Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[Crucial_Infra]

On 11/10/2023 at 3:12 PM, ertley said:

Now I hope the city will demolish those pointless, desperate attempt to gentrify North Tryon pillar/gateways

City will never take those down. Urban planet needs to organize a demonstration and topple them ourselves. /half joking 

[RANYC]

This Monday's gripes: 

• Still disappointed that the Barringer/Hall House was torn down, but excited to see the replacement apartment complex completed.  It's filling up more of the block than Hall House did, and with the choice of exterior materials, it should make for a nice addition to the north end of Tryon - certainly much nicer than much of the mid-rise construction happening throughout center city. 
• Amazing how little residential is getting built in Uptown, however.  Daniel Corp project in 4th ward on the site of the bread factory appears to have stalled.  Brooklyn Village on now demolished Walton Plaza is a question mark.  I marvel at the residential product in 4th ward and bemoan that more 4th ward replicas aren't under construction in many other parts of Center City.
• It's criminal that this city hasn't yet installed traffic calming and pedestrian prioritization mechanisms on the stretch of South Tryon between Brooklyn Village Ave and Hill Street.  There should at least be a raised crosswalk as folks from Legacy Union walk across to grab lunch at Ally Center.  Amazing to me the animals racing their unmuffled vehicles through such a dense area...
• One core improvement I'd like to see at Truist Field is to replace the God-forsaken black chain-link fence along 4th Street adjacent to the venue.  Missed opportunity there and a visual embarassment in the guts of the city.

[KJHburg]

Daniel Corp. apartments in 4th Ward is still on as they only do a few apartment complexes a year.   Vela Uptown a high rise on N College St will be starting supposedly in the 1st quarter of 2024. 

The problem uptown is 2 large landowners that have tied up the land.  Levine all over 1st Ward and this absolute stupid master development agreement with Peebles on the county owned land in 2nd Ward.  Plus the county owns blocks of land that has stalled out in growth on N Tryon aka the Hal Marshall site.   The deal at 7th and Tryon all fell apart partly the city's fault as developer could not make the numbers work for office.   So when you take all these large tracts tied up by Levine and the county you don't have much land left.  

I have said this repeatedly I have been to every high growth city in the south and there is NONE with as much vacant land as uptown Charlotte. Not Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Houston, Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth, Atlanta, Raleigh, Nashville etc.  Not one has vast tracts of land tied up by just 1-2 landowners.  

But the city and county have contributed to this greatly in their so called deal making!  

and since I can rant as good as @RANYC that eyesore of a garage Levine built and never opened for some reason (and I have my suspicions) should be used a urban warfare training center for Fort Liberty and when they get done with they can literally blow it up.     Something is wrong the structure or it would have been opened.  But the lack of investigative media in this town we will never know.  It is a totally embarassment for this city.    Prove me wrong on that garage someone why has it not opened???  The state of NC should have sued Levine for breach of contract as UNCC was going to use parking spaces there and now they have a gravel lot on one of his vacant lots.    Rant over.   Now back to our regular programming.  

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by KJHburg

[Synopsis101]

That’s the Hall House replacement? Better than I expected.

[KJHburg]

3 hours ago, RANYC said:

This Monday's gripes: 

 

• One core improvement I'd like to see at Truist Field is to replace the God-forsaken black chain-link fence along 4th Street adjacent to the venue.  Missed opportunity there and a visual embarassment in the guts of the city.

 

this is a site for development I think it was proposed as an office building or something.  Would make a good small apartment building with ground floor retail like up in Kannapolis.   This is under construction in downtown Kannapolis now 

Stadium Lofts | Apartments in Kannapolis, NC (livestadiumlofts.com)   site maybe slightly smaller but something like and yes no parking needed as in the most walkable part of the city. 

 

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

this is a site for development I think it was proposed as an office building or something.  Would make a good small apartment building with ground floor retail like up in Kannapolis.   This is under construction in downtown Kannapolis now 

Stadium Lofts | Apartments in Kannapolis, NC (livestadiumlofts.com)   site maybe slightly smaller but something like and yes no parking needed as in the most walkable part of the city. 

