The Greensboro Triumph Center

[RALNATIVE]

No one knows exactly what it's going to be except for those that are working with the developers therefore this thread has always been speculation. I think all the suggestions simply get our minds turning. There's nothing wrong with throwing out possibilities---just my opinion.

Speculation is one thing, and I don't think that most people have a problem with pure speculation. But alot of what I have been reading in some of these posts is actually the skewing of facts, whether intentional or unintentional, and that is not cool.

[RALBOI]

cityboi - the reason that Ralboi stopping posting about this is because he realizes that even he is speculating about the project, and doesn't want to mislead anyone. Let's face it, if he "trully" was in the know about this, he would not be on a blog giving out details, any details or even hinting about it. He has probably heard something from someone who heard something from someone who works for the city that has overheard that a project is in the works, and has started a rumor to make people "think" that he/she knows more than they actually does. It happens all of the time.

As we have seen in a number of cases, the potential for this project has been exaggerated way beyond what is trully realistic.

I know ENOUGH, But not everything, I hope your not implying that I started a rumor, I have had developers come to these so call blogs in the pass to address issues and believe it or not, but I know for a Fact that a MAYOR from one of north carolina' major cities is a member right here on this site and SSC forum and you even have a urban design director up hear from one of these cities and that's not even a secret. So these BLOGS are not small time anymore they are very important, not to be ugly because am trying to be more civil on these forums. But you don't know what I know about this devlopement, so why don't you take your own advice and stop speculating about what you think I KNOW about the project. I have clearly stated my reasons for remaining silent.

[basket1058]

Of course this i'm adding is just speculation, and decidedly cynical speculation at that, but could it be that the megaproject in the works here is more of a very blurry vision than anything with serious investors and big-time suitors lined up. What i'm getting at is a project that could be more on the lines of what John Elkington tried (and did not succeed) in doing in Winston-Salem and that is conceive of a big, massive entertainment district, develop detailed plans, and heavily lobby developers into trying to implement this vision. Is the big developer in this case more of a "vision" guy with some solid experience who feels he can line up some tenants to create a big mega-project or is it something more solid. I don't bandy this out here to kill anybody's "buzz" about the project but as one who felt real dejection from hearing such big promises i'm always a bit skepital now when I hear them said elsewhere and I would be just as skeptical if the project were in Winston.

Its just that there are some parallels to the Elkington situation and the greensboro situation albeit the rumor mill in Greensboro has been speculating for a considerably shorter amount of time. I mean while no big prize tags were ever given out with Elkington's vision in Winston-Salem, at that time I heard speculation for everyhting from a department store, to NASCAR Cafe, to even a Crate and Barrel, none of which ever came particularly close to being realized. I mean its easy to slap a price tag on how big one's ambitous vision could go; over time a really class act, multi-block entertainment distirct probably could develop into a 200 million dollar project.

I guess the question we're all aching to know (or me at least) is whether the developer has deep pockets and is one banking real money on downtown's success or he is more of a "vision man" possibly one lured by the city to conceptualize and fully implement the city's ambitions. Given the talk of how Greensboro is the one city willing to make this happen and how it is up to them to make it happen, as I have heard, it makes me suspect that the latter is the possible scenario. Granted he might be one very good in the trade of selling visions to potential big developers but we don't know that as of yet. I don't purport to know who's in the know or how many people are in the know but with a big project like this I think it could be hard a climb to drum up the support and the demand, for that matter, for a big project like this but if Greensboro somehow can pull this off then i'll be one very suprised and pleased Triad resident.

[basket1058]

I must be rather jittery tonight but this post is addressed simply to the latest article from the News and Record about the mystery project which makes mention of another site being brought further into play:

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/70706008

[cityboi]

I must be rather jittery tonight but this post is addressed simply to the latest article from the News and Record about the mystery project which makes mention of another site being brought further into play:

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/70706008

Yes the developers are eyeing the Church Street Property (Duke Power site) It was also said they are scoping out a number of properties which could be why we are hearing reports about an unidentified developer drilling on the Bellmeade site. The developers are looking at additional sites for "secondary projects". One project attracts another. Its like the domino effect. so this thing seems to be pretty big.

and Ralboi.....yes these forums are not small time I even know of some one who post here thats a tv person on one of the Triad news stations. I wont say this person name because I want to protect their identity.

