Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[RANYC]

So frustrating to see motorists using S. Tryon approaching Hill Street as a raceway at all times of the day.  A question to you tactical urbanists out there, would a roundabout at Hill and Tryon make sense, or frankly, more roundabouts throughout Uptown, especially at its points of entry?  Perhaps McDowell and Brooklyn Village Way?

[CLT Development]

43 minutes ago, RANYC said:

So frustrating to see motorists using S. Tryon approaching Hill Street as a raceway at all times of the day.  A question to you tactical urbanists out there, would a roundabout at Hill and Tryon make sense, or frankly, more roundabouts throughout Uptown, especially at its points of entry?  Perhaps McDowell and Brooklyn Village Way?

I have to say... Having experienced the suburban roundabouts in this town,  I feel like drivers here would be even more distracted in an urban roundabout scenario. I'd worry for pedestrian safety if folks don't have to stop at a red light in Uptown. I've crossed a few roundabouts in urban scenarios in Europe and Asia, they worked because it was muscle memory. NYC has a couple of them, but they are on a massive scale and the volume of pedestrians force the cars to be accountable. It's just my personal opinion that round-a-bouts are apparatuses built for moving cars, not people.

Just my two cents. I would like a more visual solution like a well landscaped two way chicane like below.

Edited August 7, 2023 by CLT Development

[RANYC]

56 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

I have to say... Having experienced the suburban roundabouts in this town,  I feel like drivers here would be even more distracted in an urban roundabout scenario. I'd worry for pedestrian safety if folks don't have to stop at a red light in Uptown. I've crossed a few roundabouts in urban scenarios in Europe and Asia, they worked because it was muscle memory. NYC has a couple of them, but they are on a massive scale and the volume of pedestrians force the cars to be accountable. It's just my personal opinion that round-a-bouts are apparatuses built for moving cars, not people.

Just my two cents. I would like a more visual solution like a well landscaped two way chicane like below.

Understand your point, but I was of the belief that a well-designed/well-constructed roundabout might serve as a continuous mitigant to rampant speeding by introducing complexity in the roadway, whereas now there's basically speed mania until and unless there's a red light.  I should add that I see the red lights run quite often.  Yes, roundabouts move cars, but they do have the effect of slowing them down due to the negotiation required. 

Roundabouts also serve as gateways or can bookend corridors.  Might be a nice "finish" on the entry into Uptown versus the black chain link fence and drought-stressed saplings we've got now.

Edited August 7, 2023 by RANYC

[KJHburg]

Maybe a speed table like at Camden and Worthington that slows traffic down?  

[turbocraig]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

Maybe a speed table like at Camden and Worthington that slows traffic down?  

Maybe the occasional cop ticketing people for speeding might have an effect.  When was the last time anyone saw someone pulled over for speeding downtown?   I live down here and I can’t remember.  In fact, the only time I really see police presence downtown is traffic mitigation during games and concerts.  Who cares that Chargers and Mustangs sail down Graham St at 65+mph?  We may, but does anyone else?

[RANYC]

4 minutes ago, turbocraig said:

Maybe the occasional cop ticketing people for speeding might have an effect.  When was the last time anyone saw someone pulled over for speeding downtown?   I live down here and I can’t remember.  In fact, the only time I really see police presence downtown is traffic mitigation during games and concerts.  Who cares that Chargers and Mustangs sail down Graham St at 65+mph?  We may, but does anyone else?

The city council, mayor, and at least the planning department say they care by codifying the pursuit of widespread safe walking environments through the 2040 Comp Plan.  But you’re right, whether they’ve synced up enforcement of policy or put resources behind such enforcement is a separate matter altogether.

I witnessed a close call this morning in uptown.  A pedestrian was in the crosswalk on college street at 3rd walking in front of cars in their respective lanes stopped at a red light.  An SUV was driving up the far right lane of College Street and couldn’t see the pedestrian in the crosswalk.  The driver was about to drive right into the crosswalk but caught sight of the pedestrian just before a catastrophic encounter and threw on brakes.  I should add that there is a sign that reads “NO TURN ON RED” at that intersection, but the SUV was quite ready to ignore it.  Once the pedestrian finished her crossing, the SUV proceeded to make the right on red anyway.  I shudder to think what might have happened had the pedestrian been pushing a stroller.  I also shudder to think what might have occurred had someone been crossing on a scooter given reduced ability to react/pivot from such threats because of the scooter’s own speed & momentum.  While no one was hurt on the close call I witnessed, what was hurt by anyone looking on from their vehicles was the idea that they should get around uptown in anything but their cars.  

