210 Trade | EpiCentre

[Madison Parkitect]

10 minutes ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

I was recently in Seattle and the Pacific Place reminded me of the Epicentre a little bit (design).  Although theirs is enclosed, it has a similar open-air, multistory retail destination.  No clubs, not too many bars, but rather shopping retail and restaurants.  This is probably a similar vision the Epicentre's owners would like to emulate.  Anchored by a Barnes & Nobles, shops that include Francesca's, Victoria's Secret, Kate Spade, J Crew, Michael Kors, JNBY to name a few.  An AMC Theaters up top.  Just a very cool place downtown and something I wish the Epicentre could become someday.  Let's hope changes come sooner rather than later. 

Yeah, this is definitely the best-case scenario for the EpiCentre. Pacific Place is never super-busy but the stores there are decent and they've got a couple good restaurants. It's not a destination in and of itself but it's another good example of Seattle's downtown retail.

[Guest]

I was recently in Seattle and the Pacific Place reminded me of the Epicentre a little bit (design).  Although theirs is enclosed, it has a similar open-air, multistory retail destination.  No clubs, not too many bars, but rather shopping retail and restaurants.  This is probably a similar vision the Epicentre's owners would like to emulate.  Anchored by a Barnes & Nobles, shops that include Francesca's, Victoria's Secret, Kate Spade, J Crew, Michael Kors, JNBY to name a few.  An AMC Theaters up top.  Just a very cool place downtown and something I wish the Epicentre could become someday.  Let's hope changes come sooner rather than later. 

I haven’t seen an indication that that is the Epicentre owners vision. If anything their silence towards rumors stoked by Fox Charlotte and other local TV news stations speaks volumes.


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[QClifer]

Until they move the bus center/hangout joint they are always gonna have kids loiter, steal from stores if any come, and just make the general public uncomfortable gong in the epicenter.   Everybody I see passes the bus center on the opposite side of the street if they need to go by  it. 

My days of going to the epictre are over bc I’m 35 now but I feel like the only people that have been going to the epicenter the last couple years are people from the burbs and bachelorette parties looking to come to the big city for fun.   I Don’t know anybody who lives in town and regularly goes out ever go to the epicenter anymore. 

[nakers2]

Certainly wasn't my first visit to Asheville, but I went today and took note of what I saw, it will be incredibly hard to recreate the streetscape there naturally, but a muti-block spread of bars, restaurants, art galleries, shops, with some parks and limited surface lots made for a great evening with my brother. I think Uptown is doing a good job at recreating a natural cityscape when it comes to the spread of entertainment, nightlife, and some burgeoning retail. My brother put it well, he asked me if it would be possible for someone to live their day to day life in Uptown, assuming they worked there, and the answer is generally yes, but it's not an obvious yes, I think the Epicenter becoming more of a retail hub, with some bars and restaurants still sprinkled in, would make Uptown truly a more livable area, and as much as I wish to discourage unregulated car traffic into Uptown, despite often driving there myself, I believe offering validated parking (with reasonable limits like the Whole Foods at Stonewall, or the Harris Teeter) will help to thin the crowd of degenerates who have tainted what was a promising venture at one point. 

[1020AM]

Some of you guys love blaming EVERYTHING on the evil transportation center. We understand what you really mean though. 

Just moved back to town after being gone most of the last 14 years.  Walked to CVS in the Epicenter and totally fine. Decided that i wanted some Bojangles and guess where I went GASP, the transportation center location. I wasn't harassed or even talked to lol. Just say you don't like black people. be honest with yourself. 

Everybody I see passes the bus center on the opposite side of the street if they need to go by  it.  LMAO,  you guys fear people that are unlike you so much.  

I love development and have  been lurking on here for well over decade but rarely comment  because i don't feel i belong. To see the closeted bigots on here is disgusting. the sad part is most of you don't even realize it.  

 

[225x704]

Hi everyone, new here - sort of. Been lurking on UP for about 6 years but never join in on the conversations but I'm compelled to comment on this topic. 

I kind of agree with @1020AM on their sentiments around this recent topic but I'm not going to say people are bigots cause that's not fair but you should all be aware of the optics of this conversation. From the outside looking in, it appears to be thinly vailed racism. When you use words like GHETTO and blaming the rise in crime on the transit center - it's like you are targeting a particular demographic group for the cause of crime.

I think everyones' concerns about the crime at the EpiCentre are valid but some of the comments are concerning. I've lived in Charlotte for 5 years, been living in ATL for the past year, but moving back next Saturday to my home in NoDa and what I've seen/heard going on at the EpiCentre seems to be what are the typical negatives of entertainment venues like that in larger cities.