 

I absolutely love that project in Kannapolis and believe it would be phenomenal to have residential along that strip with ground floor retail, and you're right, no garage needed at all.  If apartment buildings with no parking and car-less tenants can get built in the Optimist Park area and in Seversville, then how are we going without them in the pit of freaking Uptown.  

[DMann]

I do not believe that rendering of the replacement for the Hall House is correct.  The old facade was not saved and expect to see more of a suburban look.

[KJHburg]

8 minutes ago, DMann said:

I do not believe that rendering of the replacement for the Hall House is correct.  The old facade was not saved and expect to see more of a suburban look.

I think they are trying to replicate the look somewhat and no the facade was not saved.  

[RANYC]

24 minutes ago, DMann said:

I do not believe that rendering of the replacement for the Hall House is correct.  The old facade was not saved and expect to see more of a suburban look.

The new building was designed with Art Deco Architecture in a nod to its predecessor, the Hall House.

[RANYC]

Question for the group: Given Charlotte Center City Partners gets north of 50% of its funding from the City, is there a reasonable case to be made for the city to encourage a narrowing of the focus for the Non-Profit so that it strictly focuses on intensive efforts to enhance Uptown and get it toward a specific set of measurable aims?  IMO, Uptown needs intensive remediation if we really want it to be a bustling 18-24 hour mixed-lifestyle, national destination, and places like South End and Dilworth and Plaza are fine on their own and really only serve to give CCCP bigger numerical impacts to boast.

[KJHburg]

Friend was uptown tonight and he said Monarch Market was crowded and this was around 7 pm.  Truist tower lit up. 

[AltNative]

12 hours ago, KJHburg said:

 

 

The Monarch Market folks did a great job making it look exactly like the renderings. It took me a second to figure out if it was a real photo or marketing rendering

[DMann]

The bar area looks great, but the hall is too small and congested.  Cannot hold a conversation at a table.

[SouthEndCLT811]

1 hour ago, DMann said:

The bar area looks great, but the hall is too small and congested.  Cannot hold a conversation at a table.

Plus an Old Fashioned costs close to $20 and their $4 High Life is really a pony bottle.  Same one The Ugly sells for $1.50.

We have a friend that owns one of the food options at MM so we'll be back but maybe just to eat.  Sorry for the old man "get off my lawn" vibes in this post but we couldn't believe the bar prices.  But can't blame 'em if people are willing to pay it

[Professor]

On 12/5/2023 at 6:19 PM, RANYC said:

Question for the group: Given Charlotte Center City Partners gets north of 50% of its funding from the City, is there a reasonable case to be made for the city to encourage a narrowing of the focus for the Non-Profit so that it strictly focuses on intensive efforts to enhance Uptown and get it toward a specific set of measurable aims?  IMO, Uptown needs intensive remediation if we really want it to be a bustling 18-24 hour mixed-lifestyle, national destination, and places like South End and Dilworth and Plaza are fine on their own and really only serve to give CCCP bigger numerical impacts to boast.

  What "aims" are you speaking of, and what do you feel is keeping Charlotte from being a bustling 18-24 hour destination? What do you suggest? Would keeping bars and restaurants open 24-hours a day do the trick?  I don't really hear complaints about Charlotte being a sleepy town. What around-the-clock American city do you feel could serve a positive influential model for Charlotte to follow in regard to uptown enhancement and future?  Being that Charlotte is growing like crazy, do you not feel that the city will eventually grow into a place you find highly acceptable without remediation, goal setting and measuring? I think we are lucky being somewhere that is growing like crazy and seeing the change that come with growth, most of it anyway. 

[kermit]

3 hours ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

Plus an Old Fashioned costs close to $20 and their $4 High Life is really a pony bottle.  Same one The Ugly sells for $1.50.

We have a friend that owns one of the food options at MM so we'll be back but maybe just to eat.  Sorry for the old man "get off my lawn" vibes in this post but we couldn't believe the bar prices.  But can't blame 'em if people are willing to pay it

Don’t apologize. This is a fight that must be faught. The future of our civilization depends on our victory on this front.