[davidclt]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:22 AM, turbocraig said:

Maybe the occasional cop ticketing people for speeding might have an effect.  When was the last time anyone saw someone pulled over for speeding downtown?   I live down here and I can’t remember.  In fact, the only time I really see police presence downtown is traffic mitigation during games and concerts.  Who cares that Chargers and Mustangs sail down Graham St at 65+mph?  We may, but does anyone else?

I'm going to say something a bit contrarian here but some of the issue rests on CDOT. They should time the lights on the roads so if you get moving on one (College, Church, Mcdowell, etc.) you can sail at the speed limit on the street. As it stands now if you drive the speed limit on any of those streets, you proceed two blocks at a time. I do realize there's a contingent of some people driving Chargers, Mustangs and other cars at excessive speed and those should be addressed but CDOT makes driving in this town a miserable experience often times - with poor timing, broken sensors (but really just apathy about traffic flow). 

[kermit]

^ It aint rocket science. Automated red light, bus (streetcar) lane and speeding enforcement (cameras --> fines in your mailbox) would do the trick and would pay for themselves (unlike more cops).   Its too bad that local and state pols are completely unwilling to hold drivers accountable for their law breaking (and drivers feel entitled to break the law). Speeding is not a victimless crime when it discourages people from walking.

I saw this in Philadelphia axios today. Its a pretty interesting cell-phone tracking dataset. If accurate it shows us that Charlotte has a bunch of work to do on traffic calming if we are actually taking Vision Zero seriously (but we are not taking it seriously).  Narrower streets for public health!

https://www.axios.com/local/philadelphia/2023/08/07/philadelphia-road-speed-limit-safety

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by kermit

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

^ It aint rocket science. Automated red light, bus (streetcar) lane and speeding enforcement (cameras --> fines in your mailbox) would do the trick and would pay for themselves (unlike more cops).   Its too bad that local and state pols are completely unwilling to hold drivers accountable for their law breaking (and drivers feel entitled to break the law). Speeding is not a victimless crime when it discourages people from walking.

I saw this in Philadelphia axios today. Its a pretty interesting cell-phone tracking dataset. If accurate it shows us that Charlotte has a bunch of work to do on traffic calming if we are actually taking Vision Zero seriously (but we are not taking it seriously).  Narrower streets for public health!

https://www.axios.com/local/philadelphia/2023/08/07/philadelphia-road-speed-limit-safety

 

You mean Zero Vision

[CLTBuckeye]

Self driving taxis being unloaded into The Francis garage

[kermit]

^ Can't wait to start putting traffic cones on their hoods...

https://www.govtech.com/question-of-the-day/why-are-people-putting-traffic-cones-on-self-driving-cars-in-san-francisco

[Windsurfer]

On 8/8/2023 at 9:15 PM, davidclt said:

I'm going to say something a bit contrarian here but some of the issue rests on CDOT. They should time the lights on the roads so if you get moving on one (College, Church, Mcdowell, etc.) you can sail at the speed limit on the street. As it stands now if you drive the speed limit on any of those streets, you proceed two blocks at a time. I do realize there's a contingent of some people driving Chargers, Mustangs and other cars at excessive speed and those should be addressed but CDOT makes driving in this town a miserable experience often times - with poor timing, broken sensors (but really just apathy about traffic flow). 

They used to do just this back in the 70s.  I'm not sure why they stopped.   Perhaps speeders trying to make it as far as they can before the run ended?

I remember my dad talking about he and his buddies racing down Times Square while on leave during WWII to see who could go farthest before the string of greens changed. Apparently, he got up over 50 through Manhattan.  Not proud of this by any means.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Windsurfer
grammar

[go_vertical]

The thing is that if the timings are done correctly you wouldn't be able to speed through the greens.  A properly timed set-up would allow you to start when a light turns green and if you are driving the speed limit you would arrive at the next light right as it's turning green.  If you speed through at 50 to 55 in a 35 zone then you would hit the next intersection before the light has changed.  It is possible to time things to allow mostly smooth flow while still hindering speeders.

