Brightline Trains

[aent]

4 hours ago, jack said:

Brightline owns their own tracks, no? Sunrail's is owned by our government but don't they connect to CSX's? 

They are not interested because the price will go up and limit working class people from riding it. And they want to control it regardless that FEC could run it better. 

But they barely operating it. Working class people can't ride a train that barely operates, and if it doesn't operate most of the time, nobody ever thinks to use it when it does. Sunrail ridership is downright embarrassing. South Florida seems ready to let Brightline operate the east coast line of their commuter rail. Also, Sunrail could still own it and set prices, just let Brightline operate it

[jack]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

CSX sold their mainline track to FDOT, right?

the BL track at MCO does connect to CSX to the west.  that's where those train sets come in from...

If so, I don't see why not they could not eventually get to BL taking it over.

1 hour ago, aent said:

But they barely operating it. Working class people can't ride a train that barely operates, and if it doesn't operate most of the time, nobody ever thinks to use it when it does. Sunrail ridership is downright embarrassing. South Florida seems ready to let Brightline operate the east coast line of their commuter rail. Also, Sunrail could still own it and set prices, just let Brightline operate it

It is also was federally funded and may have restrictions. 

In theory, all of this can be worked out if the state and local officials can make a deal. And I really mean Orange County and Orlando. I do not see them getting on board unless something drastic happens. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by jack

[aent]

The Orlando airport station is now complete and ready for trains. Here's a tour of the inside:

The trains should be about 60-90 days from starting service from what I'm hearing if testing goes well.

[aent]

Brightline has announced prices. Tickets start at $79 for the cheapest one way ticket, a family 4 pack will start at $199 one way

Weekday schedule:

• Hourly southbound departures from Orlando to Miami starting at 5:00 a.m. until 8:50 p.m.

• First southbound train from Orlando arrives in Miami at 8:30 a.m.

• Hourly northbound departures from Miami to Orlando starting at 6:50 a.m. until 9:45 p.m.
• First northbound train from Miami arrives in Orlando at 10:15 a.m.

Weekend Schedule:

• Hourly southbound departures from Orlando to Miami starting at 5:00 a.m. until 8:50 p.m.
• First southbound train from Orlando arrives in Miami at 8:30 a.m.

• Hourly northbound departures from Miami to Orlando starting at 5:45 a.m. until 9:45 p.m.
• First northbound train from Miami arrives in Orlando at 9:15 a.m.

.Tickets go on sale next month

[Uncommon]

9 hours ago, aent said:

Brightline has announced prices. Tickets start at $79 for the cheapest one way ticket, a family 4 pack will start at $199 one way

Weekday schedule:

• Hourly southbound departures from Orlando to Miami starting at 5:00 a.m. until 8:50 p.m.

• First southbound train from Orlando arrives in Miami at 8:30 a.m.

• Hourly northbound departures from Miami to Orlando starting at 6:50 a.m. until 9:45 p.m.
• First northbound train from Miami arrives in Orlando at 10:15 a.m.

Weekend Schedule:

• Hourly southbound departures from Orlando to Miami starting at 5:00 a.m. until 8:50 p.m.
• First southbound train from Orlando arrives in Miami at 8:30 a.m.

• Hourly northbound departures from Miami to Orlando starting at 5:45 a.m. until 9:45 p.m.
• First northbound train from Miami arrives in Orlando at 9:15 a.m.

.Tickets go on sale next month

Very excited! Will definitely check it out in June!

[shardoon]

2 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Very excited! Will definitely check it out in June!

Those tickets better include bags with no extra fees or else quite honestly, it's getting more expensive than flying. 

[aent]

34 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Those tickets better include bags with no extra fees or else quite honestly, it's getting more expensive than flying. 

2 carry ons are included, checked bags are $10

Someone on reddit made this table (they underestimated the cost of driving, only including gas, and not accounting for vehicle maintenance, such as brakes, oil, tires, depreciation, etc, the IRS rate would say driving is $155)

we'll look at one-way fares for Friday, June 30.

Mode	Cost for solo traveler	Cost for family of 4	Notes
Driving	$42	$42	237 miles downtown to downtown via Turnpike, 30 MPG at $3.50/gal
RedCoach (luxury bus)	$25	$100	First class Miami to Orlando, 1 carry-on bag and 2 checked bags included, additional checked bags start at $25/bag
Flixbus/Greyhound (budget bus)	$35	$140	Downtown Miami/Miami airport to International Drive/Orlando airport, 1 carry-on bag and 1 checked bag included, additional checked bags start at $20/bag
Amtrak (standard train)	$39	$156	Miami station to Orlando station, 2 carry-on bags and 2 checked bags included, additional checked bags start at $20/bag
Spirit Airlines (budget airline)	$57	$228	FLL-MCO, no baggage included, checked bags start at $54/bag
Brightline (luxury train)	$79	$199	Smart class downtown Miami to Orlando airport, 2 carry-on bags included, checked bags start at $10/bag
Delta Air Lines (full service airline)	$114	$456	MIA-MCO, 1 carry-on bag included, checked bags start at $30/bag
Hertz (rental car)	$146	$146	$104 one way compact car rental MIA-MCO plus cost of driving

 

[codypet]

The luxury bus is more expensive than the budget bus?

