Greenville Journal contents

[gs3]

My point about P.W. being in the Midwest is that we need to STOP acting like the only place someone will find a pig or a Piggly Wiggly is in the Deep South. They can be found everywhere, along with the farmers and 'rednecks' that feed not only us, but the rest of the world too. It is a noble profession and one that probably 100% of the people posting here, don't have the intestinal fortitude to do. Stop being embarassed of the RURAL southern heritage of this area.

Lastly, Fiddlestix's point about Charlotte is well taken. Look how long it took Charlotte to stop running from it's NASCAR heritage, and finally embrace it. NASCAR finally got yuppified enough even for insecure Charlotte. Nashville learned the same lesson (about Country Music), but it didn't take as long.

Two good points vicupstate, but please note Downtown Greenville ISN'T rural.....so let Piggly Wiggly stay in the rural areas. Secondly, Charlotte embraced it's Nascar heritage, but why should Greenville embrace Piggly Wiggly.....the company wasn't started here and is just moving IN to Greenville. Piggly Wiggly is NOT Greenville's heritage. Bi-Lo would be Greenville's heritage.

[RestedTraveler]

An out-there thought and probably a pipe dream, but...maybe Hands On Greenville could somehow work together with Piggly Wiggly to staff a new downtown grocery store with people in need of job skills and a good job. And perhaps, out of this partnership, the store could simply be called the "H.O.G. Market."

[goodbye]

Once again, RT, your brilliance shines through an otherwise "worthless" discussion. I LOVE that idea entirely!

Okay, I know this is not a worthless discussion, but it does little or nothing to actually affect the end - hope you all understand my meaning.

[gs3]

Once again, RT, your brilliance shines through an otherwise "worthless" discussion. I LOVE that idea entirely!

Okay, I know this is not a worthless discussion, but it does little or nothing to actually affect the end - hope you all understand my meaning.

Great idea RT!

I think this is a very meaningful discussion as it touches the surface of an underlying issue....what kind of downtown is Greenville becoming. There are mutiple views out there....more chain stores or more home owned, is it a playground for the rich or open to all, more green spaces or more stone/paved, taller buildings or buildings more in keeping with the current look, more family oriented or more young single, etc, etc.

My whole issue is simply the Piggly Wiggly name and image. I wouldn't shop at PW regardless where it located, downtown or the burbs. To me it just seems down market. That said, downtown, should have a grocer for everyone, which it is getting with Publix, it should also have high end (Whole Foods, etc) for the people plunking down major dollars on high end condos. The stores in downtown should be unique enough to create energy and buzz not found in the burbs. As I've said previously, a company that can combine COST EFFECTIVE with UNIQUE OFFERINGS and have a great IMAGE, that company would have all the bases covered. Trader Joes in my opinion covers every base. CHEAP, UNIQUE, IMAGE.

[krazeeboi]

Who here has ever shopped in a Piggly Wiggly, and what is your impression?

[RestedTraveler]

Who here has ever shopped in a Piggly Wiggly, and what is your impression?

The ONLY time I've ever set foot in a Piggly Wiggly was during the summer of 1982 when we stopped off in Tuscaloosa, Alabama on our way to Slidel, Louisiana for a Family Reunion. I was eleven going on twelve at the time; however, my memories are still quite clear and I touched upon them somewhat in a previous post. The lighting was as loud as it was bright. There were huge jars of pickled pigs feet, hog jawls, pig brains, etc., lined up down the center of all of the meat cases. The floors were filthy. There was a lot of red, er, uh, "crimson" everywhere. And at the checkout, there was an abundance of RC and Moon Pies. It was your stereotypical "southern" scene, and I was exposed to a taste of culture shock, especially considering I was used to shopping at Kroger and Tradewell back home in Huntington, WV, at the time.

Still, I reserve jugdement and am willing to give "the Pig" the benefit of the doubt until I visit one of the stores of their newer format. As has been cited previously in this thread by someone, I'm certain that they've changed to meet the demands of today's supermarket industry. Having worked as a manager at a fairly large former chain in Central Florida (you can call it Gooding's), I know that Piggly Wiggly likely would have to have reinvented themselves to survive today. Otherwise, they'd be going the way of Winn Dixie, who (in spite of their many futile attempts) never quite got the reinvention thing down just right.

