Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[New Name]

Maybe you airplaney people know more... lets say I wanted to go to Barcelona once it becomes available and I want to get a good deal. Any chance "introductory" flights are cheaper or anything? Come on secrets of the industry... .

[atlrvr]

Lisbon and Brussels do seem surprising.  Will be interesting if they survive past this summer assuming US and AA merge.  On one hand, they do have lots of summer tourist traffic and stronger passenger feed from AA should help demand, but on the Europe side, both airports are Star Alliance hubs, so there is no continuing traffic.  I'm sure they will make a go of it, and hopefully all routes do well to stick around.

 

The downside to OneWorld (as opposed to Star Alliance or SkyTeam) is the weak European hubs except London and Madrid.  It will be interesting to see if they try connecting Charlotte to Air Berlin hubs of Dusseldorf or Berlin (once their new airport FINALLY opens). 

 

Also, I still think Lima, Peru is the next logical South American route.  I don't think that we will see much South American expansion, but that flight can be done with a A319 (i think), is a LAN hubs (so OneWorld), probably would have some local demand stimulation, and a cheaper transfer point than Miami.  I'll leave that decision to the professionals though

[jme3]

What a sublime coup for Charlotte, and indeed the state.  Charlotte packs far more punch per square mile of city than probably any other in the nation and of all the great things it has going for it, these are four more. 

 

On the chance that US and AA are not allowed to merge, hopefully these steps at growing the airline from within will prove successful both short and long term.  And IF they don't merge, I can't help but think the same logic the government uses to keep US and AA apart would also prevent some other airline from making a move for US separately, thus keeping US independent and Charlotte at their forefront.  Whatever the ultimate outcome, this is great news to be sure. 

[HopHead]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10/21/4403818/us-airways-adds-four-international.html#.UmUhPvUas_Q.twitter

 

The flights from Charlotte to Barcelona, Lisbon and Manchester will begin May 22, the company said, and the Brussels flight will launch June 5. The Barcelona flight will run through October 24, the Lisbon and Manchester flights through September 28, and the Brussels flight through Sept. 1.

 

Not sure if this was overlooked, but one thing that was mentioned towards the end of this article was the desire to have some non-stops to Asia, specifically China. This is because of the amount of business that is done between Charlotte and China. If it's going to happen, I think this has greater potential if the AA/US merger goes through given American's network... Sounds like the airport needs that 12,500 foot runway to be built.

[ScottCLT]

Though I know changes for the good are coming, I must comment on how horrendous parking at CLT is right now. Today, every lot was closed except for Long Term 4, which is out in the middle of nowhere. Daily North looks like it is permanently shut down, because now there is the new entrance road going in where it used to be. And speaking of that, the new entrance/exit to the airport from Little Rock Road is really moving along. They've made major progress. Anyone know when the hourly parking deck is going to be finished? Hopefully things will return to normal as far as parking goes when that happens. I dread it every time I go to the airport, and have lately just done Business Valet (even though my company won't reimburse me for it) just to avoid the hassles of finding an open lot.

[allthingsplanes]

^ I agree about the parking.  I flew out of there last week and had to park in Long Term 4 (which I didn't even know exists).  A few other thoughts:

1) The airport website (which doesn't get updated too often) makes it sound like most of the work there will be wrapping up by the end of next year.  Obviously things can change, but it looks like they're on track.

2) I CAN'T WAIT for the expanded roadway in front of the terminal to be completed.  They're beginning to work on it now.  They've closed the "smoking sections" on the upper deck.  I'm curious to see what the next step is for that.  But that roadway is sooo bad with all of the buses and so few lanes coming in.

3) On that note, CLT gets knocked a lot by those haters on A.net for lack of O&D, but based on the parking and drop off/pick up situations, I believe our O&D is not bad.

4) I still can't get my head wrapped around how that new "entrance road" is going to work.  What the advantages will be.  At least until they connect straight through to Little Rock Rd.

[Guest]

 

 

3) On that note, CLT gets knocked a lot by those haters on A.net for lack of O&D, but based on the parking and drop off/pick up situations, I believe our O&D is not bad.

 

What does this mean? Sorry I'm not a plane geek. 

[teeg]

 

4) I still can't get my head wrapped around how that new "entrance road" is going to work.  What the advantages will be.  At least until they connect straight through to Little Rock Rd.

 

In the short term, the new entrance road should improve the connection to the airport from Wilkinson Blvd.  Going to/from downtown, Wilkinson is the fastest route, but getting from Wilkinson to Josh Birmingham Pkwy is pretty indirect.  The best route to the airport (left on Harlee at the Business Valet garage, right on Josh Birmingham) does not work in the reverse.  

