Nashville International Airport Development thread

[markhollin]

Nashville Mayor Freddie O'Connell went to Nashville International Airport on Sunday morning not for a flight, but because of a fight.

O'Connell headed to the rapidly expanding airport at the invitation of CEO Doug Kreulen. The two held their first sit-down meeting in O'Connell's six weeks in office, joined by their lawyers in the board room of the Metro Nashville Airport Authority.

The Nov. 5 discussion came just days after judges overturned a state law that had installed a state-created board to oversee the airport, ousting the all-Metro board that had been in charge.

The unanimous 3-0 court ruling restored the Metro board to power. That group had arranged a special-called board meeting for the following day, Nov. 6.

The best part of the hourlong meeting, Kreulen said, was being able to establish a direct connection with the mayor. Kreulen called it a "very constructive session," in comments made to the newly reinstated board at its meeting.

"It's hard to keep up with rumors, so being able to sit there and talk with the mayor was awesome," Kreulen said in an interview. "It allowed two non-lawyers to talk, with our lawyers sitting there, and they had to agree that we had the lead. It allowed the mayor and I to talk about his vision for the future, and I want to be part of that vision, building this airport for Nashville."

"He doesn't want any drama," Kreulen said of O'Connell. "I don't need the drama. This has taken 11 months of my life, to this point, and I would prefer just to work on running and building the airport. … My takeaway is, he wants me to get back to running the airport and not worrying about all of this, and he wants to find a pathway forward to improve the relationship with the state."

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2023/11/07/nashville-airport-ceo-mayor-board-meeting.html

[Sean blackdog]

Update from BNA. 

 

October 2023. 
2,211,498 passengers new records. 

[Nathan_in_DC]

Serious question: at which point does the airport stop trying to attract more flights because of overcrowding? The last few times I've been it's been busy, but not insane. I love to see the additional numbers, but I don't want to see it turn into another overcrowded cattle chute like Charlotte (which, in my opinion, is the worst hub airport in the US, largely due to its overcrowding).

[MLBrumby]

I think I read recently that the current expansions ( with concourse A and D expansions) will be good till around 2040 (40 million pax??), at which point MNAA plans to have new terminal across Donelson pike to complement it. I haven’t seen what the capacity would be at that point. 

[nashscan]

I saw on Reddit that there was disorder loading the buses at the satellite terminal.   No one from MNAA facilitating an enforced line.  

[markhollin]

Airport Hilton (14 stories, 292 rooms, restaurants, internal garage) update.

Looking NE from Terminal Drive:

[Nathan_in_DC]

On 11/18/2023 at 9:51 AM, nashscan said:

I saw on Reddit that there was disorder loading the buses at the satellite terminal.   No one from MNAA facilitating an enforced line.  

That's not shocking at all. The decision to go cheap and rely on shuttle busses instead of a higher capacity and higher throughput rate people mover was a big mistake. If two Spirit A321s arrive concurrently that's up to 456 passengers trying to jostle for max 40 spots on a bus, potentially less, meaning more than 11 busses worth of passengers could be trying to queue within just a few minutes. If the queues aren't properly designed to accommodate that many people, and staffed to ensure people are abiding by the queue rules, then it will quickly descend into chaos. 

EDIT: I just noticed that the headways are 3 minutes. That means that in the aforementioned scenario of two fully loaded A321s arriving at about the same time, you could realistically be waiting 20 to 30 minutes just to get on a bus to get back to the main terminal. Admittedly this is going to be relieved somewhat by people stopping to use the restroom and the fact that it can take up to 20 minutes to offload a full airplane, but it still could mean long wait times that people really just don't want to deal with after a flight.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Nathan_in_DC

[Sean blackdog]

Yesterday evening.  
 

BNA Vision Plan 

International Arrivals Facility and Hilton Hotel. 
British Airways Boeing 787-9. 
 

[Bos2Nash]

On 11/20/2023 at 10:52 AM, Nathan_in_DC said:

That's not shocking at all. The decision to go cheap and rely on shuttle busses instead of a higher capacity and higher throughput rate people mover was a big mistake. If two Spirit A321s arrive concurrently that's up to 456 passengers trying to jostle for max 40 spots on a bus, potentially less, meaning more than 11 busses worth of passengers could be trying to queue within just a few minutes. If the queues aren't properly designed to accommodate that many people, and staffed to ensure people are abiding by the queue rules, then it will quickly descend into chaos. 