Most of the time, the EpiCentre is fine. I go to the movies there, and I use to workout at Golds and I never had any problems. Working in Uptown - I would walk pass the transit center all the time and was never bothered. I've actually had more issues on Tryon Street and parks over the transit center and Epi. 

I think this all comes down to security, increase security and this will be solved. Someone earlier made a comparison to Bourbon Street in Nola and I would agree with that. I'm from Nola and it's a mess. Growing up in New Orleans you were taught to be careful on Bourbon. Despite its historic significance - there really isn't anything, besides the buildings, historic about  Bourbon, it's just a collection of bars. Yes, its in the French Quarter, and there is historic significance but still just a collection of bars.

People have been shot, stabbed, robbed and raped on that street but it never stops people from goin. I believe despite it all, people feel safe because of amplified security. You see the cops on horses dragging anyone who causes problems out. So the Epi center, to me, seems to have  a security issue to support its current retail mix. 

The issues could also be a culture clash. Epi is draw for a lot of people from different neighborhoods and they have different values and when you put them together, mixed with drugs and alcohol things are for sure going to go down. An argument over someone stepping on your shoe and not saying 'excuse me' can go from zero to 100 and the outcome could be someone gets in a fight, or stabbed especially if people are intoxicated.

Me having lived in New York, Atlanta, San Fran, and Chicago - in my opinion the crimes that happen at the EpiCentre and in Uptown for that matter are minor in comparison. Yes, Charlotte is a smaller city in comparison but Charlotte isn't really a small town anymore, it's growing at a rapid clip and these are some of it's growing pains. 

Same concerns about crime at Northlake Mall was discussed a few years ago and the sky was falling then too, but the mall seems to be doing just fine and attracting people despite its pass issues with crime. Again, the concerns about crime are valid but it has more to do with a bunch of people from different walks of life in an enclosed space drinking trying have a good time and incidents sometimes happen. I just don't think it's fair to put it on the transit center when most issues happen at night when the center is barely operating. I think it's a security issue.  My long winded 2 cents. 

 

[CLTranspo]

@1020AM and @225x704 thank you for your comments. I always cringe when people refer to the transit center and other locations that way - it definitely lets on more about their thoughts and biases than they may realize.  Everyone deserves access to uptown's amenities whether they arrive by car, bus, or train. Trying to remove or reduce a group or collection of people does not solve the underlying problem. 

[Hornets]

1020,  225, and Clttranspro, if I could like your post a 1000 times, I would.  Ppl true colors are coming out on this one.  Just go ahead, stop the charade, and just say what graphic, you feel is responsible, for the crime wave at the Epic Center.  You've certainly thrown enough hints, that's for sure!

Edited November 30, 2019 by Hornets

[nicholas]

9 hours ago, 1020AM said:

Some of you guys love blaming EVERYTHING on the evil transportation center. We understand what you really mean though. 

Just moved back to town after being gone most of the last 14 years.  Walked to CVS in the Epicenter and totally fine. Decided that i wanted some Bojangles and guess where I went GASP, the transportation center location. I wasn't harassed or even talked to lol. Just say you don't like black people. be honest with yourself. 

Everybody I see passes the bus center on the opposite side of the street if they need to go by  it.  LMAO,  you guys fear people that are unlike you so much.  

I love development and have  been lurking on here for well over decade but rarely comment  because i don't feel i belong. To see the closeted bigots on here is disgusting. the sad part is most of you don't even realize it. 

Great job pushing the racial agenda forwards.  There is a reason that some people are uncomfortable around the Epicentre and transportation center, and if you bothered to read through the thread and check out some of the articles that have been linked, you would see why.

"Holaday’s murder was one of at least 18 reported Epicentre crimes since 2017 that involved a gun, data show.  Across the street, the Charlotte Transportation Center reported 22 crimes involving a gun. Only the airport had more – and most of them were nonviolent weapons law violations."

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article237668974.html

Are people going to be drawn to a block where at least 40 crimes involving guns have been committed in the past two years??? 

[Dale]

On 11/29/2019 at 2:55 PM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I haven’t seen an indication that that is the Epicentre owners vision. If anything their silence towards rumors stoked by Fox Charlotte and other local TV news stations speaks volumes.


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Meaning that the rumors might be dead-on ?

[Durhamite]

15 hours ago, nicholas said:

Great job pushing the racial agenda forwards.  There is a reason that some people are uncomfortable around the Epicentre and transportation center, and if you bothered to read through the thread and check out some of the articles that have been linked, you would see why.

"Holaday’s murder was one of at least 18 reported Epicentre crimes since 2017 that involved a gun, data show.  Across the street, the Charlotte Transportation Center reported 22 crimes involving a gun. Only the airport had more – and most of them were nonviolent weapons law violations."

