Greenville Journal contents

[mallguy]

I for one value every single opinion

excellent! That's the good thing about this thread and G'ville in general- lots of differing views, helping people to fully ponder the issue.

[RestedTraveler]

So, is our next U.P. Meetup going to be in Mount Pleasant at Piggly Wiggly?

[g-man430]

There have been soo many posts today about Piggly Wiggly, i'm not even going to bother reading them anymore.

[distortedlogic]

Since everyone else seems to be wieghing in, so will I. I think this is one of those rare cases where it truly is all in the name. The name is TERRIBLE, SC based or not. It totally drudges up negative southern images liked the ones I spoke of in how the outside views Gville. Bi-LO and Winn- Dixie are not too good either, but Piggly Wiggly has to be the worst. I would easily vote for a different store just because of the name. It may be ok in the burbs, but DT needs to hold out for something a little more respectable. In this case, I can't help but judge the book by it's title.

[g-man430]

Wow, we seem to be talking about this more than ICAR, Pinnacle on Main, Riverplace, McBee Station, etc.

[sleepypossum]

(Fiddlestix is a rock star...)

Can't be TOO tough on the Pig; it was the first real self-service grocery store, after all. Also, while I acknowledge that the chain maintains a significant presence in SC, the Tennessean in me must point out that the company was founded in Memphis.

I don't know that downtown wants or needs a Piggly Wiggly, but it does seem to me that downtown dwellers deserve the same range of choices that we suburbanites enjoy. We want a downtown big and vibrant and varied enough to accomodate a broad selection of retail, dining, and housing options.

[g-man430]

Just remember, it's not up to us whether we want Piggly Wiggly downtown or not, it is up to the City of Greenville.

[breed]

Just remember, it's not up to us whether we want Piggly Wiggly downtown or not, it is up to the City of Greenville.

And even then, there are limits. There is a legal quagmire waiting for cities that try to handpick which businesses locate in the city.

[Greenville]

So, is our next U.P. Meetup going to be in Mount Pleasant at Piggly Wiggly?

I can attend if it is there!

[NYTransplant]

In NY, we had a grocery chain that had a declining brand name called Grand Union. What they did was opened new stores under the name GU Market and made them a bit more upscale. Maybe we can convince Piggly Wiggly to open a "PW Market" downtown.

[krazeeboi]

You know, something like that actually did come across my mind. Perhaps the Pig should try to launch an urban brand that will fit in with downtowns.

[goodbye]

In NY, we had a grocery chain that had a declining brand name called Grand Union. What they did was opened new stores under the name GU Market and made them a bit more upscale. Maybe we can convince Piggly Wiggly to open a "PW Market" downtown.

NYT, that is exactly the same thing I thought of yesterday afternoon!

Okay, my late addition to yesterday's discussion:

• The name is very dumb (silly)
  
• The logo is juvenile and quite repulsive in the setting we're talking about
  
• When I see it and hear it, I think of the vile stench of a pig farm.
  

If anyone has been in rural areas near one, you know exactly what I mean. Pig farms have some of the most disgusting odors in the World.

[RestedTraveler]

This is uncanny; however, add another one to the "PW Market" list. I was thinking to myself yesterday while reading this thread, "if the name is what's got so many people bothered, then why don't they spawn a new line of markets with a new name...'PW Urban Market,' or 'PW,' or 'PW Market' or something?"

[Fiddlestix]

In NY, we had a grocery chain that had a declining brand name called Grand Union. What they did was opened new stores under the name GU Market and made them a bit more upscale. Maybe we can convince Piggly Wiggly to open a "PW Market" downtown.

Maybe...that's exactly what they're doing! Maybe...Piggly Wiggly is ahead of us.

But if Piggly Wiggly -- or their Charleston-based franchisee were to announce that they'd like Greenville to be the launching pad to their new, superslick "High on the Hog" city living groceries and that they'd go whole hog in putting it together and other franchisees and cities would look to Greenville as the model for what they're doing, would it be more interesting? Or is the name Piggly Wiggly too hard to get beyond?

The reaction here from people is that they can't bear the name Piggly Wiggly downtown, although the message shifts and weaves around and collides with other more callow themes -- just check out the earliest reactions. And instead of saying they'd like to see a Bi-Lo or Ingles or even a Publix, they dream of some other trendy grocer from elsewhere (e.g., Trader Joe's which isn't even close to placing its geographical footprint in South Carolina) because, as Andre Agassi said, "Image is everything." But it's not the only thing!

And even though I agree that it would be, well, trendy to have a trendy grocer, the point is that the first goal should be about serving actual infrastructure needs (and not Whole Foods and Earth Fare and niche grocers that fulfill a narrow and aesthetical interest but don't get the job done even in their big box versions). And even though we're justifiably big on "homegrown" and "originality" (at least at times), we're also very much into importing popular brands (e.g., P.F. Chang's when there's Lieu's; Ruth's Chris Steakhouse when there's Chophouse '42) to grow.

