Nashville Bits and Pieces

[Nash_12South]

19 minutes ago, jmtunafish said:

Seriously, it's like someone is trying to compare today's Birmingham with 1980 Nashville.  And thanks to you guys for going in there and setting things straight.  You guys are awesome.

For what it's worth, I do wonder why Nashville doesn't have more upscale shopping, like at least another luxury department store.  Birmingham has Saks and Von Maur, but Nashville has just Nordstrom and a higher-end Belk.  Why there's no Von Maur in Nashville is a mystery.

All the upscale retail wanted to land in Green Hills and there was no place for them to go. The Mall at Green Hills was for years owned by entities that didn't have the resources to land the big tenants or expand the mall. There were no adjacent properties of the scale to attract them either. There were no great shopping areas outside of Green Hills that were close enough to the demographic they insisted they needed to be closest to.  Mall ownership finally changed to folks that were able to expand and attract upscale tenants about the time brick and mortar began to decline. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Nash_12South

[Rockatansky]

Nashville MSA GDP: $132B.
Birmingham MSA GDP: $62B.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Rockatansky

[nashvylle]

53 minutes ago, Rockatansky said:

Nashville MSA GDP: $132B.
Birmingham MSA GDP: $62B.

Does anyone know what GDP of Atlanta, Charlotte, Austin is?

[Skyscrapergeek]

I'll start with the obligatory "I love Birmingham but..."

I attended Samford University for two semester (86'-87') before transferring to Belmont. I loved Birmingham and at that time, it and Nashville were very much on the same "tier". Over the years I've been back to B'ham many times and driven through many more. I still love it for a lot of reasons, both new and old memories. Southside/Five Points South, Baby Does (RIP), Pete's Famous Hot Dogs (RIP), etc., etc., etc. It is a very charming city with its own style.

Buuuuuuuuuttt COME ON! All you need for the purposes of this discussion (the thread in question) is to apply the drive-by/eyeball test and compare both skylines and their evolutions.

jmtunafish, you're spot on with your 1980 comparison comment. The ironic thing is, while Birmingham has some old gems, its skyline is virtually the same as when I left in 1987. Now, skylines aren't everything (did I just say that?) but it's a huge indicator of economic and cultural progress and momentum. Facts are facts as you all have listed. Nashville has grown by leaps and bounds by nearly all indicators since 1987. You cannot say that about Birmingham.

[jmtunafish]

13 minutes ago, Skyscrapergeek said:

I'll start with the obligatory "I love Birmingham but..."

I attended Samford University for two semester (86'-87') before transferring to Belmont. I loved Birmingham and at that time, it and Nashville were very much on the same "tier". Over the years I've been back to B'ham many times and driven through many more. I still love it for a lot of reasons, both new and old memories. Southside/Five Points South, Baby Does (RIP), Pete's Famous Hot Dogs (RIP), etc., etc., etc. It is a very charming city with its own style.

Buuuuuuuuuttt COME ON! All you need for the purposes of this discussion (the thread in question) is to apply the drive-by/eyeball test and compare both skylines and their evolutions.

jmtunafish, you're spot on with your 1980 comparison comment. The ironic thing is, while Birmingham has some old gems, its skyline is virtually the same as when I left in 1987. Now, skylines aren't everything (did I just say that?) but it's a huge indicator of economic and cultural progress and momentum. Facts are facts as you all have listed. Nashville has grown by leaps and bounds by nearly all indicators since 1987. You cannot say that about Birmingham.

Assuming wikipedia can be trusted, the list of high rises for each city paints a gigantic picture.

Wikipedia lists 17 high rises (66+ meters) for Birmingham, the most recent being built in 1990.  There are no high rises under construction in Birmingham and none planned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Birmingham,_Alabama

For Nashville, wikipedia lists 38 high rises (80+ meters--not sure why the different standard), of which 24 have been built since 1990.  There are 13 high rises under construction in Nashville with 24 more planned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Nashville

[gnash_nelson]

Per the St. Louis FED website, for 2018 the GDP for Atlanta, Charlotte, and Austin are as follows:

Atlanta:       397B

Charlotte:  169B

Austin:         147B

[jmtunafish]

11 minutes ago, gnash_nelson said:

Per the St. Louis FED website, for 2018 the GDP for Atlanta, Charlotte, and Austin are as follows:

Atlanta:       397B

Charlotte:  169B

Austin:         147B

In 2017, here's how they stacked up per capita as found on wikipedia.  I'm too lazy to do the calculations for 2018.

