Nashville Bits and Pieces

[downtownresident]

3 minutes ago, Tennessine said:

Ten years ago, Nashville came together after the Great Flood, and you never heard of any looting after billions of dollars in damage and 3 dozen lives were lost.

Now this.

What does this say about Nashville?

Given how coordinated this seems to be across the country, I’m not sure it says much of anything about Nashville. 

[titanhog]

This whole thing is so sad.

[Tennessine]

5 minutes ago, titanhog said:

This whole thing is so sad.

I'd feel better if Nashville didn't have a spineless mayor and if the country didn't have a fool for a leader who has done nothing but stir the pot upon taking office.

[smeagolsfree]

The Mayor and the Governor seemed to have been pretty blind if they thought this was going to be peaceful. A person interviewed on one of the TV stations said the rally would be peaceful but after that nothing is connected to the rally. Well, for goodness sake I read betwen the lines and knew this was going to happen and they should have already had the National Guard on stand by, and implimented community aid with neighboring community police depts.

From what I have seen on TV the police are doing a horrible job letting these thugs, black, white, and hispanic get away with this crap.

The TV station know where these people are doing the stuff but it seems the police do not.

[PianoKing03]

Regardless of political stance, race or any other factor, there is no way anyone with any sense of patriotism could take part in or look positively on what is happening. What happened is terrible, no doubt, but you don’t love your city, state, or country when you start looting, burning and attacking the way these “protestors” have. Stealing people’s belongings and setting fire to government buildings and people’s vehicles is not protesting at all. It’s foolishness, and I certainly hope it can be stopped before Nashville and our peer cities are hurt more than they already have been.

[The ATX]

There are some gutless Mayors and Governors across the country who are not doing or saying a damn thing right now.

[downtownresident]

Metro PD to their credit did get crowds dispersed pretty quickly once curfew hit. Hopefully tonight was it, and we can start clean up in the morning. 

[BnaBreaker]

It seems like the initial organized rallies against police brutality themselves, in the vast majority of cities including Nashville, were largely peaceful and focused on the issue at hand.  What is unfortunate is that those doing the vandalizing and looting afterward by and large seem to either be selfish assholes using this as an excuse to get some free stuff, people who are just generally disgruntled in life and wanted an excuse to lash out, or people who co-opted this event to rage about something else entirely.  Pretty sad all around, not just because of the damage done to city property and private businesses, but also because in the mind's of many the peaceful protestors (which were the vast majority of the crowds) will get lumped in with those doing the rioting, and as a result their important message will get washed out and damaged.  

Edited May 31, 2020 by BnaBreaker

[Nash_12South]

I totally agree that the peaceful message was largely lost in the aftermath. I was busy all Saturday and didn’t start watching the news until around 6 last night. I saw 30 seconds of peaceful protest news followed by hours of destruction. The organizers saying “we’re not responsible”, strikes many as folks who leave a camp fire smoldering in the woods disavowIng responsibility for the forest fire that followed. The aftermath wasn’t  exactly a surprise. It was widely predicted. Most of what I was seeing on my social media, last night, was marveling at police restraint and frustration on why they weren’t being far more forceful in stopping the destruction. Not the message that the peaceful organizers were aiming for, I’d suspect.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Nash_12South

[UTgrad09]

I am saddened and ashamed to see the violence and vandalism from yesterday evening. I was truly hoping that we would be better than that...but in hindsight, I'm not surprised that's how things went down.

I do have some thoughts about the matter -- but I'm still putting things together, so I'll just bullet point them.

