Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[Miesian Corners]

Downside to the USAir / AA merger:

Wilmington, Fayetteville, Jacksonville and Myrtle Beach are among the 17 cities losing nonstop service to D.C. due to Obama/Holder/DoJ merger shakedown.

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20140115/ARTICLES/140119789/0/FRONTPAGE#gsc.tab=0

Yeah, sadly, I think this is AA's way of saying FU to the DOJ.  No other carrier is going to come in an fly those routes.  If the DOJ's idea was to keep service at smaller airports, they failed miserably.  Southwest isn't about to buy those slots and fly from DCA to places like FAY and MYR. Neither are Delta, United, jetBlue, or Spirit.  

[LKN704]

While this isn't really something to complain about, I really wish CLT would update their website. Even though they updated about a year ago or so, it is extremely basic in the information it provides, especially compared to other airport's websites.

 

Anyway, the Charlotte Observer has a updated, detailed list of construction projects:

 

-New hourly parking decks-Fall 2014. Will also include a new rental car center and will be connected to the terminal via tunnel*

-New checked baggage system-Summer 2015

-Terminal Roadway expansion-2015

-Entrance Road-Fall 2014

-2nd Valet Deck-Summer 2014

-Concourse A/B/E Expansion-2016

-Terminal Lobby Expansion-2018

-International Terminal-?

-New Runway-2017

 

For the first time, the article mentions that Concourses A/B/C/D will be renovated. IMHO, A/B/C are in poor shape. Very overcrowded and slightly dirty. Every time I fly out of the C concourse-it stinks really bad. I wonder what these renovations will cover.

 

I wonder if the new AA will be funding some renovations as well. I assume that all gate areas will be remodeled to include a GIDS at every gate.

 

I put a * next to the tunnels because according the plan for the garages, they appear to be connected to the terminal via a skyway. I wonder what has changed to make them decide to install a system of tunnels.

[Miesian Corners]

Concourse B's overhaul begins this year with a 10-gate expansion westward at the current terminus,  When that's completed, the gates on the current western side of the concourse will close so it can be widened for moving sidewalks down the center. As for Concourses A & C, no idea.  

 

Tunnels were always part of the plan for the new garage.  Escalators will take arriving passengers at baggage claim down to a tunnel that will connect to the new rental car facility.  Upper level bridges will take local passengers using the parking garage (upper levels of the new deck) into the ticket lobby.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Miesian Corners

[kickazzz2000]

While this isn't really something to complain about, I really wish CLT would update their website. Even though they updated about a year ago or so, it is extremely basic in the information it provides, especially compared to other airport's websites.

 

Anyway, the Charlotte Observer has a updated, detailed list of construction projects:

 

-New hourly parking decks-Fall 2014. Will also include a new rental car center and will be connected to the terminal via tunnel*

-New checked baggage system-Summer 2015

-Terminal Roadway expansion-2015

-Entrance Road-Fall 2014

-2nd Valet Deck-Summer 2014

-Concourse A/B/E Expansion-2016

-Terminal Lobby Expansion-2018

-International Terminal-?

-New Runway-2017

 

For the first time, the article mentions that Concourses A/B/C/D will be renovated. IMHO, A/B/C are in poor shape. Very overcrowded and slightly dirty. Every time I fly out of the C concourse-it stinks really bad. I wonder what these renovations will cover.

 

I wonder if the new AA will be funding some renovations as well. I assume that all gate areas will be remodeled to include a GIDS at every gate.

 

I put a * next to the tunnels because according the plan for the garages, they appear to be connected to the terminal via a skyway. I wonder what has changed to make them decide to install a system of tunnels.

The website has been garbage for years and years...that would have been the ONE benefit of the airport being under an authority...website would no longer look like a municipal department website.