A shining example of this reinvention to which I refer: Publix. The Publix that most of you know, love, and praise today here in the Upstate is not the Publix I remember from Florida of days gone by (I still miss that Danish Bakery). There are very few traces left today of that previous incarnation of Publix. Even the hold-outs such as the College Park store in Orlando have been raized and replaced (not just renovated and updated). If you had ever set foot in one of the old Publix stores, you may actually have fuond that thoughts of Piggly Wiggly were invoked in your own minds.

You know, in spite of the trivial nature of this topic, I feel it probably deserves its own thread, if Spartan and Skyliner would be kind enough to herd all of these posts together and move them into a thread of their own. There are far more important things pertaining to the Greenville Journal that we could be discussing here.

[Greenville]

Who here has ever shopped in a Piggly Wiggly, and what is your impression?

I have been in three - two in Charleston, and one in Litchfield. The one in Litchfield was a few years ago, and my first experience with Piggly Wiggly. It was a newer store when I was there, probably no more than a few years old. The one in Litchfield was like any other new supermarket built. It was clean, well-stocked, and being in Litchfield, it was in a good area of town. It did nothing to make me question the company (other than the silly name).

The second time I went into a Piggly Wiggly was when I was visiting Charleston a little over a year ago. I was staying at a hotel, and drove to West Ashley to look for a supermarket. The Piggly Wiggly was the first place I found. It felt old, and it seemed to cater to low- to middle-income shoppers. The store was not very clean, and although they had what I needed, I knew it would not be somewhere I chose to shop if I lived here.

Then I moved down here for school, and noticed that there were a lot of Piggly Wiggly stores. I noticed that they had a big presence here, especially with the big distribution center off of I-26 on the outskirts of Charleston. Some looked okay (like the one in Mount Pleasant), and were obviously new. Most were just average, while some were in poor condition.

I don't particularly want Piggly Wiggly in the Greenville market at all, but if they enter it then I still contend that it should not be anywhere near an urban location.

[Spartan]

Who here has ever shopped in a Piggly Wiggly, and what is your impression?

The Hoggly Woggly is a perfecly good store. Their older locations (and buyouts) tend to suck aethetically, but their newer ones are no worse than any othe store. I don't see what the big deal is. The fact is that grocers are interested in downtown Greenville, and that is good. So long as the grcer builds a solid urban store then it doesn't really matter- and I suspect teh City will have many regulations requiring such a development. I mean will you honestly not shop at the Pig just because of its name? If so then you need to lighten up.

[NYTransplant]

Grand Union versus Winn-Dixie

Which came first? Were the related companies? Do their names intentionally play off each other? Are there Winn-Dixies above the Mason-Dixon Line? Grand Unions below it? Is Winn-Dixie's name an exhortation or do the hyphens hint at the adoption of a founder's surname? Is Grand Union an immodest boast or does it have nothing at all to do with the (cough) War of Civil Aggression?

Since I was 10, this inquiring mind has wanted to know....

I find it amazing, in the South, how much focus is given to a war that was over nearly 150 years ago. In all my life I never once made any connection to "Grand Union" and the Civil War, but here it took less than 24 hours.

[Greenville]

I find it amazing, in the South, how much focus is given to a war that was over nearly 150 years ago. In all my life I never once made any connection to "Grand Union" and the Civil War, but here it took less than 24 hours.

I know!

It is amazing how much anti-North sentiment still exists. Fortunately, Greenville is growing and has become enough of a melting pot that such an attitude is not prevalent. I am hoping it will continue to go away as the years go by, and people will see that everyone is not all that different.

[mallguy]

I remember from my Manhattan days seeing people protesting a CVS that opened on the Upper West Side (yes, literally, they were protesting). They considered the CVS unwelcome since it was not the type of retailer that they wanted in their neighborhood. There was a boycott of the CVS, which eventually closed due to slow sales. During my grad school days (another large Northeastern "sophisticated" city), neighborhood residents and store owners formed a defense fund to stop undesirable retailers from locating in their high-traffic urban area.

Thus I don't see Greenville as being unenlightened or anything because people don't want a Piggly Wiggly.

