While there, their traffic and dollars would spill over to the lucky local stores that happen to be located in between the national chain stores.

I agree 100%. Once Greenville attracts that major retailer to downtown it will really start to solidify. Most successful urban places have a mix of chains and local palces.

This is another reason why downtown Greenville needs coordinated marketing, with a mall-type website (perhaps http://www.shopdowntowngreenville.com?) listing the stores and restaurants downtown.

Before I visit a mall, I go to the website and like to run my mouse around the mallmanac to see what stores are there, as I might miss some if I just go straight to the mall and walk around. I then know for sure what I do not want to miss in the mall, and some out-of-the-way/relatively obscure stores get my business that way.

YES! The reason is because Greenville doesn't have a Business Improvement District!! A BID (or Center City Partnership (CCP)) is an organization that has the authority to raise funds to help improve the district, which can inlcude marketing, transportation, art, etc. anything that can help out business.

Here are some from the region:

Atlanta

http://www.atlantadowntown.com/

http://midtownatlanta.org/

http://www.buckhead.net/

Charlotte

http://www.charlottecentercity.org/

Columbia

http://www.citycentercolumbia.sc/

I think that an organization like this would be great for Greenville.

[GvilleSC]

YES! The reason is because Greenville doesn't have a Business Improvement District!! A BID (or Center City Partnership (CCP)) is an organization that has the authority to raise funds to help improve the district, which can inlcude marketing, transportation, art, etc. anything that can help out business.

Here are some from the region:

Atlanta

http://www.atlantadowntown.com/

http://midtownatlanta.org/

http://www.buckhead.net/

Charlotte

http://www.charlottecentercity.org/

Columbia

http://www.citycentercolumbia.sc/

I think that an organization like this would be great for Greenville.

I'm not familiar with this at all, but is this a lot different from the West End Association or the Downtown Business Association?

[GvilleSC]

Actually, the city must looking into something of the sort, check out this PDF of the Downtown Action Plan. On page two, a competion date for a study of Business Improvement Districts has completed as of December of last year.

Downtown Action Plan

[RestedTraveler]

...Lots of empty space. Owner told me they had 2600+ square feet, in which there is about 10 small tables, some couches in the back, and a couple TV's. Space would make a great restaurant (Something I'd like to do one of these days), or even split it up to help pay the lease...

Yes, I agree - the place is pretty empty, especially up front. They could seriously either sub lease the front area as a gallery or something to help pay the rent. It would make a great space to display art. Either that, or they could put in more couches and partitions with televisions up front to make the front as cozy as the back.

There isn't a decal in the window down front, but what looks like a large glass etching of the O-Cha logo? Maybe it is a decal? Either way, it's there and it's very subtle and almost translucent. The place is pretty easily noticed from across the street, especially during the winter without the trees blocking the view.

Speaking of trees...anybody notice the ones that were removed from in front of Port City Java and Quiznos? I noticed the stumps last weekend, but those are gone now and they've put in some concrete where they were to make for more seating out on the sidewalk.

[mallguy]

Does anyone know how well Rush Wilson and Ballew & Scott do?

I've bought a few things at both stores- particularly Rush Wilson- and after a recent shopping disaster at Neiman Marcus, with incredibly arrogant and condescending service, in comparison Rush Wilson has been exceptional, and B&S also seems to have first-rate service.

I know that B&S has been there since the '80s, and Rush Wilson has been in business ever since the 1950s, and since I don't know of anywhere else in Greenville that has Burberry, Oxxford, etc., I'd assume that they have more or less a lock on the high-end men's clothing market and thus must do fine, but any insider info about either place?

I'd also assume that both stores own their buildings and thus that the owners must be pretty well off? I hope so; nice stores run by nice, considerate people should do well!

Edited January 28, 2007 by mallguy

[charlie swords]

the etching at Ocha probably is a decal there are materiels to do that and doing the actual glass etching would be kinda pricey but they may have put the money into it...I think they would be better off with a small hanging sign on the window similar to what SIP had if it was allowed.

I assume Rush Wilson does okay since they just did a remodel and got new signage.

[Beowulf]

OK, I think I'm going to be very, very ill. I just read in today's paper that The Map Shop has closed. That was one of my destination shops for downtown, not just to window shop, but to actually buy stuff.

I can understand RT's angst at O-Cha now. It's one thing to talk about closings in general, but when a place you really liked closes, it hurts.

[gs3]

Rush-Wilson must do very well, as they just remodeled this past year.

Every post I'm reading about O-Cha....more signage, street level activity, in your face advertising, easier for kids, etc really goes against why I like the place. I like that it's hidden, tucked upstairs, does very little advertising and isn't welcoming to children. Gives it a certain vibe....although obviously a vibe that isn't working, I must admit. There must be more people out there that think like me? Maybe not. Hmmm.

[RestedTraveler]

Rush-Wilson must do very well, as they just remodeled this past year.

Every post I'm reading about O-Cha....more signage, street level activity, in your face advertising, easier for kids, etc really goes against why I like the place. I like that it's hidden, tucked upstairs, does very little advertising and isn't welcoming to children. Gives it a certain vibe....although obviously a vibe that isn't working, I must admit. There must be more people out there that think like me? Maybe not. Hmmm.

I'm sure there are more people that think like you, gs! I was, at one time (before kids), one of them. I think we are, by and large, just trying to think of ways to help them improve their traffic since they have openly asked the community for support lest they become yet another North Main closure.

[gs3]

I'm sure there are more people that think like you, gs! I was, at one time (before kids), one of them. I think we are, by and large, just trying to think of ways to help them improve their traffic since they have openly asked the community for support lest they become yet another North Main closure.

Yep, I agree we need to help them.....I just don't understand this one as I thought they had the perfect model.

[GE Turbine Man]

I don't have anything against the way O-cha runs their shop, and I whole heartily agree that a "Secret" place that you have to be in the know to go to is awesome (Speak-easy type thing). But it makes a really crappy business model if the place stays so secret that no one goes to it.

Again, I think they would be fine with 1/4 of the space, which could save them a lot in rent, which would greatly lower the overhead.

[goodbye]

OK, I think I'm going to be very, very ill. I just read in today's paper that The Map Shop has closed. That was one of my destination shops for downtown, not just to window shop, but to actually buy stuff.

I can understand RT's angst at O-Cha now. It's one thing to talk about closings in general, but when a place you really liked closes, it hurts.

You can add my name to RT's in this regard. Above, in this thread, I posted what I feel about these downtown closures. As I said, if it were a only a couple shops closing, we would not feel as bad. The termination of several downtown favorites (small, but "iconic" attractions, in my mind) is extremely disturbing, not to mention justification for much inner anguish. To be honest, I have been so sick lately of all the negative changes in downtown Greenville that I am currently looking elsewhere for physical and emotional comfort. I am confident that all things will eventually settle down and positive strides will be made here, but in the meantime, I am feeling depressed as a citizen and longtime supporter of my beloved hometown, Greenville. My spirit is weakened but not defeated, and I would love nothing more than to once again proudly proclaim her name and beauty throughout the World.