Pony bottle, $4?… what bullcrap.

Edited December 9, 2023 by kermit

[15895]

4 hours ago, Larry Singer said:

  What "aims" are you speaking of, and what do you feel is keeping Charlotte from being a bustling 18-24 hour destination? What do you suggest? Would keeping bars and restaurants open 24-hours a day do the trick?  I don't really hear complaints about Charlotte being a sleepy town. What around-the-clock American city do you feel could serve a positive influential model for Charlotte to follow in regard to uptown enhancement and future?  Being that Charlotte is growing like crazy, do you not feel that the city will eventually grow into a place you find highly acceptable without remediation, goal setting and measuring? I think we are lucky being somewhere that is growing like crazy and seeing the change that come with growth, most of it anyway. 

Charlotte’s growing into a city similar in build to Dallas (Metro area of  7.76MM) & Houston (Metro area of 7.34MM) & some people don’t want to be like Dallas or Houston. Which for those who need to know, Houston has city limits of over 640 Sq. Miles and a density of 3,600/PPSM and Charlotte has a density of 2,800/PPSM in 300 sq. Miles for those who like to rag on Houston’s urbanity).

Dallas & Houston are among the largest metro areas in the U.S. & fastest growing too. The growth is very sprawl and low dense & some people are Dissatisfied with that despite pretty much supporting every policy that enables that. I mean, how does one build less urban development in booming cities compared to cities losing population? How are there less apartments U/C? Less transit being built? Etc. I believe that answer is sprawl.

So it does get old to hear certain criticisms and it’s like…. If you’re going to complain, at least have beliefs that support the things you want. Or at very least… don’t rag on other booming sunbelts… But wanting a certain outcome and supporting things contrary to the outcome. Eh. 

And I *love* the question of what city could serve as a model. It’s a question that goes completely unanswered but if one is full of criticism of Charlotte, surely there’s somewhere you could point to… anywhere? Nowhere? 

Is it somewhere in between Atlanta, Houston, Nashville, Raleigh, Dallas, Houston? 

Somewhere in between Denver, Minneapolis, Portland, San Diego, Seattle? 

Somewhere in between Chicago, New York, San Francisco, Boston? 

How does Center City become more activated? When people are less excited about seeing a skyscraper from College Street in the distance (Queens Bridge) and more eager to see College Street have a road diet, bike lane, bus lane, wider sidewalks and an outdoor market every weekend with local vendors, etc. Or maybe move to center city and contribute to more residents lol. People live in pretty big houses with big yards themselves (even if it is super close to SouthEnd or denser pockets) and want to say what will make the urbanity better but not willing to actually live it themselves and therefore can’t see what matters most to residents & what actually matters. They just drive (or even take transit) here & there to get a taste of urbanity, see tall skyscrapers, see a special event and think “wow, big city” and go back to their big house. Legacy Union is cool for them to see, but could be depressing to those who live nearby who probably prefer walking to Frazier Park on Irwin Creek Greenway than strolling around legacy Union, Graham St. Etc. Most of my neighbors in the Catalyst building always headed for Gateway side of uptown for leisure and pleasure. Does anyone even on here live in SouthEnd?

I feel like most people on here live in single family housing or farther out from center city? I implore you…. Move to uptown (the cost of living is cheap, right?). Then let’s talk. Down size in sq. Footage, get rid of your car. Soak up the urban lifestyle. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[DMann]

I will go one further, make College, Church,  3rd, 4th, and 5th Streets 2 way.

