Greenville Journal contents

[tablrock]

i think a fresh market or some other gourmet food shop would be nice downtown. i like the harris teeters in downtown charlotte as well.

[mallguy]

Does anyone have demographic info for downtown Greenville and for close-in neighborhoods that a grocery store would serve? Downtown would seem to attract very high-end and very low-end stores since the surrounding neighborhoods seem to be very upscale (e.g., Crescent Avenue) and very downscale (e.g., parts around the West End), but I don't have any statistics to support that, other than my impressions of the area.

[vicupstate]

Our city will lose about 20 years of progressiveness if Piggly Wiggly moves downtown. No thanks.

Obviously you haven't been in one of their newer stores. Getting a grocery store is HUGE for urban revitialization. The more the merrier. I welcome them with open arms. I hope the powers that be don't read these negative posts.

Church Street, West End, North End, any one of them would get a huge boost from this. If it is the name you have a problem with, please get over it. Stop being ashamed to be Southern.

New grocery stores have been a huge boost to Columbia's Congaree Vista, Jacksonville's Northside and Riverside neighborhoods, and DT Charleston.

Grocery stores always bring specialty shops with them. Video stores, dry cleaners, drug stores, etc. all of which DT needs more of.

[gs3]

All for more downtown grocery stores here. Can't wait for Publix to open! I'm simply not thrilled about Piggly Wiggly entering this market. I've been in many of their stores (they had some really nice midtown stores in Memphis). The stores are great, but I'm sorry, I think the name brings up the old South and not in a good way. Just way too Southern for me. Besides, can the market really support them? This market has multi locations Publix, multi locations Bi-Lo, multi locations Ingles, multi locations Bloom, multi locations Aldi, plus all the one offs Whole Foods, Fresh Market, Earth Fare, Garners, not to mention Wal-Mart supercenters with food. We have a lot of grocery store brands represented here already.

[vicupstate]

^^

We only have one tiny grocery store DT. One that many people won't shop in. Yes, Pubix is coming, but even it will be one of their smaller stores. The suburbanites get plenty of choices, why not the urban folks. Why must living in the city be a 'sacrifice'. There is not one grocer between my work and my home.

Food Lion is not in the Gville market at all yet. Winn Dixie has CLOSED all of their stores. Let the free market determine who makes a profit and who doesn't.

As for the name, I guess we have to change the name of Winn Dixie (on second thought why bother, they are headed for extinction anyway), Dixie cups, rename all the streets named after Confederate generals, bring down statutes of them, extinguish any trace of southern accents, southern slang, and southern food such as grits, catfish, boiled peanuts, etc.

As for me, all this PC anti-southern biase turns my stomach. I'm not ashamed of where I was born and raised, and If I feel liking having a RC Cola and a Moon Pie, I'm going to have one, and I'm not going to give two sh**s what someone thinks about it.

[gs3]

^ As my post states, I'm all for more downtown grocers. Get a second Whole Foods downtown, an Earth Fare.....something that serves an urban customer. Not the Pig. Pig's generally in the past, were in the small, southern rural markets. The name was so distinct that it was very easy for those outside the South to stereotype.....Hollywood latched on and has Piggly Wiggly in a few movies.....never in a good light.

I'm Southern too and damn proud of it! But I'm a Southerner with all my teeth, I wear shoes, I'm educated, and I don't live under a rock. Piggly Wiggly brings up images of dirt poor, barefoot and toothless. Can't get around that.

[RestedTraveler]

Where's the newest, yet closest modern Piggly Wiggly in proximity to the Upstate? We should organize an Urban Planet Field Trip to go check one out!

[mallguy]

No Piggly-Wiggly, please. I'm from the South and am certainly not anti-Southern, but I agree with the above post about Piggly-Wiggly bringing up negative images. It just doesn't have an image of being an upscale store; I don't care whether or not it's Southern.

If we have bigshot CEOs walking around DT Greenville and considering putting in upscale retailers or new office space, wouldn't we want them to see a Whole Foods Market or another upscale chain (such as Fresh Market- it's Southern-based)?

I wouldn't want JCPenney back on North Main Street, or Lerner, or any of those non-upscale retailers, either.

[RestedTraveler]

I'm familiar with those old images, too. Pickled Pigs Feet and Hog Jawls in jars sitting down the middle of the meat cooler...RC's and Moon Pies at the checkout. Horrible overhead lighting that is as noisy as it is bright.