[Miesian Corners]

It seems Jerry wants a job in another city now. Delusions of granduer still haunting him.  Interestingly in this same article, more about the terrible appearance of the terminal in its current state:  http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2014/01/jerry-orr-eyes-new-destination-as-clt-seeks.html

[Matthew.Brendan]

Crappy website, crappy terminal. That was the splendor of his shoestring budgeting right?

[LKN704]

I wouldn't go as far as saying the terminal is crappy. I would say it has aged decently well.

 

Concourses D (the newer portion as in gates D6-13) and E are spacious, bright, and clean. I love flying out of those concourses. There is a totally different traveling experience when departing out of gate C7 or gate D10 in my opinion.

 

If I currently ran CLT, I would:

 

-Replace most of the carpeting in the Concourses with terrazzo flooring, except the carpeting found near the gate areas. Carpet gets dirty really easily.

-Increase the amount of natural lighting found in Concourses A/B/C. Either do something with the windows or add skylights on the ceiling.

-Replace all lighting with brighter LED lighting throughout the terminal.

-Replace the gate area seating.

-Replace the sound systems found at the gate areas.

-Speed up the Ticketing Lobby renovation process.

[cltbwimob]

Lufthansa once again provides assurances that it will keep the CLT-Munich flight even after US Airways switches to the Oneworld alliance.

 

Perhaps CLT officials could encourage United airlines to open a Charlotte-Greenville express route to keep BMW happy and provide connections for the CLT-MUC route.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/21/4629604/lufthansa-were-not-cutting-charlotte.html#.Ut_KirROnIU

[nowensone]

Saw that, had no idea there were 50,000 German employees in the metro, which I would imagine would only continue to grow.  Could not figure out if the OD traffic was too low though, was it only so profitable as a connection as well?  In any case, bring on the Germans, may they soon dedicate some part of town as little Munich or something similar.

[ScottCLT]

The Flightstats.com on-time report for December lists CLT as the top US airport of only two in the "major international airport on-time departures (top ten)" category and second "North American airport on-time departures" category only second to Honolulu (I guess they don't consider HNL a "major international airport"):

 

http://flightstats.com/company/december-2013-on-time-performance-report/

[allthingsplanes]

Lufthansa once again provides assurances that it will keep the CLT-Munich flight even after US Airways switches to the Oneworld alliance.

 

Perhaps CLT officials could encourage United airlines to open a Charlotte-Greenville express route to keep BMW happy and provide connections for the CLT-MUC route.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/21/4629604/lufthansa-were-not-cutting-charlotte.html#.Ut_KirROnIU

 

Boy - this has (re)started quite the debate on A.net.  Personally I think Lufthansa will make this work (at least I'm hoping they do) but it will be a smaller plane.

[ScottCLT]

US, currently in Star Alliance, has individual partnerships with Qatar Airways and Royal Jordanian, which are both in OneWorld. That allows US travelers to earn miles on those airlines as well even though they aren't part of Star Alliance (and vice versa on those airlines). I wonder if, once US moves to OneWorld, they will be able to create a similar partnership with Lufthansa. Also, note that United actually has a code-share agreement with Qatar Airways even though they are in different alliances, so that takes their partnership even a step further. So it's not an uncommon thing. I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, and that would definitely help preserve Lufthansa's presence in Charlotte.

[LKN704]

The problem that worries me is that LH doesn't have a smaller plane. They are currently flying their smaller plane during the Winter season on CLTMUC. The only thing I can thing of is if they transition the flight to a Privatair 737.

[allthingsplanes]

^ I meant that they'll stay on the A330 that they use in wintertime year round and never go to the 340-6.

[15895]

US, currently in Star Alliance, has individual partnerships with Qatar Airways and Royal Jordanian, which are both in OneWorld. That allows US travelers to earn miles on those airlines as well even though they aren't part of Star Alliance (and vice versa on those airlines). I wonder if, once US moves to OneWorld, they will be able to create a similar partnership with Lufthansa. Also, note that United actually has a code-share agreement with Qatar Airways even though they are in different alliances, so that takes their partnership even a step further. So it's not an uncommon thing. I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, and that would definitely help preserve Lufthansa's presence in Charlotte.