I assume the $42 is including the tolls.

Also I saw Spirit was to FLL

I'd love to see a time comparison too.  I feel like there's a lost time cost that should be part of this table that's lost when you're just comparing fare structures.

I know Brightline did a lot of work in determining their fare structure so it doesn't surprise me is slots in where is does.  Also did I hear them right that the luxury class includes unlimited drinks?  I knew early on it was going to include drinks, but I didn't think open bar.

[shardoon]

10 minutes ago, codypet said:

The luxury bus is more expensive than the budget bus?

I assume the $42 is including the tolls.

Also I saw Spirit was to FLL

I'd love to see a time comparison too.  I feel like there's a lost time cost that should be part of this table that's lost when you're just comparing fare structures.

I know Brightline did a lot of work in determining their fare structure so it doesn't surprise me is slots in where is does.  Also did I hear them right that the luxury class includes unlimited drinks?  I knew early on it was going to include drinks, but I didn't think open bar.

Typically I just go with my wife to Miami for a long weekend with 2 checked bags. Comparing tolls, gas, parking etc....will probably use it because the extra $100  is worth it for me not having to drive and get dumped off a $5 to $10 uber ride to Brickell. That may not be the case for other people. 

Also, I've gotten $79 fares one way on AA. Obviously there are added fees and time. 

However, I get that brightline is trying to make money on their couple billion dollar investment.......but fuel is nowhere near what an airplane uses. Airlines have to pay billions for infrastructure too, including airport fees and the cost of operating the airplanes, maintenence, and the actual airplanes themselves....... which I'll go on a limb and say is much more expensive than brightline costs of operating. How they are similarly priced is beyond me......just saying. 

Also, for about $30 to 40 more per leg compared to brightline premium, you can fly a jet essentially private from Orlando using JSX out of the private terminal. I've done it before and it was amazing. Arrive 20 min before flight. Two check bags included and unlimited drinks. You then arrive 30 to 40 min later in the MIA private terminal, sit on the plane 2 min while they unload your bags while you order an uber, pick up bags at plane stairs and walk out to the waiting uber. 

[codypet]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

Typically I just go with my wife to Miami for a long weekend with 2 checked bags. Comparing tolls, gas, parking etc....will probably use it because the extra $100  is worth it for me not having to drive and get dumped off a $5 to $10 uber ride to Brickell. That may not be the case for other people. 

Also, I've gotten $79 fares one way on AA. Obviously there are added fees and time. 

However, I get that brightline is trying to make money on their couple billion dollar investment.......but fuel is nowhere near what an airplane uses. Airlines have to pay billions for infrastructure too, including airport fees and the cost of operating the airplanes, maintenence, and the actual airplanes themselves....... which I'll go on a limb and say is much more expensive than brightline costs of operating. How they are similarly priced is beyond me......just saying. 

Also, for about $30 to 40 more per leg compared to brightline premium, you can fly a jet essentially private from Orlando using JSX out of the private terminal. I've done it before and it was amazing. Arrive 20 min before flight. Two check bags included and unlimited drinks. You then arrive 30 to 40 min later in the MIA private terminal, sit on the plane 2 min while they unload your bags while you order an uber, pick up bags at plane stairs and walk out to the waiting uber. 

There's also the cost of the trains, the land lease for the SR 528 section and the airport facility, the construction infrastructure costs for the whole system.  Then there's the cost of the future expansion plans.

[aent]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

However, I get that brightline is trying to make money on their couple billion dollar investment.......but fuel is nowhere near what an airplane uses. Airlines have to pay billions for infrastructure too, including airport fees and the cost of operating the airplanes, maintenence, and the actual airplanes themselves....... which I'll go on a limb and say is much more expensive than brightline costs of operating. How they are similarly priced is beyond me......just saying. 

