Si7i

This is only word of mouth/ speculation but some on council are getting skittish of the scope revamp proposal because it potentially competes with McMalls redevelopment. Which I do not fully understand because the mall renderings did not look like an arena of any sorts but at most a conference or event hall type of venue. I see the scope revamp getting kicked down the road entirely.

Looks like the owner is going to ask the city to allow a drive-through and low-density development by subleasing the plot to multiple suburban restaurants. Seems as if half the property already has a potential leaser. The old listing still showed the former proposed apartment development, as of March 27th the listing was updated on Loopnet with these new low-density renderings. I hope the city doesn't budge on this and only allows multi-family or mixed-use. I miss when the Piliot used to dig into this stuff.

I move to AZ this June, I will be abusing this route. I’ve been waiting on such an announcement!

Who had a hospital on their bingo card for Military Circle? With the VA behind this, I’m pretty sure this will get built. It's also will be interesting to see more people eyeing Military Circle for development being so centrally located. I wonder if anyone else will come out of the woodwork? How might this affect the other proposals? https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/new-va-medical-center-proposed-for-military-circle-mall-site/

I feel like this board might secretly be driving local news conversations. Another interesting article about Newport News Williamsburg Airport future viability. https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/newport-news/can-passenger-travel-at-newport-news-williamsburg-airport-survive-long-term-economist-expresses-doubt/

I would not go as far to say that our airport cannot sustain, I think what our passenger numbers are showing is that the general population is ready to travel again. I in my opinion despite the areas lacking I think international travel will be very successful here specifically Europe because of VB and OBX. Richmond relies heavily on business travel, which has not totally rebounded due to Covid. However tourism and destination travel has and is growing due to people no longer putting off vacations. As our metro continues to push slowly towards 2 million people I think we will naturally see new developments in both destinations, passenger growth, and physical developments. At the 2 million mark is when metro areas tend to reach a critical mass point. ORF should have never had lower passenger numbers than RIC due to our differing populations. People tend to overate Richmond because it is both the Captial and the central city of its region. ORF crossed 4 million passengers for 2022 with its two competitors in the HR region and RIC crossed a little over 4.1 million being its regions only central airport. The Richmond forum talked about populations statistics a lot as well. I have to say I would take those with a grain of salt the growth always happens faster in the outlying areas. Norfolk’s census population statistics are always wrong and readjusted. Typically past leadership would fight population loss statistics but they have not done so this time. HR’s growth will be mostly Chesapeake- Suffolk and outlying areas as water is a central feature in our region that inhibits us to continually spread in all directions like Richmond. Cheap housing is a large factor in growth and we simply don’t have that anymore unless you’re in Suffolk or Elizabeth city. Most people who arnt from HR are shocked when traveling from VB to NFK to the other 7 cities is seamless. People outside the area think the cities are disconnected. Even with the developments of PHF most likely will lead to it loosing commercial status in the long run increasing ORF traffic even more.

Make no mistake The Cordish Company is excellent at entertainment complexes and casinos. I’ve been to a few of their properties and they have some deep pockets and entertainment knowledge. They participated in watersides redevelopment in the hopes of future development of a hotel or Appartments. All of there other properties either have hotel components, apartment, or casinos. The waterside you see today is just a place holder for that property by the company. Either Cordish is soured by city leadership opposing a tower development there (and the Casino by harbor park), they are waiting for this current casino deal to fall apart, waiting for city leadership to change, or running out their contractual obligation to waterside. But in no way does current waterside set the tone for what they are capable of. Waterside was destined to fail because of city leadership. Cordish was told by city officials that a they would get first pick at a casino, I have no idea why different proposals weren’t vetted and Pamunkey were first picks. I honestly don’t think they have any financing for the full 300million requirement same as the VB arena. Our city leadership went with it because they thought they were legit and now we’re in a place we’re deals shouldn’t be falling apart, especially ones that went through legislation hoops. Norfolks city government has been acting small time since Fraim left and even worse since we lost our city manager to Charlotte.