Apples to oranges, right?

US Airways doesn't compete with Qatar nor Jordanian.

AAL will compete with Lufthansa/United (which if I'm not mistaken operates as a single entity over the Atlantic thanks to ATI, but I cOuld be wrong) for US-Germany traffic.

I hope we get Iberia metal!! Hope Lufthansa stAys also but I'll gladly take my favorite airline Iberia

Edited January 22, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD

[Miesian Corners]

I wouldn't go as far as saying the terminal is crappy. I would say it has aged decently well.

 

Concourses D (the newer portion as in gates D6-13) and E are spacious, bright, and clean. I love flying out of those concourses. There is a totally different traveling experience when departing out of gate C7 or gate D10 in my opinion.

 

If I currently ran CLT, I would:

 

-Replace most of the carpeting in the Concourses with terrazzo flooring, except the carpeting found near the gate areas. Carpet gets dirty really easily.

-Increase the amount of natural lighting found in Concourses A/B/C. Either do something with the windows or add skylights on the ceiling.

-Replace all lighting with brighter LED lighting throughout the terminal.

-Replace the gate area seating.

-Replace the sound systems found at the gate areas.

-Speed up the Ticketing Lobby renovation process.

Most all of what you want will be taken care of with the merger with AA.  Notable exception is carpeting.  Concourses A, B, and C have prefab concrete flooring systems that have a good bit of bounce to them.  For this reason, terrazzo or tile will not work due to the amount of cracks that would occur.  

[ScottCLT]

True. I didn't think of it that way, but makes sense to me. There are no Middle Eastern based carriers in Star Alliance, right? But at the same time, several Star Alliance airlines do fly to the Middle East (Lufthansa, Turkish, United, Swiss).

Speaking of that, I would love, love, love to see a direct flight to Amman or Doha from Charlotte. I travel to that region of the world a lot and it would be great not to have to make so many connections.

[cltbwimob]

Another take on the Charlotte-Munich route. Interestingly enough this story portends a seemingly less tentative answer to the question...Finance companies and various other local companies account for 3/4 of the bookings. According to the report the local traffic as stated is more than ample to justify the flight.

http://charlotte.twcnews.com/content/news/business/703825/lufthansa-staying-in-charlotte-post-us-american-merger

Edited January 23, 2014 by cltbwimob

[allthingsplanes]

Yet another sign that CLT is not going to be adversely affected by the merger, and may actually grow:

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/28/4645892/american-airlines-revenue-up-as.html#.UuiK-xDna70

[atlrvr]

I like the Tulsa and Madison route ideas.  Hopefully we see those.

[ChessieCat]

Here is my take on the future of CLT's major international flights:

• If the above article is correct, Lufthansa will probably service the CLT-Germany* market with A330's until they receive the A350 toward the end of the decade. "Aircraft size" basically means they will cease flying the gas-guzzling A340-600 to Charlotte during the summer months.  But everything depends on...

• USAir's Charlotte-Frankfurt flight.  Can AA sustain this flight now that US has left Star Alliance?  Charlotte has a smaller amount of O&D international traffic compared to other Eastern cities.  So will AA switch to Dusseldorf or Berlin-Tegel from CLT and codeshare with AirBerlin?  Chicago is the only precedent:  AA flies to DUS and AB to TXL.  

*Conclusion:  I can see LH switching to CLT-Frankfurt (more connecting traffic options than MUC) if AA abandons the route.

• USAir's other seasonal European routes (FCO/BRU/DUB/CDG/LIS/MAN):  None of these are oneworld hubs.  BRU and LIS are Star Alliance hubs.  I don't know if there is enough demand to sustain these routes given the low level of O&D traffic from CLT.  It all depends on connecting traffic.  