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article237668974.html

Are people going to be drawn to a block where at least 40 crimes involving guns have been committed in the past two years??? 

People who aren't afraid of a very Diverse city aren't crossing the street because the bus transit has a lot of Black people...lol.  Stop framing it as though these sorts of incidents are exclusive to Charlotte.  Charlotte ain't this quaint little ole Huckleberry town anymore.  Just last night in New Orleans:

Last night on  Canal St:

https://www.wdsu.com/article/nopd-at-least-10-people-shot-along-canal-street/30064186

Maybe they should shut down Canal St.  In a REAL urban city, this stuff is status quo, especially in entertainment districts/areas.   Either get over your fear or do something else with your time....welcome to the big leagues.   The stats don't bear out this unwarranted fear as thousands of people frequent the Epi each week without incident.  

Here's how a sunbelt city used to dealing with entertainment address the issue:

https://www.wkrn.com/news/crime-tracker/violent-crime-on-the-rise-in-downtown-nashville/

 

 

 

 

 

[joenc]

7 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

People who aren't afraid of a very Diverse city aren't crossing the street because the bus transit has a lot of Black people...lol.  Stop framing it as though these sorts of incidents are exclusive to Charlotte.  Charlotte ain't this quaint little ole Huckleberry town anymore.  Just last night in New Orleans:

Last night on  Canal St:

https://www.wdsu.com/article/nopd-at-least-10-people-shot-along-canal-street/30064186

Maybe they should shut down Canal St.  In a REAL urban city, this stuff is status quo, especially in entertainment districts/areas.   Either get over your fear or do something else with your time....welcome to the big leagues.   The stats don't bear out this unwarranted fear as thousands of people frequent the Epi each week without incident.  

Here's how a sunbelt city used to dealing with entertainment address the issue:

https://www.wkrn.com/news/crime-tracker/violent-crime-on-the-rise-in-downtown-nashville/

 

Canal Street and Epicentre aren't the same thing, even if they both have crime.

[nicholas]

2 hours ago, Durhamite said:

People who aren't afraid of a very Diverse city aren't crossing the street because the bus transit has a lot of Black people...lol.  Stop framing it as though these sorts of incidents are exclusive to Charlotte.  Charlotte ain't this quaint little ole Huckleberry town anymore.  Just last night in New Orleans:

Last night on  Canal St:

https://www.wdsu.com/article/nopd-at-least-10-people-shot-along-canal-street/30064186

Maybe they should shut down Canal St.  In a REAL urban city, this stuff is status quo, especially in entertainment districts/areas.   Either get over your fear or do something else with your time....welcome to the big leagues.   The stats don't bear out this unwarranted fear as thousands of people frequent the Epi each week without incident.  

Here's how a sunbelt city used to dealing with entertainment address the issue:

https://www.wkrn.com/news/crime-tracker/violent-crime-on-the-rise-in-downtown-nashville/

Where have I said that this is exclusive to Charlotte???  There is crime in every city.  I am white and have walked past the transfer center and Epicentre many times without incident.  The only exception I can remember was some drunk/high guy (who was also white) who started asking for money and wanted me to take his picture for some reason (I had my camera with me, but still, odd request).  I've had a lot more issues on Tryon St over the years with people asking me for money, trying to get me to ride around uptown in their car (seriously, wtf), or offering me a "brand new" pair of Jordans for $60.

Not sure I understand the comparison to Canal St.  It is a historic street with a lot of legacy.  The Epicentre and transit center are (relatively speaking) new draws to the area and don't yet carry the same weight as Canal St.

Edited December 1, 2019 by nicholas

[Eightane]

Durhamite, 1020 and others bring up valid points and I hope they don't get shouted down in this discussion. No matter how any of us see the baseline issues, it's bad faith to act like racial tensions, racism and stereotypes don't figure into a great many decisions that affluent people (mostly whites, I say as one myself) make where it concerns other people. I know for a fact that Epicentre is not as busy or vibrant as it COULD be were it not for the fact that a sizeable segment of revelers think of crime, the transit center and the ethnic mix nearby and lump them all together as carelessly and biased as possible. Like I said, I'm white... But my husband is not. So the sooner we recognize and tackle these divides, the better off we'll all be for it.

I will speak on something different however, that's more relevant to tenant mix and what *that* has to do with the state of the Epicentre. A lot have asked for more dry-goods retailers, or just anywhere that isn't about food, drink or entertainment, and not just for this complex but for uptown as a whole. I agree fully, but we should be mindful of something too: Charlotte has had the incredible misfortune of "coming into its own" and reaching critical mass at the exact same time brick-and-mortar retail is being beaten down by online buying. Every month that Uptown gains an office building, or an apartment tower, or any other people-draw, is also a month that more retailers that have walk-in footprints are either folding or drastically scaling back their expansions into markets or new locations.