So maybe posters don'teth protesteth too much after all and it's not driven by insecurity, but it's definitely some sort of blinding fear that has a blurb in the Greenville Journal set off such a Chicken Little reaction. For all the imagination and wishful, pie-in-the-sky thinking people do on this forum -- "How about a Trader Joe's?" -- it took a disappointingly long time for people to get around to imagining how Piggly Wiggly, the store that's actually mentioned in the blurb, could be a good thing for Greenville.

I find it far easier to imagine an urbanized "City Sow" putting Greenville on the map in a positive light than placing Store #647 of [name your favorite chi-chi grocer from somewhere else] in our downtown. Yawn. "Ohhh...now we've got something that [Nashville, Charlotte, Richmond, Orlando, Atlanta, Charleston] has!" Hoping for that is too slavishly Madison Avenue, and hoping to import brands is a "Karaoke Vision" for Greenville that is utterly disconnected from the clever and very original thinking that is valued here -- from posters who have established time and again that they're original thinkers. When we do that, I think we're shooting low. The only way I can reconcile the "Karaoke Vision" that pops up occasionally from the other WOW! stuff that permeates this forum is that perhaps it's necessary to give our imaginations little vacations.

[Greenville]

How does Trader Joe's not meet the needs of an overwhelming majority of people who live and work downtown?!? What some of us are saying is that Trader Joe's is unique and trendy, yet it also has very fair prices. If that doesn't make for an excellent supermarket, I don't know what does!

I am also not sure that something like Fresh Market or even Earth Fare wouldn't meed the needs of people downtown. I agree that it is not somewhere that all people can afford, but then again, all people can't afford Publix (or even Piggly Wiggly) either. We need to think about who lives downtown, and who shops downtown. The grocer that we want there is going to meet the needs of most people. And believe it or not, that might be a Fresh Market. Hopefully the city, as well as potential grocers downtown, will do their homework to see what the market needs and will support.

[Fiddlestix]

Grand Union versus Winn-Dixie

Which came first? Were the related companies? Do their names intentionally play off each other? Are there Winn-Dixies above the Mason-Dixon Line? Grand Unions below it? Is Winn-Dixie's name an exhortation or do the hyphens hint at the adoption of a founder's surname? Is Grand Union an immodest boast or does it have nothing at all to do with the (cough) War of Civil Aggression?

Since I was 10, this inquiring mind has wanted to know....

[vicupstate]

Regrettably, vicupstate, my "last post" before yours was the one where I said I'm in serious need of psychotherapy.... You don't need to reply as I'm just going to assume you meant the one BEFORE my last post. Don't burst my bubble to correct me.

When I worked in one major city, we could be very casual during the summer and would wear shorts and Izods or Polo shirts to the office. I had a similar job in Charlotte and anything casual was strictly verboten. Not even a "casual Friday." Same brain function. Same job. It was just that the people in Charlotte (pre-Panthers) wanted so much to be something more and couldn't laugh at themselves. Yes, insecure. I'd like for us to have enough self-confidence about Greenville to think that the downtown won't go to hell in a handbasket if Piggly Wiggly were to open a store here, even on Main Street. Greenville will remain a "wannabe" location as long as people here run scared of the little things that the big cities seem to be able to weather or shrug off -- or, frankly, add to their character.

I've just decided that I now actually long for the day when Piggly Wiggly announcing its coming to downtown doesn't cause hand-wringing on this board. That's when I'll know Greenville has come of age.

^^

Another spectacular post Fiddlestix, and no I didn't mean you need pschotherapy. Your posts have been a refreshing breath of fresh air on this forum. Your last two sentences above, hit the bulls-eye.

My point about P.W. being in the Midwest is that we need to STOP acting like the only place someone will find a pig or a Piggly Wiggly is in the Deep South. They can be found everywhere, along with the farmers and 'rednecks' that feed not only us, but the rest of the world too. It is a noble profession and one that probably 100% of the people posting here, don't have the intestinal fortitude to do. Stop being embarassed of the RURAL southern heritage of this area.

The fact of the matter is that you can find poor, fair, good and excellent stores in virtually ANY grocery chain. The newer stores tend to be the better ones, the ones in more affluent markets are going to be nicer. That goes for Harris Teeter, Winn Dixie, Piggly Wiggly, and even to some degree, Publix.

Also, nearly all of these chains are moving toward the "Publix" model, but they can't replace or remodel EVERY location at once.

The only REAL objection is the name, but as Krazeboi said, people get past that. So someone who has never heard of P.W. thinks the name is funny, so what. When they see that it is just like any other grocer, they won't give it much thought after that. Does that mean we should continue to require urban residents to drive to the suburbs for groceries?

Greenville's DT has indeed prospered by paying attention to the small details. But there is a difference between saying 'we need to limit hardscape materials in Piazza Bergamo to maintain a 'soft', comforting, pedestrian environment" and saying "Piggly Wiggly isn't good enough for DT Greenville".

