Brightline Trains

[dcluley98]

More high speed testing. This time on the FEC corridor in Brevard County. 

 

[jrs2]

Same ole...

https://news.yahoo.com/south-floridas-brightline-delays-trips-090000901.html

Also, from the 13th:

https://mynews13.com/fl/orlando/in-focus-shows/2023/08/11/in-focus

[jrs2]

This is a good article from The NYPost:

https://nypost.com/2023/08/12/is-floridas-brightline-the-train-of-the-future/

[rolly]

This article says Brightline is forecasting an opening of Orlando service (connecting to Miami stops) by Sep 1. 

https://www.travelagewest.com/Travel/USA-Canada/brightline-to-orlando

 

Looks like that date will slip.  Hopefully not long:

https://www.gobrightline.com/train-stations/fl/orlando

[aent]

3 hours ago, rolly said:

Looks like that date will slip. 

The date has slipped. They've refunded and offered extras for those who purchased the first 5 days of tickets so far, and stopped sales of tickets for the first 15 days of September, so its looking like a 1-2 week delay right now.

[jrs2]

20 hours ago, rolly said:

This article says Brightline is forecasting an opening of Orlando service (connecting to Miami stops) by Sep 1. 

https://www.travelagewest.com/Travel/USA-Canada/brightline-to-orlando

 

Looks like that date will slip.  Hopefully not long:

https://www.gobrightline.com/train-stations/fl/orlando

I was always skeptical of that service start date for some reason...  welcome!

[shardoon]

Delayed yet again to Sept 21st. 

[jrs2]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:49 AM, shardoon said:

Delayed yet again to Sept 21st. 

They gotta finish those tests…

[shardoon]

New start date confirmed as of yesterday Sept 22nd

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, shardoon said:

New start date confirmed as of yesterday Sept 22nd

 

[codypet]

That's an actual date instead of "early"  and a month.

[dcluley98]

Roaming Railfan put out a promo video with the September 22 official opening date. He works directly with Brightline/FEC to make his videos and has access to info the public doesn't. I would say it is a GO!!!

 

[jrs2]

19 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Roaming Railfan put out a promo video with the September 22 official opening date. He works directly with Brightline/FEC to make his videos and has access to info the public doesn't. I would say it is a GO!!!

 

yeah.  Roaming Railfan is like...really good at these videos.

it's funny.  BL to Orlando will trigger good things for Orlando (and Miami).  Miami has their own thing going on and has been a tourist mecca for a hundred years.  Orlando has been a Disney-centric tourism phenomenon, mainly, until Universal expanded in 1999.  But it's been a slow rollout to Universal being a big draw that took another decade (Harry Potter).  Meanwhile, the building boom in Miami from the early 2000's never really slowed down, to the tune of Miami's skyline literally becoming the third largest in the US, perhaps ahead of Toronto (sans their tallest/ give or take based on categories), and maybe larger than Panama City, Panama ( I haven't checked lately).  But beyond that, Miami has been a retail mecca, luxury retail, and luxury hotels as well, not to mention luxury mansions.

Orlando already has some of that; Disney is a "resort."  Universal has been most recently becoming a "resort."  And there are a lot of other independently or corporately owned resorts.  The OCCC has helped a bit in that department, but, give them their due, Disney has been at the forefront of branding the notion of a resort intertwined with their theme parks; Disney Springs' conversion has really aided in that, as has the successful DVC (Disney Vacation Club), which has really been an impressive sub-category to it's portfolio.  Kudos.

Orlando now has that JW proposal for downtown?! Who would've thought that would ever be a probability?  And Orlando has two JW's already (to compliment Four Seasons, Ritz, Waldorf, Grand Floridian) and also some other major convention-resort properties, like Gaylord Palms and Rosen's Shingle Creek and Hyatt Regency and Hilton Orlando and so on...   Conrad Evermore will be huge when it opens.

Why?  Because I think BL will usher in more demand due to the Miami connection; almost like a sister city.  It will be good.  Maybe even spill over to more companies coming here.  It will be an economic generator.

Port Canaveral- they may open a station in the future.  But PC is already growing even more by signing new cruise company deals.  They may be ranked ahead of PortMiami at present, but that ranking will likely flip flop every year (because PortMiami is renovating some of their terminals (so is Port Everglades)).  Regardless, if BL can do a stop in Cocoa and then do a viable final mile (a few, actually) down 528, that would really be something.

Sunshine Corridor or whatever- What did Dyer say recently, $250M just for the link to MCO? I say get that done at all costs.  The dividends from that will be exponential.  After that, if they can do a deal with BL for a station at OCCC, that would be icing on the cake.  in the absence of that, maybe they just get money for Sunrail to OCCC/Universal and BL and Disney reconcile and they build a civilized station at Diz Springs like originally envisioned.

Either way, it all starts with the beginning of this service on 9-22-23...a real milestone.