• As has been stated, it appears that the organized protest itself seemed to be peaceful and had directed meaning. I think that the protest and the riot need to be considered as separate events. 
• I don't think the riots were spontaneous. Some of the people attending the protest had bad intentions from the start. I've also seen a lot of video of the protesters getting upset at people who start to instigate the riot. I also know from a number of friends who attended the protest that once it started to turn violent, the peaceful people got the hell out of dodge, leaving the rioters and plenty of curious gawkers and amateur cell phone reporters and crowd participants (those wanting to be part of the action, but not looking to get arrested). 
• A trend I've seen in a number of cities is the amount of white youth actively participating in the rioting -- and in some cases, initiating it. Various people have their theories -- is it Antifa? Were they bussed in? Are they white supremacists infiltrating the group to make black people look bad? Everyone seems to have their theories. To me it looked like a bunch of young angsty punks that were looking for an excuse to let out their pent up anger because daddy didn't hug them enough as a kid.
• Metro Police were slow to react. I think they didn't expect the amount of violence or the amount of people. The downtown precinct did not have adequate protection, nor did the City Hall/Courthouse. It's a real shame that the Courthouse was defaced with graffiti, and that several offices were set on fire. Thankfully it wasn't enough to harm the structure.
• Speaking of the Courthouse, one of the sad ironies that played out was watching a group of young people smash a plaque dedicated to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s, when 4,000 students PEACEFULLY marched to City Hall to protest segregated lunch counters downtown. Obviously rioters aren't going to stop and read what they are destroying, but I wonder how they would feel if they knew that they just vandalized the legacy of Diane Nash and John Lewis. 
• The looting and vandalism on Lower Broadway was....weird. From Sky5, it looked like it wasn't a large group of people...but just enough to feel emboldened to knock out some windows and just tear some crap up and steal a few things. Nothing got cleared out. Nothing got burned down. There was definitely some damage, but nothing looked devastated or destroyed. I think this is where Nashville largely escaped what other cities got. We have a lot of graffiti and some broken glass to clean up. Thankfully not a bunch of charred buildings or widespread destruction.
• Despite the slow response, I do want to give a special shout out to the MNPD. I know some people will say the slow response lead to a lot of destruction. And I understand that perspective. However, after watching numerous videos from around the country, I have to commend their discipline. If you haven't been watching in other places, go look at videos from places like Minneapolis (of course), New York, DC, and Louisville. There are countless videos of cops showing insane amounts of aggression towards protesters AND the media. Especially in New York and Minneapolis. I'm not talking about typical crowd dispersal tactics like MNPD used like tear gas and flash bangs. I'm talking about police lashing out at protesters -- punching them, swinging batons, using vehicles to aggressively move crowds, sprinting after people, firing pepper spray or paint at reporters, firing paint at citizens sitting on their own front porches, etc. In this tense environment, we can't have our police show that there is an immediate and justified reason why they are not on *our* side. I thought that MNPD showed a lot of composure last night. It showed that they are trained, and they knew what they were doing. They were not out of control. They were not raging on individuals and letting their emotions get to them. Perhaps there were some isolated incidents here or there, but from the video I consumed last night, they largely acted like professionals, and were prepared to take a hit and not lose their cool. I personally believe that this is the right way to handle things, and that a vulgar display of power, like seen in a number of other cities, will only cause more resentment and lead to more and larger protests as the confidence erodes in people's minds that the police are there to serve the public, and not the other way around.
• Of course, the longer this goes on nationwide, the more I fear that we won't be able keep the peace. We need to see a peaceful end to this, and soon.

[PaulChinetti]

Who would even trust the police anymore. 
 

Meant to link to this comment specifically. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/gtsso9/there_was_no_warning_whatsoever_police_shoot_tear/fsebyk0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Edited May 31, 2020 by PaulChinetti
Correction

[Pyramid Scheme]

24 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Who would even trust the police anymore. 
 

Meant to link to this comment specifically. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/gtsso9/there_was_no_warning_whatsoever_police_shoot_tear/fsebyk0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

RIP public trust.

14 hours ago, downtownresident said:

Given how coordinated this seems to be across the country, I’m not sure it says much of anything about Nashville. 

Yep. Seems like Antifa types to me. 

[Nash_12South]

You organize an event to allow understandably angry people to come together and constructively vent their grievances, whip them up with fiery speeches and then say - thanks, go home now...and expect nothing more? You can’t delink before and after for a lot of us.
I think I can figure out how to avoid being tear gassed or shot with rubber bullets. I just think both sides come out of yesterday feeling they were right all along. I don’t see progress coming.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Nash_12South

[ruraljuror]

1 hour ago, Pyramid Scheme said:

Yep. Seems like Antifa types to me. 

I've seen a good bit of Antifa blaming recently, but it seems to me that Blac Bloc is the more likely culprit here. To add to the confusion, both groups wear very similar costumes.

 Antifa is primarily about opposing fascism, white supremacists/nationalists, and neo Nazis. 

