Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[videtur quam contuor]

6 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Been years for me too. I rode it once to Miami to catch a flight to South America in 1979.  It took 12 hours. Looking back, it seemed acceptable to take that long on buses. I remember, also, that we used to ship by bus to smaller towns throughout the South. That was actually very reliable service and would never take more than several hours. We used an old station across from The Federal Court House on West Trade.

As far as the city owning the land where it is, must've been early 70s.  I bet you remember the controversy when they bought that old building just east of it from the Greek owners, then tore it down.  It's still a vacant lot, now too (?)

50+years ago n my first job here in Charlotte I took items ordered from our company to the bus station you identified to ship to customers in out of the way locations. UPS and FEDEX were unknown or infants in that period. Chesnee-Fingerville, Morven, Weldon I recall to this day as destinations and they are unlikely to be served today. One especially relevant point about our bus station in that period was that it was the only commercial business open 24 hours that I was aware of.* There may have been a 24 hour pharmacy but of the convenience stores, gas stations, and other usual suspects the bus station was the only one. If one needed ANYthing in the overnight hours planning ahead was the only answer. (I experienced this myself so can vouch for the situation)

Police, fire, hospital, yes, but I speak here of commercial.

*Athens restaurant-Was it 24 hours open (maybe)?

 

[davidclt]

2 hours ago, videtur quam contuor said:

Prior to that, ummm...long time. 1986 I recall, Tampa to St Petersburg, Florida.

Was that the longest two days of your life? Probably had to go to Palatka or Two Egg en route.

[davidclt]

2 hours ago, videtur quam contuor said:

Lots of love all over this site for passenger rail, justifiably so. Intercity bus travel is double that of Amtrak. Draw your inferences and conclusions regarding this fact and the amount of interest by legislators, public at large, voters, and planners.

https://www.governing.com/now/intercity-bus-service-gets-no-respect-from-government

I rode a bus from a hotel in Vancouver to sidewalk destination in downtown Seattle in 2019. QuickBus is name of company. Quite a few Asians on board my bus. Prior to that, ummm...long time. 1986 I recall, Tampa to St Petersburg, Florida.

In 1984, my grandmother (who lived in Charlotte) brought my cousins two of which lived in Charlotte and two who would visit Charlotte for two weeks every summer from Bethlehem, Pa. down to visit us in Central Florida. We went to Fort Wilderness at Disney World, "girls" in one mobile home, "boys" in the other (those days are looooooooooooong gone) and a trip to the park. The females got the car with AC, the males got the '73 Impala with 4/60 AC (four windows, 60 MPH). Anyway, after the excitement of a week in Florida, my grandmother took my middle brother and me, back with all of them on the train from Lakeland to Columbia, SC in coach service. My cousin from Pa. made a big deal about the Häagen-Dazs ice cream served in the dining car (we had whatever was on sale at Publix and Farm Stores which was the fanciest ice cream I had ever had). I remember having a cup of coffee in the wee hours of the morning at the Columbia Amtrak station before we made our way over to the Columbia Greyhound bus station (before sunrise) to get an intercity bus from Columbia to Charlotte. I still remember looking up Gervais St. to the state house and feeling conspicuous.

Edited December 21, 2023 by davidclt
Häagen-Dazs

[videtur quam contuor]

Drove family member to Amtrak station yesterday morning for 6:45 am departure to Raleigh on the New York bound train. Train was sold out. Some seats available upon departure but complement of train filled at next few intermediate stops. "Everyone must take your assigned seats" says conductor upon boarding due to status. Also two Lime scooters outside the front door of station in addition to taxi and many cars. 

While boarding, a freight came through on the adjoining track to passenger train at 30+ miles an hour and I was surprised at the speed in the yard. It encouraged some hustle in those boarding. Pro tip: Take scheduled train that has Business Class car. First call for boarding plus other extras and for such a paltry amount of money (to/from Raleigh). Conductor was exceedingly pleasant and helpful, assisting passengers with boarding and bags. Numerous passengers with some age on them. (wink!)

[ajfunder]

Another year has gone by and no movement on Gateway. Any chance this kicks off in 2024 or is Charlotte doomed to just not do anything?

[CLT Development]

19 hours ago, ajfunder said:

Another year has gone by and no movement on Gateway. Any chance this kicks off in 2024 or is Charlotte doomed to just not do anything?

