Drinking Beer in Charlotte

[11 HouseBZ]

Has anyone heard of a brewery going in on 24th Street between Graham and Tryon? Heard it from a coworker. 

[Prodev]

Yeah, I think this is Sycamore's production facility. 

[CLTProductions]

1 hour ago, Prodev said:

Yeah, I think this is Sycamore's production facility. 

Sycamore? I thought it was Heist. I'm confused lol 

[Prodev]

Could be. I know both are in that immediate area, but I thought Heist was between Statesville and Graham.

[11 HouseBZ]

Not to add any confusion, but same coworker after speaking to the fire inspector said it's a German brewery. Not sure how trustworthy the info is though. 

[grodney]

46 minutes ago, 11 HouseBZ said:

Not to add any confusion, but same coworker after speaking to the fire inspector said it's a German brewery. 

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by grodney

[grodney]

19 hours ago, Prodev said:

Could be. I know both are in that immediate area, but I thought Heist was between Statesville and Graham.

Yep, Heist's new production facility and taproom is at 1030 Woodward, in the building that once housed Precision Dynamics.

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/68628/heist-brewery-to-expand-open-new-production-facility/

 

 

[InSouthPark]

54 minutes ago, grodney said:

Yep, Heist's new production facility and taproom is at 1030 Woodward, in the building that once housed Precision Dynamics.

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/68628/heist-brewery-to-expand-open-new-production-facility/

 

 

Trying to find it on google maps and saw the address is: 1033 CARTER AVE even though it fronts Woodward. 

I think all the Wells might have been drinking while he wrote the article. I had to read it three time to actually figure out what they are doing and where!

[grodney]

12 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

Trying to find it on google maps and saw the address is: 1033 CARTER AVE even though it fronts Woodward. 

I think all the Wells might have been drinking while he wrote the article. I had to read it three time to actually figure out what they are doing and where!

Yeah that article was really horrible, as far as structure and content.  But anyway, I got the "1030 Woodward" off the sign that is on the building in StreetView.  (Super Sneaky (sarcasm) of the article to say 3 miles away, Statesville corridor, with a pic of the building, with a giant radio tower behind it ---- but Heist doesn't want to divulge its location.)

Anyway, I don't have any idea if the actual address is Carter or Woodward....although the rendering sure makes it look like the Woodward side will be the main entrance.

 

[grodney]

Can anybody grab me a couple 4-packs of Sticky When Wet? Can meet uptown during the workday to get them from you.....I just have no good way to get to the brewery during open hours.

[kermit]

has anybody been to Blue Blaze since their opening? (or even heard a peep from them?)

[grodney]

15 hours ago, kermit said:

has anybody been to Blue Blaze since their opening? (or even heard a peep from them?)

Yes, I was there Sun Sep 11 from 1:32 - 2:18 (thanks Android location history hahahaha)....they opened at Noon.  There was a party bus there with 10-12 people.  But other than that, there was exactly 1 couple there when we got there.  2 or 3 more couples had arrived by the time we left.  I was sad to see it so deserted.  Weather was good, and that was the first Sunday of the NFL season...but the Panthers had already played on Thursday night.

However, having said that, I follow them on the tweeterers, and they are very active.  They've always got some event or beer dinner or sponsorship going.

[InSouthPark]

^^ We are starting to get to the point where breweries in town need to either 1) Cater to the Millennials 2) Make Outstanding Beer  3) Have an awesome location/patio

I don't see what Blue Blaze does that will draw people away from their regular stops in Southend/Noda. I think that it's great that they are trying a new area in town but do residents in that area fully support it?  When Noda and Birdsong first started, people lined the sidewalk walking down from the neighborhood.  Locals helped spread the word. Beer geeks were just thrilled to have hoppy beers to try so they flocked there as well and helped spread the word.  Then Triple C opened the whole Southend area where the masses of apartment dwellers could walk to and bring their dog. They just had to open the doors, "if you build it, they will come". 

I am sure there are some neighborhood support but is it enough? Doesn't mean they wont succeed there, but it is an uphill battle to get their kegs out to restaurants and bars and build their popularity that way. It's a lot easier to have people asking for your product instead of having to push the sales. 

I personally haven't gone because of the BS they pulled trying to trademark beer names that already existed in Charlotte (White Blaze already used by Triple C and Ghost Blaze which is very much like Ghost Hop).  It caused both of those breweries to involve lawyers. That is not how you get support from the craft beer crowd.  Will I some day? Sure probably. But I am not making a special trip, especially since the friends we had off of Rozzell Ferry moved after they got tired of hearing gun shots at night. 

