New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[MLBrumby]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:14 AM, nashvylle said:

Well said, and I’m not saying everyone just needs to walk. I think this situation will for Nashville and Nashvillians to utilize at least efficient bus transit in the beginning. RMR’s and River North’s developments will have parking too in addition to the 2,000 spaces in the stadium campus. 

The handful of times I've gone downtown for fun with family/friends over the past 5 years, I have parked at the lot around the Bridge building at the end of the Seigenthaler bridge for free. It's usually not full either. We enjoy walking across the bridge and mingling in the crowds. What we save in parking fees, I guarantee we spend more at 2-3 different places on Broadway. We don't stay in the $300-500/night hotel rooms downtown, so that's why we drive to the east bank.  If/when parking becomes too expensive we simply will not go anymore. Yes, I hear those calls to use Uber, but we travel in groups of 8-10. I have 5 kids, and now the older ones have significant others. Can't beat free parking.  So our nuclear family alone is 7 people (plus). Add to that the people we usually meet in Nashville to "play" with them.  Since we've bought land in Sumner, we usually stay at the moderate hotels in Goodlettsville along Conference. So we'll never NOT go to downtown without the Family Truckster. 

[SumnerCountian]

On 3/1/2023 at 12:41 PM, nashville born said:

I'm reading all the above comments and all I can think is...mass transit.  I don't get it.  And apparently, neither will Nashville.

I will reply with my limited knowledge. Nashville and the surrounding counties will never get serious on mass transit because the various regional authorities can't get their act together. It would be nice if their were a Metro Nashville MSA  Regional Transit Authority, but to my knowledge there is not. I would love to be able to hope on a train of some type and ride to Nashville from Gallatin and avoid driving on I-65, but thats not happening in my life time. 

[bnacincy]

18 hours ago, SumnerCountian said:

I will reply with my limited knowledge. Nashville and the surrounding counties will never get serious on mass transit because the various regional authorities can't get their act together. It would be nice if their were a Metro Nashville MSA  Regional Transit Authority, but to my knowledge there is not. I would love to be able to hope on a train of some type and ride to Nashville from Gallatin and avoid driving on I-65, but thats not happening in my life time. 

They should name it MRT or Miro Regional Transit after this part of Middle Tennessee's original name "Miro District" named after Esteban Rodrigues Miro who was the Spanish Governor of Louisiana during the Revolutionary War period.

[gannman]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:07 PM, SumnerCountian said:

I will reply with my limited knowledge. Nashville and the surrounding counties will never get serious on mass transit because the various regional authorities can't get their act together. It would be nice if their were a Metro Nashville MSA  Regional Transit Authority, but to my knowledge there is not. I would love to be able to hope on a train of some type and ride to Nashville from Gallatin and avoid driving on I-65, but thats not happening in my life time. 

RTA of Middle Tennessee operates shuttles from Nashville to the surrounding cities. The funding is slit among the beneficiaries of the routes. They also operate the Music City Star commuter rail to Wilson County. Also, RTA is managed  by WeGo.

[FrankNash]

The RTA has been very successful so far.  It runs from Spring Hill thru Franklin as well as Clarksville, Springfield, Gallatin, Dickson.  Some are running 4 Prevost busses in the morning and evening.  Grayline is in charge of the operation.  

[Mr Gain]

On 3/1/2023 at 11:49 AM, smeagolsfree said:

I was going to try and find a comparison of parking meter rates of larger cities to see where Nashville stands but I have not had any luck yet. I know when I have been in other cities Nashville parking rates seem to be much higher than the norm of similarly sized cities. Nashville seems to be on par with the big boy cities as well as valet rates and parking garage rates. NYC we are not, and Nashville needs to stop acting like we are NYC. 

That is the problem with the land prices going up and no parking requirements now being pushed in the entire Urban core by Metro. Parking is going to become less available and more expensive because of these policies. That is why some of you guys were quick to knock me down when I spoke out against doing away with the parking requirements.

When you have no mass transit, and you have tourist from hell coming to Nashville from all over and normal folks that live here and want to come and enjoy downtown, they can't do it now. 

Metro in all of their glorious wisdom has screwed up again. Folks that are on fixed incomes just will stop coming to downtown and tourist that are lower to lower middle class are or will be priced out. Cooper has been bad for the city with all of his stupid ideas trying to fix things. The parking meter situation that is being implemented is not even the right one. There are still pay stations instead of paying by phone to my understanding. He approved a system that is still archaic just like him. You do not need pay stations to pay for parking! 

Meters are 20th century tech. you do not need meters. 

