East Bank – I-24 to the Cumberland/I-24 Overpass up to Jefferson – 338 Acres, Nissan Stadium, "Imagine East Bank"

[nashvylle]

2 hours ago, Argo said:

 

Yeah I do. That's why I have the commonsense to question why they call it affordable. So apparently it's a slight of hand word salad con. The working class can't afford to live in the so called "affordable housing". The word salad is also for the developer's lackeys and the cheerleading simp hanger-ons to feel good about being body servants for the "developers".

I think I have read that this development will have true affordable housing (60-80% of AMI). Bob Mendes and Freddie know it will be scrutinized heavily. However, given the location is near downtown, the boundaries of the AMI really matter as the AMI could become very high. 

As a silver lining, if the development were 1,500 market rate units (which it is not), that added supply does at least help mitigate gentrification from spreading throughout existing neighborhoods. 

 

[Luvemtall]

This is not just a Nashville thing, in fact Nashville is already one of the few affordable big cities in comparison to other major metropolitan areas. 
Thanks PaulChinetti for the link , that clarified the definition. Obviously 3-4 years from now, the rates will change in accordance with the ever changing economic environment. In the 1 person example they showed the full time minimum wage at 10.10 per hour, well we know that’s going to probably change. New hires at fast food joints are coming in higher than that, Walmart starts around 16-17 per hour. Now if your one person living solely on Social Security, that’s a whole different story that seems to never have a happy ending. So Argo to get a definitive answer with a set in stone figure, just can’t happen. There’s just to many different scenarios, we all have to embrace whatever happens.

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

"Parcels A & B (to the north of this initial IDA, and to the north of the new stadium), could take well more than a decade."

Does anyone have a clue as to what is to go into these spaces? Also, Craig, do you know where the hotel development is supposed to go?

IIRC, Parcel A is the WeGo Transit Hub with affordable housing above it. Understandable that this is long range because for the alignments to work, JRP will need to be grounded to allow access from the north side.

Parcel B is a future hotel development as far as I know.

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

"I have placed some info from this story regarding TPAC on the East Bank in the New TPAC thread." Mendes revealed on Monday that Metro has a tentative agreement with TPAC, which has long been rumored to be in search of a new home on the East Bank, to relocate to a riverfront parcel on the southern side of the IDA. As a part of the agreement, TPAC will also invest in some of the surrounding infrastructure, including the re-landing of the John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge, which will be structurally attached to TPAC and will extend beyond the space to deposit pedestrians almost directly next to the stadium.

As it pertains to the E Bank thread here, do you have an idea where TPAC may go? I think it is all rather intertwined at this point even though I agree it needs to be separated. It looks as if the new TPAC home will be somewhere around the pedestrian bridge! Craig, do you have any more insight on this????

IIRC, TPAC locations could be possibly on either side of the pedestrian bridge. The snip below is from the Fallon presentation that shows two possibilities (in pink).

[Baronakim]

2 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

This is not just a Nashville thing, in fact Nashville is already one of the few affordable big cities in comparison to other major metropolitan areas. 
Thanks PaulChinetti for the link , that clarified the definition. Obviously 3-4 years from now, the rates will change in accordance with the ever changing economic environment. In the 1 person example they showed the full time minimum wage at 10.10 per hour, well we know that’s going to probably change. New hires at fast food joints are coming in higher than that, Walmart starts around 16-17 per hour. Now if your one person living solely on Social Security, that’s a whole different story that seems to never have a happy ending. So Argo to get a definitive answer with a set in stone figure, just can’t happen. There’s just to many different scenarios, we all have to embrace whatever happens.

That is why I retired at a distance from the city early and commuted 100+ miles per workday.  I can live on SS with a moderate boost from 401K and sale of some surplus and unneeded assets.  The raw acerage across the street from my farm auctioned off last Saturday was in the $25,000+ per acre range.  I bought my 50 for about $700 per acre. Two years earlier and I could have bought it for $300 per acre...all I wanted.   I have already turned down offers over $40,000 per acre, plus the value of the structures.   Yep, Nashville folks that are older and only propery rich are S.O.L. if they want to stay put.  I can appreciate why so many are bitter.  The influx of new folks from other big cities have a huge advantage of having sold their properties for big bucks and discover that there are still bargains here to be found.  I rather  doubt this will last more than a decade more though IMO.