[RANYC]

4 hours ago, Larry Singer said:

  What "aims" are you speaking of, and what do you feel is keeping Charlotte from being a bustling 18-24 hour destination? What do you suggest? Would keeping bars and restaurants open 24-hours a day do the trick?  I don't really hear complaints about Charlotte being a sleepy town. What around-the-clock American city do you feel could serve a positive influential model for Charlotte to follow in regard to uptown enhancement and future?  Being that Charlotte is growing like crazy, do you not feel that the city will eventually grow into a place you find highly acceptable without remediation, goal setting and measuring? I think we are lucky being somewhere that is growing like crazy and seeing the change that come with growth, most of it anyway. 

for starters, more foot traffic across more of uptown and for longer periods of time.  i'm in uptown constantly and while return to office has increased presences in uptown and generated longer lines at lunch venues, downtown's vitality is still rather linear and lacking in depth and still very event-specific.  By event-specific, I mean that when there isn't a major event happening at one of our "big box" venues, uptown can be eerily quiet/sedate, and I'd like to see more energy and more of a mix of activities and interest groups, socially and culturally, in uptown.  I'd like to see uptown become more of a self-sustaining urban neighborhood whose mix of uses and density make it bustling with pedestrians whether there's a football game or spectrum arena event or not.  I'd also like to see the proportion of uptown dedicated to surface lots come down measurably.  By the way, there are still plenty of places all around uptown that are still not very inviting for walkers / strollers.  I've seen many near-misses at various intersections.  I could go on and on but alas, my question in my post was more focused on the governance model around continuously improving uptown in particular.  right now, most initiatives appear to sit with center city partners but what of the idea of the organization focusing more on uptown, setting goals for the future of uptown and working towards those goals versus setting goals for a much broader center city territory.  i do think good ideas come out of charlotte center city partners like bridging the rail trail divide over 277 or morphing 1st ward into an urban UNC Charlotte campus accompanying a tech innovation hub, but I also wonder if the org struggles to execute as expeditiously as it could if its focus were narrowed.

Edited December 9, 2023 by RANYC

[15895]

I struggle to think of southern cities with a more vibrant and robust Downtown than Charlotte’s.

Charleston, New Orleans & Nashville I guess? Obviously due to touristy stuff. Maybe Austin a bit? I think it’s a stretch to say downtown  Austin is notably more vibrant etc than uptown (in a 18-24 hour destination.) I definitely don’t think downtowns Dallas, Houston or Atlanta are all that much better in that department. 

So it’s still. At what point are the areas of improvement for Charlotte & uptown worth criticizing as opposed to wanting it to be something its not nor wants to be? There’s plenty of improvement for literally everywhere in the world. But at some point, the criticism isn’t really applicable or makes sense. More local restaurants, more Charlotte, more affordable housing, more parks, support for local business. That’s criticism I can get behind for uptown. 
 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[RANYC]

4 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I struggle to think of southern cities with a more vibrant and robust Downtown than Charlotte’s.

Charleston, New Orleans & Nashville I guess? Obviously due to touristy stuff. Maybe Austin a bit? I think it’s a stretch to say downtown  Austin is notably more vibrant etc than uptown (in a 18-24 hour destination.) I definitely don’t think downtowns Dallas, Houston or Atlanta are all that much better in that department. 

So it’s still. At what point are the areas of improvement for Charlotte & uptown worth criticizing as opposed to wanting it to be something its not nor wants to be? There’s plenty of improvement for literally everywhere in the world. But at some point, the criticism isn’t really applicable or makes sense. More local restaurants, more Charlotte, more affordable housing, more parks, support for local business. That’s criticism I can get behind for uptown. 
 

 

I'm not benchmarking uptown.  I'm setting a standard for what I'd like to see uptown and for how the broader community might engage more frequently and more substantively with uptown, and then contemplating a governance model that might better attain that standard or those standards.  The US hasn't really done car-less, pedestrian-centric density all that well in most places and if you did want a city whose design principles you might model, there might be a good argument for looking overseas.

[KJHburg]

2 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I'm not benchmarking uptown.  I'm setting a standard for what I'd like to see uptown and for how the broader community might engage more frequently and more substantively with uptown, and then contemplating a governance model that might better attain that standard or those standards.  The US hasn't really done car-less, pedestrian-centric density all that well in most places and if you did want a city whose design principles you might model, there might be a good argument for looking overseas.

as for uptown something I saw in Austin make me think.  Every block there downtown is a hotel or apartment tower or both.  We need more residential all over uptown not on the edges.  We need to have 2 Wells Fargo convert to residential along with Johnston Bldg and along old Duke offices.  Downtown Austin is so vibrant because you are never far from a residential tower. 