      

[DCtransplant]

20 hours ago, kermit said:

has anybody been to Blue Blaze since their opening? (or even heard a peep from them?)

I live a few blocks from Blue Blaze and am there on a roughly once a week basis. I see a lot of the same faces that also live in the neighborhood - so from my perspective it's become a bit of a local hang out. It's never empty, but never quite as busy as some of the other breweries around town. The density in our part of town is not at the same level as South End or NoDa so i do wonder if they can survive with just neighborhood support or need to draw in a larger audience or hold out the (?) number of years until the rest of Savona Mill is built out making it more of a destination. 

[kermit]

^ yup, I completely agree (with InSouthPark, DCTransplat's post snuck up on me). I think the days of "hey look, local beer. Cool, lets drink some!" are over. I suspect the only path now to wide (local) distribution is by starting as a very popular neighborhood joint and I am getting the feeling that Blue Blaze is not that. I am wondering if we have entered the brewery shakeout phase. If we had less onerous distribution laws I wuold expect to see consolidation and mergers, but that seems unrealistic given the 25,000 br cap.

related to the above how is Free Range doing? I never saw any of their beer outside the taproom. Is Legion still shaping up as the Wooden Robot of PM? (world beating beer but still almost entirely in-house).

Does anyone have a stong opinion about Unknown? I'll drink an Over The Edge when there is nothing else to choose from but I really haven't ever been able to get excited about their stuff. 

51 minutes ago, DCtransplant said:

I live a few blocks from Blue Blaze and am there on a roughly once a week basis. I see a lot of the same faces that also live in the neighborhood - so from my perspective it's become a bit of a local hang out. It's never empty, but never quite as busy as some of the other breweries around town. The density in our part of town is not at the same level as South End or NoDa so i do wonder if they can survive with just neighborhood support or need to draw in a larger audience or hold out the (?) number of years until the rest of Savona Mill is built out making it more of a destination. 

Welcome. 

How is Blue Blaze's beer these days?

Edited October 18, 2016 by kermit

[kermit]

Did Southern Tier / Victory get scared off by HB2? Their original schedule had them opening up the Charlotte production facility in less than a year from now. Unless construction is already underway that aint gonna happen.

(sorry, I am full of beer questions today)

Edited October 18, 2016 by kermit

[tozmervo]

I would just point out that breweries don't have to be doing slam-packed business to do well, we just happen to have a lot of breweries doing EXTREMELY well. Assuming Blue Blaze's space is pretty inexpensive to rent, they aren't going to have to move that much beer to stick around for a good long time.

[SouthEndCLT811]

24 minutes ago, kermit said:

Did Southern Tier / Victory get scared off by HB2? Their original schedule had them opening up the Charlotte production facility in less than a year from now. Unless construction is already underway that aint gonna happen.

(sorry, I am full of beer questions today)

Don't have the answer to your question but you reminded me to mention the Southern Tier/Sugar Creek IPA collaboration that was released on Saturday is quite good.  Not your typical west coast/citrus IPA but good nonetheless.

Edited October 18, 2016 by SouthEndCLT811

[DCtransplant]

38 minutes ago, kermit said:

Welcome. 

How is Blue Blaze's beer these days?

Thanks! The beer is pretty good - I would say it's similar in style/portfolio to OMB but not quite at the same level. They have been experimenting lately with what seems to be a new release every week or so which is a positive - hopefully some of those stick around or become regular rotation. The Oktoberfest was surprisingly good and different from most iterations you see. I'm personally a fan of their Black IPA - that's usually what I'm drinking.

[nonillogical]

50 minutes ago, kermit said:

related to the above how is Free Range doing? I never saw any of their beer outside the taproom. Is Legion still shaping up as the Wooden Robot of PM? (world beating beer but still almost entirely in-house).

Does anyone have a stong opinion about Unknown? I'll drink an Over The Edge when there is nothing else to choose from but I really haven't ever been able to get excited about their stuff. 

Free Range - I've never seen it that busy but have only gone in the afternoons. On my last few visits I really enjoyed the vibe there though, very friendly people behind the bar and usually some laid-back live music. I've seen their beer only a handful of times in other NoDa establishments as best I can remember. Even though their focus isn't what I usually drink, I really think their beer is a nice injection of variety in the scene, so I do hope they spread it around a little more.

