210 Trade | EpiCentre

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

I don't know.

Even a few weekends ago, some of my friends from UNCC had a Swedish girl come visit (she's an intern somewhere in Raleigh) and they took her to the Epicenter and just raved how it was like "Paris" (They never been to France FYI) and they just thought the epicenter was the crown jewel. And the Epicenter is pretty much, the place of Uptown. Then after people have been there done that, then they branch out to a couple other places and act like epicenter is for newbs or whatever.

 

But seriously. Take out epicenter. You have a block near 7th street market. And a couple places ringing Romare. Walk down Tryon Street at 9PM. How many places are open. Rock Bottom? Capitol Grille? Ruth Chris? Chimas? Duckworths?  Did I miss anything? Walk down College Street. Pretty nice, more things and it seems more cosmopolitan and the Epicenter is cool.  Romare park, pretty cool. Ink & Ivy, some places at Latta Arcade, 7-11, Mellow Mushroom and a couple other chain places.

 

I'm a big fan of epicenter, what it contributes and would hate for it to be destroyed, removed or taken away. It's really a crown jewel for uptown. There's needs to be more than 1 block at 7th street and a few places around Romare. I'm not too cool for epicenter (despite my preferences for Lucky's and a few other places around uptown)

Rock Bottom closed a while ago. 

You missed a WHOLE lot actually, dozens even.  All the places on and around 5th and Tryon for one. Not to mention, theres going to be a collection of bars, restaurants and a brewery between Ally Center and Legacy Union.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Guest

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Rock Bottom closed a while ago. 

You missed a lot actually. All the places on and around 5th and Tryon for one. Not to mention, theres going to be a collection of bars, restaurants and a brewery between Ally Center and Legacy Union.

I don't think it needs to be "torn down", but it definitely needs new management. The use as a night club hub isn't going to work in its current state. That's not to say it can't function as a host to bars and restuarants, but it needs to not be a "bottle service" nightclub host. The way Buckhead Village in Atlanta moved from nightclub hub to restaurant and bar center could be replicated there. The difficulty will be balancing rents for retail and keeping the quality of establishment high. I wouldn't want to be in charge of that balance.

[Madison Parkitect]

If they can turn the nightclub spaces into something else then I'll retract my statement about it being torn down. During weekday lunches it's fairly busy with people grabbing a bite, but there are large spaces that are currently or will be empty. Beyond that, the building itself is not in great shape and is already a dated kind of architecture. I'm glad I'm not the owner, there are multiple big problems with that place that need to be solved to make it viable.

[JorgiPorgi]

Uptown is much more than it used to be- without Epicenter. I think the format of Epicenter needs to be drastically changed. If I find myself at a restaurant or even a bar uptown, I guarantee you it’s not at the epicenter. Uptown still has some ways to go, but whoever suggested it closes down at 5pm and is basically an office park  does not have an accurate depiction of the reality of what Uptown is now. 

[J-Rob]

5 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

If they can turn the nightclub spaces into something else then I'll retract my statement about it being torn down. During weekday lunches it's fairly busy with people grabbing a bite, but there are large spaces that are currently or will be empty. Beyond that, the building itself is not in great shape and is already a dated kind of architecture. I'm glad I'm not the owner, there are multiple big problems with that place that need to be solved to make it viable.

Just because I am kind of confused about the "tear it down" comments, can someone clarify what they mean?  There are two hotels built on top of the epicenter that aren't going anywhere,  so are the "tear it down" comments related to building facing Trade & College?  If that building were replaced, it would have to be in a similar footprint so as not to block access to the retail below the two hotels.

Edited November 15, 2019 by J-Rob

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, JorgiPorgi said:

Uptown is much more than it used to be- without Epicenter. I think the format of Epicenter needs to be drastically changed. If I find myself at a restaurant or even a bar uptown, I guarantee you it’s not at the epicenter. Uptown still has some ways to go, but whoever suggested it closes down at 5pm and is basically an office park  does not have an accurate depiction of the reality of what Uptown is now. 