Speaking of uptown here is the remains of the Duke Energy data center on S College and old offices on S Church to be converted to residential.  I hope that gets started soon.   anyone know when that will happen?  

as for the data center site I hear several hotel brands not represented in the market are looking around.  Hopefully one lands here on the convention center owned parcel on that larger parcel. 

[15895]

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

I'm not benchmarking uptown.  I'm setting a standard for what I'd like to see uptown and for how the broader community might engage more frequently and more substantively with uptown, and then contemplating a governance model that might better attain that standard or those standards.  The US hasn't really done car-less, pedestrian-centric density all that well in most places and if you did want a city whose design principles you might model, there might be a good argument for looking overseas.

The U.S. hasn’t really done pedestrian-centric density all that well in most places. So which places does the U.S. have that does pedestrian density somewhat well?  Or from New York to Jacksonville are they just all around pretty much the same?

I’m actually in totally agreement with you AND I know Charlotte is 100% capable of doing & being those things. 

And I find your post to generally be very accurate, very sober, very honest & I enjoy reading your post. Really, I’m just projecting on you (since you’re entertaining it) based on a comment with Larry Singer. So my post are sorta unnecessarily directed at you so apologies for that. 
 

But To see Charlotte change in the way some of us espouse, if Charlotte wants to be different than Atlanta, we should champion those policies and maybe stop obsessing over statistics that is contrary to what we want. There definitely needs to be higher corporate taxes to at least the historical amount. There needs to be more taxes on the wealthy, more social programs, more policy that punishes low dense development, not approve developments like in the form of river district. And yes, Charlotte maybe would be passed up for a Fortune 500 HQ over say Austin or Nashville over taxation. Is that terrible? Yea, maybe charlottes growth would slow down. But maybe that slower growth would better align with the vision that some have for Charlotte? 

The Amtrak money NC got. You can thank Democrats for that. You can thank our focus on sustainability. Republicans are against it. You can thank we preferred to invest in green infrastructure over further tax cuts. Our policies are NOT always business friendly. And I think we shouldn’t run away from that. You can’t really have it both ways. Does one want low cost, low government investment, next-to-nothing funding of transit and refusal to build adequately? Charlotte could easily support the same infrastructure as MARTA. It just cost money that Charlotte & NC has or could have but chooses not to build.. You don’t become a 18-24 hour city with good transit, density, etc by being cheap, & by voting Republican. And you’re not going to be some low cost, low tax, high growth booming area stealing Fortune 500 HQ’s from other high cost areas by voting Democrat. IMO. And I bet Larry Singer would agree on that. & I’m fine with not putting “most business friendly” and “lowest corporate taxes” at the top of my list of things I support. I think that’s a bad thing (to an extent).

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

as for uptown something I saw in Austin make me think.  Every block there downtown is a hotel or apartment tower or both.  We need more residential all over uptown not on the edges.  We need to have 2 Wells Fargo convert to residential along with Johnston Bldg and along old Duke offices.  Downtown Austin is so vibrant because you are never far from a residential tower. 

Speaking of uptown here is the remains of the Duke Energy data center on S College and old offices on S Church to be converted to residential.  I hope that gets started soon.   anyone know when that will happen?  

as for the data center site I hear several hotel brands not represented in the market are looking around.  Hopefully one lands here on the convention center owned parcel on that larger parcel. 

Oh wow, has a decision been made to convert the old data center spot to residential?  I may have missed that.  That's great news.

[RANYC]

Someone posted about this CVS in Manhattan, along 14th street.  It got me to thinking about big chain re-uses of otherwise vacant, moribund historic structures in CBDs, including in Charlotte's.

First pic is the NYC CVS.  Second pic is the Charlotte National Bank building that could perhaps be reactivated as a similar use.