• Atlanta:  $56,840
• Austin:  $63,839
• Birmingham:  $48,640
• Charlotte:  $58,064
• Nashville:  $60,806

Edited April 30, 2020 by jmtunafish

[bnacincy]

4 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

They have got to be kidding … Right? Just looked at the post and it looks as if the Nashville boosters have put The Ham in its rightful place. Not to take away from the Ham, but someone probably made a post about Nashville after visiting here 20 years ago and not even looking at what has happened since then.

So the Ham got slammed, huh?!

As far as the shopping goes, I remember going to the Galleria in Birmingham in 1987 with my brother and there was a Macy's there-this was 20 years before Nashville had one. Birmingham, like Memphis and here in Cincinnati is a city where the rich people tend to be richer and the poor poorer so the mentality was a little different and maybe that had something to do with the broader fashion sense. Remember 30 years ago Memphis had a Lord and Taylor at Oak Court Mall (not any more though). Also 30 years ago Nashville was smaller than Memphis or Birmingham and much smaller than Cincinnati. Now Nashville has blown past Memphis and Birmingham and it's Metro area is almost the same size as Cincy's.  With the influx of folks from California and New York the fashion gap is being closed rather rapidly.

[MLBrumby]

Nashville strikes me as a city that's historically been a place populated with boutique shoppers. I remember buying shirts/pants several times at a little shop on West End and there was a men's store in Green Hills. I don't think I ever entered the Mall at Green Hills until after I graduated. As for women, I don't remember as well, but there was a women's store across West End and one in Belle Meade. I believe there was another well-known boutique very close to the mall.  I'm not saying other cities don't have locally owned boutiques, but even Atlanta in the 1970s/80s had the large high-end chain department stores that filled that need for many local shoppers. Likewise, they were already in malls which were a destination for out of towners. 

[Nash_12South]

6 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Nashville strikes me as a city that's historically been a place populated with boutique shoppers. I remember buying shirts/pants several times at a little shop on West End and there was a men's store in Green Hills. I don't think I ever entered the Mall at Green Hills until after I graduated. As for women, I don't remember as well, but there was a women's store across West End and one in Belle Meade. I believe there was another well-known boutique very close to the mall.  I'm not saying other cities don't have locally owned boutiques, but even Atlanta in the 1970s/80s had the large high-end chain department stores that filled that need for many local shoppers. Likewise, they were already in malls which were a destination for out of towners. 

I think you are correct. I think a lot of that stems from the lack of an upscale mall and all the associated stores, to the scale of an Atlanta. I shopped in a lot of little converted houses growing up in Nashville.  Bandywood, in GH, was all little boutiques in little old houses to my early memories. My mom drug me thru them countless times.

[bnacincy]

Perhaps they should have kept Harding Mall open with the Dillard's there and closed the Green Hills Dillard's and put a Nieman Marcus in its place.

And maybe a Saks downtown-Cincinnati still has its downtown Saks (although the downtown Macy's has closed here).

Edited April 30, 2020 by bnacincy
content

[Nash_12South]

7 minutes ago, bnacincy said:

Perhaps they should have kept Harding Mall open with the Dillard's there and closed the Green Hills Dillard's and put a Nieman Marcus in its place.

And maybe a Saks downtown-Cincinnati still has its downtown Saks (although the downtown Macy's has closed here).

Unfortunately, Dillard's owned the land on which their store sat in GH. There were many attempts to change that. Nieman Marcus wanted to be here - in GH.

[bnacincy]

8 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

Unfortunately, Dillard's owned the land on which their store sat in GH. There were many attempts to change that. Nieman Marcus wanted to be here - in GH.

