Brightline Trains

[codypet]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

wow. they were using CSX ROW part of the way?  CSX had something to do with it's nixing, I guarantee you.  Just like Obama-rail and FEC, I bet you CSX was developing their modernization plan and needed The State to subsidize or pay for it and that's when Mica came up with the CSX/Sunrail deal.  If Lynx would have merely been on that easement, they wouldn't have seen the need (The State) from buying the mainline track from CSX in exchange for modernizing the other track to the west and giving $$$ for the intermodal center in Winter Haven.

Boom.  Geraldo just opened up Capone's basement.

Yea I don't recall that at all.  They couldn't share trackage due to FRA requirements, so I'm surprised there's enough R/W there to accommodate LRT on separate tracks.  I do recall a rendering down the center of I-4 west of JYP and in Altamonte as well.  I guess is must have run down I4's median until OBT then joined up with CSX just north of Michigan and popped out north of WP (presumably near Lee Rd.)  You're probably right about the CSX deal.

Edited June 9, 2023 by codypet

[jrs2]

44 minutes ago, codypet said:

Yea I don't recall that at all.  They couldn't share trackage due to FRA requirements, so I'm surprised there's enough R/W there to accommodate LRT on separate tracks.  I do recall a rendering down the center of I-4 west of JYP and in Altamonte as well.  I guess is must have run down I4's median until OBT then joined up with CSX just north of Michigan and popped out north of WP (presumably near Lee Rd.)  You're probably right about the CSX deal.

 

[jliv]

22 hours ago, codypet said:

Yea I don't recall that at all.  They couldn't share trackage due to FRA requirements, so I'm surprised there's enough R/W there to accommodate LRT on separate tracks.  I do recall a rendering down the center of I-4 west of JYP and in Altamonte as well.  I guess is must have run down I4's median until OBT then joined up with CSX just north of Michigan and popped out north of WP (presumably near Lee Rd.)  You're probably right about the CSX deal.

I seem to recall there was a lot of resistance from CSX in the late 90's with running light rail on the same right of way as freight trains, unless the state invested in a bypass option for its freight traffic.   The compromise was to run a single track on the right of way, but by then the plan started losing steam with Orange County and lost its support.   I was always puzzled by that light rail route; now that FDOT owns the CSX right-of-way through Orange County and the urban route has been double-tracked for SunRail, the need for a North-South light rail line is rendered moot.  Makes more sense to upgrade the system with electrification and elevated tracks to bypass the high-traffic intersections.

Edited June 10, 2023 by jliv

[shardoon]

Well this wasn't thought through too well.......can't help but think that representative in St. Lucie continues to hold sour grapes over the whole brightline service.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/06/10/brightline-service-from-south-florida-to-orlando-could-be-cut-in-half-under-coast-guard-plan-for-st-lucie-river-drawbridge/

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

Well this wasn't thought through too well.......can't help but think that representative in St. Lucie continues to hold sour grapes over the whole brightline service.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/06/10/brightline-service-from-south-florida-to-orlando-could-be-cut-in-half-under-coast-guard-plan-for-st-lucie-river-drawbridge/

Man, what a cluster. That was a long article.  Keeping the bridge up by default vs keeping it down by default. But they said the testing period is only temporary...

[aent]

12 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Man, what a cluster. That was a long article.  Keeping the bridge up by default vs keeping it down by default. But they said the testing period is only temporary...

Temporary for 6 months.... I can't imagine it lasting very long if FEC actually stops a 2.5 mile train in any downtown in that area, the people in cars far outnumber boaters and will be pissed if the freight trains are ordered to stop, even entirely ignoring Brightline.

[codypet]

23 hours ago, shardoon said:

Well this wasn't thought through too well.......can't help but think that representative in St. Lucie continues to hold sour grapes over the whole brightline service.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/06/10/brightline-service-from-south-florida-to-orlando-could-be-cut-in-half-under-coast-guard-plan-for-st-lucie-river-drawbridge/

FNAA  is still out there pushing opposition since they didn't get a station.