I also recall seeing the owners of Greenville Mall keeping the former Montgomery Ward vacant rather than leasing it to Old Navy (which they relegated to a space in the strip mall across the parking lot) because they didn't want "that kind of store" in the mall. Mall owners try to carefully select tenants that will help generate traffic that will support other stores in the mall; I don't see that a Piggly Wiggly would generate traffic that would help significantly support Rush Wilson, downtown restaurants and other upscale stores there.

[GvilleSC]

I also recall seeing the owners of Greenville Mall keeping the former Montgomery Ward vacant rather than leasing it to Old Navy (which they relegated to a space in the strip mall across the parking lot) because they didn't want "that kind of store" in the mall. Mall owners try to carefully select tenants that will help generate traffic that will support other stores in the mall; I don't see that a Piggly Wiggly would generate traffic that would help significantly support Rush Wilson, downtown restaurants and other upscale stores there.

In Greenville, a grocery store isn't going to create traffic at all that would benefit other stores and resturants. I mean why go to a resturant when you are going to a grocery store? If you're going grocery shopping, you're not going to stop in Rush wilson's with 10 plastic bags anyway. You get what you need and go home. Piggly Wiggly does NOT cater to OR attract a certain crowd; and if they do, it's not the low income rednecks yall think will shop there because of the name.

[Greenville]

I am not worried about the people Piggly Wiggly would attract, because if it is downtown it will attract people who live and work downtown. Rather, I wonder how people visiting Greenville for the first time would react if they drove down Main Street and saw a big store with "Piggly Wiggly" plastered across the front. Some possible thoughts:

"Is it a circus?"

"Is it a place for kids to play?"

"Is it the world's largest barbecue joint?"

See what I mean? Why put a Piggly Wiggly there if another store with a better reputation (and a much better name) could go there instead?

[Fiddlestix]

I remember from my Manhattan days seeing people protesting a CVS that opened on the Upper West Side (yes, literally, they were protesting). They considered the CVS unwelcome since it was not the type of retailer that they wanted in their neighborhood. There was a boycott of the CVS, which eventually closed due to slow sales. During my grad school days (another large Northeastern "sophisticated" city), neighborhood residents and store owners formed a defense fund to stop undesirable retailers from locating in their high-traffic urban area.

Thus I don't see Greenville as being unenlightened or anything because people don't want a Piggly Wiggly.

Of course nobody has to contend that all of Manhattan was "unenlightened" just because a few of the local cranks were protesting a CVS. And conversely, nobody who was protesting the CVS was necessarily enlightened just because they lived in Manhattan. I hope we're not trying to validate what some people do in Greenville as "enlightened" or "not unenlightened" because there are a few people on the Upper West Side of Manhattan who've set a precedent. If that's what it took for us to be "enlightened" that would be way too much enlightenment going on -- and with contradictory views, to boot.

That said, the people opposed to that CVS may have been highly enlightened. But the people on this board who start fretting over a retailer rumor -- without knowing anything more than "Piggly Wiggly is interested in downtown" -- are not enlightened at all.

It's mostly gloom and doom here -- based on nothing more than the name. That's not enlightened. It's reactionary. And it's a reaction that was borne in an informational vacuum.

First of all, nobody knows whether this is Piggly Wiggly corporate or its Charleston franchisee or a Greenville resident considering becoming PW's franchisee for the Western Carolinas.

Next, nobody knows whether this will be sited near Academy and Washington or just off of Main St. or somewhere else in the vaguely-defined "downtown" area.

Nobody knows what tradename the new store would operate under.

Nobody knows whether this will be a gawdy box (like the Bi-Lo at Academy and N. Main) or if it will be tucked beneath a residential-office complex with lots of ferns inside and a tasteful wooden sign hanging out front.

Nobody knows if it will be new construction, part of an ongoing project, or a move into existing space.

Nobody knows whether this is going to be Piggly Wiggly #584 or if it will be the launch of an upscale urban market concept called something like "Phineas Hogg, Greengrocer."

The main complaint here has been that the tradename "Piggly Wiggly" is unappealing and carries too much baggage -- when nobody here even knows even that much about their plans.

I'll say this...the reaction here against Piggly Wiggly based on so little information it is unenlightened. I challenge anyone to show me how their command of the facts about Piggly Wiggly's "plans" (such that they are) makes their views enlightened. That's right, my view is no more or less enlightened than anyone else's here, but it is way more open-minded and imaginative.