[KJHburg]

this is quite a change in look for the old Packard Place now the Stuward.

check out the new look

https://www.thriftcres.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/North-Pond_TheStuwardBrochure.pdf

 

[turbocraig]

3 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

this is quite a change in look for the old Packard Place now the Stuward.

check out the new look

https://www.thriftcres.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/North-Pond_TheStuwardBrochure.pdf

 

That was on here somewhere a while ago I’m pretty sure.  I like the new color, but that name is stupid.  So contrived sounding.  Shoulda just left it The Packard.

[KJHburg]

This is good news evidently CBRE is getting interest  on Two Wells Fargo for possible conversion to residential on the taller 32 story tower.    Also I did not know this also conversion possiblities for the historic Johnston Building the 17 story building built in 1924.   That would be a great conversion to residential.  We need to reduce office space uptown especially older buildings and increase residential offerings.

""CBRE is currently working on two early-stage office-to-residential conversion projects in uptown, Gildea said — The Johnston Building at 212 S. Tryon St. and Two Wells Fargo Center at 301 S. Tryon St. Gildea said that since both projects are still in the early stages, he couldn't provide details.

"They're at a really sensitive stage," he said. "We are taking some offers and waiting on feedback from Wells on (301 S. Tryon). "It's one of the first large-scale conversion opportunities in the city, and it’ll be a fascinating case study to follow."

The 3.4-acre block where Two Wells Fargo sits hit the market in June. CBRE was hired to market the 834,563-square-foot property, which includes the 30-story office tower currently occupied by Wells Fargo & Co. (NYSE: WFC), as well as an 11-story office building, the plaza fronting the tower and the building atrium.""
Uptown Charlotte to see uptick in office conversions amid challenges? - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

""Asana Partners is also working with Washington, D.C.-based MRP Realty on an office-to-residential conversion at 526 S. Church St. MRP purchased the property from Duke Energy Corp. in December for $35 million. The project will convert the 13-story office building into 450 multifamily units with 60,000 square feet of activated ground-floor retail and a separate retail building at the corner of Brooklyn Village Avenue and South Church Street.

Gildea said, however, that these types of projects are difficult to achieve because office-building floor plates are much different than those of multifamily, and the conversion is very costly. He noted that cities like Nashville, Tennessee; Dallas; and Chicago have been successfully converting office for some time thanks to incentives from their local governments.""

Edited August 17, 2023 by KJHburg

[go_vertical]

Man, I really hope these happen.  It truly would be a win-win for the city and region especially if they go smoothly and prompt others to do the same in a few more "past their prime" office buildings.

[15895]

I still don’t see the value for Charlotte putting any public $’s into these conversions. The only people that would really benefit IMO are the wealthy individuals and companies that own the properties. I see a huge benefit for landowners…. Though to me it seems like just transferring wealth to these large multinational companies when Charlotte could subsidize way more housing, far cheaper at the same price… and these conversions would likely cater to higher income people (even if they are “affordable” - affordable housing in uptown is not affordable to most people in Charlotte - especially lower income people).

Though I’m all for the private sector using private dollars on these conversions in Charlotte. Otherwise, throw $$$ in other neighborhoods and if you’re going to in uptown… there’s plenty of space to build way more housing at a fraction of the cost… If the rationale is to revitalize an area & pumping investment to hope for more development to follow. Levine & Peebles says hi…I would love to see the conversions, but it should be with private dollars. 

I really love the Duke conversion. That looks snazzy from what I remember of the renderings. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

I could put this under Good New, Higher Education in Charlotte area but I will put it here.

Hugh McColl, UNC Charlotte leader join push for tech hub - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

""Retired Bank of America Corp. (NYSE: BAC) CEO and newly installed UNC Charlotte Board of Trustees member Hugh McColl wants to help the university lead the creation of a technology education and research hub in the center city — and the school is already embracing the possibilities.

McColl, who became a trustee in July, told CBJ this week that he has had discussions with UNC Charlotte Chancellor Sharon Gaber about the prospect of a tech hub, a concept that ties in with an effort begun last year by Charlotte Center City Partners to explore a tech-entrepreneur hub similar to Atlanta’s Georgia Tech-backed district.  

The Dubois Center is the university’s 11-story, 143,000-square-foot building opened in uptown’s First Ward in 2011.