EDIT: I just noticed that the headways are 3 minutes. That means that in the aforementioned scenario of two fully loaded A321s arriving at about the same time, you could realistically be waiting 20 to 30 minutes just to get on a bus to get back to the main terminal. Admittedly this is going to be relieved somewhat by people stopping to use the restroom and the fact that it can take up to 20 minutes to offload a full airplane, but it still could mean long wait times that people really just don't want to deal with after a flight.

Ultimately it is a nice "want" to have an automatic people mover (whether that is a train/vehicle or elevated/subterranean walkway) to connect back to the main terminal, this is the life of ultra low budget carriers. We cannot expect the all of the "wants" to service those airlines. The buses are functioning on 3-minute headways, which is very impressive. 

Absolutely agree though that BNA does need to do their job in staffing the queue, or setting up the queue in order for bus boarding to go smoothly.

[GregH]

I flew out of the shuttle terminal for my thanksgiving travel. They did have staff wrangling the crowds for the shuttles when I went through. However, the whole shuttle aspect is pretty annoying and introduces another unpredictable timing aspect to travel. I'll probably think twice now about using the budget carriers if they're all flying out of there.

[markhollin]

Nashville Airport attempts to address miserable traffic issues:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2023/11/29/what-nashville-airport-is-doing-to-fix-miserable-holiday-traffic/71729348007/

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2023/11/30/nashville-airport-bna-traffic-problem.html

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/airport-state-working-to-alleviate-traffic-woes/article_d0ed45e2-8fcb-11ee-81a6-9322e55ccfc4.html

[Nathan_in_DC]

41 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Nashville Airport attempts to address miserable traffic issues:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2023/11/29/what-nashville-airport-is-doing-to-fix-miserable-holiday-traffic/71729348007/

This is absolutely infuriating! They're willing to spend billions on doing anything BUT providing alternatives to driving to the airport. Of all their grand plans, they aren't even considering doing anything other than more of the same: add lanes to handle more cars.

 

They could work with WeGo to get 15-minute headway express busses downtown with service starting in months, not years, if they actually wanted to. But nope, the whole airport and city leadership appear to just have their heads up their rear ends, that or they are only interested in making more cash through parking fees.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Nathan_in_DC

[smeagolsfree]

1 hour ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

This is absolutely infuriating! They're willing to spend billions on doing anything BUT providing alternatives to driving to the airport. Of all their grand plans, they aren't even considering doing anything other than more of the same: add lanes to handle more cars.

 

They could work with WeGo to get 15-minute headway express busses downtown with service starting in months, not years, if they actually wanted to. But nope, the whole airport and city leadership appear to just have their heads up their rear ends, that or they are only interested in making more cash through parking fees.

That would be just too easy! Besides They didn't think of it. A nice park & ride station somewhere downtown or at the convention center.

[Rick Dalton]

I'm not sure there's an easy solution. The entryway to the airport is just too small for how big the airport has become. There need to be multiple entries and egresses but that's a long term deal. Busses could help, but people don't like riding busses. 

[Melrose]

"New electronic overhead roadway signs are also planned to improve communication with drivers about the best terminal routes in real-time."

Looking forward to the very helpful message "Sorry bud, try walking from here."

These updated roadway signs that TDOT keeps peddling not as information, but as somehow a solution is so stupid.... 

[MLBrumby]

28 minutes ago, Melrose said:

"New electronic overhead roadway signs are also planned to improve communication with drivers about the best terminal routes in real-time."

Looking forward to the very helpful message "Sorry bud, try walking from here."

These updated roadway signs that TDOT keeps peddling not as information, but as somehow a solution is so stupid.... 

I-24 between M'boro and Nashville lowers head in shame!

[Melrose]

15 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

I-24 between M'boro and Nashville lowers head in shame!

LOL, don't want to come down hard on 1-24!  Just the distinction between how TDOT is treating this signage as a transit/traffic solution rather than a perfectly nice informational upgrade. ...

[Nash_12South]

I think the reality is that there are no quick fixes or even decent short term fixes. From my experiences, it's dropping off departing passengers that's creating most of the issues. Having one central screening point may not have been best - long term. Every departing passenger expects to be dropped off at the "front door" and no one seems capable of getting out of an Uber, with their bags, in less than 5 minutes....

[Luvemtall]

1 hour ago, Melrose said:

LOL, don't want to come down hard on 1-24!  Just the distinction between how TDOT is treating this signage as a transit/traffic solution rather than a perfectly nice informational upgrade. ...

Yep, you can’t have a “SMART “ highway without smart people. TDOT is an embarrassment!! 