• CLT-LHR:  It was fortuitous that USAir switched to Heathrow from Gatwick in 2013 before the merger.  Connecting options multiply considerably through BA in oneworld.  Could we see a twice-daily during the summer months?  Might be difficult at slot-restricted LHR, but it would be a dream to see BA 787's fly here one day...

• CLT-MAD and CLT-BCN:. both are inevitable codeshares with Iberia.  Hopefully the Madrid service can become year-round if enough connecting traffic exists.  Barcelona will likely stick as a seasonal route...

• CLT-GRU & CLT-GIG:  It was fortuitous that USAir won permission to fly to Sao Paulo and Rio before the merger, and worked out connecting options with TAM who was also in Star Alliance.  Now both airlines have merged and moved to oneworld.  Miami is the Latin American gateway for LAN and AA, so don't expect to see any more flights to South America outside of the current two daily nonstops to Brazil.

• CLT-Doha.   I don't see Qatar flying here given they have service to IAD (Washington Dulles).

• CLT-Amman. Outside of the major US gateways, only a place like Detroit with the largest Middle-Eastern population in the country can sustain a nonstop to AMM.

• CLT-Helsinki.   Unfortunately there aren't enough Finns in this world to justify a Finnair codeshare...  

• NRT/HKG/KUL/DME/SYD:  These are the hubs of oneworld partners JAL/Cathay/MAS/S7/Qantas.  Only JAL (787) and Cathay (A350-900) will have the smallest possible aircraft to fly nonstop to Asia, and neither have passenger service to the Southeast at present.  CLT could make the perfect stopover on the way to Miami, and may provide just enough O&D and connecting traffic to make the following routes worthwhile later this decade: NRT-CLT-MIA or HKG-CLT-MIA.

Edited January 31, 2014 by ChessieCat

[LKN704]

^Very good analysis.

 

I'm going to say that LHR/FRA/CDG/GRU/MAD are all guaranteed to be safe. While CDG isn't a OW hub, it isn't a Star hub either, and AA has more feed in CDG and is more well known in that market. I think they can make the flight work on a seasonal basis. I'd love for CDG to be year round again.

 

FRA is definitely sticking around, although you may see if be flown on a 763 during the winter months. There is considerable O/D  between CLT and FRA, almost as much as LON. CLT-FRA would probably be flown even if there was no hub in CLT. If AA/US drop it, expect to see LH pick it up. But then again, no way that AA/US will drop the route.

 

I stand by my belief, that BA will return to CLT. Hopefully we will see an announcement soon. I wouldn't be surprised to see AB launch DUS, either.

 

Here are my "wild-cards":

 

-GIG: How well is the flight really doing, especially in the summer months. I hear the flight does very well in the Winter when it is upgauged to a A332. But the rest of the year, I hear it is low-yielding traffic.

 

-FCO: Same with CDG. Neither a OW or Star hub, BUT it is a popular tourist destination during the summer, and the flight does well now, so I don't really see it being dropped unless it interferes with the profitability of MIA's flight.

 

-BCN: Out of GIG/FCO/BCN, I'd say BCN probably has the most likely hood of sticking because it is both a tourist destination, and a hub for IAG (International Airline Group, parent company of Iberia and BA)'s subsidiary, Air Norstrum.

[ah59396]

I'll be utilizing a CLT - MAD and a BCN - CLT in August!

[LKN704]

I heard from a friend who works at US that CLT-GRU/GIG are ending in 2015, and the slots in Brazil currently used for those flights will be transferred so more flights can be added to MIA. This confirms what I read on a post written by a US flight attendant on another site. Very, very disappointed to see this. I had expected to see GIG end, but GRU is very surprising due to it soon going to a Airbus A330 year round.

 

Can't wait to see the article in the Charlotte Observer with US/AA giving a generic statement saying: "We worked really hard to make these flights work, but unfortunately they were not turning the profit we require....." BS. Hope this isn't a sign of things to come.

[ajfunder]

^Until it's official I will continue to have hope that we won't lose these flights.