Nashville International Airport Development thread

[BnaBreaker]

8 hours ago, Melrose said:

LOL, don't want to come down hard on 1-24!  Just the distinction between how TDOT is treating this signage as a transit/traffic solution rather than a perfectly nice informational upgrade. ...

Exactly... it's not that there's anything wrong with those informational signs, it's that an addition like that is the absolute bare minimum investment we should expect for a highly trafficked urban expressway.   It's as if TDOT thinks that doing literally anything beyond simply adding more lanes checks the box for 'alternative traffic calming solutions,' so they put up a couple signs and pat themselves on the back for being so forward thinking and call it a day (or in TDOT's case, call it a couple decades)... it's almost like this one thing that should be just a tiny piece of a much larger puzzle, TDOT sees as THE WHOLE PUZZLE.   'Welp, we put up a sign that tells people there is traffic ahead, our job here is done!'  Meanwhile, even after all of the state's supposed "investments," the urban areas of Tennessee are still stuck in more or less the same position they were each in forty years ago with regard to transportation in general.  It's maddening.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by BnaBreaker

[smeagolsfree]

The SMART system does not work unless everyone uses their smart cruise control which not everyone has. They wasted their money for now. They newer cars have built in sensors that keep the distance between cars at an even distance but if you keep that off then the system does not work. All it takes is one driver to screw the works up and the system is worthless. There is no such thing as a smart corridor unless the system drives the car for you.

[Luvemtall]

And with the price and complexity of newer cars, a lot of people are choosing to buy or keep older vehicles because they are less expensive and easier to maintain. I have a 2006 Dodge Pickup that I will not get rid of, it cost 26.00 dollars a month for insurance and 85.00 dollars a year to register. The whole engine was just rebuilt for 4,000 and it’s a v6 that gets 22 mpg , why would I  want to buy a 80,000 dollar new POS ! My wife has a brand new SUV with all those bells and whistles, it is also a v6 and gets 20 mpg but the insurance is 250. 00 a month and a freaking oil change is 150.00 ! And the damn thing drives me crazy with all those gizmos beeping and talking to you about how you’re driving. 

[Bos2Nash]

23 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

That would be just too easy! Besides They didn't think of it. A nice park & ride station somewhere downtown or at the convention center.

I agree with Park and Rides on the periphery of the city, but tin the core it would need to be within an existing structure (if at all). I think the Convention Center is a spot like you said. There are soooo many parking spots under there that BNA someone could in theory, park (and pay) and take a shuttle/bus to the airport. The idea of a dedicated bus from downtown should cater more to folks who aren't driving. Some may say that is not the reality of our city, but we need to start leading the city rather than following. Besides, if I was in/around downtown and I had a car, I am not going to drive somewhere else downtown just to get a bus. I am either going to uber or drive to the airport.

21 hours ago, CenterHill said:

"Airport leaders have hired a traffic analysis firm to evaluate opportunities to improve the ramp at I-40 exit 216A."

A little late to think of that.   

I still think the elimination of the on-site cell waiting lot is a BIG part of the current congestion problem.  I was at the airport picking up and dropping off passengers over Thanksgiving weekend and saw people improvising left and right.   Parking on the shoulders of Donelson Pike or just pulling over on the I-40 and Donelson Pike entrance ramps or anywhere they could find, all of which slows down traffic flow.   Plus there are people who just circle the interior loop repeatedly until their passenger is ready for pickup.   Making the first 30 minutes in short term parking free may help with this - IF there are designated spaces.   The garages stay at capacity most of the time.    That essentially would turn the short term garages into cell waiting - if MNAA is able to get the message out that it's available.    Other than that, I don't know what the answer is.   Sounds like MNAA doesn't either.    

Emphasis bolded. I think a short term free situation may help lessen the congestion at drop off/pick up, but maybe marginally? I wouldn't say it needs designated spots for it, but just upgrade the parking equipment for reading the tickets pulled at the gate.

Correct me if I am wrong, but ride share is allowed to drop off at the terminal, yes? If all ride share is required to do drop off/pickup in the first floor of the parking garage, that may help with traffic at the terminal door. Granted they still need to get into the airport (and through the interstate traffic), but maybe it could help? Many other larger airports (I know Boston's Logan specifically) require ride share to go into the central parking structure for designated drop off and pickup. 