Rock Bottom? Capitol Grille? Ruth Chris? Chimas? Duckworths?

Halcyon
Bernardin's
La Belle Helene
Latta Arcade's options
M&S
Vapiano
Essex
Prohibition
204 North
SIP
Ri-Ra
Malabar
Wooden Vine
Asbury
Sydney's
Stoke

add in 5th
The Local
Connellys 
Sea Level
Cowbell
5 Church
Sophia's
Roxbury
Dandelion

What am I forgetting?

Not to mention Crescent just filed a UMUD at 101 Independence Center, and they plan on wholesale reimagining the retail space there. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Guest

[15895]

25 minutes ago, JorgiPorgi said:

Uptown is much more than it used to be- without Epicenter. I think the format of Epicenter needs to be drastically changed. If I find myself at a restaurant or even a bar uptown, I guarantee you it’s not at the epicenter. Uptown still has some ways to go, but whoever suggested it closes down at 5pm and is basically an office park  does not have an accurate depiction of the reality of what Uptown is now. 

without epicenter,  uptown would be significantly less interesting and exciting. Significantly so. I think. 

5th and tryon and 7th and College are much more enjoyable to me with the presence and energy of epicenter nearby. Those big lights, all the people, movie signs, taxis, etc. 

I’m just very pro-epicenter. I think the significance for uptown is still yuge and I think contributes to more mass of people coming into a city that breathes more energy into the couple little areas near it on north tryon and is a destination. The only other destination is Romare Park. So far IMO. 

Dandelion, prohibition, Luckys aren’t destination areas enough like epicenter. I like them in addition to epicenter. I hope Legacy can be a destination like Epicenter. There’s been no confirmed information that shows it will be.  Epicenter for me is a beat and pulse that adds to my night to places like Luckys 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by AirNostrumMAD

[turbocraig]

3 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

If epicenter is torn down in 10-years, uptown will again be nothing but bank lobby’s and shut down at 5pm.  
 

epicenter supports retail in all of uptown. It’s a destination. Without it, uptown is not a destination - it’s an office park. Epicenter is popular. And it draws people uptown which leads to support for other businesses. 

Speaking from my own experience, I live in 4W and when we go out downtown, we avoid Epicenter like the plague.  Not only is it dirty, sticky (literally) and always seems to feel like something’s about to go down, but there’s not a lot there that isn’t better represented elsewhere within a few blocks.  The bars and restaurants on Tryon/5th are better suited to us and MAYBE when we get a Groupon we’ll take advantage of SMG, although probably no longer after the incidents of the past couple of months.  I haven’t been to the bowling alley in years, so I’m not sure how big a draw that still is.  Maybe people from out of town that don’t know better like that place (because, 'Lights!'), but it seems to me anytime someone local mentions Epicenter, it’s usually followed by a “yeesh... no thanks”.

Edited November 15, 2019 by turbocraig

[Zeitgeist_4131]

9 minutes ago, turbocraig said:

Speaking from my own experience, I live in 4W and when we go out downtown, we avoid Epicenter like the plague.  Not only is it dirty, sticky (literally) and always seems to feel like something’s about to go down, but there’s not a lot there that isn’t better represented elsewhere within a few blocks.  The bars and restaurants on Tryon/5th are better suited to us and MAYBE when we get a Groupon we’ll take advantage of SMG, although probably no longer after the incidents of the past couple of months.  I haven’t been to the bowling alley in years, so I’m not sure how big a draw that still is.  Maybe people from out of town that don’t know better like that place, but it seems to me anytime someone local mentions Epicenter, it’s usually followed by a “yeesh... no thanks”.

I agree. It's one of the shabbiest places in uptown. I don't know the investment in upkeep, but it can't be great. If you look at the stairs near Whiskey River, they crumbling. My concern is that it's slowly turning into a blight in the center of the city.

[CLT2014]

Have had a fight break out twice that security had to break up at Epicenter while my wife was with me. She associates ALL of Uptown as unsafe after dark now, rather than just the Epicenter.