 

A map of the new entrance road:

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/Airport/News/PublishingImages/MapNewEntranceRdProject.jpg

 

Also, see page 10 of this:

http://charlottechamber.com/clientuploads/Economic_pdfs/Presentations/CLT_Presentation_3-13.pdf

[cltbwimob]

What does this mean? Sorry I'm not a plane geek.

Origin and Destination... Passengers that begin and end their trips at CLT.

[Guest]

Origin and Destination... Passengers that begin and end their trips at CLT.

Oh okay. Well... we're still making money and flights are still expanding at a rapid pace, so they can shove it.

[15895]

Oh okay. Well... we're still making money and flights are still expanding at a rapid pace, so they can shove it.

To their point, and I want you folks who aren't familiar with aviation to know.

The reason there is so many naysayers is because Charlotte is wayyyyyyy more connecting passengers than O&D (people flying to Charlotte or from Charlotte - not connecting passengers) as is Atlanta. Where as every other hub is much more even at 50% or less connecting passengers.

Charlotte to Rio D, for example, may have 2 or so Passengners a day from Charlotte. Where as other hub cities may have 40 of more. That's a familiar pattern with Charlotte where we will get a flight with probably 1 passenger. No other hub (excluding ATL) has that luxury.

They claim that CLT thrives because CLT is the only alternative to PHL and that US lower cost makes CLT viable.

Even though Charlotte is one of the highest yielding local markets (most expensive to fly from - more money) majority of our Passengners are connecting so instead of flying 1/2 a cabin with nonstop passengers who are higher yielding, charlotte handles passengers connecting (taking up two seats on two flights - higher cost) on cheaper fares.

That's why people think CLT will get reduced. Why fly from "low yielding" charlotte when you could make much more at Miami/NYC/Boston.

The problem with that theory is;

A - competition at those larger airports

B - a ton of people still will connect.... So connect through cheap Charlottenor expensive NYC

[HopHead]

^And... C. Cost per passenger out of CLT is pennies on the dollar for US Airways when compared with airlines at other airports like NYC/Miami/etc. (I think that's more of an extension of your point B)

Edited October 23, 2013 by wend28

[allthingsplanes]

In the short term, the new entrance road should improve the connection to the airport from Wilkinson Blvd.  Going to/from downtown, Wilkinson is the fastest route, but getting from Wilkinson to Josh Birmingham Pkwy is pretty indirect.  The best route to the airport (left on Harlee at the Business Valet garage, right on Josh Birmingham) does not work in the reverse.  

 

A map of the new entrance road:

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/Airport/News/PublishingImages/MapNewEntranceRdProject.jpg

 

Also, see page 10 of this:

http://charlottechamber.com/clientuploads/Economic_pdfs/Presentations/CLT_Presentation_3-13.pdf

 

Okay, thanks.  I usually come in via I-85 so I hardly ever go that way.  But this makes sense based on the few times I've tried to use Wilkinson.

 

As for the future of Charlotte - I'm still very optimistic.  I don't think that we'll keep all of our international flights if we do merge, but believe that down the road Charlotte will be an even bigger hub (as the city keeps growing / businesses keep coming / and the positive effects of being part of the bigger AA take effect).

[RiverwoodCLT]

When the airport gets the new international terminal with 25 gates, I think you will see more international flights. Terminal D does not have many gates- only 7.

[Miesian Corners]

When the airport gets the new international terminal with 25 gates, I think you will see more international flights. Terminal D does not have many gates- only 7.

Concourse D has 13 gates capable of handling international traffic.  But it's not gate space that's the problem, it's the fact the customs hall is too small. When three US A-330s and one LH A340 arrive within 45 minutes of each other, there's simply no room at passport control for the 1.000 passengers those three flights carry.  

[LKN704]

As stated above, all gates in D are capable of handling international traffic.

 

Gates D1-D5 can access the International Arrivals area through a series of tunnels, corridors, and escalators that eventually lead to the immigration area. These gates were the original International gates before D was expanded.

 

Gates D6-D13 were part of the expansion project. All gates in this area have escalators/elevators that lead directly into the immigration area.

 

I think JetBlue uses gate D4 exclusively. I think all other gates are common use.

 

Anyway, there are two problems currently in Concourse D:

 

1. This only applies to gates D1-5, but whenever a A330 uses a gate in this area, the wingspan blocks the two corresponding from being used.

