Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[dubone]

There is a new rash of insulting Charlotte, N. C., crap to wade through.  Example:

"The combined carrier will have considerable presence in New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Charlotte, N.C., Miami, Chicago, Dallas, Phoenix and Los Angeles."  

[LKN704]

Hopefully this will fast-track BA's reentry into the CLT market, I just hope that LH doesn't leave.

 

I also hope that this means UA will start CLTSFO.

[modernurbanity]

Still saying N.C. after Charlotte, huh? People still view it as a small city it seems like. I can't tell you how many times I've heard transplants on Charlotte's local news say that Charlotte is still a small city. I wonder sometimes if it's because of Charlottesville, Va. I've heard people confuse the two before.

 

*Incidentally, does anyone know why I cannot quote anymore? I click the quote button but it doesn't work...

[ScottCLT]

Unfortunately, the main reason NC still exists in journalism is because of the Associated Press stylebook. Only 30 cities in the US are "correctly" able to be cited as standalone city names:

 

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/735/02/ (about 3/4 the way down)

 

There was a Twitter campaign to the AP to #DropTheNC last year before the Democratic National Convention.

[allthingsplanes]

The fact is, as much as I don't want to admit it, Charlotte is still a small city by many metrics.  Our metropolitan area is #25 in the US - smaller than San Diego, Portland, Orlando, and Sacramento (though I know in the last year we are close to passing one or two of these).  Right behind us are Kansas City, Salt Lake City, and Columbus.  So we are a small city, by comparison to many others.  BUT, we are growing faster than many and within the next 10 years will likely be higher up the rankings.

 

Furthermore, speaking strictly of the airport, our airport is MUCH, MUCH bigger relative to our city size than any other in the US.  That's important for us to consider as we look at things like this merger, but the good thing is that no one with a brain believes that the airport will be downsized much if any.  

 

We should be proud of our city (I've only been here 5 years but have a lot of pride in the city), and want to ensure that we keep growing in a meaningful way (such as continuing to fill in uptown).  At some point, everyone will know about Charlotte! 

[MilZ]

Right behind us are Kansas City, Salt Lake City, and Columbus.  

 

You mean Kansas City, KS, Salt Lake City, UT, and Columbus, OH.

 

Now I feel better.

[tozmervo]

...not Kansas City, MO? 

[15895]

You mean Kansas City, KS, Salt Lake City, UT, and Columbus, OH.

Now I feel better.

Yeah!

Oh, and Atlanta, GA. Smaller than CLT.

(just having fun with Statistics, I obviously know how big the Metro ATL area is....)

[MilZ]

...not Kansas City, MO? 

SEE!

[kickazzz2000]

The bashing never ends from MAH4546

 

The concerns of serious degrading of AA product are unfounded, although I'm sure some things will be gone like in every merger. 

US failed to offer things like IFE and meals in first class because it's network can't derive the revenue premiums to make it worthwhile. That will no longer be the case.

They seriously do need to send every US employee that deals with customer interaction to Dallas for retraining, though, because their service standards aren't tolerated on AA.

[15895]

Yeah, a complete drama queen.

[Miesian Corners]

The bashing never ends from MAH4546

 

The concerns of serious degrading of AA product are unfounded, although I'm sure some things will be gone like in every merger. 

US failed to offer things like IFE and meals in first class because it's network can't derive the revenue premiums to make it worthwhile. That will no longer be the case.

They seriously do need to send every US employee that deals with customer interaction to Dallas for retraining, though, because their service standards aren't tolerated on AA.

I'm gold AAdvantage.  I fly AA a lot.  Honestly, there is no difference between US Airways, AA, Delta, or United in terms of treatment.  While I might get a meal up front from CLT to DFW on AA and not on US, the level of customer service at a personal level is exactly the same.  In fact, I'd argue that all domestic carriers are the same.  And before someone chimes in with "not Southwest", I try my darndest to NEVER fly them.  Some people think the never ending jokes are cute; me, not so much. I want to be left alone to do work.  PAs are annoying.