[GregH]

Yeah I don't think there's any easy answer, people just want to drive / be driven to/from the airport so more passenger volume is going to mean more cars and a transit linkage wouldn't be sufficiently used because outside of narrow slice of passengers going directly downtown people will correctly recognize that even having to sit in traffic is faster than first taking a bus to somewhere you don't want to go.

 

Actually I think a good simple rule for thinking about traffic in general is that the level of traffic in any given period going forward is as low as it will ever be barring another Very Bad event like a pandemic or economic collapse. It can only get worse. Hundreds of thousands of people affirm every day that they are OK with the current level and any increase in capacity will be balanced out by induced demand. The only way to win is not to play (by building non-car transport with it's own ROW or changing your individual driving habits or whatever).

[CenterHill]

"Airport leaders have hired a traffic analysis firm to evaluate opportunities to improve the ramp at I-40 exit 216A."

A little late to think of that.   

I still think the elimination of the on-site cell waiting lot is a BIG part of the current congestion problem.  I was at the airport picking up and dropping off passengers over Thanksgiving weekend and saw people improvising left and right.   Parking on the shoulders of Donelson Pike or just pulling over on the I-40 and Donelson Pike entrance ramps or anywhere they could find, all of which slows down traffic flow.   Plus there are people who just circle the interior loop repeatedly until their passenger is ready for pickup.   Making the first 30 minutes in short term parking free may help with this - IF there are designated spaces.   The garages stay at capacity most of the time.    That essentially would turn the short term garages into cell waiting - if MNAA is able to get the message out that it's available.    Other than that, I don't know what the answer is.   Sounds like MNAA doesn't either.    

[NashRugger]

Until they ultimately make the east side entrance/exit with Donelson better once TDOT gets their end of the VERY delayed project, it's not going to get better with a singular ring road at the airport. Austin has the same issue but they literally have a SINGLE in/out of the airport (Highway 71) and of course the infamous LAX terminal loop. Using Donelson from Murfreesboro Pike has saved a significant amount of wait times for myself and others I know versus using the I-40 or Donelson from the north. 

They can throw $$$ to fix the road all day, but I think it's more or less people wanting direct curbside pickup/dropoff versus even reasonably trying to walk 2-5 minutes if that was an option. I've paid a short-term garage fee for 20 minutes to pick someone up versus use what was a completely full former cell lot and was out with ease versus idiots just driving in circles. I honestly think there will be no perfect fix for this situation outside of adding 2 more lanes and extending the covered gantry for arrivals/departures. 

A centralized security checkpoint is actually a far and away better configuration than what was a split before. Even if it was the way it used to be, that would have zero impact on the congestion on the road. 

[MidTenn1]

4 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

I-24 between M'boro and Nashville lowers head in shame!

 

3 hours ago, Melrose said:

LOL, don't want to come down hard on 1-24!  Just the distinction between how TDOT is treating this signage as a transit/traffic solution rather than a perfectly nice informational upgrade. ...

 

2 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Yep, you can’t have a “SMART “ highway without smart people. TDOT is an embarrassment!! 

It's not finished yet.   

 

And there's this.

And yeah, I understand.  Junior High Science class was so, so hard!!!

"Opinions are like arm pits, everybody has two of them."  Awaiting the other armpits.

[PruneTracy]

7 hours ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

They could work with WeGo to get 15-minute headway express busses downtown with service starting in months, not years, if they actually wanted to. But nope, the whole airport and city leadership appear to just have their heads up their rear ends, that or they are only interested in making more cash through parking fees.

https://www.wegotransit.com/ride/maps-schedules/bus/18-airport/

 

[Luvemtall]

MidTenn you might have worked for them but you yourself are not TDOT,  So don’t take it personally.   And combine AI with autonomous vehicles, I’m sure we can all tell you how that’s going to turn out. Wait for it.. I-24 in Antioch Tennessee site of the world’s largest pile up, can read them headlines now. I’m sorry for being so harsh, but after 42 years of commercial driving and millions of miles under my belt I’ve seen and heard it all. Yes I’m sure there’s some great minds that work for TDOT, but it’s the politics of this state that’s making a mockery of the division. You might have great ideas and credentials, but the BillyBob from a BFE county no one even knows about , that sits in the legislature voting on projects don’t. Tennessee has some of the worst roads I’ve driven on, and is behind its growth by decades when it comes to infrastructure. Mostly due to the insane pay as you go idea, yeah it keeps taxes low but sometimes the safety of its citizens is worth a few more dollars