 

I think its also important to remember is this is just the base list price for Brightline. They've already said they'll have family packs that are at $50/ticket from Orlando. They currently have a sale for 25% off all tickets with a promo code, and for frequent users, the commuter pass is basically 40 tickets that must be used within a month for 50% off. The goal, much like the airlines, is to fill the trains. So far, they've been doing that very successfully... the biggest factor for the prices being as high as they are is lack of capacity, and badly need additional passenger cars. They've already taken cars off the new trainsets to make them longer, but I don't know how much they'll have to reduce that by once the Orlando service launches.

[shardoon]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

There's also the cost of the trains, the land lease for the SR 528 section and the airport facility, the construction infrastructure costs for the whole system.  Then there's the cost of the future expansion plans.

Still a lot less than the costs that the airlines have to put up with. I was really hoping for a basic fare to be $49. It shouldn't only come down to that if traveling with 4 or more or buying in bulk. I did not know about the current sale that is expected, so I will definitely check that out. 

[Alleri459]

I find it interesting so many are comparing spirit fares which are to Ft Lauderdale and not Miami. The $79 base fare mentioned is to Downtown Miami. I would assume the fares would be less to get to the stations before (W. Palm, Boca, Ft L, Aventura). So if your goal is to get to Miami, are you flying to Ft Lauderdale/Hollywood hoping there are no delays, and then you uber the additional hour or more it will take you with traffic that will probably cost $50 to $70. 

I am interested in seeing what the fare structure will be to the other stations. The pent up collective excitement on all areas of social media is making so many over analyze all this it is actually quite funny.  I do think it will prove to be popular in the end, 16 trains a day provides a lot of flexibility as well. 

[HankStrong]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:40 PM, HankStrong said:

It's roughly 4 hours from MCO to MIA on a normal day.  The train is supposed to take just over 3 hours and you should save an hour each way.  Even if it takes 4 hours and there is no difference on time, there is a difference in experience.  You don't have to drive.  You don't have to fight traffic.  You don't have to pay $30 in tolls.  You don't have to buy $50-$100 in gas.  You don't have to put 450 miles of wear on your car.  Some people's daily driver is limited (in trust) to local commutes and they would never drive it out of town voluntarily, so they rent a vehicle if they travel by car.  

I understand that for some people, the dollar is going to always be the deciding factor.  If you are poor, there are often few luxuries that are worth it.  My grandparents chose the luxury of nice toilet paper.  It didn't matter how bad things got, their butts were soft.

While I appreciate that the creator of that table says driving to Miami is $42, that's not completely true.  Every trip you take is wear & tear on your car.  If you have reached a station in life where wear & tear doesn't factor into your driving, then $79 for a train ticket likely isn't a concern either.  The Standard Mileage Rate established by the IRS gives a fixed rate per mile of $0.655.  This is supposed to factor in gas, maintenance, and wear & tear.  This is supposed to reflect an accurate amount of what each mile should cost in a variable gas price market.  Using the 237 miles they used that actually says the true cost of that trip would be $155 plus about $15 for tolls or $170.  However, I realized the $42 they list is what you actually pull out of your pocket for this trip and may be all that matters to someone.

For me, the ease of getting on the train and riding is a big draw.  I have made this trip many, many times and have experienced so many problems.  Traffic completely stopped, the turnpike shut down, crazy road rage drivers, poor weather causing accidents, general frustration, ill-timed pee breaks from people in the car with me, and the list could go on forever.  I'm fine getting on a train, sitting down, playing on my phone or tablet, and arriving rested at my destination.

[codypet]

48 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

For me, the ease of getting on the train and riding is a big draw.  I have made this trip many, many times and have experienced so many problems.  Traffic completely stopped, the turnpike shut down, crazy road rage drivers, poor weather causing accidents, general frustration, ill-timed pee breaks from people in the car with me, and the list could go on forever.  I'm fine getting on a train, sitting down, playing on my phone or tablet, and arriving rested at my destination.

Rested or loose from a few drinks and having had as many potty breaks as you may need.  All wins.  Beats having to eat at Earl of Sandwhich at one of the Turnpike's service plazas.

[shardoon]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

Rested or loose from a few drinks and having had as many potty breaks as you may need.  All wins.  Beats having to eat at Earl of Sandwhich at one of the Turnpike's service plazas.

Ohhhh.....the service plaza's. I always try to get an Auntie Anne's........ but then I show up and they are closed....... so much disappointment, but I fall for it every time I see the sign LOL. 

[FLClarkKent]

5 hours ago, HankStrong said:

For me, the ease of getting on the train and riding is a big draw.  I have made this trip many, many times and have experienced so many problems.  Traffic completely stopped, the turnpike shut down, crazy road rage drivers, poor weather causing accidents, general frustration, ill-timed pee breaks from people in the car with me, and the list could go on forever.  I'm fine getting on a train, sitting down, playing on my phone or tablet, and arriving rested at my destination.

