Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[smeagolsfree]

One thing I noticed in Germantown the other day is the company that was in the old Peafowl theater location has moved, indicating that project is about to start.

[BnaBreaker]

How about some nailed together plywood held up by a couple sawhorses??  That'll do, and won't cost more than a few bucks! 

 

Alright, obviously that was in jest, and there is a big middle ground between plywood and the current proposal.  My point though is that sometimes the investment is worth it.  Sometimes investing in vanity can help a neighborhood find it's identity and make it all it can be.  I know that's easier said than done from my vantage point since I won't have to pay for it.  But aside from the visual impact projects like this can provide, I think what the pedestrian bridge does is provide a visual focal point for tourists mulling around downtown.  They see the bridge and they know instantly not only where The Gulch is, but also that it is an easy and safe walk.  They know when they see that bridge that The Gulch is a special place worth visiting, and creates a psychological connection to downtown as well as a physical one that a narrow sidewalk next to an automobile overpass simply can't offer. 

Edited September 10, 2014 by BnaBreaker

[nashvylle]

I am not disagreeing with anyone, but to play devil's advocate, assume this bridge proposal was not in The Gulch, but in Belmont. Would everyone on here think that the residents should pay for it without the government's help? 

 

I am a downtown enthusiast like many on here. I currently live in NYC, and this bridge proposal could be Nashville's mini version of The Highline in NYC, which has essentially revitalized an abanboned section of NYC with office/retail/residential/restaurants. IE sometimes the investment (by the government) yields returns far more than the cost.

 

I will check later to see what the exact financing was for The Highline. My initial thought was it was a public/private partnership. I do hope the pricetag on this proposal goes down and private investors help pay for it.

[vinemp]

But aside from the visual impact projects like this can provide, I think what the pedestrian bridge does is provide a visual focal point for tourists mulling around downtown.  They see the bridge and they know instantly not only where The Gulch is, but also that it is an easy and safe walk.  They know when they see that bridge that The Gulch is a special place worth visiting, and creates a psychological connection to downtown as well as a physical one that a narrow sidewalk next to an automobile overpass simply can't offer. 

I wonder if we underestimate the place of so-called vanity projects in the city---as catalysts for growth and development. It is easy to critique their place as public art pieces, tout their usefulness for tourists; however, I find it peculiar that we don't often immediately appreciate their place as magnets for talent. We do not lack precedent. (Pick any beautiful, popular, successful city!)

 

People don't simply enjoy visiting cities that look nice and have nice things; people are compelled to move to those cities, explore life in those cities, build careers in those cities, raise families in those cities, and invest in a sense of civic pride in those cities that their posterity inherits in the form of their very identity.

 

In short, to ignore the affective elements of the built environment has ne'er been the best public policy. In fact, to do so has been/is just plum dumb.

Edited September 10, 2014 by vinemp

[Guest]

Nashvylle, I 100% agree with you.

 

The Gulch is the hottest area in the city. The city does not need to coax development in this area. I am as developer friendly as they come. I support TIF redevelopment and some infrastructure expenditures when an area is developing ....but the Gulch has arrived. It is no longer a nascent development. If we are still doling out public funds to help that area develop then IMO we have lost all sorts of perspective.
 

 

 

I am a downtown enthusiast like many on here. I currently live in NYC, and this bridge proposal could be Nashville's mini version of The Highline in NYC, which has essentially revitalized an abanboned section of NYC with office/retail/residential/restaurants. IE sometimes the investment (by the government) yields returns far more than the cost.

 

 

I love the Highline!!  I am totally for a public/private partnership (of course my preference would be Private/public). That is what I am suggesting with the special taxing district. Heck I live in a special taxing district downtown. I pay extra taxes for street sweepers, graffiti removal, the tourist helpers in yellow... all things that help keep downtown somewhat safe and clean(er).