"Hey babe want to go to La Belle Helene for dinner."

"No.... I don't want to be looking over my shoulder, have somebody ask for money, or dodge fights."

"It isn't even near Epicenter!"

"I said no."

Case closed, we end up in a different neighborhood despite my protests it could be a nice night out. More reports like this just solidify in her view that the area is unsafe, and I would think it does for other people as well. People have other alternatives / options for going out in Charlotte and a perception of crime doesn't encourage people to stick around / come back after 5PM. I even work Uptown and the talk of the office today is between the Doctor that got shot and killed, the elevator shooting in the AC Hotel, the Omni parking garage shooting, et.... There are even young people in their 20's and 30's chatting around me wishing our office was in South End or even freaking South Park because they feel safer there. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by CLT2014

[Madison Parkitect]

40 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

Just because I am kind of confused about the "tear it down" comments, can someone clarify what they mean?  There are two hotels built on top of the epicenter that aren't going anywhere,  so are the "tear it down" comments related to building facing Trade & College?  If that building were replaced, it would have to be in a similar footprint so as not to block access to the retail below the two hotels.

That's what I mean, yeah. The three-story middle part of the Epicentre. The rest would I guess have to just be renovated because of the hotels above. You could keep the structure and totally change the skin of that part so it looks completely different.

[turbocraig]

3 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Have had a fight break out twice that security had to break up at Epicenter while my wife was with me. She associates ALL of Uptown as unsafe after dark now, rather than just the Epicenter.

"Hey babe want to go to La Belle Helene for dinner."

"No.... I don't want to be looking over my shoulder, have somebody ask for money, or dodge fights."

"It isn't even near Epicenter!"

"I said no."

Case closed, we end up in a different neighborhood despite my protests it could be a nice night out. More reports like this just solidify in her view that the area is unsafe. 

100% this.  There’s a lot of good stuff downtown and rather than Epicenter bolstering that, it’s (very, very quickly) tarnishing the rest of the inner loop by association.  It’s sad. 

[Temeteron]

2 hours ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

I don't know about being torn down, however, I think if anything, this expedites the owners plans to remove the tenants they don't want anymore.  I know for fact they are trying to shift and mold the tenants into a more retail (shops)/food oriented destination, rather than nightclubs.  I don't don't mind the music halls, Tin Roof & Howl at the Moon, but I I can imagine Suite, Vault, & Kandy's days are dwindling down. 

Kandy Bar and Vault have already closed.  The epicenter is not what it used to be and it’s reputation for locals has gone down the toilet.  It’s actually been that way for several years now.  Gone are the glory days (2008-2013)  when Suite, Kazba, Mez, Bubble etc used to be the hotspots of the city.  Even alive after 5 was happening back then.  Epicenter has nothing unique to offer anymore other than a couple of spots.  Enso Sushi, gone, 5 guys gone, Gold’s Gym, gone, bruegger’s gone...  It’s a shame to me as prime of a location it is being next to the Ritz, it is a disgrace as to what tenants are there and the type of crowd that goes there.  Really sad. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Temeteron

[15895]

1 hour ago, turbocraig said:

Speaking from my own experience, I live in 4W and when we go out downtown, we avoid Epicenter like the plague.  Not only is it dirty, sticky (literally) and always seems to feel like something’s about to go down, but there’s not a lot there that isn’t better represented elsewhere within a few blocks.  The bars and restaurants on Tryon/5th are better suited to us and MAYBE when we get a Groupon we’ll take advantage of SMG, although probably no longer after the incidents of the past couple of months.  I haven’t been to the bowling alley in years, so I’m not sure how big a draw that still is.  Maybe people from out of town that don’t know better like that place (because, 'Lights!'), but it seems to me anytime someone local mentions Epicenter, it’s usually followed by a “yeesh... no thanks”.