 

Edited January 23 by Baronakim

[Luvemtall]

I know what you’re saying, and can testify to that fact. We sold our farm on the Wilson/Smith County line last year and moved into a smaller house on 1/2 acre in Murfreesboro. We wanted to be closer to our children and the convenience of an urban environment, my wife and daughter were the animal lovers hence the farm . But after my daughter went off to college and no longer rode the horses, it was time to downsize. We sold to a couple from California who only saw a video of the place and they paid full price, which we intentionally set high to gage the market. Let’s just say we made well over 20,000 per acre then what we paid for it, paid cash for our new home with cash left and transferred that into our investment properties. But they said it was a bargain compared to what was in California, so it might just be that way for a while. Your right about the folks that are just property rich in Nashville, some might be better off to cash in and find a lesser expensive property in the outlining area, but that may be further away then they would be comfortable. 

Yep, I hear you Mark. It’s so easy to get off tract and forget what subject you’re in. 

[Baronakim]

2 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

I know what you’re saying, and can testify to that fact. We sold our farm on the Wilson/Smith County line last year and moved into a smaller house on 1/2 acre in Murfreesboro. We wanted to be closer to our children and the convenience of an urban environment, my wife and daughter were the animal lovers hence the farm . But after my daughter went off to college and no longer rode the horses, it was time to downsize. We sold to a couple from California who only saw a video of the place and they paid full price, which we intentionally set high to gage the market. Let’s just say we made well over 20,000 per acre then what we paid for it, paid cash for our new home with cash left and transferred that into our investment properties. But they said it was a bargain compared to what was in California, so it might just be that way for a while. Your right about the folks that are just property rich in Nashville, some might be better off to cash in and find a lesser expensive property in the outlining area, but that may be further away then they would be comfortable. 

Yep, I hear you Mark. It’s so easy to get off tract and forget what subject you’re in. 

I think you are replying to my post which is still on the East bank thread and was not moved.    Yep, we both made out like bandits with our farms, though I think I will hold out for another several years before cashing in.  If they four lane US 431 which has been rumoured, it will boost my farm value hugely being between I 65 and Us 431  justnorth of exit 37.

 

Edited January 24 by Baronakim

[Luvemtall]

53 minutes ago, Baronakim said:

I think you are replying to my post which is still on the East bank thread and was not moved.    Yep, we both made out like bandits with our farms, though I think I will hold out for another several years before cashing in.  If they four lane US 431 which has been rumoured, it will boost my farm value hugely being between I 65 and Us 431  justnorth of exit 37.

 

I must have posted right as Mark moved them. I think your right on holding on for a bit longer, makes sense and if that road gets four lanes you know the deep pocket Developers will swarm right in. 

[smeagolsfree]

14 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

IIRC, Parcel A is the WeGo Transit Hub with affordable housing above it. Understandable that this is long range because for the alignments to work, JRP will need to be grounded to allow access from the north side.

Parcel B is a future hotel development as far as I know.

IIRC, TPAC locations could be possibly on either side of the pedestrian bridge. The snip below is from the Fallon presentation that shows two possibilities (in pink).

Thanks Craig, I have updated the map somewhat accordingly with what has been noted in the stories. I know it is all a bit speculative at this moment but is more concrete than it was before. At least we have a pretty good idea of where TPAC will go, and it is on the map now. I think we will not even see this project half done ten years down the road. The Titans stadium & TPAC represent 2.8 billion dollars in construction spending before and infrastructure or any kind of ancillary projects go forward. 

Just based on what you are seeing here what kind of total investment do you think will happen on the EB over the next 15 years? I am talking the entire approx. 280 acres. I have a number in mind based on an average and want to see where we are at.

BTW,

Still updating the map but slowing down. Surgery tomorrow! Out of commission for SIX weeks.

[Luvemtall]

First off, Smeags best wishes for a speedy recovery! Second to add to the speculation, how long does everyone expect it will take to see the other East Bank projects start and completion? I’m talking the ones not related to any of the Metro/ Fallon projects. Like Station East, GBT, the few Hotels that have been brought forward and of course Oracle. I know it’s been mentioned that the Boulevard and JRP have to get figured out,but once those boundaries are made can’t these projects begin?

[markhollin]

9 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

First off, Smeags best wishes for a speedy recovery! Second to add to the speculation, how long does everyone expect it will take to see the other East Bank projects start and completion? I’m talking the ones not related to any of the Metro/ Fallon projects. Like Station East, GBT, the few Hotels that have been brought forward and of course Oracle. I know it’s been mentioned that the Boulevard and JRP have to get figured out,but once those boundaries are made can’t these projects begin?

We discussed some of this at our last Meet-Up earlier this month.  I'll reiterate my thoughts from that gathering: 

- I believe that from the Fallon area at least one of the hotels (40 and 16 stories) and the parking garage (2,000 spaces) will be getting underway to be ready when the new stadium is complete in late summer of '27. 