This is not to say that walk-in dry-goods places can't still thrive, or that we shouldn't be allowed to ask for them. But I see the future as nearly ALL local places that have dedicated customer bases and a lot of luck on their side. National chains and well-known brands are likely entering their last days.

I hope for the best, but I doubt I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[15895]

I used to avoid the sidewalk on Trade near the transit center before they cracked down on loitering (And I used CTC to get to UNCC daily and occasionally South Park. And randomly for Burger King) But for the last few years, it seems like the loitering went away. 
 

(And I too avoided birkdale village for a while on Friday nights because  high schoolers just overran the place and caused trouble too. Including big fights I’ve witnessed.) 

 

I think if people feel unsafe, they should probably follow that instinct. They’re also probably nervous near allies, walking to a parking garage alone, etc. but people get used to areas. Or find solutions. 
 

With that said. Tearing down this place or white-washing it isn’t going to help the situation. Mass transit and other stores and places to eat, etc. that cater to all demographics, not just white collar whites with no kids, is what uptown needs. 
 

You have a divide between demographics. Us vs. them. I don’t think it’s people being prejudice, at all, the city is just set up to keep people divided. Essex, the new places at 300 south trying, BofA plaza renovations etc aren’t going to bring different demographics together

[Desert Power]

I'm jealous of y'all that have not had issues walking past the transit center.  

[Miesian Corners]

RE: Transit Center

I think if CATS did a better job of keeping the TC clean and well-lit, there would be fewer problems. When it first opened, the steel trusses and exhaust stacks were lined in neon, the bays were better lit, and it was kept clean. Now there are broken shards of neon tubing and trash everywhere. It's a proven fact that when buildings are allowed to deteriorate and/or look run down, crime or no crime, the perception is that there is danger. Clean it up, get better lighting, and for god's sake, have it power washed!

[Windsurfer]

22 hours ago, Seabrooke said:

I walk by it all the time with no issue. If you do constantly have problems walking by it, I’d maybe do some self reflection on what kind of vibe you’re putting off when passing it. I’m imagining a fast pace gripping your personal belongings for dear life pretending you have a text message to avoid eye contact and pretending to not hear someone if they say something to you. Try confidence and treating people with respect and as equals, and youll be fine...

Isn't this akin to victim blaming?  

FWIW, I seem to have the same problem. I've recounted a couple of incidents I've had on The Blue Line, and now I can mark yet another incident with a homeless dude in, of all places, Boulder Colorado (on Pearl Street).  Maybe it is my vibe, but my paranoia is only increasing these days, especially since I'm usually walking with my 7 year old.  I hate to turn into a gun carrier, but what's an old man to do ?

[Richhamleigh, DC]

I would argue it's about economics.  Rich people, middle class people, aren't comfortable around poor people, regardless of race.  I mean, look at how people react to poor white areas in say, rural NC or Appalachia.  Talk about gross prejudice, generalizations and stereotyping.  

Edited December 3, 2019 by Phillydog

[southslider]

When the CTC first opened three decades ago, they used to pipe classical music over the sound system. This was also the era of when Mecklenburg cut Arts funding over Angels in America.  And everyone knows the big banks wanted to relocate, uh let's say the buses, off Tryon to a more tucked away location.

[urbanlover568]

Another night in Epicenter

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/crime/cmpd-woman-groped-outside-the-epicentre-while-on-her-way-to-the-light-rail/275-69b24eaa-4f86-495f-96c0-943fcd048fbe

[BullDurhamer]

40 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Another night in Epicenter

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/crime/cmpd-woman-groped-outside-the-epicentre-while-on-her-way-to-the-light-rail/275-69b24eaa-4f86-495f-96c0-943fcd048fbe

if dear leader can grab crotches, i say why not all of us?  he has jesus' blood in him you know?    

[cltbwimob]

4 hours ago, BullDurhamer said:

if dear leader can grab crotches, i say why not all of us?  he has jesus' blood in him you know?    

Congratulations, you used a non political thread to make a political statement, made light of a sexual assault/molestation incident and also managed to offend those who subscribe to Christianity.  What a disgusting comment-has to be one of the worst I’ve ever seen to grace urban planet.  Please keep this kind of crap to yourself.

Edited January 4, 2020 by cltbwimob

[urbanlover568]

8 hours ago, BullDurhamer said:

if dear leader can grab crotches, i say why not all of us?  he has jesus' blood in him you know?    

What do you mean? 

[lit]

Seems inappropriate...