In this article it details the Highline (3rd phase)receiving $5 million from NYC and $85 million from the private sector ... that ratio seems about right to me.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120719/chelsea/critics-question-5m-city-donation-high-line-expansion

Edited September 10, 2014 by Guest

[UTgrad09]

I like the idea of the bridge. I like the idea of it being a cool design, rather than the type of pedestrian bridges we see crossing our interstates.

 

But I also think this ranks low on the priority list right now. The Gulch is going to develop regardless. It already has. I think the SoBro side development is inevitable. It would be sweet to connect the two, but it really isn't as time-saving as one might think. Unless you live at the back end of Pine Street Flats, it isn't going to make a big difference.

 

I think psychologically, this bridge seems like it will accomplish a lot (and there's something to be said for that)...but physically, it makes minimal difference.

 

12th and Division (ICON corner) to the back door of Bridgestone:

via Demonbreun ~4,290' -- 7 street crossings, 3 'major'

via Overton/Gleaves/8th ~4,870' -- 8 street crossings, 2 'major', 10 panhandlers

*via proposed bridge ~4,155' -- 7 street crossings, 2 'major'

**via elevator/stairs to Demonbreun ~4,069' -- 5 street crossings, 2 'major'

 

11th and Pine (measuring from Velocity's front door) to the back door of Bridgestone:

via Demonbreun ~3,998' -- 7 street crossings, 3 'major'

*via proposed bridge ~3,519' -- 4 street crossings, 2 'major'

**via elevator/stairs to Demonbreun ~3,356 -- 4 street crossings, 2 'major'

 

*Gulch Crossing, and does not include any steps or travel within the structure. Also does not take into account time at elevator, or speed of stair climb.

**distance on pedestrian bridge is an estimate, and it could also vary depending on the Turnberry and/or Westin developments.

'Major' streets: 11th, 12th, Demonbreun, 8th

 

 

 

I did the measurements as I went. I think the bridge would be a nice touch, but after looking at the numbers, I think it's pretty damn clear that it is not necessary. I didn't realize that cutting it off at Demonbreun @ 11th is a shorter distance than the bridge....or even with stairs/elevator wait, more or less the same. It would seem the prudent thing to do would be to ensure that there is public access to stairs/elevator at Gulch Crossings....if the city has to pay for something, that would certainly be more economical than a bridge.

I should also add -- it probably WOULD make a big difference to have the bridge depending on what develops along KVB. 

[donNdonelson2]

"In this article it details the Highline (3rd phase)receiving $5 million from NYC and $85 million from the private sector ... that seems about right to me."

 

 

If the public/private investment percentage for the Gulch/SoBro Bridge were along the lines of this NYC project, I would be 100% supportive!

 

[titanhog]

If they don't end up building the bridge, I hope they find a way to upgrade the Demonbreun viaduct sidewalks.

[chelovek]

Our next mayor will have a lot on the plate regarding walkability and pedestrian infrastructure.

 

Walk/Bike Nashville is hosting a candidate forum where the mayoral frontrunners will get a chance to outline their strategy to turn the tide on Nashville's pitiful pedestrian record.

 

I hope you all will come and bring this discussion about public/private financing, downtown v. neighborhood focus, and facility quality to the people who will be making these decisions in the next administration. Your enthusiasm and expertise would benefit the city.

 

More details here: https://www.facebook.com/events/359966430823457/

[satalac]

What about a zipline across the gulch? That would be quicker and cheaper.

[Leif]

If they don't end up building the bridge, I hope they find a way to upgrade the Demonbreun viaduct sidewalks.

I don't think the sidewalk situation on the viaduct is that bad, certainly ahead of the interstate bridges.

As someone who lives in the Gulch I still think this more for hotel developers than anyone. Getting to SoBro via 8th feels sketchy at night but that area seems primed to develop in near term so probably a non issue in 2-3 years and the stairs will make getting to viaduct a bit quicker. In addition maybe we are weird but if I am going to Etch or the Ryman etc from Gulch I Uber anyway. (Yes walking is physically possible and easy but wearing nice clothing and I'll sweat, she'll complain, etc)

[Nashville Cliff]

 

I did the measurements as I went. I think the bridge would be a nice touch, but after looking at the numbers, I think it's pretty damn clear that it is not necessary. I didn't realize that cutting it off at Demonbreun @ 11th is a shorter distance than the bridge....or even with stairs/elevator wait, more or less the same. It would seem the prudent thing to do would be to ensure that there is public access to stairs/elevator at Gulch Crossings....if the city has to pay for something, that would certainly be more economical than a bridge.