[ScottCLT]

I'm with ya, Miesian Corners. I am US Platinum and I always get good service from them, and get first-class upgrades for free nearly every time I fly without having to trade in 500-mile upgrade vouchers. I have been in first class on AA and UA also, and didn't really notice a difference except for the one thing that you mentioned - AA serves meals in first class even on shorter flights, where US only serves them on flights 3+ hours (I think that's right).

[ssh214]

I'm with ya, Miesian Corners. I am US Platinum and I always get good service from them, and get first-class upgrades for free nearly every time I fly without having to trade in 500-mile upgrade vouchers. I have been in first class on AA and UA also, and didn't really notice a difference except for the one thing that you mentioned - AA serves meals in first class even on shorter flights, where US only serves them on flights 3+ hours (I think that's right).

Yea you brought up a good point. Is the new American going to use the same AAdvantage system or a hybrid of both US and American; I hope we don't have to start using those upgrade vouchers; when you're at elite status I think that is stupid to make people use vouchers to upgrade...

[allthingsplanes]

I get the impression that they'll move fully to the AAdvantage program.  I firmly believe Parker has realized that they need to stick with the higher-end product that American was starting to move back to, though I hope that they'll do it in smart ways.  

 

What frustrates me most about many of the conversations that take place on A.net is the assumption that it only matters for F (First-Class) or J (Business) - that everyone is an Elite of some sort.  I don't get to fly that often and only do so in Y (coach).  I've had good experiences and bad experiences on most airlines - it's usually just dependent on the particular flight crew, gate and ticketing personnel, and whether there are weather delays or not.  I've flown US Airways multiple times since moving to Charlotte and have always had a fine experience.

[Miesian Corners]

Just spoke with a friend at US corporate in PHX.  The only big imminent changes at CLT will be reduced frequencies (but on larger aircraft) between CLT-DFW and CLT-ORD.  CLT-LAX will get an increase in daily service as well as one widebody departure daily (prob a 767--AA has over 100 of them).  There will also be a realignment of one European departure (CLT-LHR goes to 2X daily (both flown by US Airways crews, not BA--that will come in 2015), CLT-FRA goes to one a day).  Everything else will be biz as usual until late summer at operational merger time.  As it was told to me, Doug Parker has been working on this for three years.  He and his team have had everything planned since last summer.  Oh, and look for the new international terminal to begin construction a year earlier than originally anticipated (late 2014 if they can finish the parking garage by August).  

[LKN704]

One other thing I also see happening is the swap of A321s with 738s on several routes ex CLT.

 

Miesian Corners, I can't get quote to work for some reason, but do you know (or can you answer) when the second daily LHR flight will start, and why is BA waiting until 2015 to enter?

Edited November 14, 2013 by LKN704

[15895]

I hope they keep the US logo and drop the eagle thing (which still puzzles me how it's an eagle; looks like an i).

It doesn't make business sense but that's just a dream.

I think the American name with the US Airways logo would be very classy.

Edited November 14, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[mallguy]

Yea you brought up a good point. Is the new American going to use the same AAdvantage system or a hybrid of both US and American; I hope we don't have to start using those upgrade vouchers; when you're at elite status I think that is stupid to make people use vouchers to upgrade...

Hopefully it'll be Dividend Miles (the US program) more or less unchanged, which I hope, as a US Preferred for nearly 15 years.  With Doug Parker's US team running the combined airline, I'm looking at this as a US takeover of AA.

[Urbanity]

Kevin Siers of The Observer does a nice job as always.  

Did the Attorney General really accomplish much (or much more) than what would have happened with the FAA following the merger and gate assignments/distribution?    I'm curious from the airline/airport geeks.