My objection is not to anyone's view being less enlightened than mine. (In fact, for the record, if Piggly Wiggly goes ahead and wants to stick one of its standard big boxes ("Pig Pens?") right off of Main Street, I may be one of the ones protesting, so this isn't about disagreeing with that reaction; it's all the utterly unimaginative assumptions along those lines that I'm not locking into just yet.)

My objection is only secondarily to those who try to pass off their demonstrably unenlightened views as enlightened ones. My main grievance, if you will, is that there's been very little posted here about the ways Piggly Wiggly's largely unknown plans could contribute to downtown -- or, more simply put: I'm astonished by the persistent lack of vision that's been characterized by the knee-jerk reaction against the Piggly Wiggly "news" these past few days.

We've got people here on UrbanPlanet who imagine passenger trains zipping in and out of downtown, downtown skyscrapers with green lasers visible from I-85, X-Games being hosted here, Segway riders replacing foot pedestrians downtown and pretty much everything short of hovercrafts moving people to and fro...and yet for some reason the same people can't make the simple mental leap from a blurb in the Greenville Journal about Piggly Wiggly giving our downtown the once over to how Piggly Wiggly could pull it off in a way that does Greenville proud.

Consider what people here would have thought 7 years ago if they had heard Denny's was looking at a Haywood Rd. location. They definitely would not have thought "City Range," would they? What with all the image problems Denny's had at the time, the same people who find the Piggly Wiggly news disconcerting probably would have embarked on an unenlightened protest of something that (I think) turned out to be pretty darn good for Greenville's restaurant scene. These people would have been looking backward, instead of imagining forward -- just like now.

And let's consider the mall business. Suppose a major retailer with huge image problems wants to tap into the Greenville retail market because they're real positive about what's going on here? And suppose they hire you to help them? Would you seriously tell them to screw off? Without even attempting to think what they could do to achieve their goal and make Greenville a better place? I don't have to be in the business to know what reaction is most valuable.

The disconnect between the can-do imagining that I see throughout UrbanPlanet and the insistent "no way in Hell" reaction to an itty-bitty blurb in the Greenville Journal is confounding.

So, what gives?

Not enlightenment and not anything that's remotely visionary, that's for sure.

[g-man430]

All I can say is that is one long post, but a very good post. This whole discussion about Piggly Wiggly moving to Greenville has gone soo far and too far that I think people here have forgotten that there are other things going on in Greenville that are way more important than this.

[mallguy]

I recall that Piggly Wiggly has a more upscale affiliated chain- Newton Farms. Wonder if Newton Farms is the concept that's in the rumor mill?

My two cents is that whatever one thinks of Piggly Wiggly, I'm glad that at least people are questioning whether or not it's a good thing. A common attitude I see in Greenville is that "growth is good" no matter what the growth is- e.g., a new office park, a new chain retailer somewhere, new residents, etc. In other cities I've lived in, the attitude is more that "the right kind of growth is good", and citizens more often than in Greenville oppose growth that doesn't mesh with the community's ideals and values.

Greenville's attitude might be due to the region's low population density and size (leaving more room for growth) or historical low incomes (thus people are more appreciative of anything that could lead to a more prosperous area), while other regions' attitudes could be due to higher population densities and sizes (leaving less room for new development) and historically higher incomes (making people less focused on economic development). That people are questioning whether or not a certain type of growth is desired, in my view, shows that Greenville has become a more affluent and larger city. Certainly, though, Greenville's pro-growth mentality has led to economic development that are less aggressive city wouldn't have gotten.

[btoy]

First off I want to say, I would shop at "Phineas Hogg, Greengrocer." in a heartbeat.

[quote name='vicupstate' date='Apr 13 2006, 07:04 PM' post='397439'

TBA:

** Another grocery chain is apparently looking at DT. Piggly Wiggly is also interested. {Publix already headed to McBee}

** Look for a bike rental place to show up DT that will cater to out-of-towners who want to use the bike lanes here.

** Mayor Knox White has floated the idea of an independent panel looking at settling parking violations appeals

** The long-awaited subdivision at Mulberry and Pinckney in DT should start by May.

** Look for construction of the mixed-use portion of Pendleton West to start soon.

** Renovations appear to have started at the former Carpenter Brothers on Main St. Black tarp has been stretched across the windows.