 

"Maybe people from out of town" . Exactly.  UNCC/CPCC students, people in North Lake, people from Belmont, Gastonia, Elkin, Lake Norman, Concord, Fort Mill, etc. etc. are exactly how you described.  And those are people that uptown needs to be a full and complete place. Not just a sub-segment of urban snobs (which I am one too!). Of course I drag people away from epicenter to Lucky's. Then they start to go to Lucky's without me. And notice things they passed, etc.  

 

I want uptown to cater to the region as a broad place. Not just a Vapianos/Essex type place serving a sub-segment of the region. You sound like a person who would live in 4W.  Which I would be too if I lived in Charlotte. I think outside of the 4W and Essex-type circles, that epicenter is a cool place still.  Anyway, opinions wont change so. And Epicenter will remain popular and at the forefront of uptown nightlife and the cooler kids will rag on it and those scared of downtown violence will always be scared of downtown violence, period.  If I bring people uptown. They are getting epicenter followed by a stroll down to 7th/College, to 5th/Tryon and quickly through the lobbies of Tryon to end the night around Romare. That's my go to strategy for people in uptown. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by AirNostrumMAD

[dylansukkert]

I think the Epicenter is great for the city IF it can be kept safe. I do not regularly visit the epicenter but occasionally will go to Tin Roof or Howl at The Moon with out of town friends after a Hornets game or concert at the arena. I feel like most people that do not live in Charlotte but are in the surrounding areas visit the Epicenter after an arena event because of the proximity to the arena and the number of businesses in that one area. 

[turbocraig]

12 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

"Maybe people from out of town" . Exactly.  UNCC/CPCC students, people in North Lake, people from Belmont, Gastonia, Elkin, Lake Norman, Concord, Fort Mill, etc. etc. are exactly how you described.  And those are people that uptown needs to be a full and complete place. Not just a sub-segment of urban snobs (which I am one too!). Of course I drag people away from epicenter to Lucky's. Then they start to go to Lucky's without me. And notice things they passed, etc.  

 

I want uptown to cater to the region as a broad place. Not just a Vapianos/Essex type place serving a sub-segment of the region. You sound like a person who would live in 4W.  Which I would be too if I lived in Charlotte. I think outside of the 4W and Essex-type circles, that epicenter is a cool place still.  Anyway, opinions wont change so. And Epicenter will remain popular and at the forefront of uptown nightlife and the cooler kids will rag on it and those scared of downtown violence will always be scared of downtown violence, period.  If I bring people uptown. They are getting epicenter followed by a stroll down to 7th/College, to 5th/Tryon and quickly through the lobbies of Tryon to end the night around Romare. That's my go to strategy for people in uptown. 

My viewpoints aren’t meant to portray snobbery or anything else other than we don’t go to Epicenter because it’s grimy, fights break out, and you know, shootings.  I’ll let the reality there speak for itself.  As for  “local” out of towners (UNCC, Gastonia, etc) and their perception of Epicenter, they get the same local news coverage as we uptowners do.  Maybe they think the place is great, and maybe they don’t want to make the trek there based on the news reports we all can see.  That’s for them to decide.   But let’s be honest, public perception of the Epicenter isn’t trending upward.  Believe me, I would love it if it was clean and safe feeling - more nice crap for me to walk to.  It’s just not.  

[KJHburg]

Next door is the Charlotte Transportation Center which has had its own crime problems.  More visible security and less bars and more retail will help.  Parts of the Epicenter like the part at the corner of Trade and College could be torn down and a midrise hotel put up there.  it is perfect site for another hotel with some retail on the ground floor.  Remember Ghazi built this and he has a long reputation of shoddy projects and not paying contractors, then it was bought for pennies on the dollar. 