Black Bloc on the other hand loves some vandalism. They're anarchists whose central tenet is opposing police brutality - and piggybacking on other groups' protests in order to turn them into a riot is kind of their M.O.  

There are also several other groups (including the white supremacists that Antifa opposes) who are advocating that their members hijack these protest with the hopes of starting either a race war or the next civil war, depending on the goal of the particular 'organization.'

While it's certainly possible that you're right that some of these rioters were/are in fact 'Antifa types', based on the available evidence Antifa seems pretty unlikely to be the primary provocateurs here.

Plus, it should be noted that it's pretty convenient to scapegoat anti-fascists, especially if you're a fascist and/or if you know that Antifa is a buzz word that gets people even more riled up...that is, if your goal is to get people even more riled up.  Who would benefit from that though?

[JoeyX]

2 hours ago, ruraljuror said:

I've seen a good bit of Antifa blaming recently, but it seems to me that Blac Bloc is the more likely culprit here. To add to the confusion, both groups wear very similar costumes.

 Antifa is primarily about opposing fascism, white supremacists/nationalists, and neo Nazis. 

Black Bloc on the other hand loves some vandalism. They're anarchists whose central tenet is opposing police brutality - and piggybacking on other groups' protests in order to turn them into a riot is kind of their M.O.  

There are also several other groups (including the white supremacists that Antifa opposes) who are advocating that their members hijack these protest with the hopes of starting either a race war or the next civil war, depending on the goal of the particular 'organization.'

While it's certainly possible that you're right that some of these rioters were/are in fact 'Antifa types', based on the available evidence Antifa seems pretty unlikely to be the primary provocateurs here.

Plus, it should be noted that it's pretty convenient to scapegoat anti-fascists, especially if you're a fascist and/or if you know that Antifa is a buzz word that gets people even more riled up...that is, if your goal is to get people even more riled up.  Who would benefit from that though?

 

 

Antifa has a lengthy and recent track record of attempting to murder law abiding citizens. And now they're up to it again. Let's hope Trump and his officials put that evil group on ice.

Edited May 31, 2020 by JoeyX

[titanhog]

2 hours ago, ruraljuror said:

I've seen a good bit of Antifa blaming recently, but it seems to me that Blac Bloc is the more likely culprit here. To add to the confusion, both groups wear very similar costumes.

 Antifa is primarily about opposing fascism, white supremacists/nationalists, and neo Nazis. 

Black Bloc on the other hand loves some vandalism. They're anarchists whose central tenet is opposing police brutality - and piggybacking on other groups' protests in order to turn them into a riot is kind of their M.O.  

There are also several other groups (including the white supremacists that Antifa opposes) who are advocating that their members hijack these protest with the hopes of starting either a race war or the next civil war, depending on the goal of the particular 'organization.'

While it's certainly possible that you're right that some of these rioters were/are in fact 'Antifa types', based on the available evidence Antifa seems pretty unlikely to be the primary provocateurs here.

Plus, it should be noted that it's pretty convenient to scapegoat anti-fascists, especially if you're a fascist and/or if you know that Antifa is a buzz word that gets people even more riled up...that is, if your goal is to get people even more riled up.  Who would benefit from that though?

Sorry...but  Antifa calling itself "anti-fascist"  is purely ironic.  They are as fascist as any group out there.  They're not just about attacking white supremacists...they are pure anarchists bent on breaking up the system.  Fascism exists in all of these groups.

[smeagolsfree]

The blame game gets played often and I really think it is players from every side of the gambit. Yes, angry African Americans, antifa, white supremacist wanting a race war , anarchists and the list goes on.

To lay the blame on any single group would be wrong since there are multiple players, including a criminal element that just want to loot and some that just hate cops.

There are bad cops and I think a small minority, that give the rest a very bad name. Most I think truly got into law enforcement to make a difference. 

I do agree that reform has to take place, and I do not know what the answer is. I do know that none of the current politicians care about nothing but the next election. It has been that way for a long time in this country and I would be all for limiting everybody now to one term everywhere so they have to work their rear off while in office if they want to get anything done.

This is a tough time for our city, nation and the world. Unfortunately I dont see things getting better. Reading a book on Teddy Roosevelt right now  and the face of politics have not change any in the last hundred years and I read a book on John Adams and politics was the same back then.