9 hours ago, aent said:

Temporary for 6 months.... I can't imagine it lasting very long if FEC actually stops a 2.5 mile train in any downtown in that area, the people in cars far outnumber boaters and will be pissed if the freight trains are ordered to stop, even entirely ignoring Brightline.

Yea, forget it.  I know the boat people have been screaming, but I know you're gonna have people screaming at their commissioners the first rush hour train blocks all the roads downtown.

[jrs2]

28 minutes ago, codypet said:

FNAA  is still out there pushing opposition since they didn't get a station.

Yea, forget it.  I know the boat people have been screaming, but I know you're gonna have people screaming at their commissioners the first rush hour train blocks all the roads downtown.

in that article they even allude to Port St Lucie not having a station.  As soon as I read that, I thought that they were pushing this stuff to influence then to build a station there.

[jgardnerucf]

What's the bridge heads up time vs mph on approach?     Yikes.

[jrs2]

12 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

What's the bridge heads up time vs mph on approach?     Yikes.

maybe they need to replace it with a high rise bridge.  In Daytona, SR 40, US 92, Dunlawton, and Seabreeze Bridges were all replaced with high rise bridges.  Silver Beach and Main St. remained draw bridges.  Sunrail has the CSX draw Bridge of the St. John's in Sanford to contend with...not very busy though comparatively.

[codypet]

Trains can't climb up steep grades like cars can so a high rise bridge won't work for them.  They might get away with a drawbridge that's like 8'  instead of 4' or something.

[jrs2]

https://www.wqcs.org/wqcs-news/2023-06-14/brightline-to-celebrate-completion-of-construction-on-the-orlando-rail-extension-on-june-21

Brightline to Celebrate Completion of Construction on the Orlando Rail Extension on June 21

[codypet]

 

Didn't they do that back in Jan?

[aent]

On 6/15/2023 at 4:53 PM, codypet said:

Didn't they do that back in Jan?

I think January was the celebration of the completion of the "new" segment of track from the existing FEC line to MCO. This celebration is the completion of upgrades and double tracking of the existing FEC line (mostly, work is still in progress on a few crossing upgrades I believe).

 

In other news, the Tri Rail will begin testing the new tracks and station in Brightline's downtown MiamiCentral station on Monday. Tri Rail is expected to launch the service very late this year.

Once that launches, it paves the way for further extending the Tri Rail/commuter rail in South Florida along the FEC/Brightline tracks back up the east coast, eventually making a loop of the Tri Rail system, having a set of coastal/east spots on top of the existing "west" of I-95 line. Tri Rail is negotiating to eventually have about 24 additional stations (although most if not all Brightline stations will service as Tri-Rail transfer stations, so 5 are already built) running from Jupiter to Miami along the FEC, which should mean trains can bring you closer to your destination with a transfer.

This was also supposed to open 5 years ago and the trains are already full, so it will be interesting to see what this pushes ticket prices up to once it launches. Brightline needs to receive its next order of trainsets fast.

https://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2023/06/16/tri-rail-may-soon-come-to-brightline-station-miami.html

 

[Poe Tempkin]

23 hours ago, aent said:

In other news, the Tri Rail will begin testing the new tracks and station in Brightline's downtown MiamiCentral station on Monday. Tri Rail is expected to launch the service very late this year.

Once that launches, it paves the way for further extending the Tri Rail/commuter rail in South Florida along the FEC/Brightline tracks back up the east coast, eventually making a loop of the Tri Rail system, having a set of coastal/east spots on top of the existing "west" of I-95 line. Tri Rail is negotiating to eventually have about 24 additional stations (although most if not all Brightline stations will service as Tri-Rail transfer stations, so 5 are already built) running from Jupiter to Miami along the FEC, which should mean trains can bring you closer to your destination with a transfer.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see this "loop" approach coming together. I've always assumed Tri Rail Coastal Link (or whatever the FEC service would eventually be called) would not connect the two tracks and would compete for funding with the western line.

[Alleri459]

On 6/17/2023 at 9:45 PM, aent said:

In other news, the Tri Rail will begin testing the new tracks and station in Brightline's downtown MiamiCentral station on Monday. Tri Rail is expected to launch the service very late this year.