Who even knows. I was given a confident response about 5 months ago that a temporary Amtrak station will open uptown in 2024, but it was contingent on the Greyhound station being moved to University City and as we all know Renee Johnson killed that. Development-wise, I'm imagining they are waiting for rates to come down.,

Edited December 29, 2023 by CLT Development

[KJHburg]

I take one of these Cirque du Solieil tents for a temporary train station at this point.  

[Richhamleigh, DC]

Seriously.  I can't image ridership not going up (dramatically) if people could step off a NC Rail train and then walk where they wanted uptown or take the streetcar, or take the streetcar to the LRT.  Come on, Charlotte. 

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, Richhamleigh, DC said:

Seriously.  I can't image ridership not going up (dramatically) if people could step off a NC Rail train and then walk where they wanted uptown or take the streetcar, or take the streetcar to the LRT.  Come on, Charlotte. 

Seems like Tepper could even help out since it's all but guaranteed a crowd "stepping off" in his backyard.

Edited January 3 by Windsurfer

[ArchiCLT]

On 1/1/2024 at 9:45 PM, KJHburg said:

I take one of these Cirque du Solieil tents for a temporary train station at this point.  

when KJ unknowingly just leaked Tepper's new renderings of the stadium...

[KJHburg]

6 minutes ago, ArchiCLT said:

when KJ unknowingly just leaked Tepper's new renderings of the stadium...

would that classify as a 3 ring circus? 

[davidclt]

22 hours ago, KJHburg said:

would that classify as a 3 ring circus? 

Then that makes Tepper a ?

Edited January 4 by davidclt

[Richhamleigh, DC]

Not sure if anyone caught it. And I can't remember where I saw it. But I think it was on one of those pages that talk about the NFL. I know, can I be any more specific? Ha ha. In any case, they were listing the country's worst stadiums and panther stadium came in second to last.  But they mentioned the 800 million dollar investment in the gateway, and how big a difference that project would make when and if the stadium is rebuilt. It was pretty impressive to read.

Edited January 5 by Richhamleigh, DC

[Poo Diddy]

Back before Greensboro's depot was refurbished Amtrak used Norfolk Southern's (Southern Railway's) building at the Pomona Yard as the depot.  Little one story building with the control tower for the yard.  It was far from glamorous but it functioned.

Along with many of y'all I sure hope the powers that be work to get a temporary depot setup in Charlotte.  The last mile connectivity from Charlotte's current depot into uptown is atrocious.  Greensboro's Pomona Yard had similar connection problems to downtown, but back in the 80's -early 2000's they rolled up the streets in downtown at 5pm.  I would find it hard to believe even a temporary station in Charlotte would not boost ridership. 

[Reverie39]

14 hours ago, Richhamleigh, DC said:

Not sure if anyone caught it. And I can't remember where I saw it. But I think it was on one of those pages that talk about the NFL. I know, can I be any more specific? Ha ha. In any case, they were listing the country's worst stadiums and panther stadium came in second to last.  But they mentioned the 800 million dollar investment in the gateway, and how big a difference that project would make when and if the stadium is rebuilt. It was pretty impressive to read.

Kinda surprised to see it that low, I mean it's old and nothing super special about the stadium itself, but the location is among the best in the entire league. If the stadium can be properly upgraded and Gateway station built just down the road it could be one of the top NFL experiences.

[jthomas]

2 hours ago, Poo Diddy said:

Along with many of y'all I sure hope the powers that be work to get a temporary depot setup in Charlotte.  The last mile connectivity from Charlotte's current depot into uptown is atrocious.  Greensboro's Pomona Yard had similar connection problems to downtown, but back in the 80's -early 2000's they rolled up the streets in downtown at 5pm.  I would find it hard to believe even a temporary station in Charlotte would not boost ridership. 

 

Count this Greensboro resident as someone who would make more day/overnight trips to Charlotte (for museum visits, games, etc.) if I could get off the train in uptown. Right now, I go to Raleigh instead because of how many places are within walking distance of Union Station there.

[ajfunder]

I’ve been to 9 NFL Stadiums and I honestly don’t see how BofA scored that low. 

 

 

 

[CLT Development]

On 1/4/2024 at 9:16 PM, Richhamleigh, DC said:

Not sure if anyone caught it. And I can't remember where I saw it. But I think it was on one of those pages that talk about the NFL. I know, can I be any more specific? Ha ha. In any case, they were listing the country's worst stadiums and panther stadium came in second to last.  But they mentioned the 800 million dollar investment in the gateway, and how big a difference that project would make when and if the stadium is rebuilt. It was pretty impressive to read.