I'm still going to keep an open mind until I see one of the new stores first-hand and can decide if the newer Piggly Image would fit with Greenville in general (much less Down Town). That's why I suggested a field trip.

[g-man430]

I love Piggly-Wiggly, i'm from the south, and I have one of their shirts which are sooo cool, but I don't want them to build a store downtown either. If they build a store anywhere else in Greenville, it's fine with me. If we have these people from other parts of the country come here and see downtown with a Piggly-Wiggly, what do you think their going to think?

[Fiddlestix]

I happen to think one of the problems with downtown -- on Main from the Peace Center on up -- is that it's too elitist. That's what I love about the West End and baseball. I disagree that it's okay to have an Earth Fare, but not a Piggly Wiggly. Almost passionately so...because I think Greenville is not well served by making Main Street into Rodeo Drive.

I don't like the idea of another version of Bi-Lo (the one on North Main that backs up to Academy) on Main Street -- but not because of brand image. I don't like the suburban grocery store model being tossed into the downtown area for functional reasons (and aesthetics). But if Bi-Lo thinks it works to have an urban market, I'm cool with that. By its very nature the urban market will be different and a departure from the regular brand.

In fact, Piggly Wiggly inside an office-retail complex is going to be an upgrade (no pickled pigs feet or pork rinds or whatever it is that people don't like about their offerings) while Earth Fare in the same location is going to be a downgrade from their upscale suburban offerings (if only because there will be less shelf space for what makes Earth Fare so distinguished and appealing and worth the extra bucks).

I've lived in several locations where the city version of the local grocery chain is definitely cool -- while the suburban locations were places I'd avoid. If Piggly Wiggly is the one that wants to make downtown/CBD living more viable, good for them! If it's Earth Fare that steps up, then I tip my hat to them for trying, but I think they're more likely to make downtown living more exclusive and less inclusive.

So, I guess this is a vote for Piggly Wiggly (or Ingles or Bi-Lo...) over an upscale, hoity-toity, blueblood chain.

[mallguy]

Good points about downtown's elitist parts.

A lot of downtowns are managing to rebuild themselves by being upscale and quaint; they are becoming sort of like theme parks for affluent adults. Princeton, NJ, Charleston, and other places are good examples of this; Greenville sort of is, as well.

Although it would be good to have a mix of retail downtown, including mid-market stores and the like, I just don't see that downtown would be as successful if it were more mid-market. Downtown used to have plenty of mid-market stores in it (almost all mid-market): Belk's, JCPenney, Lerner Shops, Woolworth, etc. were all up and down Main Street. But look what happened: they were all killed off by Haywood Mall, which at least when it first opened was very mid-market as well.

Thus I'd think that a viable way to have downtown flourish would be to have upscale, one-of-a-kind retailers there, and Earth Fare or Whole Foods would fit into that niche. I'd definitely like to have more variety of retailers downtown, so that I could just go there and shop and get everything I need rather than having to drive around town to hit stores like Sports Authority and other regular stores, but then downtown wouldn't be as good at differentiating itself from suburbia, plus downtown would have parking hassles and the like. Few successful downtowns in the US target mid-market or low-end stores.

[g-man430]

That is what makes Greenville thrive. They have a lot of local stores and restaurants instead of national ones.

[gs3]

I happen to think one of the problems with downtown -- on Main from the Peace Center on up -- is that it's too elitist. That's what I love about the West End and baseball. I disagree that it's okay to have an Earth Fare, but not a Piggly Wiggly. Almost passionately so...because I think Greenville is not well served by making Main Street into Rodeo Drive.

I don't like the idea of another version of Bi-Lo (the one on North Main that backs up to Academy) on Main Street -- but not because of brand image. I don't like the suburban grocery store model being tossed into the downtown area for functional reasons (and aesthetics). But if Bi-Lo thinks it works to have an urban market, I'm cool with that. By its very nature the urban market will be different and a departure from the regular brand.

In fact, Piggly Wiggly inside an office-retail complex is going to be an upgrade (no pickled pigs feet or pork rinds or whatever it is that people don't like about their offerings) while Earth Fare in the same location is going to be a downgrade from their upscale suburban offerings (if only because there will be less shelf space for what makes Earth Fare so distinguished and appealing and worth the extra bucks).