I should also add -- it probably WOULD make a big difference to have the bridge depending on what develops along KVB. 

 

 

I wonder how that works out for cyclists.  The bridge would be a pedestrian/bicycle bridge.  Steps don't lend themselves to cycling.  The viaduct has lanes, but going west toward the Gulch, you have to cross traffic to make the left onto 12th.  The bridge looks a lot easier for the casual cyclist.

[Leif]

I wonder how that works out for cyclists. The bridge would be a pedestrian/bicycle bridge. Steps don't lend themselves to cycling. The viaduct has lanes, but going west toward the Gulch, you have to cross traffic to make the left onto 12th. The bridge looks a lot easier for the casual cyclist.

The bridge as of last year was going to have steps on the Gulch side so bikes would have to dismount and walk the stairs.

[Nashville Cliff]

The bridge as of last year was going to have steps on the Gulch side so bikes would have to dismount and walk the stairs.

 

Wow.  That's fairly stupid of them.

[Nashville Cliff]

Wow.  That's fairly stupid of them.

 

Though, in all fairness, there are probably design and site limitations I'm not aware of.

[Bezoar]

Wow.  That's fairly stupid of them.

 

 I think there was going to be some kind of ramp on the gulch side where you could walk your bike down, but still this seems like a big design flaw.  Also, not great for people with mobility problems (you can't walk your Hoveround down those steps).

[Guest]

Here is a link to the rendering on the nash gov site. I can not tell if the Gulch side of the bridge is stairs only but it does look like Leif is correct. It references a 'bike channel" of 2".... maybe because the bridge's egress is at the sidewalk and not the road.....

http://www.nashville.gov/Portals/0/SiteContent/pw/docs/projects/division/131113Renderings.pdf

Edited September 10, 2014 by Guest

[Leif]

Wow. That's fairly stupid of them.

No room for a ramp on Pine, at least without getting into a squabble with Velocity or Pine St Flats as I understood it. They were going to have an elevator and grooves on the stairs that'd allow easier bike walking.

[bwithers1]

Our next mayor will have a lot on the plate regarding walkability and pedestrian infrastructure.

 

Walk/Bike Nashville is hosting a candidate forum where the mayoral frontrunners will get a chance to outline their strategy to turn the tide on Nashville's pitiful pedestrian record.

 

I hope you all will come and bring this discussion about public/private financing, downtown v. neighborhood focus, and facility quality to the people who will be making these decisions in the next administration. Your enthusiasm and expertise would benefit the city.

 

More details here: https://www.facebook.com/events/359966430823457/

Hey, I'm not on Facebook at all.  I mean at all.  I can't even open it.  So can we post this information somewhere more visible?  I'l like to come.

[UTgrad09]

I wonder how that works out for cyclists.  The bridge would be a pedestrian/bicycle bridge.  Steps don't lend themselves to cycling.  The viaduct has lanes, but going west toward the Gulch, you have to cross traffic to make the left onto 12th.  The bridge looks a lot easier for the casual cyclist.

 

Put up a flashing pedestrian crossing sign @ Gulch Crossing. If an elevator can't work into the GC plan, then put it on the opposite side of the street.

[Guest]

see, we just saved the Nashville taxpayers $14,700,000.... ungrateful lot!... ha

Edited September 10, 2014 by Guest

[vinemp]

Our next mayor will have a lot on the plate regarding walkability and pedestrian infrastructure.

 

Walk/Bike Nashville is hosting a candidate forum where the mayoral frontrunners will get a chance to outline their strategy to turn the tide on Nashville's pitiful pedestrian record.