They just didnt have twiiter and ugly facebook, TV and whatever other media you can think of.

[BnaBreaker]

20 minutes ago, titanhog said:

Sorry...but  Antifa calling itself "anti-fascist"  is purely ironic.  They are as fascist as any group out there.  They're not just about attacking white supremacists...they are pure anarchists bent on breaking up the system.  Fascism exists in all of these groups.

I'm certainly no fan of the way Antifa tends to operate, and if they were behind the riots yesterday in any way, then screw em... but I don't really understand what you mean here.  How can someone be both an anarchist and a fascist?  I'm not sure there could be two more opposing positions.  According to Merriam Webster the definition of fascism is: "a form of far-right, authoritarian ultra-nationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy."  I am in no way trying to defend them, because trust me, there are a lot of names I'd like to call them, but if we're going by the dictionary definition of the word then I don't really understand how the word "fascist" could be one of those words, unless you're just using the term as loose synonym for 'bad person' or something.

Edited May 31, 2020 by BnaBreaker

[ruraljuror]

2 hours ago, JoeyX said:

 

Antifa has a lengthy and recent track record of attempting to murder law abiding citizens. And now they're up to it again. Let's hope Trump and his officials put that evil group on ice.

What law abiding citizens has Antifa tried to kill?  I recognize that these guys are no angels, but I'm genuinely ignorant about any murder plots they've hatched.  I tried to do some research but this is all I came up with so far. Please excuse my ignorance if you've got info to share.

"Between 2010 and 2016, 53 percent of terrorist attacks in the United States were carried out by religious extremists — 35 percent by right-wing extremists and 12 percent by left-wing or environmentalist extremists, according to a University of Maryland-led consortium that studies terrorism."

 

[ruraljuror]

2 hours ago, titanhog said:

Sorry...but  Antifa calling itself "anti-fascist"  is purely ironic.  They are as fascist as any group out there.  They're not just about attacking white supremacists...they are pure anarchists bent on breaking up the system.  Fascism exists in all of these groups.

The first time that I heard about Antifa in the US was after the Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville, VA back in  2017.  That's where a bunch of right wing groups and militias like Project Europa, Proud Boys, 3 Percenters, Neo Nazis, White Supremacists, etc. got together with tiki torches to oppose the removal of a confederate statue on public property. At that rally, those "alt-right" groups were recorded marching with their torches while chanting "Blood and Soil" and "Jews Will Not Replace Us" which are both vintage fascist slogans from the original Nazis themselves.

Antifa has consistently been fighting those groups ever since, which is why I think it's fair to say that they accurately describe themselves as anti-fascist with no hint of "irony" as you say.

That said, Antifa are certainly not a group that I would want to join and they have definitely done some things that I would not support or condone in any way, but I do think it's a mistake to try and peg them as the "bad guys" (whether blaming them for the current riots or anything else that I'm aware that they're responsible for) when there are almost always worse guys on the other side of their fight. 

If forced to choose between siding with the guys punching Nazis or the Nazis themselves, I'm going with the Nazi punchers every time and I hope y'all would too. My grandfather (as did many of our relatives) made that same choice back in WWII.

But with regard to the current riots, can't we all at least agree that it's ok to simultaneously be on the side that opposes extrajudicial police-involved killings and the side that opposes rioting, vandalism, and looting? As far as I'm concerned, that's always the same side and that's the side that I'm on. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by ruraljuror

[downtownresident]

They’ve caught the arsonist that set fire to the courthouse. 
 

 

[titanhog]

4 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

I'm certainly no fan of the way Antifa tends to operate, and if they were behind the riots yesterday in any way, then screw em... but I don't really understand what you mean here.  How can someone be both an anarchist and a fascist?  I'm not sure there could be two more opposing positions.  According to Merriam Webster the definition of fascism is: "a form of far-right, authoritarian ultra-nationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy."  I am in no way trying to defend them, because trust me, there are a lot of names I'd like to call them, but if we're going by the dictionary definition of the word then I don't really understand how the word "fascist" could be one of those words, unless you're just using the term as loose synonym for 'bad person' or something.