Legion - Knocking it out of the park IMO. Juicy J gets better every time I try it, and now easily tops my list of IPAs in town (its almost apples to oranges vs. hop drop though). I have found a lot of bars around town with 1 legion tap and its usually that one. 

Unknown - I've been a pretty big defender of theirs after their rocky first year, having tried some awesome special releases and I think Over the Edge is pretty good and priced lower than most local beers. The last time I went to the brewery though they were out of almost everything and what new stuff I did try fell flat, some downright bad. Then the other week I was in Atlanta and noticed they were carrying Unknown in a bottle shop there. I got a bottle of El Corazon Que Sangra Morado, an ale brewed with purple corn, hibiscus and spices. I've never had anything like it, it was absolutely delicious. I think they're falling into the same category as Sycamore to me: the usual lineup is nothing great but the special releases are consistently impressive. 

[grodney]

Hey as long as we're chatting, I checked in on Bold Missy today and WOW I didn't realize they were so far along.  Drain trenches, outdoor patio, now walls going up inside.  They have rocketed to the top of my "Coming Soon" list, as I haven't seen anything close to that for Hyde or Resident Culture.

Coming soon:

• Bold Missy (north NoDa) - construction well underway - "winter" - optimistic, but at least there's solid progress
• Resident Culture (Plaza Mid) - "Spring 2017" (yeah, right)
• Heist 2nd taproom - Statesville Ave area north of uptown - "Apr/Jun 2017" 
• Seaboard - small add-on brewing operation at taproom/winebar in Matthews - no timetable given
• Hyde - SouthEnd - crickets

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zvfji2eVQoVE.kz5BFo-0quQ8

 

 

[grodney]

The financial details of "making it" on 1) taproom sales, 2) kegs to bars/restaurants, and 3) bottles/cans in retail is fascinating and a mystery to me.  

I go somewhere like Thirsty Nomad and think NO WAY can you make it at that location without something other than very limited hour taproom sales.

I don't go to a lot of bars/restaurants, but I would think tap space there is pretty crowded, and hard to sell, especially if you're new and/or don't have local reputation.

As for retail bottles/cans, I think there's plenty of shelf space (by knocking out NC/regional/national stuff), but then there's the question of actually doing the canning/bottling, and distribution, etc.  And if it will even sell at retail, again, if you don't have a local reputation.

Anyway, I don't question that places like Sycamore and Wooden Robot and Legion can "make it", and make it comfortably, without anything other than taproom sales.  But I wonder about the long-term prospects for Three Spirits or (to some extent) Blue Blaze (at least they have the future promise of Savona and I like the location much better than Three Spirits).

The related fascinating part is that Charlotte Breweries, in general, have done it big-time from the get-go.  Yes, Barking Duck was essentially in a garage, as was D9.  (And the failed 4 Friends.)  But the others have tended to be high-gloss very professional very clean operations from the start.  Okay, Lenny Boy less so, but you know what I mean.  When I go to breweries in other cities, something as nice as a Charlotte standard brewery is more the exception than the rule.

Hoping to get to the new Lenny Boy taproom this weekend, and maybe Wooden Robot since the girls are itching to try that homemade ice cream next door.

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by grodney

[kermit]

^ Its a mystery to me as well. But Toz is right, margins on beer are astronomical - I would not be surprised if tap room sales had a pretax margin of 80% or more. Given that, if costs are low, like at the original Lenny Boy or Birdsong then life is good. Perhaps the expense side of the ledger only gets ugly when you have to hire people to do outside sales, need more than one tap room shift or have lots of space (cough, Unknown, cough). So I guess Charlotte shows us that just about anyone can open a brewery and survive, but the big leap is getting your beer out into the wild where the real money is. I would bet that is only getting harder as the craft market gets more mature.

(and thanks for keeping the map going grodney!)

 

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by kermit

[grodney]

39 minutes ago, kermit said:

, but the big leap is getting your beer out into the wild where the real money is. I would bet that is only getting harder as the craft market gets more mature.

But I continue to say that it's not craft against craft, it's craft against macro. And what is that stat from Craft Freedom...only 4% of beer consumed in NC is brewed in NC. That is staggering to me.

There will always be macro-only people...probably a majority...but there's still a lot of conversion therapy to be had.

[videtur quam contuor]

Last I saw, a year or so ago, was that 21% of all beer in the US was Bud Light.