Once that launches, it paves the way for further extending the Tri Rail/commuter rail in South Florida along the FEC/Brightline tracks back up the east coast, eventually making a loop of the Tri Rail system, having a set of coastal/east spots on top of the existing "west" of I-95 line. Tri Rail is negotiating to eventually have about 24 additional stations (although most if not all Brightline stations will service as Tri-Rail transfer stations, so 5 are already built) running from Jupiter to Miami along the FEC, which should mean trains can bring you closer to your destination with a transfer.

This was also supposed to open 5 years ago and the trains are already full, so it will be interesting to see what this pushes ticket prices up to once it launches. Brightline needs to receive its next order of trainsets fast.

https://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2023/06/16/tri-rail-may-soon-come-to-brightline-station-miami.html

 

This will do well especially in Miami-Dade County where there aren't very many tri-rail stops and cover the eastern portion with higher density(this could very easily warrant actual heavy rail, but i digress).  If we can figure out the Sunrail to airport connection it will be pretty impressive to have two Florida major metros connected with airport connections and their city centers!

[codypet]

12 hours ago, Poe Tempkin said:

I'm pleasantly surprised to see this "loop" approach coming together. I've always assumed Tri Rail Coastal Link (or whatever the FEC service would eventually be called) would not connect the two tracks and would compete for funding with the western line.

A bunch of tracks between the lines were physically connected in 2018/2019 in Miami and WPB.  So the connection was there.  Now its down to scheduling and operations.

[aent]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

A bunch of tracks between the lines were physically connected in 2018/2019 in Miami and WPB.  So the connection was there.  Now its down to scheduling and operations.

And constructing stations. Its my understanding there is no funding for the entire route, so this was the first piece, the next phases for Tri-Rail Coastal service are supposed to be to add 5 new Tri-Rail stations on each end (depending on when Palm Beach County and Dade County fund them), and it won't loop until another 15 or so are built that currently have no funding plan

[jrs2]

17 hours ago, aleonrivera said:

This will do well especially in Miami-Dade County where there aren't very many tri-rail stops and cover the eastern portion with higher density(this could very easily warrant actual heavy rail, but i digress).  If we can figure out the Sunrail to airport connection it will be pretty impressive to have two Florida major metros connected with airport connections and their city centers!

MetroRail is mainly elevated and cha-ching.  I don't know if they have a plan for MetroRail to go much farther than it currently does.  In Chicago, the "El" goes out to O'Hare and Midway; METRA takes care of the rest of outlying ridership, and METRA is pretty extensive.  It looks like Miami follows the Chicago model.  Why not, they're also a Burnham Plan city...

[jgardnerucf]

Thar she blows!

Taken now, 11am, 6/20 heading East from MCO.

[leondecollao]

I think people are still vastly underestimating the big deal this could be…..I was at MCO two days ago and all American Airlines flights were delayed or cancelled, including two direct flights to Miami. People were literally sitting at the airport for HOURS waiting for a flight after security for a trip that is just a 3.5 hour drive.  All of them appeared to be well to do foreign tourists that were flying for the “convenience”. There’s a market for this rail. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by leondecollao

[shardoon]

34 minutes ago, leondecollao said:

I think people are still vastly underestimating the big deal this could be…..I was at MCO two days ago and all American Airlines flights were delayed or cancelled, including two direct flights to Miami. People were literally sitting at the airport for HOURS waiting for a flight after security for a trip that is just a 3.5 hour drive.  All of them appeared to be well to do foreign tourists that were flying for the “convenience”. There’s a market for this rail. 

There was severe weather in Miami/FLL area and about 30 plus flights were diverted to MCO. We had BA 380's parked at terminal C along with airlines we wished serviced MCO such as ITA, LOT etc. 

[jrs2]

there is literally no news on Brightline this past few weeks.  no new deaths...I think the next news will be any media release showing how booked the train is before starting service...

[jrs2]

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/brightline-testing-at-110-mph-scheduled-in-three-florida-counties/

 

[jrs2]

I'm not sure if this is the proper thread to place this in, but LYNX voted to build a bus intermodal facility at the Intermodal Center (or near it) at MCO:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2023/07/28/lynx-orlando-international-airport.html