You do realize you can be both at the same time...right?  People try to brand fascism as purely "right" and that it's some purely "nationalist" way of governing (even though Communist USSR was VERY nationalistic during Stalin's era)...but when you look at the definition of anarchy and fascism, you realize that both leftist and right-wingers practice elements of both.  Antifa is anarchist...but also very much practices forcible suppression of opposition.  There are people on the left and right who both have anarchist tendencies and want the system to break down and want no government interference in their lives...but both sides use fascist tactics to achieve their goals.  They are against liberty of expression...very much a fascist tactic.

I despise all of these groups (KKK, white supremacists, Antifa, etc) who continually use anarchist, fascist, terroristic concepts to get their way and instill fear.  Btw...I don't see much of anything in the US that is purely fascist...but there are pure anarchists on both the left and right.

2 hours ago, ruraljuror said:

The first time that I heard about Antifa in the US was after the Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville, VA back in  2017.  That's where a bunch of right wing groups and militias like Project Europa, Proud Boys, 3 Percenters, Neo Nazis, White Supremacists, etc. got together with tiki torches to oppose the removal of a confederate statue on public property. At that rally, those "alt-right" groups were recorded marching with their torches while chanting "Blood and Soil" and "Jews Will Not Replace Us" which are both vintage fascist slogans from the original Nazis themselves.

Antifa has consistently been fighting those groups ever since, which is why I think it's fair to say that they accurately describe themselves as anti-fascist with no hint of "irony" as you say.

That said, Antifa are certainly not a group that I would want to join and they have definitely done some things that I would not support or condone in any way, but I do think it's a mistake to try and peg them as the "bad guys" (whether blaming them for the current riots or anything else that I'm aware that they're responsible for) when there are almost always worse guys on the other side of their fight. 

If forced to choose between siding with the guys punching Nazis or the Nazis themselves, I'm going with the Nazi punchers every time and I hope y'all would too. My grandfather (as did many of our relatives) made that same choice back in WWII.

But with regard to the current riots, can't we all at least agree that it's ok to simultaneously be on the side that opposes extrajudicial police-involved killings and the side that opposes rioting, vandalism, and looting? As far as I'm concerned, that's always the same side and that's the side that I'm on. 

If they were focused on nothing but "punching Nazis"...I would agree with you.  But that is not the case.  Not even close.  There is enough information on them now to know their agenda goes way beyond "stopping fascism."

[BnaBreaker]

2 hours ago, titanhog said:

You do realize you can be both at the same time...right?  People try to brand fascism as purely "right" and that it's some purely "nationalist" way of governing (even though Communist USSR was VERY nationalistic during Stalin's era)...but when you look at the definition of anarchy and fascism, you realize that both leftist and right-wingers practice elements of both.  Antifa is anarchist...but also very much practices forcible suppression of opposition.  There are people on the left and right who both have anarchist tendencies and want the system to break down and want no government interference in their lives...but both sides use fascist tactics to achieve their goals.  They are against liberty of expression...very much a fascist tactic.

I despise all of these groups (KKK, white supremacists, Antifa, etc) who continually use anarchist, fascist, terroristic concepts to get their way and instill fear.  Btw...I don't see much of anything in the US that is purely fascist...but there are pure anarchists on both the left and right.

I don't think you really can though.  I'm not  trying to argue with you or anything, because I'm sure none of us here fit into any of these extreme categories anyway haha... but I mean, I'm just saying that these terms have very well defined definitions and can't really be used interchangeably.   Fascism is on the extreme right of the political spectrum while Communism is on the extreme left.  Anarchism isn't really even on the spectrum at all.  One of fascism's primary defining characteristics is rule by a very iron fisted authoritarian government, whereas anarchists, obviously, desire a world without authority altogether.  So to me, calling someone an anarchist fascist is like calling someone an impoverished billionaire.  They might share a secondary characteristic or two, but that doesn't make them the same thing, in the same way that a bicycle is not an airplane just because it has wheels and a seat.  

But anyway, I appreciate your response, and we can of course agree that all extremist groups should be shunned and avoided.  I'll shut up now though given that this thread probably isn't the place for a debate over political semantics. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by BnaBreaker

[grilled_cheese]

If you shriek ANTIFA three times he shows up.

 

Along with the hacker 4chan.

[nashmoney]

11 A-List Celebs Who Live in Nashville

Pretty interesting article. I knew about some of these, but some were some surprising

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/11-list-celebs-live-nashville-180627994.html