One other thing about Piggly Wiggly; for many years, and in some cases, even now, they were the ONLY major chain that would open a store in a predominently black neighborhood.

Lastly, Fiddlestix's point about Charlotte is well taken. Look how long it took Charlotte to stop running from it's NASCAR heritage, and finally embrace it. NASCAR finally got yuppified enough even for insecure Charlotte. Nashville learned the same lesson (about Country Music), but it didn't take as long.

[Fiddlestix]

The only REAL objection is the name, but as Krazeboi said, people get past that.

Case in point: I haven't seen any letters in the paper about naming the baseball team after a verb since the ballpark opened.

[g-man430]

I wonder if the Greenville Journal is getting this; possibly for their next big story.

[goodbye]

^^

Another spectacular post Fiddlestix, and no I didn't mean you need pschotherapy. Your posts have been a refreshing breath of fresh air on this forum. Your last two sentences above, hit the bulls-eye.

My point about P.W. being in the Midwest is that we need to STOP acting like the only place someone will find a pig or a Piggly Wiggly is in the Deep South. They can be found everywhere, along with the farmers and 'rednecks' that feed not only us, but the rest of the world too. It is a noble profession and one that probably 100% of the people posting here, don't have the intestinal fortitude to do. Stop being embarassed of the RURAL southern heritage of this area.

The fact of the matter is that you can find poor, fair, good and excellent stores in virtually ANY grocery chain. The newer stores tend to be the better ones, the ones in more affluent markets are going to be nicer. That goes for Harris Teeter, Winn Dixie, Piggly Wiggly, and even to some degree, Publix.

Also, nearly all of these chains are moving toward the "Publix" model, but they can't replace or remodel EVERY location at once.

The only REAL objection is the name, but as Krazeboi said, people get past that. So someone who has never heard of P.W. thinks the name is funny, so what. When they see that it is just like any other grocer, they won't give it much thought after that. Does that mean we should continue to require urban residents to drive to the suburbs for groceries?

Greenville's DT has indeed prospered by paying attention to the small details. But there is a difference between saying 'we need to limit hardscape materials in Piazza Bergamo to maintain a 'soft', comforting, pedestrian environment" and saying "Piggly Wiggly isn't good enough for DT Greenville".

One other thing about Piggly Wiggly; for many years, and in some cases, even now, they were the ONLY major chain that would open a store in a predominently black neighborhood.

Lastly, Fiddlestix's point about Charlotte is well taken. Look how long it took Charlotte to stop running from it's NASCAR heritage, and finally embrace it. NASCAR finally got yuppified enough even for insecure Charlotte. Nashville learned the same lesson (about Country Music), but it didn't take as long.

I understand your points, and don't disagree with them coming from your specific angle. When refering to the thoughts of a pig farm, I was not in any way suggesting this is typical only to the South. I have been near several in the North as well, make no mistake. It has nothing to do with any region in the World. I just do not like the idea of thoughts of "pig farming" in our vibrant & eclectic downtown. Farms and farming are for rural areas, not downtowns. I have nothing wrong with farmers markets and shops selling Bar-B-Q under a sign with a pig's head logo. You are correct that I would get used to the name in time (if I still reside here) and probably not think a whole lot about it someday, but I would definitely prefer a new name and identity over the extremely cheezy and negative image I see today. You can't deny that as a major improvement. While speaking about name changes, I would say that Bi-Lo should consider a new identity for its urban supermarkets as well.

[goodbye]

Case in point: I haven't seen any letters in the paper about naming the baseball team after a verb since the ballpark opened.

People will shop at a store for what they need, just as people will go to the ballpark to watch baseball. However, there will be those who hold a grudge against the organizations because of the image they dislike, and some will never step foot across the threshold because of the name.

[g-man430]

Skyliner is right about pig farms though; my uncle used to own a pig farm in Iowa and when I would go up there the smell would be horrible.

[jarvismj]

My .02: I really don't care if the pig or what come into the downtown/CBD area. In fact, no one has said anything about this, but the city cares greatly about the image that it portrays, so it won't necesarily allow an atypical big box in the downtown area, unless it is a stacked bigbox, with multiple tenants, on multiple floors. We might get a pig, but I wouldn't worry about it being a sore thumb, because of all the zoning req, etc, committee approval, more etc. Plus, our CBD is so small, that Publix is more than adequate for what we need, and I highly doubt the city will let someone raze more of downtown for a new grocery store. I could actually see the need for a Pig though out on Pendelton past Academy going westbound though.

[g-man430]

I agree with you jarvisj3. Do you think the city would actually allow Piggly Wiggly to build one of their grocery stores downtown by itself that would look like a sore thumb? I don't think so.

[goodbye]

As I said in our previous discussion on the topic, we have Publix to thank for any "yuppiness" here. They are the perfect role model for these other stores to follow - in both image and customer service.