[shardoon]

16 hours ago, jrs2 said:

yeah.  Roaming Railfan is like...really good at these videos.

it's funny.  BL to Orlando will trigger good things for Orlando (and Miami).  Miami has their own thing going on and has been a tourist mecca for a hundred years.  Orlando has been a Disney-centric tourism phenomenon, mainly, until Universal expanded in 1999.  But it's been a slow rollout to Universal being a big draw that took another decade (Harry Potter).  Meanwhile, the building boom in Miami from the early 2000's never really slowed down, to the tune of Miami's skyline literally becoming the third largest in the US, perhaps ahead of Toronto (sans their tallest/ give or take based on categories), and maybe larger than Panama City, Panama ( I haven't checked lately).  But beyond that, Miami has been a retail mecca, luxury retail, and luxury hotels as well, not to mention luxury mansions.

Orlando already has some of that; Disney is a "resort."  Universal has been most recently becoming a "resort."  And there are a lot of other independently or corporately owned resorts.  The OCCC has helped a bit in that department, but, give them their due, Disney has been at the forefront of branding the notion of a resort intertwined with their theme parks; Disney Springs' conversion has really aided in that, as has the successful DVC (Disney Vacation Club), which has really been an impressive sub-category to it's portfolio.  Kudos.

Orlando now has that JW proposal for downtown?! Who would've thought that would ever be a probability?  And Orlando has two JW's already (to compliment Four Seasons, Ritz, Waldorf, Grand Floridian) and also some other major convention-resort properties, like Gaylord Palms and Rosen's Shingle Creek and Hyatt Regency and Hilton Orlando and so on...   Conrad Evermore will be huge when it opens.

Why?  Because I think BL will usher in more demand due to the Miami connection; almost like a sister city.  It will be good.  Maybe even spill over to more companies coming here.  It will be an economic generator.

Port Canaveral- they may open a station in the future.  But PC is already growing even more by signing new cruise company deals.  They may be ranked ahead of PortMiami at present, but that ranking will likely flip flop every year (because PortMiami is renovating some of their terminals (so is Port Everglades)).  Regardless, if BL can do a stop in Cocoa and then do a viable final mile (a few, actually) down 528, that would really be something.

Sunshine Corridor or whatever- What did Dyer say recently, $250M just for the link to MCO? I say get that done at all costs.  The dividends from that will be exponential.  After that, if they can do a deal with BL for a station at OCCC, that would be icing on the cake.  in the absence of that, maybe they just get money for Sunrail to OCCC/Universal and BL and Disney reconcile and they build a civilized station at Diz Springs like originally envisioned.

Either way, it all starts with the beginning of this service on 9-22-23...a real milestone.

About that last leg to port canaveral........ I don't think they do it without major state and federal help. They will need to build two large bridges across the river that either open or are extremely tall....... both will be cost prohibitive. 

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, shardoon said:

About that last leg to port canaveral........ I don't think they do it without major state and federal help. They will need to build two large bridges across the river that either open or are extremely tall....... both will be cost prohibitive. 

PC wants a rail connection for freight. They may never get it.  If they did get it, then maybe they could merge BL with it's easement.  Beyond that, I think a BL station would merely be in Cocoa with bussing for the final  3 or so miles (maybe 5?)

[WAJAS]

On 9/15/2023 at 8:48 AM, jrs2 said:

PC wants a rail connection for freight. They may never get it.  If they did get it, then maybe they could merge BL with it's easement.  Beyond that, I think a BL station would merely be in Cocoa with bussing for the final  3 or so miles (maybe 5?)

There was a time when the rail through Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral SFS was being considered for Port Canaveral freight, but there was pushback as it'd be through access controlled areas. No idea what it's status is at this point.

[codypet]

16 hours ago, WAJAS said:

There was a time when the rail through Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral SFS was being considered for Port Canaveral freight, but there was pushback as it'd be through access controlled areas. No idea what it's status is at this point.

I noticed this in google Earth and it made me sad to see this basically confirmed. 

"By 2016, much of the trackage along the East Leg as well as in the KSC Industrial Area had been pulled up and was presumably scrapped, while the majority of trackage along the West Leg was left in place and simply taken out of service."

[aent]

Reason has released a video about how Brightline compared to Californias HSR

 

[Ivanhoe]

California, despite the blunders, will have the first true HSR in the US.

Brightline is the Elon Musk of rail. 
There is no reason to believe that Brightline will not  be absorbed into Amtrak or another govt funded body within a few years.

Rail, like your roads, cannot be privatized. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Ivanhoe

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

California, despite the blunders, will have the first true HSR in the US.

Brightline is the Elon Musk of rail. 
There is no reason to believe that Brightline will not  be absorbed into Amtrak or another govt funded body within a few years.

Rail, like your roads, cannot be privatized. 

what's your basis for that?

[cubanbread]

3 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

California, despite the blunders, will have the first true HSR in the US.