I've lived in several locations where the city version of the local grocery chain is definitely cool -- while the suburban locations were places I'd avoid. If Piggly Wiggly is the one that wants to make downtown/CBD living more viable, good for them! If it's Earth Fare that steps up, then I tip my hat to them for trying, but I think they're more likely to make downtown living more exclusive and less inclusive.

So, I guess this is a vote for Piggly Wiggly (or Ingles or Bi-Lo...) over an upscale, hoity-toity, blueblood chain.

I hear you. So lets say Trader Joes would be the PERFECT fit! Not elitist because anyone can afford to shop there.....great prices....BUT also as mallguy says, unique offerings. Piggly Wiggly is just an "also ran".....why do we want something so middle market (talking offerings here) downtown? Lets get UNIQUE places downtown, they don't have to be expensive or elitist, just unique. Oh, prime example....Mast General....not elitist, but DEFINITELY unique.

[g-man430]

I agree with you gsupstate. One of the reasons Greenville thrives is because its stores are unique and different then most other places.

[RestedTraveler]

THIS doesn't look all that bad to me.

It sure is a far sight better than THIS.

I'd have to see the inside, of course.

[RestedTraveler]

The one down in Mt. Pleasant doesn't look too awful, inside or out.

This reminds me a great deal of most of the Publix stores in Florida. And I think we all know from experience (or are getting ready to learn at least once McBee Station opens) that Publix can offer stores that are unique.

So, are we basically saying that we have no faith whatsoever in Piggly Wiggly to offer something charming, unique, and special to Downtown Greenville...something that would have visitors thinking fondly of us rather than turning away in disgust? Maybe I give them too much credit, but I think they could offer something quite unique.

[mallguy]

I've never been to a Trader Joe's but I've heard nothing but praise- and I think the chain is moving into North Carolina. How terrific it would be to have a complex with a Trader Joe's and a Parisian and an IMAX or the like downtown in one of those parking lots east of N. Main St.!

[goodbye]

No Piggly-Wiggly, please. I'm from the South and am certainly not anti-Southern, but I agree with the above post about Piggly-Wiggly bringing up negative images. It just doesn't have an image of being an upscale store; I don't care whether or not it's Southern.

If we have bigshot CEOs walking around DT Greenville and considering putting in upscale retailers or new office space, wouldn't we want them to see a Whole Foods Market or another upscale chain (such as Fresh Market- it's Southern-based)?

I wouldn't want JCPenney back on North Main Street, or Lerner, or any of those non-upscale retailers, either.

You all know my stance on Piggly Wiggly coming to the City of Greenville market, so I'll let that one rest for now. I am in total agreement with mallguy, it seems. To attract the type of corporations and businesses we'd love to see locate downtown, think high quality - and IMO, highest quality. My passion for our city is that it become the envy of every other in the nation and many around the World. We have acheived that to a modest extent, but there is much work to be done to continue expanding the appeal around the nation. I want to see more visitors coming and staying in downtown hotels, eating at downtown restaurants, shopping and buying at downtown shops, enjoying downtown sports and entertainment venues, and telling others back home all about this awesome place called Greenville, South Carolina.

[g-man430]

Wow, this sure is going far for something we don't even know yet. Piggly Wiggly might decide not to build downtown or the city might not allow it. There are a lot of things that could happen with this.

[gs3]

Wow, this sure is going far for something we don't even know yet.

So true! And that in of itself speaks volumns about Piggly Wiggly. Are they really right for the Greenville market? Have they really done their research? They aren't being welcomed with open arms. I bet if Bloom were opening a location downtown the reaction would be totally different. This is my last post on the subject.

[goodbye]

Are you sure about that, gsupstate?

I also meant to say that I agree with your post above.

[Fiddlestix]

C'mon...let's have a reality check about grocery stores downtown and lumping them in with retailers: NOBODY will be going downtown to buy groceries. A grocery store is going to serve the people who live near downtown. And it needs to be full service, not some niche store. People will go downtown for a unique shopping experience such as Mast General Store. And they'll drop in to other stores as they meander through the CBD. But they're not picking up a gallon of milk or bell peppers or a London broil downtown....except for people who live there. Even the people who work there are unlikely to stop by the downtown grocery store before heading home (unless home is downtown).