I like you Paul but, we will disagree all day on this. Metro has made a huge mistake on parking and will pay for it in the long run and get complaints from tourist and locals alike. Cars are not going anywhere for the next 20 years, and mass transit is not coming here for the next 20 years. Prepare for traffic and parking gridlock. A lot of those roads that have free parking are for residents too. Go ahead and piss those folks off. Now you will have to start issuing residential neighborhood parking passes. There are a lot of folks that want to come into town and enjoy the parks on Sunday, well if that happens, they can't do that for free any longer.

This is not about a freaking money grab by Metro. Metro steals enough of the taxpayer's money as it is, If I were a tourist visiting here and had to pay $5 bucks every time, I had to visit a different area of town with no mass transit option, that is the last time I am coming. Sort of the way I felt about some other cities I have visited about their lack of Mass transit options, Miami for one. For me never again. You leave a bad taste in enough people's mouth, and you have a problem. When you do not have the tourist to support all of the places you like then they close, and you wonder why they closed in your neighborhood. There is cause and effect to everything.

If only the no pahking lots crowed understand the basic stuff.

[SumnerCountian]

Thank you two for the info about RTA. 

[BnaBreaker]

6 hours ago, Mr Gain said:

If only the no pahking lots crowed understand the basic stuff.

Valuable input as usual.  

[smeagolsfree]

That is the problem with Trolls, they never have a valid point and nothing ever to say other than a stupid comment or to criticize folks or coming in to stir the pot. They end up trying to make fun of others but end up making a fool of themselves.

[andywildman]

RTA is seeing significant growth in ridership (Nov '22, latest board meeting showed nearly 33% YoY growth), but still way below pre-pandemic highs.

That ~18,000 monthly riders represents about 900 passengers per work-day across 9 bus routes and 1 train route. Happy to have those individuals off the road, but it's a relatively low number of users for regional transit.

[Mr Gain]

8 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

That is the problem with Trolls, they never have a valid point and nothing ever to say other than a stupid comment or to criticize folks or coming in to stir the pot. They end up trying to make fun of others but end up making a fool of themselves.

I agree 1,000%. Very astute observation. I hate when they call other people names and insult their intellect all while misspelling words and structuring sentences like they are the complete opposite of MENSA. Those types have no self-awareness of their actions don't you think?

Edited March 6, 2023 by Mr Gain

[smeagolsfree]

4 minutes ago, Mr Gain said:

I agree 1,000%. Very astute observation. I hate when they call other people names and insult their intellect all while misspelling words and structuring sentences like they are the complete opposite of MENSA. Those types have no self-awareness of their actions don't you think?

Stirring the pot. I guess Mr Gain just does not like me. LOL Easy to make spelling mistakes these days. Not so much spelling as transposing mistakes anymore. Guess he will just come back with another snarky remark! I never claimed to be a member of MENSA. Are you claiming to be? I usually go by whatever grammar and spell check they have on here. Otherwise, I don't worry about what others think. It takes the bigger man to admit I make mistakes walk away and that is what I am doing. Walking away from you and remember, tread lightly! I am not the one that looks like a fool here.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand.

MTA has a long way to go to get more ridership. It will take a lot more cooperation on the RTA front. Bos2 Nash has some good conversations with NDOT officials and others but the cost of doing enhancements to the plan he was talking about is just too expensive. Until Nashville and the State make peace and come up with a plan and the voters approve a plan, then Nashville is dead in the water as far as mass transit goes.

Maybe the next Mayor will come up with a plan that will be acceptable to the voters.

[UTgrad09]

9 hours ago, Mr Gain said:

I agree 1,000%. Very astute observation. I hate when they call other people names and insult their intellect all while misspelling words and structuring sentences like they are the complete opposite of MENSA. Those types have no self-awareness of their actions don't you think?

IT'S LIKE RAAAAAAYYYAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN

[WebberThomas4]

Only one screenshot because I refuse to download twitter (blood pressure related). It looks like the stadium bill passed on first reading and second reading/public comment will happen in April. 

[PaulChinetti]

3rd reading is always the final vote. Passing on the 1st and 2nd are usually a given.

[WebberThomas4]

Just now, PaulChinetti said:

3rd reading is always the final vote. Passing on the 1st and 2nd are usually a given.

Agree, but there was some push from my council person to delay this until the next mayor.

[DDIG]

10 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

3rd reading is always the final vote. Passing on the 1st and 2nd are usually a given.

Actually 2nd reading is the one that is usually the  real make it or break it vote. If it gets through on 2nd  then 3rd is usually a formality.

[nashvylle]

14 hours ago, WebberThomas4 said:

Only one screenshot because I refuse to download twitter (blood pressure related). It looks like the stadium bill passed on first reading and second reading/public comment will happen in April. 

Thank you Kevin Rhoten!! 