[cityboi]

Of course this i'm adding is just speculation, and decidedly cynical speculation at that, but could it be that the megaproject in the works here is more of a very blurry vision than anything with serious investors and big-time suitors lined up. What i'm getting at is a project that could be more on the lines of what John Elkington tried (and did not succeed) in doing in Winston-Salem and that is conceive of a big, massive entertainment district, develop detailed plans, and heavily lobby developers into trying to implement this vision. Is the big developer in this case more of a "vision" guy with some solid experience who feels he can line up some tenants to create a big mega-project or is it something more solid. I don't bandy this out here to kill anybody's "buzz" about the project but as one who felt real dejection from hearing such big promises i'm always a bit skepital now when I hear them said elsewhere and I would be just as skeptical if the project were in Winston.

Its just that there are some parallels to the Elkington situation and the greensboro situation albeit the rumor mill in Greensboro has been speculating for a considerably shorter amount of time. I mean while no big prize tags were ever given out with Elkington's vision in Winston-Salem, at that time I heard speculation for everyhting from a department store, to NASCAR Cafe, to even a Crate and Barrel, none of which ever came particularly close to being realized. I mean its easy to slap a price tag on how big one's ambitous vision could go; over time a really class act, multi-block entertainment distirct probably could develop into a 200 million dollar project.

I guess the question we're all aching to know (or me at least) is whether the developer has deep pockets and is one banking real money on downtown's success or he is more of a "vision man" possibly one lured by the city to conceptualize and fully implement the city's ambitions. Given the talk of how Greensboro is the one city willing to make this happen and how it is up to them to make it happen, as I have heard, it makes me suspect that the latter is the possible scenario. Granted he might be one very good in the trade of selling visions to potential big developers but we don't know that as of yet. I don't purport to know who's in the know or how many people are in the know but with a big project like this I think it could be hard a climb to drum up the support and the demand, for that matter, for a big project like this but if Greensboro somehow can pull this off then i'll be one very suprised and pleased Triad resident.

I remember Elkington's former vision. I think the difference in between his vision for downtown Winston-Salem and this mysterious proposal in Greensboro is that Greensboro's proposal is much further along and more real because of that. Now like I and others have said repeatedly, this in NOT a done deal for Greensboro. One thing can make this whole project go down the shoots and thats with any project that is proposed. It could have happened with Center Pointe. There were stumbling blocks that could have stopped that project dead in its tracks and we'd still have a vacant Wachovia Building today.

[RALNATIVE]

....and its probablly best if he does stop anyway because revealing too many details before the developers are ready could put the project in jeopordy.

Is this not exactly what I said in a previous post????

[RALNATIVE]

... but I know for a Fact that a MAYOR from one of north carolina' major cities is a member right here on this site and SSC forum and you even have a urban design director up hear from one of these cities and that's not even a secret.

That is the reason I made the comment about keeping one's pie hole shut so early in the game. We ALL know that these forums are read by all kinds of people, including developers and mayors. All that one has to do is GOOGLE the name of a city, and blogs like UP and SSC always come up. When people do research on a city, for reasons such as relocation, site selection, etc., they DO read blogs like this to get insight into a city. That is reason enough to keep facts FACTS, and keep speculation SPECULATION. This does not take a genius to understand.

[cityboi]

Is this not exactly what I said in a previous post????

However we dont know the details...only basic concepts like entertainment venues, hotel, convention center and residential. Talking about that is not going to put the project in jeopordy

That is the reason I made the comment about keeping one's pie hole shut so early in the game. We ALL know that these forums are read by all kinds of people, including developers and mayors. All that one has to do is GOOGLE the name of a city, and blogs like UP and SSC always come up. When people do research on a city, for reasons such as relocation, site selection, etc., they DO read blogs like this to get insight into a city. That is reason enough to keep facts FACTS, and keep speculation SPECULATION. This does not take a genius to understand.

I think Ralboi was very clear that what he knows is not speculation, but he does warn this is not in the bag for Greensboro so we do need to keep that in mind.

But you are right you can do a google and alot of urbanplanet threads come up. I even did a photo google of Greensboro one time and my avatar came up.