I hate to say it but theres absolutely no fudgeing way, I've been to 12 NFL Stadiums, this would be an absurd statement. We have escalators, I've been to ones that dont... THIS YEAR.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:20 PM, CLT Development said:

I hate to say it but theres absolutely no fudgeing way, I've been to 12 NFL Stadiums, this would be an absurd statement. We have escalators, I've been to ones that dont... THIS YEAR.

I'd say BofA is pretty equivalent to Miami's Hard Rock Stadium, and it underwent a $350m renovation in 2015, and the location and situation is much worse. It also isn't going anywhere with the new F1 track, Paddocks and club renovations surrounding the stadium.

[kermit]

This isn’t really the right thread but… 

Brightline has been operating its West Palm to Orlando airport service since late September. Based on this mysterious internet post (I have not evaluated its accuracy, these are the first Brightline Orlando ridership numbers I have seen), Brightline carried more passengers from MCO to South Florida than all airlines to all S Florida airports combined (MIA, FLL, PBI) in October. Nearly 80,000 rode Brightline from MCO to S Florida in October. This is a bit of a surprise to me since the only Orlando station is at the airport, convenient to nothing other than flights and park transportation, so its not really the case that Brightline is better located than the airport at the Orlando end of the line. 

I believe this is nearly double monthly ridership between Charlotte and Raleigh (not a surprise since Brightline ran 16 trains per day between MCO and Miami in October)

https://www.patreon.com/posts/orlando-to-south-96537219

Edited January 16 by kermit

[Matthew.Brendan]

Spent some time in north Miami over the holidays and I was going to comment on seeing the Brightline trains running, they looked great!

[KJHburg]

was just in West Palm and Miami and they have signs at some grade crossings warning people the trains are travelling at 80 mph (Brightline)     Though Brightline stops only at the Orlando airport for now that makes it convenient for Orlando bound international and domestic travellers to reach south Florida easily as the south Florida stations are located in the various downtowns.  Miami's is right by the PeopleMover elevated trains and easy connections to Metrorail Miami.  In West Palm the station is right downtown dittos for Fort Lauderdale.  Plus even without a car taxis and ubers and shuttle buses for hotels are very present in Orlando.  

Brightline station in West Palm between the large Rosemary Square retail office residential downtown and the rest of the downtown WPB core.  

Edited January 17 by KJHburg

[Richhamleigh, DC]

What Brightline is doing isn't new, we've just forgotten how to do it.  Local / state governments should be partnering with private rail carriers -- and entice them to start service in exchange for real estate development rights around station locations.  

[kermit]

Katie Peralta has a “nearly six years after groundbreaking” update on Gateway here: https://www.axios.com/local/charlotte/2024/01/28/charlotte-uptown-train-gateway-station

Nothing in it we haven’t already discussed. No one knows when it will get built. No one is explaining delays, no one is taking responsibility for the delays, no one seems to be particularly upset about it. This situation sucks.

Quote

What's happening: Currently, the developers are in the process of finishing up the master plan for the project, according to Joe Bender, ReMet's director of commercial development.

• Ultimately the city would have to sign off on this plan. 
• The city will work with the developers to integrate the transit components into the overall development, per the city.

Yes, but: The city was supposed to review a master development plan for the project in late 2022, the Observer reported at the time. There's still no timeline yet for when that'll happen.

 

Edited January 28 by kermit

[kdub1]

15 hours ago, kermit said:

Katie Peralta has a “nearly six years after groundbreaking” update on Gateway here: https://www.axios.com/local/charlotte/2024/01/28/charlotte-uptown-train-gateway-station

Nothing in it we haven’t already discussed. No one knows when it will get built. No one is explaining delays, no one is taking responsibility for the delays, no one seems to be particularly upset about it. This situation sucks.

 

Failed leadership all around. They have been planning this thing for 22 years with only DOT's part to show for it. At this point, Atlanta has a better chance of rectifying its Peachtree albatross before the Gateway full build. I mean, I remember being a student at NC State in the early 2000s  when Union Station wasn't even a concept (the closest thing was a proposed Hillsborough Street station for the failed TTA project) and we've seen how far the eastern end of the Piedmont Corriddor has come along.