Last meetup there was discussion about the dedicated ROW for buses (possibly eventually train) from the airport to downtown. There is the WeGo bus route that was mentioned above, but why doesn't BNA just step up and provide a dedicated bus express service? This could be an expandable service too. Start out with a coach style bus that goes from the ride share level of the parking garage to say the east end of the Convention Center (have the stop on Rep John Lewis Way). Future expansion of the bus service could then take travelers (paying travelers) to destinations in Franklin, Mt. Juliet, Ashland City and Hendersonville. BNA would own these coach buses and there could be park and rides at each of these expanded terminals (not downtown). Massport's service, Logan Express, runs this service almost 24 hours a day for like $9.00 each way (way cheaper than an uber or parking). By the way, Massport is the State run operator of Logan International Airport along with other services. The Framingham station (which me and my family up north use frequently) runs their early-bird bus at 2:15 am and then every 30 minutes between 3:00am and 11:00pm. Buses back to Framingham from Logan run every 30 minutes between 6:30am and midnight with a final bus leaving at 1:15am. Logan Express also has their downtown route go every 30 minutes between 5:00am and 10:00pm, this service is also supplemented but the MBTA Silver Line, Shuttles to the Blue Line and then more traditional ride share pickup/drop off. Because BNA would only have the Express bus and then WeGo, maybe they work to together to revise the 18 Route's headways from 45 minutes to 30 minutes and have a 15 minute offset from the Express bus. This would have a 15 minutes headway for a dedicated bus route downtown.

[Luvemtall]

They don’t want to hear “ the way we do it up North” even though us Yankees know how to transit!! 

[Bos2Nash]

3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

They don’t want to hear “ the way we do it up North” even though us Yankees know how to transit!! 

bahaha oh don't I know it. 

[Chato_reyes]

Why is a third of economy C still closed, and couldn't MNAA been creative in delineating some of the C lot as a cell phone lot (red) and reopen the closed segment (green) to make up for loss of spots? Just doesn't seem like they're thinking critically up there.

[smeagolsfree]

The other problem with a park and ride station downtown taking folks to the airport is they are stuck in the same traffic everyone else is as the state will not allow a dedicated lane for buses unless they jump over on the shoulder and run over the folks walking to the airport that have abandoned their drivers along the way. I wish these same state legislators were the ones missing their flights and walking their hinny's to the airport.

[Bos2Nash]

4 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

The other problem with a park and ride station downtown taking folks to the airport is they are stuck in the same traffic everyone else is as the state will not allow a dedicated lane for buses unless they jump over on the shoulder and run over the folks walking to the airport that have abandoned their drivers along the way. I wish these same state legislators were the ones missing their flights and walking their hinny's to the airport.

Park and Ride doesn't necessarily mean dedicated lanes. WeGo should absolutely get a dedicated lane on surface streets, but putting in a dedicated lane for a bus to only the airport - especially on the interstate - is not a good idea. The Logan Express precedent used above does not have dedicated lanes either. 

The intent of a Park and Ride specifically for the airport isn't a speed thing, but rather less single occupant vehicles on the road going to a dedicated location. Using the image below (this has been recycled over and over) we can see just how much space cars vs buses take up. 

Plus, the airport brings in a significant amount of money from parking cars and rational thought says that parking at the airport will never be zero. Some of that money could go to subsidizing a coach style express bus that brings folks in from further out cities/towns to make it a preferable choice to paying for ride share.

[smeagolsfree]

How would you suggest an EXPRESS bus get into BNA and bypass all the traffic if not on the interstate? That is what we are talking about.

[Luvemtall]

Using the above ratio example, they can effectively move 500 people in 10 busses compared to the same 500 people in 330 cars . I think the 10 buses would definitely take less space than 330 cars, thus reducing the traffic on the interstate.

Run those buses on a regular 15-20 minute headway and in one hour you’ll eliminate upwards of 1000-1200 cars for the same 10 routes those buses run

[Bos2Nash]

I wouldn't use "Express" so literally as converting to straight speed. Express can also be limited stops, which in turns saves time making it an express bus. If we had an express coach bus system from the cities mentioned above, they would pick people up in those cities (at essentially park and ride stations) and not stop anywhere other than the airport. That is an Express bus by nature. I tried to say this in the chat last meeting, but we should not even consider paying for dedicated lanes that exclusively serve the airport. If we are to pay for dedicated lanes, it should be serving residents and the airport is a bonus of that. Even if the airport does want to pay for such lanes, dedicated lanes on Metro Nashvile ROW (whether run by the state or not) should be serving residents along those dedicated lanes.

As Luvemtall outlined, removing single cars from the airport relives traffic helping make the case for the bus even more. 15-20 minute intervals don't really make sense (to me) when talking about outlying cities, but that is why I mentioned coordinating with WeGo for buses to downtown so that there is a bus every 15 minutes for downtown. 