- I would think that any of the commercial projects that the Titans have in mind for their Stadium Village portion would also be ready by the stadium's opening.  

- The Residence Inn (15 stories, 235 rooms, 8,500 sq. ft. of retail, internal garage) at the NW corner of South 1st and Oldham St. may be starting this year in order to help serve all the construction workers in/around the stadium.

- I think we could also see starts within the next year for at least one of the hotels along Cowan St. (Hilton Tempo/Homewood Suites/17 stories/275 rooms;  611 Cowan Dual Brand Hotel/17 stories/204 rooms; and Pinnacle Hotel project at 801 Cowan/15 stories?/250 rooms ) to serve the stadium construction, as well as the Oracle campus construction. 

- Staton East may want to get a first phase out of the ground in the next several years as well.

[markhollin]

CityNowNext with more info on the East Bank Pump Station:

https://citynownext.com/2024/01/24/metro-plans-30-million-pump-station-to-serve-the-nashville-east-bank/#more-38265

[smeagolsfree]

1 hour ago, Luvemtall said:

First off, Smeags best wishes for a speedy recovery! Second to add to the speculation, how long does everyone expect it will take to see the other East Bank projects start and completion? I’m talking the ones not related to any of the Metro/ Fallon projects. Like Station East, GBT, the few Hotels that have been brought forward and of course Oracle. I know it’s been mentioned that the Boulevard and JRP have to get figured out,but once those boundaries are made can’t these projects begin?

Thanks for the well wishes! I think we are looking at 20 years of build out on the East Bank IMO maybe longer. I think Fallon is going to be involved in Nashville for a long time and the East Bank stadium buildout is a long-time buildout of a minimum of 15 years. I will not live to see the completion of all that will be built on the EB.

[nashville born]

Anyone have any thoughts on when we might see the first renders for early res buildings or for TPAC?

[Luvemtall]

2 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Thanks for the well wishes! I think we are looking at 20 years of build out on the East Bank IMO maybe longer. I think Fallon is going to be involved in Nashville for a long time and the East Bank stadium buildout is a long-time buildout of a minimum of 15 years. I will not live to see the completion of all that will be built on the EB.

I’m thinking that same scenario, I’m 62 and I have doubts if I will make to my 80’s . But let’s stay optimistic , maybe we are going to get lucky and they get things built out sooner then later.

[smeagolsfree]

2 hours ago, nashville born said:

Anyone have any thoughts on when we might see the first renders for early res buildings or for TPAC?

Probably not until late this year or early next year at the earliest.

[Baronakim]

3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

I’m thinking that same scenario, I’m 62 and I have doubts if I will make to my 80’s . But let’s stay optimistic , maybe we are going to get lucky and they get things built out sooner then later.

Whhaaaattt???    Guys, I figure I have a quarter cent or more before I give up.  I'll only be 77 in May!  The AVERAGE age of my male ancestors for the past 2 generations or so is about 90 and that was without the hugely superior medical care I have had most of my life  I'm looking at 103, 105 maybe.   I've only begun to outlive my first husband yet.  Never give up! Never surrender!

 

Edited January 25 by Baronakim

[Luvemtall]

That’s a great attitude! I’m going to have to adopt it, I really want to see a developed EastBank. Thanks for the pep talk!

[markhollin]

CityNowNext with more analysis of latest proposals for initial East Bank phae:

https://citynownext.com/2024/01/25/updated-master-plan-resembles-original-concept-vs-rfp-in-east-bank-nashville/#more-38283

A few updated renderings:

[nightranger36]

Disappointed. Was a big fan of  the curved and wider pedestrian bridge extention. Now it is straight and narrow, with less elements of interest lining it along the way. Just a people mover now it seems. Hope i am wrong.

[smeagolsfree]

Morning all, remember this is very early in the stages of the game. Really nothing to get upset or excited over yet. We have no idea what it will look like or function like.

[Bos2Nash]

7 hours ago, nightranger36 said:

Disappointed. Was a big fan of  the curved and wider pedestrian bridge extention. Now it is straight and narrow, with less elements of interest lining it along the way. Just a people mover now it seems. Hope i am wrong.

100% agree with the disappointment. The MCM should be a marquee element of the connection of the river. I will say the crossing of the Boulevard with that oculus type opening in it never seemed very realistic to me.

Reading the article, this current iteration changes the MCM more to an egress path then monumental connection. There is still potential for the MCM where it discharges at the stadium village and between Building E and E1, but the path itself appears to be quite underwhelming. With the reconfiguration of the stadium village area though, it makes sense that the MCM wouldn't cross another road though, because then you are dead-ending into a building rather than a plaza, so it bringing it down to grade feels appropriate to access the stadium entry area.