I do like to follow Richmond's threads just to see what's going on up the river. It will be very interesting to see how both RIC and ORF develop in such close proximity. Just looking over both threads the discussions are strikingly similar. It is also interesting seeing both airports have similar development plans and current build-outs. ORF finalized its new concourse A expansion and is courting through anchors for an attached 150-room airport hotel proposal and will be entering into construction within the next three years. ORF has been denied a parallel runway due to its proximity to a naval base but will be resubmitting within the next five years and could always see denial again. My assumption is that ORF officials were waiting for the airport to break the 4 million passenger mark which it did in 2022. Overall ORF may have a larger population draw but faces larger competition than RIC. ORF competes with both NAS (AMC Passenger Terminal which operates international flights daily to Africa and Europe) and large disincentive for the military use of ORF and of course PHF. It does seem as though RIC has an upper hand on including outside transportation planning if I am not mistaken, and has the head start on construction. From news reports ORF did not expect the passenger growth it has seen in 2022 and not playing catch up with construction and planning, even taking out a burger king to consolidate an area for transitions for international flights and domestic ones. RIC also seems to always stay ahead of ORF in passenger numbers by looking at historical data. So if ORF is breaching 4 million I can only imagine what RIC's counts will be this year. I think both airports continuing to grow is a great thing and ultimately brings more attention to both regions. I feel like in a perfect world there would just be one mega airport between the two regions with rail transit.

I agree, of all the redevelopment projects I actually don’t have much faith in the mall’s redevelopment looking at market trends. Retail is way to saturated in the Hampton Roads area. Office space conversion is also highly unlikely because of declining demand. That mall has also unfortunately been plagued by very bad management. They should have focused on a mix of entertainment options inside the mall not just retail. There has been close to zero reinvestment into updating the structure and bringing it up to date to attract more people. Tearing down the mall structure and leaving the parking garage and developing livable space on top is the only option currently unless the city replaces it with an entertainment venue such as an arena or pulls a large scale employer or developer which is unlikely.

You guys are slacking, I didn’t see any talking about ORFs upcoming expansion plans. The airport is in talks with a few hotel brands that are supposedly interested in a completely private development of an attached airport hotel to include at minimum 150 hotel rooms. The city of Norfolk is hurting for hotel rooms because the airport is causing low vacancy rates in downtown Norfolk and the city as a whole, causing people to stay in other cities that want to just enjoy downtown. The expansion of concourse A seems to be nearing finalization as well. Things are also looking optimistic in regards to a second runway proposal that may be resubmitted in the next 5 years. There was a heavy focus on adding capacity for international flights and new carriers because all the gates are nearing capacities so and expansion is imminent. Just to name a few things that were discussed in a previous city council meeting work session, none of which made the local news.

This seems like great news. Norfolk is such an interesting case having technically three airports in the region. Thousands of people fly out of NAS Norfolk which is the east coast hub for Europe and Africa (Seattle being the west coasts for the Pacific) with domestic flights and international. Then across the water you have Newport News, I feel like what ever numbers we see on ORF are not encompassing the whole region, I think this parallels how if all the cities were combined our population stats would propel us up some lists. I think ORF achieving great numbers despite so much immediate competition is a great indicator for what is to be expected in the future.

I wouldn’t say the city has flatlined, we are just in uncertain times with the only certain thing being residential demand. The issue with Norfolk currently is we don’t have a fraim to use pull and promote us a major city with political connections. Putting my political opinion upfront I am a democrat but Norfolk and it’s council spend all of their council meetings on social welfare programs, bike lanes, reducing speed limits, putting nimbys first and saying no to positive developments. There needs to be a balance with some seeking economic growth. current mayor is a joke has no follow through with projects or vision. I could be wrong though I’m biased Sude note I found this comedy skit set in Downtown Norfolk to change the mood

Here I always figured it was because most of our newer office towers are built on very large parking decks that although count towards floors require less height between floors. Wells Fargo and Suntrust come to mind. Where as I believe Richmond with its hilly higher elevations does some underground parking with more floors being dedicated to residential or commercial use. Out current leadership would never stand up and put a foot down to require more.