 

2. The International Arrivals area is rather small. IIRC, there are 14 or 16 lanes (I can't remember the number) and three baggage carousels. It took me about 40 minutes to get through coming from SJO, and the only other flights arriving at that time were flights from Latin America or the Islands.

 

Once the International Terminal opens, D will be retired from international use, although I wouldn't be surprised to continue to see widebody aircraft depart from D. I really, really would like to see the International Terminal actually come to fruition, and I hope the merger doesn't change anything.

 

On a separate note, Concourse A Annex and Concourse B expansion begins this January! I pity the poor souls who will have to walk from gate B28 to E48 to make their connecting flight when the expansion is all said and done.

[Bikeguy]

According to the Observer, LED streetlights will be installed on the new entryway because of energy savings and visual improvements..  Why would it not make sense for the city to adopt a similar policy on all new streetlight installations?

 

...or maybe just start converting existing streetlights.  

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10/29/4424253/airport-to-upgrade-wireless-internet.html#.UnAXBvmmhBk

 

Anybody have any insight on this?

[dubone]

I still facepalm when I remember that the state denied LEDs for the Brookshire freeway despite having already let it be pitch dark for years.   

 

Apparently the human eye actually is able to see far far better in the white light of LEDs which simulates moonlight (based on our evolution under actual moonlight).  I saw an example of this in articles relating to LED replacement of sodium lights in NYC.  

 

I can't find the example I saw for NYC, but here is a similar before and after visibility difference in this article:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/justingerdes/2013/01/25/los-angeles-saves-millions-with-led-street-light-deployment/

[Temeteron]

According to the Observer, LED streetlights will be installed on the new entryway because of energy savings and visual improvements..  Why would it not make sense for the city to adopt a similar policy on all new streetlight installations?

 

...or maybe just start converting existing streetlights.  

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10/29/4424253/airport-to-upgrade-wireless-internet.html#.UnAXBvmmhBk

 

Anybody have any insight on this?

I think they should replace those God awful 1970's lights on I-77!!  

[Urbanity]

I still facepalm when I remember that the state denied LEDs for the Brookshire freeway despite having already let it be pitch dark for years.   

 

Apparently the human eye actually is able to see far far better in the white light of LEDs which simulates moonlight (based on our evolution under actual moonlight).  I saw an example of this in articles relating to LED replacement of sodium lights in NYC.  

 

I can't find the example I saw for NYC, but here is a similar before and after visibility difference in this article:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/justingerdes/2013/01/25/los-angeles-saves-millions-with-led-street-light-deployment/

Wasn't McCrory the one who pushed for them as mayor?  It would seem* that it would be worth whoever is mayor after the election to push it again.

 

*I have no idea where that McCrory went after he left Charlotte. 

[dubone]

Well, with NYC swapping they entire city streetlight system, and with the tech selection finding LED better at the airport and once people realize the color improves visibility perception and the lower electricity usage, I'm confident in a couple years they will decide to make a dramatic switch.  

 

Plus, with CREE based in Raleigh and Duke probably being supportive because they can get some profits from the savings as well based the renewables law.

 

It is very possible that the LEDs at the time were truly too low in lumens or too expensive, but from my own experience at my house and then from the other cities planning switches to LED that the value has hit a tipping point recently.

[Urbanity]

On a different CLT point - re Bikeguy's linked article mention of the upgrading of the wireless.  I recently had a trip to Chicago and was shocked to find you had to pay for wireless access at O'Hare.

[Norm2]

On a different CLT point - re Bikeguy's linked article mention of the upgrading of the wireless.  I recently had a trip to Chicago and was shocked to find you had to pay for wireless access at O'Hare.

Yea you have to pay for wireless at O'Hare. Midway though has free wireless just like our airport. Not sure why O'Hare is a pay service.

[Miesian Corners]

CLT has already replaced the lights on the ticketing level roadway with LEDs.  As for Brookshire and 77, I thought the reason they weren't used was that they were gong to be solar LEDs and the technology didn't allow for high enough lumen output.  

Edited October 30, 2013 by Miesian Corners

[dubone]

Fair point, MC, I had forgotten about the solar aspects.   

 

Incidentally, I went past there yesterday on 277 and already 7-10 lights are out in the most dangerous zone near Independence.   I sure hope LED has better results in longevity.  

 

I wonder if the LEDs using much less electricity also allows for less copper in the wiring, being less likely that terrible-humans will steal it.  I know commodities prices have cooled down, but if there were less there to begin with, it might be good.   Furthermore, perhaps trading out the thicker copper wires could help the governments cover the costs of the new bulbs.