It is home to UNC Charlotte’s uptown campus, with 1,400 students participating in various programs and classes, including eight departments based there. Study areas include urban design, education, public administration, and health administration.

Named for Gaber’s predecessor, Phil Dubois, who led UNC Charlotte from 2005 to 2020, the uptown campus cost $50.4 million to build, or $68.5 million adjusted for inflation. The Dubois Center is at Ninth and Brevard streets and occupies land owned by Levine Properties.""

My thoughts: this has been needed for a LONG time and there is plenty of vacant office space to start this up immediately.  No need to wait on some grandiose building just lease some space at one of the many high rises maybe the Charlotte Plaza space where the CLT School of Law was located and I think most of that was not really changed much even when Lowes briefly occupied it.  Then once it grows add a building to UNC Charlotte uptown campus but space should not be a problem uptown right now;.  

 

[JHart]

16 hours ago, KJHburg said:

He noted that cities like Nashville, Tennessee; Dallas; and Chicago have been successfully converting office for some time thanks to incentives from their local governments.""

12 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Though I’m all for the private sector using private dollars on these conversions in Charlotte. Otherwise, throw $$$ in other neighborhoods and if you’re going to in uptown… there’s plenty of space to build way more housing at a fraction of the cost…

The reason you're seeing so many articles and people posting about it is to slowly work the idea that this would benefit the city to get local funds to bailout commercial space in Uptown. So many of these office spaces have neglected maintenance projects that they can no longer renovate floor plans without addressing the core building systems at a much higher cost. You can only put lipstick on a pig so many times and in the current environment you can no longer offload these buildings so they are looking for public assistance. 

You're spot on there is so much available land to build residential development in every part of this city. 

 

[atlrvr]

I agree that $$$ from local government is a bailout.  As I posted in the 7th/Tryon thread, private sector needs to operate with efficiency, and if someone invested in a office building and can no longer make it work, it's not the government role to subsidize the redevelopment into housing.  They (or their lender) can sell it for whatever loss required to get the numbers to work.

 

Edit:  I'll add the desire/ability of Duke or Wells to sell for a low price is much easier than an investor owner of an office building.  These are near $0 assets on their balance sheets at this point.

[KJHburg]

Plaza refreshes at 301 South College aka One Wells Fargo aka the Jukebox and plaza refresh at Truist Tower aka Hearst Tower. 

Today.  Lots of nice touches especially at 1WFC.   Last 2 photos from Truist Tower. 

[KJHburg]

The 1924 Johnston Building is being discussed being turned into apartments according to CBRE and a recent Biz Journal article.

Though one side faces the adjoining 200 South Tryon building there is an alleyway between them  This could be the side for your less expensive units.  I noticed walking down that (very clean) alley that the Johnston Building goes back almost twice the distance from Tryon as the adjoining 200 South Tryon.  So not even all those units on the alley side would be blocked by the office tower next door.   I know many buildings and apartments in NYC have similar situations isn't that correct @RANYC   Obviously your cheaper apartments would be lower floors on the alley side but the rest of the building due to the Ruth Chris  next door have great views.  

In my thoughts this is an excellent office building to convert to residential with its ground floor retail and nice lobby with barrel vaulted ceilings and elegant elevators. 

[RANYC]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

The 1924 Johnston Building is being discussed being turned into apartments according to CBRE and a recent Biz Journal article.

Though one side faces the adjoining 200 South Tryon building there is an alleyway between them  This could be the side for your less expensive units.  I noticed walking down that (very clean) alley that the Johnston Building goes back almost twice the distance from Tryon as the adjoining 200 South Tryon.  So not even all those units on the alley side would be blocked by the office tower next door.   I know many buildings and apartments in NYC have similar situations isn't that correct @RANYC   Obviously your cheaper apartments would be lower floors on the alley side but the rest of the building due to the Ruth Chris  next door have great views.  

In my thoughts this is an excellent office building to convert to residential with its ground floor retail and nice lobby with barrel vaulted ceilings and elegant elevators. 

Yes, you are correct.  In fact, affording a flat that gets you out of the shadows can motivate quite the work ethic.

[carolinaboy]

I know there has been discussion about the abundance of surface parking in Uptown. Thanks to Urbanlooker on the Norfolk page for this link:

Parking in downtowns/uptowns