You are right BFG I think that is the best expansion option. It is nice to see that they are following their master plan exactly. I think the Norfolk Airport Authority has some ambitious plans with a lot riding on them getting a second runway approved. I think it depends on regional leadership pushing for the airport vs little creek. But do not feel as though we will see leadership like that for some years.

We don’t know anything, I was advocating for the city of VB to use tact. VB leadership it’s self made it political in only caring about the financial gain and not being in anyway remorseful, even if the police are in the 100 percent right at what point is it acceptable to not show sympathy or support for a lost life. Why does it become and issue of his cousin doing the wrong thing at the wrong time so he should have died? I don’t see it as a left or right issue but the city failing to see growth opportunities and squandering them on the wrong discussions no leadership in this area ever looks at the bigger picture. I hope Norfolk gets the festival not because I hate VB but because this area needs something it’s missing an identity and leadership. see my post above.

I do not idolize Pharrell in the slightest, especially when pertaining to his shady business practices in the early 2000s in the music industry (but that’s another topic). I also do not see VB as a red headed child of the area. I actually see and explain the HR area to people all over the country as one city. I do think your own bias made you interpret my post in your own opinionated way. I will try and reexplain. Pharrell is a businessman first and a musician second. Many metro areas that have had pivotal growth have had a powerful person whether it be a mayor, businessman, or conglomerates spark growth. Typically someone or some business that was grown within the metropolitan area. The city or metro then further promotes the growth of this catalyst (Pharrell) who wants to create more for the area. Chesapeake has Dollar Tree, Norfolk had a Fraim and Norfolk Southern. Alexander has been the most disappointing mayor Norfolk could ever have, he has no political pull or leadership whatsoever despite being a former congressman. What I was trying to point out is that VB is squandering it’s opportunities because it is not playing the correct political game in promoting growth. Politicians lie, conservative, democratic, left, right, centrist, they all lie to get some type of gain. What I’m saying is VBs leadership wanted to stand so hard on their conservative values that they did not even put the effort into crafting a well thought out statement. A simple statement, that showed understanding of the situation. They did not need to state who was right or wrong just a statement that did not elude to financial benefits being the only reason to wanting to correct the situation. They did not need to dismantle their police force or set any policy what would ever or pass a law that would make a democrat happy. VB leadership seems to be senile and hard right, when playing businesses games and making big boy business decisions you do not put you political views into it you make the right call that has the best outcome. All they had to do was craft a statement that eluded that they cared about the lost of human life though their own government processes.(I said the same thing in my previous post but it was politicized). Now this topic has become a right vs left when that’s not the issue that I’m seeing, but everything on the internet devolves into that. And I’m sorry but you’re dead wrong in saying that him politicizing his cousins death is the wrong way to trying to solve his problem. Politicizing issues is the only way problems in this country get solved because people don’t care about people anymore. People only care about issues when they effect them. Example what do you do see on the news here all the time? Car break-ins, why because neighbors get to get her and call wavy and then because they are on the news and it’s now an issue their neighborhood gets more patrols or cameras etc etc. Flint? There’s so much more I want to address but I’m sure my point will be missed again.

The thing that’s bugs me politically is that VBs officials heads are too big to even lie and put a statement out that they would “Ensure what happened to his cousin won’t happen again”. The posturing is bad that you can’t even lie. If Norfolk gets miltary circle redevelopment off the ground I do see VB town center stagnating in the future being in close proximity, especially with no other transportation options viable. Which means the only thing VB has going for it is it’s school system and the oceanfront. I could see Chesapeake’s town center overtaking town center easily because they have a true corporate backer. But only time will tell.

All VB had to do was say that what happened was wrong and an avoidable death in a press release statement, and state that they would take action in preventing future police brutality. But you know what VB did they doubled down on their conservativism, which isn’t inheritanly bad, but their way of going about it and basically not acknowledging their police departments wrong doing is now costing the city millions because of simple political posturing. If VB continues down this conservative path it’s risks losing a lot more. No one in this region is playing the long term leadership role in trying to promote growth though playing the right political games.