 

[HopHead]

Charlotte-area business leaders are optimistic that the AA/US merger will lead to more International flights from CLT: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/11/13/4463653/business-leaders-hope-to-see-more.html#.UoTT7fmsh8E

 

Some scenarios around the loss of Lufthansa (if it were to occur) include the new AA resuming those flights or someone like AirBerlin filling in the gap since it has a OneWorld membership. Given the number of German companies based in the area, you have to believe something be done to address the need for non-stop services to Germany. As was mentioned earlier in this thread AA will focus more on the UK and Spain. It would be great IF somehow CLT could land nonstop flights to Asia. That seems to be on the radar and would be a game changer for the airport. 

[Miesian Corners]

One other thing I also see happening is the swap of A321s with 738s on several routes ex CLT.

 

Miesian Corners, I can't get quote to work for some reason, but do you know (or can you answer) when the second daily LHR flight will start, and why is BA waiting until 2015 to enter? 

 

Not sure of the second LHR--slot controlled airport, so there'll have to be some juggling with One World partner, BA.  As for British Airways' entry inot the CLT market in 2014, rather than this summer, it's all about having an available aircraft to do it.  I failed to mention yesterday that US is now considering swapping aircraft on the CLT-MAD and CLT-BCA routes.  With One World connections, it makes more sense to fly the larger A-330 to Madrid, which is Iberia's mega hub.

[LKN704]

I like Charlotte Chamber's approach of attracting foreign firms, instead of lobbying for more international flights. Obviously the more foreign firms that come, the greater our chances of seeing more international service.

 

Air Berlin to Dusseldorf would be great, DUS probably has decent O/D traffic from CLT.

 

CLT-MAD was originally scheduled to be a A330 next summer, but after the DOJ announced their intentions to block the merger, it was removed from the schedules.

[15895]

Just spoke with a friend at US corporate in PHX. The only big imminent changes at CLT will be reduced frequencies (but on larger aircraft) between CLT-DFW and CLT-ORD. CLT-LAX will get an increase in daily service as well as one widebody departure daily (prob a 767--AA has over 100 of them). There will also be a realignment of one European departure (CLT-LHR goes to 2X daily (both flown by US Airways crews, not BA--that will come in 2015), CLT-FRA goes to one a day). Everything else will be biz as usual until late summer at operational merger time. As it was told to me, Doug Parker has been working on this for three years. He and his team have had everything planned since last summer. Oh, and look for the new international terminal to begin construction a year earlier than originally anticipated (late 2014 if they can finish the parking garage by August).

The most significant detail being "look for the new international terminal to begin a year earlier [if]......"

US... Ugh, American would tell Charlotte to postpone the international terminal if American weren't serious about its commitment to growing CLT.

Besides flights to more gulf & Midwestern cities, I'd love to have more west coast cities & frequencies.

I could actually see Asia working from CLT. There surely has to be a good deal of demand between the southeast & Asia (Plus JAL is a strong American partner) and people will have to connect.... Funnel them through Charlotte. Yeah, CLT had lower O&D but regardless... People will have to connect....$20 in say Miami or $1 in Charlotte..... If you do the math, one can see why CLT is so lucrative.

[allthingsplanes]

^ As much as I want to see CLT expand, I have to say that right now I do fall on the skeptical side of things with regards to future Asian flights.  The competition for Charlotte in this area is not from Miami - it's from DFW and O'hare.  

 

Let's look at 2 particular connecting markets (not that they'd provide many passengers for these routes) - Jackson, MS (JAN) and Knoxville, TN (TYS).  In looking at distances per Great Circle Mapper from these cities to Tokyo (NRT).

 

TYS-CLT-NRT:  7348 miles

TYS-ORD-NRT: 7054

 

JAN-CLT-NRT: 7434

JAN-DFW-NRT: 6834

 

The only markets that would have to connect through Charlotte or make more sense are small markets (like Asheville, Florence, Myrtle Beach, etc.) that don't currently connect with ORD or DFW.  But I can't imagine that's anywhere near enough to fill a plane, since I believe there are very few people flying between Charlotte and Japan frequently.