** The city is seeking $1.75mm in Federal funds to renovate Carolina Point Parkway, which runs in front of the future The South FG campus

** $50mm is rumored to be the private side of an investment in 12 acres of the Haynie-Sirrine neighborhood.

** The former Bell Furniture in the Green Ave. area may be torn down as part of the neighborhood's revitialization. Anything from a park to a new building are being considered.

** Discussions are underway about what kind of road infrastructure is needed to support Verdae.

Tidbits:

# City annexed 7.7 acres on Roper Mountain Rd.

# City agreed to use $1.8 mm in federal funds to help revitalize several neighborhoods inside the city.

# Property owners requesting annexation now have a choice of how and when they want to be rezoned. Now they have the option of waiting 10 days after annexation.

# The building at 802 S. Main will get to keep 1.8 feet of it's wall that encroached onto a city sidewalk. The city agreed to hasten the deal to redevelop the building owned by Charlotte developer Barwick & Associates.

#Upstate Alliance got a seat at the largest biotech convention in the world this week. 25 delegates from SC will attend the Chicago conference.

#The National League of cities considers Greenville, Anderson and Spartanburg to each individually be "spread cities". The term comes from a new report that is trying to redefine cities. These are characterized by low densities, few households with children, and few immigrant residents. Charleston was the only SC city considered a boomtown, which is characterized by rapid population growth, newer housing stock, wealthier residents and families with children.

[goodbye]

After witnessing Greenville completely change over the years, I can agree with mallguy.

[tablrock]

GEEZ.....all this passion over a grocery store.

[goodbye]

With all this talk about "Southern profiling" and affordable housing in downtown, I thought this article in the latest issue of LINK was interesting. What does everyone else think about Greenville's event offerings to the public? I personally think the current target is properly set to attract a good mix of people, but some think more should be offered to bring a more diverse crowd. I don't think the crowds are too unbalanced, personally, and think that targeting some crowds may bring unwanted attention. I say keep the goals and quality set at a high level and continue to make them available for everyone.

[Fiddlestix]

With all this talk about "Southern profiling" and affordable housing in downtown, I thought this article in the latest issue of LINK was interesting. What does everyone else think about Greenville's event offerings to the public? I personally think the current target is properly set to attract a good mix of people, but some think more should be offered to bring a more diverse crowd. I don't think the crowds are too unbalanced, personally, and think that targeting some crowds may bring unwanted attention. I say keep the goals and quality set at a high level and continue to make them available for everyone.

It's interesting that the LINK, which is basically an advertising vehicle for the Greenville News, fails to mention the big event -- the one coming up in a week -- the one the Greenville News is sponsoring: Artisphere and the fact that it ran a very lily-white, afraid of local flavor event last year. This year promises to be a bit more local (still no folk music, amazingly enough), but check out the Artisphere board and it's as white as can be. No Hispanics or Asians. Try as they might (and I believe the Artisphere board is sincerely trying), without any color or diversity in the leadership, you're not going to do as good a job as you can be doing in terms of creating that broad appeal. I mean, really, does Steve Brandt really need to sit on the Artisphere board himself? He can't find someone in the Gannett chain of command who's a little more salt-of-the-earth to sit in the Board seat that his paper bought for him?

[upstategeek]

In NY, we had a grocery chain that had a declining brand name called Grand Union. What they did was opened new stores under the name GU Market and made them a bit more upscale. Maybe we can convince Piggly Wiggly to open a "PW Market" downtown.

Grand Union also had that terrible tasting beer it brewed under its label. Who could shop the store without thinking of that beer...

[silverseale]

I agree with you Greenville. It's almost like having a wal-mart moving downtown or something.

I don't think it's so awful... as I recall, there's a PW in Hilton Head, and it doesn't seem to be bringing down the neighborhood. I do think if the thing is to be done at all, it needs to be done well (i.e., full service, charming architecture, etc.).

[krazeeboi]

Whoa, you mean to tell me there's a Piggly Wiggly in uppity, bourgeious HILTON HEAD? Oh wow. Wish I could see a picture. Now if one can survive there, I would have no doubts that the chain would construct a quality location in DT Greenville.

[RestedTraveler]

So, what's in THIS WEEK's Greenville Journal?!?!? Anxiety is mine, as I wait for that truck to drive up and throw my paper onto my lawn.