But like smeags said, it is still very early. The connection of TPAC to the MCM along with Building E and/or F (depending on final TPAC location) could be designed very nicely within that width and could still be very well utilized and activated. Straight lines can absolutely be sexy. Just hard to represent that from such an elevated view so early in the process.

I do believe that with this configuration of the stadium village all but confirms that when/if Nashville gets the NFL draft again it will take place on Lower Broadway instead of on the East Bank. Just not enough space for a main stage and crowds in this area.

[Rlooper]

10 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Morning all, remember this is very early in the stages of the game. Really nothing to get upset or excited over yet. We have no idea what it will look like or function like.

During the meeting Mendes did note that if they were going to approve it today this is what it would look like.  I’d be surprised to see them beef the MCM back up, it would increase the cost significantly.

[markhollin]

Fencing up and some surface excavation underway just to the south of Nissan Stadium.

Looking SW from. intersection of Victory Lane and South 1st St:

[markhollin]

Mayor Freddie O'Connell is proposing that the East Bank have its own governing authority.  Hence, he is proposing the East Bank Development Authority to Metro Council and the State. 

The authority would have the "powers necessary to oversee and encourage prompt and orderly public and private development of the East Bank," O'Connell's office wrote in a Feb. 5 email to Metro Council members.

At its heart, the proposal speaks to the sheer length of time — likely one to two decades — it's expected to take to fully realize Metro's sweeping reimagined version of what today is a largely industrial area with a number of sizable parking lots. That timeline will far outlast O'Connell's time in office, even if he's re-elected.

O'Connell's office detailed certain pieces of the plan, including:

• The authority would "coordinate the orderly installation of infrastructure within the [authority's] boundaries."
• The authority would not have zoning powers or eminent domain powers.
• It also wouldn't be able to borrow money without Metro Council approval.
• The Metropolitan Sports Authority would still have oversight of the future $2.1 billion Tennessee Titans stadium.
• The East Bank authority would have 10 members, likely chosen by a mix of Metro and state officials. Those involved in shaping the plan are still negotiating who receives how many appointments, said O'Connell spokesman Alex Apple.
  
  More at NBJ here:
  
  https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/02/05/east-bank-development-authority-mayor-tn-gop-bill.html
   

[markhollin]

An analysis done for the city, obtained through a public records request, describes an existing CSX rail line as a "choke point within the East Bank" as well as a "barrier to both transportation and investment and the built environment and disruptor to continuity."

If the tracks remain, according to the report, they would force three key proposed roads — including an expansive "spine" boulevard with dedicated bus lanes — to descend below flood elevation, exposing them to likely flooding during heavy rainfall.

Consultants at Kimley-Horn and Associates Inc., who prepared the advisory report for Metro, recommended solutions that could cost between roughly $400 million and $500 million. That investment in rail construction and upgrades could enable CSX to shut down the line going through the East Bank and route those trains elsewhere.

The report, written in 2023, predicts that "freight rail presence in the East Bank will eventually become obsolete" as more redevelopment occurs.

The report focuses on CSX's "Nashville Terminal main" line, which bisects the East Bank and averages 19 trains per day, as well as another route called "Radnor Cutoff." CSX's major local hub is named Radnor Yard.

The Radnor route travels on a single track over an elevated trestle in East Nashville at the east edge of Shelby Park, and then a bridge over the Cumberland River. The report proposes adding an additional track, either by building an adjacent single-track bridge or tearing down the current bridge and replacing it with a double-track bridge.

That, plus other upgrades along the route, could allow it to handle the current train traffic on the "main" line and potentially extra capacity.

Leaving the "main" line in operation would cost an estimated $60 million in additional East Bank construction because three north-south roads that Metro wants to create would have to run beneath the tracks at clearances required by CSX. To do that, the roads would need to dip below "base flood elevation."

Metro would build retaining walls and pump stations to protect the roads. "However, such infrastructure is not foolproof," the report reads, "and it is likely [the roads] would become submerged during periods of heavy rainfall."

Removing the CSX rail would eliminate that $60 million expense and improve the resiliency of whatever is built.

Removing the rail also creates the potential for a "rails to trails" style extension of the city's Greenway network. It would improve traffic flow at the five crossings where drivers sometimes wait for trains to go by, and eliminate the noise those trains generate in that area.

However, rerouting those trains to the Radnor Cutoff line would increase delays and noise at the eight places where roads cross that existing track, the report notes.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/02/06/east-bank-csx-freight-rail-development-trains.html