[Rick Dalton]

I thought O’Connell was a builder / wanted to get stuff done? May lose my support 

[PaulChinetti]

Sledge is usually pro building too. This is from his newsletter yesterday.

"We also have the first reading on the giant Titans stadium legislation; first reading is usually perfunctory, so I don't imagine there will be discussion on it, but who knows! I still have a lot of doubts about this proposal, which is why I voted against the "draft" that does not seem to have substantially changed."

[Bos2Nash]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:05 PM, nashvylle said:

So essentially metro is going from sales and real estate tax of $0 (not including gas station and shoneys) to half of whatever is generated in future sales tax and 100% of future real estate taxes.

the titans, not metro general fund, are backstopping the “first class condition” of the new lease, meaning if the area surrounding the stadium is never developed and does not generate any income, metro is not on the hook, the titans are. 

The 90 acres of vacant parking lots will be utilized for parks, affordable housing, and private development. 

The metro general fund is taken off the obligation for a renovation (at least $600mm+) and hotel guests will fund the majority of the interest payments, and NEW sales tax. 
 

Any general obligation bonds issued outside of the new stadium would have been issued for a stadium renovation. 

The $40mm in paid stadium expenses owed by metro’s general fund and future ~$20mm in remaining Nissan expenses also owed by general fund are now capped at $42mm and can be paid by sales tax on PSLs, not general fund… 

please approve this deal! 

This is my understanding of the financing of the project. If I am misunderstanding things from the posted documents, please help me understand. The lawyer jargon in these documents is atrocious and makes my brain hurt haha.

Financing the Project:

• $760,000,000 will come from Revenue bonds (If I remember correctly, a petition can be submitted to but these up for referendum, no?)
• $500,000,000 will come from the State 
• Personal Seat Licenses - unknown amount based on commitments (presales of them in my mind)
• StadCo (Tennessee Stadium, LLC out of Delaware) responsibility for the stadium includes the NFL contribution (about $200 million). The development lease makes it appear this amount will be the total construction minus the items above
• Cost Overruns "as determined from time-to-time" will be the responsibility of the StadCo.

There would be four funds established between Metro Government and the Sports Authority. Not entirely sure

1. Stadium Revenue Fund 
2. Maintenance and Repair Fund
3. Capital Repairs Reserve Fund - StadCo will not have access to this fund and it will be managed by the Authority. StadCo is responsible for keeping the fund "topped of". 
4. Eligible Projects Fund

Subsection j of the Intergovernmental agreement shows that the General Fund would be the backstop of any debt service for the project!

• If the Pledged Payments securing such Additionally Secured Bonds and any other available monies in funds of the Indenture are insufficient to pay debt service when due on the Additionally Secured Bonds or any other bonds issued pursuant to the Indenture on parity therewith, the Metropolitan Government hereby pledges and agrees to transfer to the Trustee an amount of Non-Tax Revenues at such time or times necessary to cure such deficiency, all in accordance with the terms of the Indenture. The foregoing pledge of Non-Tax Revenues by the Metropolitan Government is subject and subordinate to the prior pledge of Non-Tax Revenues in favor of debt obligations heretofore issued and/or incurred by the Authority or The Convention Center Authority of The Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County (the “Convention Center Authority”) and any debt obligations issued and/or incurred by the Authority or the Convention Center Authority on parity therewith.

Granted, Non-tax revenue (not property taxes or sales tax, amongst other general population collected taxes) is what makes up that support, but that is finances out of the general fund that otherwise could go elsewhere within the city to improve the city as a while. I believe that ALL debt service should be covered by StadCo.

StadCo is allowed to make any changes to the project they find necessary without approval from the the Sports Authority. They would shoulder those costs. StadCo would have approval powers over any change the Sports Authority wants, and the Sports Authority would be responsible for the cost (and subsequent costs of any delays).

Interesting tidbit that comes with the State monies and the recent attempt by the State to take control of the Sports Authority Board. 

• During the Term, the Authority agrees to entertain reasonable requests from the State to use the Stadium for civic-oriented events, and the approval by the Authority shall not be unreasonably withheld, delayed or conditioned. All terms of such use shall be subject to the terms and conditions of the Stadium Lease.

I wonder what kind of "civic-oriented events" the State is wanting in the arena. hmmmmmm.

I am having trouble finding an exact "Term" of the lease, but whenever I go through the documents and find "initial term" it refers bond maturity date. That date is set out to be June 30, 2057 which would work out to an approximate 30 year lease with three, 5 year extensions. 

StadCo is responsible for all remediation work for the footprint of the Stadium. Metro and the "Campus Developer" will be solely responsible for remediation of site outside the stadium site.

I understand that the East Bank improvements were going to be a ting whether a new stadium is built or not, but there is no clear path to that cost. I would like to see that cost.