Function -- that is, offerings on the shelf that will meet the needs of downtown residents -- is going to be more of an attraction than an upscale grocer. And if you throw in a high-end grocer downtown, that's basically saying that only the hoi polloi are welcome. It's like saying all downtown water fountains should run on Perrier. [EDIT: Another example: it's like saying that only a AA baseball team would be worthy of playing downtown, not some mere A team.]

My guess is that Piggly Wiggly would do something profoundly different for a downtown location. As would Earth Fare. But in terms of which chain will actually serve the consumers who will actually shop at a downtown grocer, my money's on Piggly Wiggly. And if I'm downtown and want some bottled water or some other snacks for a picnic, I don't want upscale. I want to get in, get out and go to my picnic spot by the Falls without having to spend an arm and a leg. As an employer, I want economical options available to my workers -- I'm not looking to artificially drive up their cost-of-living.

I just don't see how you can say that the downtown grocer needs to be cut from the same cloth as downtown retailers. A grocery store is infrastructure, not an attraction. And Piggly Wiggly (and other mainline grocery chains) are better positioned to satisfy the infrastructure demands than a niche chain. If Earth Fare or other niche stores want to come in and serve a niche, that's fine. But you can't neglect the residents of that area, not all of whom are -- nor all of whom should be -- Greenville's silk stocking crowd. And since one is necessary infrastructure and the other window dressing, I'll take Piggly Wiggly (or Bi-Lo or Ingles or Publix) over Earth Fare right now.

[goodbye]

While a downtown grocer may not be an attraction (which is relative), it definitely can be a detraction. I have nothing against the fare sold at a decent urban grocer, but image is important to me, however right or wrong this opinion may be.

[gs3]

C'mon...let's have a reality check about grocery stores downtown and lumping them in with retailers: NOBODY will be going downtown to buy groceries. A grocery store is going to serve the people who live near downtown. And it needs to be full service, not some niche store. People will go downtown for a unique shopping experience such as Mast General Store. And they'll drop in to other stores as they meander through the CBD. But they're not picking up a gallon of milk or bell peppers or a London broil downtown....except for people who live there. Even the people who work there are unlikely to stop by the downtown grocery store before heading home (unless home is downtown).

Function -- that is, offerings on the shelf that will meet the needs of downtown residents -- is going to be more of an attraction that an upscale grocer. And if you throw in a high-end grocer downtown, that's basically saying that only the hoi polloi are welcome. It's like saying all downtown water fountains should run on Perrier. [EDIT: Another example: it's like saying that only a AA baseball team would be worthy of playing downtown, not some mere A team.]

My guess is that Piggly Wiggly would do something profoundly different for a downtown location. As would Earth Fare. But in terms of which chain will actually serve the consumers who will actually shop at a downtown grocer, my money's on Piggly Wiggly. And if I'm downtown and want some bottled water or some other snacks for a picnic, I don't want upscale. I want to get in, get out and go to my picnic spot by the Falls without having to spend an arm and a leg. As an employer, I want economical options available to my workers -- I'm not looking to artificially drive up their cost-of-living.

I just don't see how you can say that the downtown grocer needs to be cut from the same cloth as downtown retailers. A grocery store is infrastructure, not an attraction. And Piggly Wiggly (and other mainline grocery chains) are better positioned to satisfy the infrastructure demands than a niche chain. If Earth Fare or other niche stores want to come in and serve a niche, that's fine. But you can't neglect the residents of that area, not all of whom are -- nor all of whom should be -- Greenville's silk stocking crowd. And since one is necessary infrastructure and the other window dressing, I'll take Piggly Wiggly (or Bi-Lo or Ingles or Publix) over Earth Fare right now.

OK....I lied, not my last post. You read my mind Skyliner. I agree with all your points Fiddlestix....thats why I LOVE the fact that Publix will be downtown and that Bi-Lo will be downtown. Love it, love it, love it!! Basic grocery needs must be met. But Piggly Wiggly has a very negative image. Take a videa camera and stand on a street corner and say the name Publix to 100 people and I bet you get a big smile and happy words about how clean and well run the stores are, how fresh the produce is. Ask another 100 people about Piggly Wiggly and I bet 50% of the reactions will be laughs, faces, eeewwwws, etc. Publix is as middle of the road, all American as a grocer can be and they generate a positive image. Piggly Wiggly simply doesn't generate a positive image AND being that Greenville tends to generate positive energy, IMHO the Pig is out of sync.