When I say fix the schools, I mean a total expensive restructuring. I’ve been though the Norfolk school system and I’ve seen the big issues going to both Booker T. Washington and Norview. We couldn’t even use our tennis courts and other faculties in the building because no money was distributed to that particular school, teachers were often low quality as well. I saw students turn into your typical stereo typical interpretation of the urban community. While going to this school as kids we wondered why our high school was still operational in its current condition this was in 2011. If you look at Norfolk’s school system there seems to be to many schools and and a fear of creating bigger concentrations of schools. The system is basically drowning in itself with most money going to buildings that are falling apart sporadically placed thought the city to support a city population that the city no longer has. This again leads to the need for leadership that needs to come in and shake things up and do city wide smart redistributing using stats and research on where schools need to actually be. Not on how the neighborhood was when it was build in the 50s I’ve traveled other places and experienced that I’ve had a lower education than my peers and often at times feel like I learned nothing in my high school experience. I have some true teacher horror stories that I’m pretty sure would be picked up by a news story if they were known about teachers that taught within the NPS system and daily building issues and administrative structures. Fixing the school I agree will come with more development only because of more funding, but a leader could change things and make the system a priority, because education is a pivotal tool that could make Norfolk a better city.

I actually feel the opposite way. I’m currently visiting Norfolk for two weeks from Seattle-Tacoma area and it was a big relief to come back to the area after 4 years and not see large swaths of the central business district with dead pockets of boarded up businesses like I’ve seen in Downtown Portland and Downtown Seattle. It seems as though downtown Norfolk weathered the pandemic really well compared to some other cities. But I do agree with your point in Downtown Norfolk becoming more of a lifestyle area to live vs big businesses being attracted but I would rather it become a super attractive place for people to want to live so that it can continue to grow. I do like the developments in Chesapeake and VB but I do feel as though eventually they will plateau compared to places with many draws such as the oceanfront and downtown Norfolk and I think others are starting to see that. The Taco Bell still being on the corner in town center really sold that for me along with the lack of transportation options, NoVas centers actually have that. I think once something is done with military and you have two destinations at the end of the Light rail line you will see even more demand. side note if Norfolk just really put money into its school systems total overhauls, there would be no competition. Norfolk has a real lack of leadership holding it back and it doesn’t seem to be the city itself so many simple things could have been done to increase grow in all areas. The city needs to fix its school system, then after that end single family zoning. I can see why Norfolk’s population didn’t get the boat we thought it would I drove though so many neighborhoods and it seems the city is still focused on bulldozing unsightly properties with so many empty lots (that had Appartments, homes, or small warehouses on them before I left) to hope for future development that never comes when those buildings could have been renovated or restored adding to character of a neighborhood. All those empty lots I would loosen zoning resurrections for higher density or incentivize or make a fast track option for developers to cut costs for them. Just my 2cents I’ve lived all over the country and always end up coming back because apparently I’m one of the few people who actually likes it here because I’ve lived in some pretty terrible cities.

Just call it Norva Beach, there I did it, identity crisis solved.

Macarther Center still has failed to innovate or move with the times. I believe the mall has very bad management thinking that that location alone would carry the mall. I knew the mall had bad management when they started to lose food court options and in response rushed to fill spaces with subpar offerings (like that chicken place that used to be in the corner by the movie theater) either it's being ran into the ground dilibretly or someone doesn't know how to do their job. Not to mention the malls awful design and waste of space when it comes to street presence and being inviting. Declining retail sales is a cop out & everyone knows it. Lynnhaven got rid of its second story for a reason focusing on quality over quantity and added stores that draw people with entertainment such as Dave and busters etc. Pembroke even redesigned itself somewhat. Mac mall management has just been milking it, what kind of upgrades have been put into the mall since it's been opened? MAC mall used to have jeepers, animal jungle stuff that drew people. Their management will not change just being realistic Mac mall is gonna slide into a dangerous downward pattern then the city will get involved making things worse. I really want star wood to prove me wrong. I've been all over the country and the best managed malls that I've seen were all run by Simon (the people that built the outlet mall). Here I am ranting again

Didn’t know if these had been posted here yet, but the renderings look pretty good. Chrysler is even getting redone, srry for the low quality they were screen shots of a video on mobile.