Brightline is the Elon Musk of rail. 
There is no reason to believe that Brightline will not  be absorbed into Amtrak or another govt funded body within a few years.

Rail, like your roads, cannot be privatized. 

I see you guys have contrarians on your board as well.  They're always a fun bunch. 

[Ivanhoe]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

what's your basis for that?

History. 

While I like the idea of privatized rail, Brightline is already bleeding and seeking government handouts.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

California, despite the blunders, will have the first true HSR in the US.

Brightline is the Elon Musk of rail. 
There is no reason to believe that Brightline will not  be absorbed into Amtrak or another govt funded body within a few years.

Rail, like your roads, cannot be privatized. 

Technically, CA will have one station on the edge of San Bernardino which is on the eastern edge of the LA metro.  Then that line immediately exits the populated area en route to Las Vegas.  Who benefits from that, exactly?  The answer is I-15 Vegas-bound traffic LEAVING and ENTERING the state.  So, who has the HSR, CA or Nevada?  Technically the California desert outside of LA and Las Vegas both have it. 

This would be like Jacksonville having an HSR station at their airport, with the line heading NW to The ATL, and then people marketing it as "Florida's HSR."   How does Florida benefit from that? It would also be like an HSR line connecting Hammond, IN, to Pittsburg.  Does Illinois really benefit from that just because Hammond technically is part of Chicagoland?  No.  Illinois benefits from it when HSR connects Chicago to Springfield and/or St. Louis ala E. St. Louis, which is still in IL.

So, the statement should be as follows:

"I-15, despite the $110B blunders of the High Speed Rail Act elsewhere in California, will benefit slightly from reduced traffic, from San Bernardino's outskirts to Las Vegas, from the first true HSR in the US built and managed by a private Florida company."

And, your comment about rail not being able to being privatized...last I checked, both CSX and FEC own their tracks.  And, Brightline  is a private train on a privately owned track (FEC) and easement.  And so far, Brightline between Miami and W. Palm is profitable. 

So?

20 minutes ago, cubanbread said:

I see you guys have contrarians on your board as well.  They're always a fun bunch. 

...boatloads of fun, bruddah...LOL.

what's the Good word from Tampa Bay?  I hear the Rays have a new proposal for St. Pete (which was posted here under the Orlando Dreamers thread).

[cubanbread]

7 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

what's the Good word from Tampa Bay?  I hear the Rays have a new proposal for St. Pete (which was posted here under the Orlando Dreamers thread).

We're still waiting to hear Brightline announce where the Tampa station is going to be.  Over on Skyscraper City we've been able to deduce that the Marion Transit Center in Downtown Tampa is probably the most likely location. 
There's a developer in Ybor who has had discussions with Brightline but we know Brightline wants to own the land so they can develop around it,  so while there's space and Ybor is a great urban location, the Ybor developer, Daryl Shaw, has already started to build out his GasWorx  project so it just seems less likely now. The Marion Transit Center location was where the original 2010 station was going to be.

As for the Rays, there still needs to be a final vote by county commissioners and the city of St. Pete but it's basically a done deal, all of them were in attendance at the announcement many of them spoke. It's a pretty big deal, a lot of people thought they should have moved to Tampa but St. Pete has moved past playing little brother to Tampa. The new park is going to be part of a massive mixed-use development that's going to take up the entire Tropicana field site, it will be equivalent to  The Battery in Atlanta, maybe even a little bigger with the benefit of it being in the urban core and not in the burbs like Atlanta's development. 

People, rightly so, dislike the fact that any public money is going towards a sports stadium, but The Rays are chipping in over 600 million and again the whole development is just such a big deal that I think it offsets the negative.  Right now the land directly around the trop is just a massive parking lot while the rest of St. Pete is booming, so to fill that gap in with a dense, walkable community is a big deal. 

[jrs2]

31 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

History. 

While I like the idea of privatized rail, Brightline is already bleeding and seeking government handouts.

https://www.hsrail.org/blog/brightline-west-receives-bipartisan-support-for-federal-funding-request/

are you talking about this?

that's a far cry from "bleeding."

Meanwhile, the Miami to Palm Beach leg is and has been profitable.  I have also spoken to professionals I know in Miami and they tell me that train is packed with attorneys and the like going back and forth between counties for hearings, depositions, trials, etc., let alone other professionals.

https://www.thenextmiami.com/demand-for-brightline-so-high-that-it-just-earned-a-south-segment-profit-never-really-intended/

I don't own stock in Brightline; their success or California's failures.  I don't waste time with that fanboyism; I just deal in facts as best as we can tell.  My number one concern is that Brightline is successful to Orlando because it will raise Orlando's clout in the world marketplace in its connection with Miami.  I think Orlando benefits more than Miami does.

The key for Orlando is to connect Sunrail to MCO.  Then, you will have two Florida metros, both with CRT, connected by higher speed 125mph intercity rail.  California, by comparison, will never have even this.  They should have this, but likely never will.