The North Village Staging Area/Parking is an allocated 150,000 SF (400 paring spaces) for StadCo, TamCo, and its related parties for surface parking and event staging. This area can be developed when a Developer is engaged, but they need to give StadCo notice 180 days prior to the first "Team Game" (so basically February of any given year) and must replace those spots.And if there are spaces lost or "interrupted", the developer must pay a fee to StadCo per the table below. Additionally, it appears that the campus developer will have to provide a replacement of this surface parking and maintain it clear of all their equipment (wish the city would do this for sidewalks and bike lanes). This surface lot would NOT contribute to the 2,000 parking spaces required to be provided to the stadium.

[samsonh]

1 hour ago, Bos2Nash said:

This is my understanding of the financing of the project. If I am misunderstanding things from the posted documents, please help me understand. The lawyer jargon in these documents is atrocious and makes my brain hurt haha.

Financing the Project:

• $760,000,000 will come from General Obligation bonds (If I remember correctly, a petition can be submitted to but these up for referendum, no?)
• $500,000,000 will come from the State 
• Personal Seat Licenses - unknown amount based on commitments (presales of them in my mind)
• StadCo (Tennessee Stadium, LLC out of Delaware) responsibility for the stadium includes the NFL contribution (about $200 million). The development lease makes it appear this amount will be the total construction minus the items above
• Cost Overruns "as determined from time-to-time" will be the responsibility of the StadCo.

There would be four funds established between Metro Government and the Sports Authority. Not entirely sure

1. Stadium Revenue Fund 
2. Maintenance and Repair Fund
3. Capital Repairs Reserve Fund - StadCo will not have access to this fund and it will be managed by the Authority. StadCo is responsible for keeping the fund "topped of". 
4. Eligible Projects Fund

Subsection j of the Intergovernmental agreement shows that the General Fund would be the backstop of any debt service for the project!

• If the Pledged Payments securing such Additionally Secured Bonds and any other available monies in funds of the Indenture are insufficient to pay debt service when due on the Additionally Secured Bonds or any other bonds issued pursuant to the Indenture on parity therewith, the Metropolitan Government hereby pledges and agrees to transfer to the Trustee an amount of Non-Tax Revenues at such time or times necessary to cure such deficiency, all in accordance with the terms of the Indenture. The foregoing pledge of Non-Tax Revenues by the Metropolitan Government is subject and subordinate to the prior pledge of Non-Tax Revenues in favor of debt obligations heretofore issued and/or incurred by the Authority or The Convention Center Authority of The Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County (the “Convention Center Authority”) and any debt obligations issued and/or incurred by the Authority or the Convention Center Authority on parity therewith.

This is a great breakdown. The italicized paragraph above is the bad part for taxpayers, if I am reading it correctly. The mayor's office has not been upfront about this at all, imo

[WebberThomas4]

Here’s a good blog from CM Suara:

https://zulfatsuara.com/category/financial/

The $760 million would come from Sports Authoirty Revenue bonds that will be repaid by a 1% county-wide hotel occupancy tax (similar to the $500 million from the state, this can only be used for a new enclosed stadium. The money generated by this tax could not be used for a renovation or school or transit or affordable housing), in-stadium sales tax, and campus sales tax (The campus boundaries were established last week. They don’t cross the river or the interstate and currently consist of two gas stations, a body shop, an old shoneys, 3 hotels and a bunch of empty metro owned parking lots.) So the only Nashville tax payers that would fund this would be 1. Those staying at hotels within Davidson County 2. Those attending an event at the stadium. 3. Those living or spending money within the campus boundaries upon completion of construction. 

The general fund only comes into play if there is a deficiency in tax revenues. I believe that was addressed last week and the Titans have agreed to cover that - please someone correct me if I am wrong. 
 

IIRC, and again please correct me if I am wrong, a renovation would be paid for using GO bonds - which would mean either a tax increase or a reduction in city services. 

[nashvylle]

7 hours ago, samsonh said:

This is a great breakdown. The italicized paragraph above is the bad part for taxpayers, if I am reading it correctly. The mayor's office has not been upfront about this at all, imo

@Bos2Nash the $760mm will be revenue bonds, not general obligation bonds. 

I watched the presentation to the sports authority, and metro stated there would not be a backstop for the entire $760mm, but a portion, and that amount to be presented on the 28th. It would be for just the potential shortfall of debt service for that year, and it would have to be a situation where no revenue was coming in from any source (hotels, ticket tax, sales tax, etc.) for a long time (like years). 

Edited March 10, 2023 by nashvylle

[Sean blackdog]

https://www.si.com/nfl/titans/.amp/news/new-projection-date-for-tennessee-titans-new-stadium

$2.1 billion that is now projected to open in 2027.