Spectrum manages  it now so I would bet in the future more changes will happen there.  One thing I can tell you in 5-7 years this place will be changed one way or other in a big way.   

https://www.spectrumcos.com/portfolios/the-epicenter/

https://epicentrenc.com/directory-map/

[Tyrone Wiggum]

25 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Spectrum manages  it now so I would bet in the future more changes will happen there.  One thing I can tell you in 5-7 years this place will be changed one way or other in a big way.   

https://www.spectrumcos.com/portfolios/the-epicenter/

https://epicentrenc.com/directory-map/

From the Directory:

"The Green Room is a live music joint that is traditional [sic] the place for artists to relaz [sic] when they're not on stage"

All class.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Tyrone Wiggum

[urbanlover568]

6 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

If epicenter is torn down in 10-years, uptown will again be nothing but bank lobby’s and shut down at 5pm.  
 

epicenter supports retail in all of uptown. It’s a destination. Without it, uptown is not a destination - it’s an office park. Epicenter is popular. And it draws people uptown which leads to support for other businesses. 

Regardless of crime, this is a destination for tourists and visitors. There was nothing before epicenter that drew tourists of that scale for entertainment. Yes, it's different now with added entertainment options.  I took William Graves, PhD of UNCC class and he said that Epicenter was vital to retain international talent and draw employers and prospects to uptown. People in London didn't want to relocate to a 9-5 city.  Regardless, epicenter transformed uptown. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by mpretori

[Madison Parkitect]

16 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Regardless of crime, this is a destination for tourists and visitors. There was nothing before epicenter that drew tourists of that scale for entertainment. Yes, it's different now with added entertainment options.  I took William Graves, PhD of UNCC class and he said that Epicenter was vital to retain international talent and draw employers and prospects to uptown. People in London didn't want to relocate to a 9-5 city.  Regardless, epicenter transformed uptown. 

The past tense is the key here. A decade ago the Epicentre did transform uptown for the better. Now it's bordering on transforming the area around it for the worse.

[urbanlover568]

5 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

The past tense is the key here. A decade ago the Epicentre did transform uptown for the better. Now it's bordering on transforming the area around it for the worse.

What do we replace it with? More office space and lunch areas? There has got to be something for people in uptown hotels to do at night on business trips. Parks are lovely, but not in the wintertime.

Edited November 15, 2019 by mpretori

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, mpretori said:

What do we replace it with? More office space and lunch areas? There has got to be something for people in uptown hotels to do at night on business trips. Parks are lovely, but not in the wintertime.

Wouldn't it be ironic if we returned to the Overstreet Mall concept, but with scanners at the door to make sure no weapons.

[CLT2014]

23 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

Wouldn't it be ironic if we returned to the Overstreet Mall concept, but with scanners at the door to make sure no weapons.

Children have to go through scanners at schools in many cities. Might as well add them to the Epicenter so people can go to CVS or a movie with less of a chance of getting shot by a drunk person with a gun.

When you look at the big picture of how many people get killed in Charlotte though (approaching 100 this year), it isn't that surprising we are having shootings Uptown too. Here's a map of all the homicides in Charlotte since May. Almost every corner of the city is touched by bloodshed. Sadly our utility poles are becoming covered in flowers. 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by CLT2014

[15895]

2 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

The past tense is the key here. A decade ago the Epicentre did transform uptown for the better. Now it's bordering on transforming the area around it for the worse.

 

As another poster asked, and replace it with what? If tear down epicenter, I'm curious... What development in uptown would be a good replacement to emulate? Legacy Union? 300 South Tryon (Kimpton/Barrings)? Ally Tower?  

 

We didn't embrace our past before. And we tore a lot of stuff down because of crime. Ironically, the very people who explain away how Uptown can't support certain types of retail or cheaper eating options or more local business is because we tore all of our old building stock down and only the Vapianos of the world can afford to rent in these bank lobbies and Condo tower lobbies.  Yet, here we are. Lamenting a "crime ridden" retail/entertainment hub saying it should be tore down or past its prime or that its a stain on the safe image of uptown.  Guess we havent learned our lesson lol

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by AirNostrumMAD

[CLT2014]

^ any ideas for reducing crime around Epicentre? More police, metal detectors, less clubs, less crowds allowed, or just get used to a shooting at the complex every couple months?

Closing the center is just an attempt (imo wrong one) at trying to resolve random shootings Uptown.

Edited November 15, 2019 by CLT2014