Almost no chance of getting  one now as NM seems to be on the verge of bankruptcy. Saks may be in trouble too like a lot of brick and mortar.

[JoeyX]

Wow! 

The betas turn alphas when it comes to a place like Birmingham.

What courage.

Edited April 30, 2020 by JoeyX

[BnaBreaker]

24 minutes ago, JoeyX said:

Wow! 

The betas turn alphas when it comes to a place like Birmingham.

What courage.

Let me guess... you conveniently consider yourself an "alpha"  

[JoeyX]

4 minutes ago, BnaBreaker said:

Let me guess... you conveniently consider yourself an "alpha"  

If I had time, I would straighten you out.

[grilled_cheese]

3 minutes ago, JoeyX said:

If I had time, I would straighten you out.

I will never financially recover from this.

[BnaBreaker]

37 minutes ago, JoeyX said:

If I had time, I would straighten you out.

  I'm assuming this is supposed to be intimidating, but it's actually cartoonishly hilarious!  Thanks for the laugh!

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by BnaBreaker

[BnaBreaker]

As for the Nashville v Bham debate, I don't know that it's really necessary to stamp out any instance of someone from a smaller city wanting to compare their city favorably to Nashville.  Why not let them dream and take it as a compliment that people from Birmingham see Nashville as a benchmark that is worth being compared to!  That being said though you guys are obviously correct that the two cities are in different tiers entirely.  The one thing I will give Birmingham is that I think Five Points is a higher quality urban neighborhood than any in Nashville outside the core. 

[JoeyX]

To actually come to another forum and beg for help.

Wow! Wow! Double Wow!

[JoeyX]

We'll see what the response is here the next time one of the beigelings post.

[East Side Urbanite]

Birmingham (for its population) offers a very impressive array of cultural/civic attractions, shopping/retail and restaurants/cafes/bars. In that respect, it "punches way above its weight." But perhaps with the exception of the cultural/civic amenities (which the Ham's collectively are only slightly below ours) ... Nashville is still ahead.

 

The main things the Ham has that we don't is 1. lots of old-school commercial/industrial/retail masonry buildings and density with those; 2. a handful of gorgeous traditional per-World War II-constructed towers of 200 feet or more (we have zero but the Vanderbilt tower will give us one, notwithstanding the age); and 3. a massive sea (as found in Memphis) of gridded/sidewalked/curbed streetscape — and attractive, too.

 

I do envy Birmingham's one-two punch of zoo and art museum. Nashville is toward the bottom of the list of mid-sized cities (and I've been to a lot of the zoos and art museums in those cities) in this category. But what we lack in that area, we compensate for in music-related museums and performance venues.

 

If Nashville ever got its act together and 1. overhauled its rough streetscapes in various districts (WeHo, Sylvan Heights, Woodbine, The Nations); 2. created lots more brick and stone retail buildings like the one currently under construction in Hillsboro Village (very nice) and 3. saw constructed a  few more 250-foot-plus high-rises like the Vanderbilt gothic-collegiate tower ... this city would be quite something. The lack of  major mass transit would not hurt as much in that scenario.

Edited April 30, 2020 by East Side Urbanite

[smeagolsfree]

3 hours ago, JoeyX said:

We'll see what the response is here the next time one of the beigelings post.

Oh we have seen it before as we use to be on the bombing end of comments. Oh the comparisons some on this forum made to Atlanta and Charlotte in the early days of UP or SSP and SSC 15  or so years ago.

 

[dragonfly]

16 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

They have got to be kidding … Right? Just looked at the post and it looks as if the Nashville boosters have put The Ham in its rightful place. Not to take away from the Ham, but someone probably made a post about Nashville after visiting here 20 years ago and not even looking at what has happened since then.

I visit Birmingham several times per year since my sister and her family are there. I know it pretty well, and like it a lot, for quite different reasons than my fondness for Nashville. Gonna go have a look and comment. My username on that site is groovamos.

[Nathan_in_DC]

10 hours ago, JoeyX said:

We'll see what the response is here the next time one of the beigelings post.

Yeah! Those beigelings! Get 'em!

(What's a beigeling?)