 

I hope you all will come and bring this discussion about public/private financing, downtown v. neighborhood focus, and facility quality to the people who will be making these decisions in the next administration. Your enthusiasm and expertise would benefit the city.

 

More details here: https://www.facebook.com/events/359966430823457/

And, when you attend, please make sure you present the argument that the pedestrian bridge, however it is ultimately realized, would fill a wide interruption in the street grid that Gulch Crossings will not remedy.

 

Yep, I am doubtful that this is a project that should be put on the back burner for too much longer. There's too much promise in it.

 

If the next city administration is going to seriously look at making Nashville more friendly to alternative forms of transportation (i.e. biking and walking), then they are going to have to consider what it means to get around sans an automobile, which is more than just hoofin' or pedalin' just because it's trendy or makes one feel more urban. For example, Leif mentioned taking Uber instead of walking. Well, that's überneat that he can elect to do so. But why shouldn't he and other Gulch residents be afforded a more direct route to SoBro et al. without calling a car service or driving? If these two areas are meant to be more than just up and coming, they're going to need to be better connected. Period. (This includes the realization of the Division St. extension.)

 

And, let's not forget, Gulch residents are not the only ones who mean to move about the Gulch and SoBro---some people need to park and walk. That means that visitors need to be able to find a safe place to leave their autos, which is clearly only going to grow more difficult in the Gulch as development rolls along, and walk to and from and around n' bout their destinations (e.g. from the clearly more ample parking lots directly across the railroad tracks at Cannery Row).

Edited September 10, 2014 by vinemp

[chelovek]

Hey, I'm not on Facebook at all.  I mean at all.  I can't even open it.  So can we post this information somewhere more visible?  I'l like to come.

 

from their FB:

 

Wednesday, October 8

at 7:45am - 9:00am

 

Location:

 

Ruby

2411 Blakemore Ave, Nashville, Tennessee 37212

 

 

Join Walk/Bike Nashville and the Sidewalk Foundation/Shade Parade for a coffee and panel discussion with the candidates for Nashville's next mayor. 

WPLN's Bobby Allyn will moderate a discussion with Mayoral Candidates on sidewalks and the future of our streets.

Coffee and snacks will be provided.

Doors open at 7:45am, panel discussion begins at 8:00am.

Please submit questions for candidates to [email protected].

Parking will be available at Harris Hillman (1706 26th Ave S, Nashville, TN 37212) or you can walk or ride your bike!

[Guest]

Someone help me out here... is this a bait-n-switch tactic?

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2014/09/10/dean-gulch-properties-pay-pedestrian-bridge/15399667/

 

The relevant point, not detailed in the story from the Tennessean, is where would the property tax money have gone normally one the TIF is paid? If the answer is (a) the general fund of Davidson County, then yes Houston we have a bait-n-switchand a very very gullible Tennessean newspaper. If the answer is (b) the tax would have ended then yes, indeed the Gulch developments are paying off the bridge bonds.

 

 

I think the answer is (a)!

[Nashville Cliff]

Someone help me out here... is this a bait-n-switch tactic?

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2014/09/10/dean-gulch-properties-pay-pedestrian-bridge/15399667/

 

The relevant point, not detailed in the story from the Tennessean, is where would the property tax money have gone normally one the TIF is paid? If the answer is (a) the general fund of Davidson County, then yes Houston we have a bait-n-switchand a very very gullible Tennessean newspaper. If the answer is (b) the tax would have ended then yes, indeed the Gulch developments are paying off the bridge bonds.

 

 

I think the answer is (a)!

 

You would have to look at the specific TIF plan for the Gulch to see how long it is in effect, but, in general, as long as the plan is in effect the increment would either go to budgeted public improvements, paying off the debt, or revert to the general fund.  The Comptroller's Office has a nice summary of the 2012 changes to TN's TIF statutes at http://www.comptroller.tn.gov/repository/NR/4_PageRoadmap.pdf.