I’m not familiar with where the Brightline station is located in Miami. Is it near a people mover and/or Metro station? If so, that would help eliminate the need for having a car or calling an Uber/Lyft/taxi. Of course, if you’re going to South Beach or the cruise terminal, you’ll need to find a way there. That’s one of the things that doesn’t have me quite as sold on Brightline. 

[codypet]

1 hour ago, FLClarkKent said:

I’m not familiar with where the Brightline station is located in Miami. Is it near a people mover and/or Metro station? If so, that would help eliminate the need for having a car or calling an Uber/Lyft/taxi. Of course, if you’re going to South Beach or the cruise terminal, you’ll need to find a way there. That’s one of the things that doesn’t have me quite as sold on Brightline. 

Tri-Rail will soon be using the BL station for downtown Miami, so that links you up with everything Tri-Rail Serves.  The Metro Mover I believe is on the same block as the BL station.  The Metro Rail is right next door.  I'm unsure if there's a direct connect from the BL lobby to the MetroRail.

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, FLClarkKent said:

I’m not familiar with where the Brightline station is located in Miami. Is it near a people mover and/or Metro station? If so, that would help eliminate the need for having a car or calling an Uber/Lyft/taxi. Of course, if you’re going to South Beach or the cruise terminal, you’ll need to find a way there. That’s one of the things that doesn’t have me quite as sold on Brightline. 

It's Miami Central Station (NW 1st Ave & NW 6th St).

It's under construction (or was the last time I was there) to be a true multi-modal hub.  Brightline, Tri-Rail, Metrorail, Metromover, buses, cabs, Lyft, Uber, etc. all in one place.  

 

I'm not 100% on this, but I believe the Metrorail only stopped at Lyric Theatre & Government Center last time I was there.  Central Station was in the middle of those two and about a block from each.  If I read correctly, it's going to eventually be connected.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, FLClarkKent said:

I’m not familiar with where the Brightline station is located in Miami. Is it near a people mover and/or Metro station? If so, that would help eliminate the need for having a car or calling an Uber/Lyft/taxi. Of course, if you’re going to South Beach or the cruise terminal, you’ll need to find a way there. That’s one of the things that doesn’t have me quite as sold on Brightline. 

Until Metromover direct connects to Miami Central Station, Metrorail connects with Metromover within the BOA/Centrust Tower...

[aent]

4 hours ago, FLClarkKent said:

I’m not familiar with where the Brightline station is located in Miami. Is it near a people mover and/or Metro station? If so, that would help eliminate the need for having a car or calling an Uber/Lyft/taxi. Of course, if you’re going to South Beach or the cruise terminal, you’ll need to find a way there. That’s one of the things that doesn’t have me quite as sold on Brightline. 

Brightline also offers free shuttle service that I believe hits the airport and cruise terminals from the Miami station and some other local attractions, leaving 10 minutes after each train arrives at the station. If you do the premium service, they will also Uber you to any destination within 5 miles of the station as part of the experience.

[prahaboheme]

If and when a Cocoa Beach station arrives, I’d imagine they will offer Port Canaveral shuttle service also.

[WAJAS]

9 hours ago, FLClarkKent said:

I’m not familiar with where the Brightline station is located in Miami. Is it near a people mover and/or Metro station? If so, that would help eliminate the need for having a car or calling an Uber/Lyft/taxi. Of course, if you’re going to South Beach or the cruise terminal, you’ll need to find a way there. That’s one of the things that doesn’t have me quite as sold on Brightline. 

There is a short bridge from Miami Central (Brightline and future Tri-Rail service) to Civic Center Station (Metromover, Metrobus, Metrorail). This is a direct building-to-building bridge, so no need to go down to ground level. There's also a free Uber/Lyft within some radius of the station to your final destination included in your Premium ticket. Free shuttles to the airports and cruise terminals along the route are also available for every passenger.

That future Tri-Rail service to Miami Central is expected Fall 2023 with Tri-Rail Coastal Link, a new parallel Tri-Rail line closer to the coast and through more downtown areas throughout South Florida that will be operated by Brightline, joining it sometime around 2024/2025.

[shardoon]

Metromover is already in the planning stages of expanding to South Beach. What I didn't know is that further down the pipeline, they have Wynwood and the Design District with Mid Town in mind. 

https://www.thenextmiami.com/metromover-to-miami-beach-expected-to-open-in-2028-or-2029/

[HankStrong]

12 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

If and when a Cocoa Beach station arrives, I’d imagine they will offer Port Canaveral shuttle service also.

Cocoa & DeLand.  It's sad they were so opposed to their respective train systems when they first began.