[Luvemtall]

Yes, I meant to say 15-20 minutes for a central hub. Outlining cities would be ok with every hour or so. And if they can ever smarten up and put the systems in place to actually make the Star a true commuter train and hub it with the buses, that would be a huge improvement.

These are all relatively simple and cost effective ways to help reduce the stress on our roadways and introduce mass transit to the area. Small steps , but effective and no where near to the cost like Mayor Barry’s plan of years past

[BnaBreaker]

Witnessing this mess makes me realize how lucky I am that both of Chicago's airports are serviced by CTA lines that run directly into the terminal in both airports.  I don't think I've driven to the airport here in years, unless it was to pick up a visiting guest.  The timing is predictable, you don't have to worry about getting stuck in traffic, you don't have to pay for parking or a taxi/rideshare, or bother someone else for a ride.  And as a result of all of this, I find my pre-flight stress and anxiety levels are greatly reduced too.  As long as I leave my house at a reasonable time, I KNOW I will make my flight, and instead of white knuckling it in heavy traffic all the way to the airport, hoping you won't encounter some stoppage that endangers your trip, you can just kind of relax and read a book or whatever.  I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Sean blackdog]

Today this evening from Facebook BNA. 
 

Spotify Wrapped... BNA's Version. 

Ready for you, 2024!

[Sean blackdog]

Wednesday afternoon from Facebook BNA. 
 

Today, we had the pleasure of giving our MNAA Board of Commissioners a behind-the-scenes tour of the beautiful on-site Hilton BNA hotel! Opening soon... stay tuned for updates.

 

 

[MLBrumby]

The most noteworthy thing in those pics is that "The Hole" is now filled in and capped with concrete!  

Edited December 15, 2023 by MLBrumby

[MLBrumby]

Maybe this is due to the construction (or maybe not), but MarketWatch.com did an analysis of major airports. Not surprisingly, BNA didn't fare well. It's not intended to be a hub. 

From online Tennessean... 

MarketWatch Guides recently analyzed data across nearly 20 metrics to determine which major U.S. airports are best for layovers whether you’re a frequent flier or traveling with family.

10 Worst airports for layovers

• Orlando International Airport
• Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport
• Midway International Airport
• O'Hare International Airport
• Newark Liberty International Airport
• San Francisco International Airport
• San Diego International Airport
• Nashville International Airport
• Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport
• Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport

From the Tennessean online:  https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2023/12/08/how-nashville-airport-ranks-among-other-us-airports-for-layovers/71837686007/

[NashRugger]

But BNA was previously a hub, so there's that. You have SWA literally building BNA into a hub (yes I know they call them "focus cities").

It's just another list with rather vague reasoning for the rankings. DFW being on their is kind of a head-scratcher given they're usually rated pretty well for connections, particularly given the food options across 5 terminals.

[Luvemtall]

15 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

Maybe this is due to the construction (or maybe not), but MarketWatch.com did an analysis of major airports. Not surprisingly, BNA didn't fare well. It's not intended to be a hub.

Well, I’m not feeling that bad about this. BNA is still in its transformation stage and looking at those others on that list, at least BNA is in good company ! Those are some mighty big names, all intending to be the national “Hubs” including the Busiest ATL . So, take it as another example of people who have nothing better to do, than think up some crazy “list” 

[smeagolsfree]

Let's just say BNA is having growing pains! I think that is more on track than anything right now. The more they build the more traffic seems to come and the more they handle. That goes for the auto traffic coming into the facility as well. That was not well thought-out as the interstate and traffic improvements into BNA should have been done 20 plus years ago as it has always been a problem. TDOT & NDOT seem to be 10 to 20 years behind and 100million dollars short on everything they do. Maybe the transit referendum will have a fix of some sort to help there.

There needs to be a second terminal which is in the works which again is part of the plan but again what I call growing pains. 

[Nash_12South]

If they just built bicycle lanes to the airport that would solve the problems. 

[glamdring269]

Heading to Vegas on Thursday. Might be the first time in my life I'm glad to be on a 530am flight. If I'm dealing with airport congestion at 4am we're in a lot more trouble than I realized.

[Nash_12South]

4 minutes ago, glamdring269 said:

Heading to Vegas on Thursday. Might be the first time in my life I'm glad to be on a 530am flight. If I'm dealing with airport congestion at 4am we're in a lot more trouble than I realized.

For what it's worth - I flew out last Tuesday morning, getting to the airport at 5am and had no issues. My Uber driver said he sees most issues on Sundays/Mondays. A coworker flew out last Thursday morning with no issues as well. 

[Sean blackdog]

Today this morning from Facebook BNA. 
 

New week, new adventures!