[JerseyBoy]

I remember Elkington's former vision. I think the difference in between his vision for downtown Winston-Salem and this mysterious proposal in Greensboro is that Greensboro's proposal is much further along and more real because of that. Now like I and others have said repeatedly, this in NOT a done deal for Greensboro. One thing can make this whole project go down the shoots and thats with any project that is proposed. It could have happened with Center Pointe. There were stumbling blocks that could have stopped that project dead in its tracks and we'd still have a vacant Wachovia Building today.

But how do you know it's further along? All we have is newspapers feeding us what ever the developer wants them to say, journalism isn't at its best these days ladies and gentlemen. The fact is none of us (well maybe a few) know REALLY how far along this thing is, what it will include, etc. As I've stated many times, it sounds like they IMO (the developers) keep cramming new stuff they come up with into each new article the News & Record writes. At first when the initial proposal was for a small themed village with shops, a hotel, and residential it sounded more realistic. Now its been blown way out of that scale, and sounds very unrealistic. The thing I want to know is why don't they reveal who the developer is? I mean it's not that big of a deal. I'm just very skeptical of this.

[cityboi]

But how do you know it's further along? All we have is newspapers feeding us what ever the developer wants them to say, journalism isn't at its best these days ladies and gentlemen. The fact is none of us (well maybe a few) no REALLY how far along this thing is, what it will include, etc. As I've stated many times, it sounds like they IMO (the developers) keep cramming new stuff they come up with into each new article the News & Record writes. At first when the initial proposal was for a small themed village with shops, a hotel, and residential it sounded more realistic. Now its been blown way out of that scale, and sounds very unrealistic. The thing I want to know is why don't they reveal who the developer is? I mean it's not that big of a deal. I'm just very skeptical of this.

The developer are not the ones releasing info. Also they dont keep coming up with stuff. This stuff was already conceptualized, its just that the media keeps getting new info about the project. its ok to be skeptical, thats all fine. The Mayor of Greensboro and Ray Gibbs were skeptical too....but now they believe the project is viable for Greensboro. But being skeptical doesnt mean this project wont happen or wont materialize the way its intended to happen. Also you and I dont know what this project is. Ralboi knows so I suspect he has better insight on how big this project is and how it could affect downtown than any of us regardless of our opinions on this project.

[kmurphy19662003]

But how do you know it's further along? All we have is newspapers feeding us what ever the developer wants them to say, journalism isn't at its best these days ladies and gentlemen. The fact is none of us (well maybe a few) no REALLY how far along this thing is, what it will include, etc. As I've stated many times, it sounds like they IMO (the developers) keep cramming new stuff they come up with into each new article the News & Record writes. At first when the initial proposal was for a small themed village with shops, a hotel, and residential it sounded more realistic. Now its been blown way out of that scale, and sounds very unrealistic. The thing I want to know is why don't they reveal who the developer is? I mean it's not that big of a deal. I'm just very skeptical of this.

You are exactly right. We know nothing. If anything, it seemed like Winston's proposed development was much further along and we all know what happened there. Not to mention the Krispy kreme headquarters fiasco. Certain forumers are reading too much in to the News and Record articles and then putting their own spin on it.

[JerseyBoy]

The developer are not the ones releasing info. Also they dont keep coming up with stuff. This stuff was already conceptualized, its just that the media keeps getting new info about the project.

Okay, that makes sense. But, don't you think this is a bit too good to be true?

[cityboi]

Okay, that makes sense. But, don't you think this is a bit too good to be true?

I tell you it does. I couldnt believe it at first too. I know exactly what you mean. I thought the ballpark would be as big as it gets for downtown Greensboro. Its hard to fathom the kind of stuff that could be in this. One of the Greensboro News & Record editorialist called it "bizzare" and "mysterious". Even people like Ray Gibbs and Mayor Holliday who always seem to be optimistic about the prospects for Greensboro's future were at first skeptical about this project. (you know its big if those two were skeptical) Its a natural knee jerk reaction especially dealing with a Greensboro project. But after receieving more info on the project they both think its very real and viable for Greensboro. If it wasnt these investors wouldnt give Greensboro the time of day. Big time national and international investors are not going to sink money into something they know is going to fail. But I think even when plans are revealed, people will be even more skeptical.

[RALNATIVE]

The thing I want to know is why don't they reveal who the developer is? I mean it's not that big of a deal. I'm just very skeptical of this.

Plain and simple, it's hype meant to attract attention to DT Greensboro. The more buzz they can create, the more attention gets drawn to the city, which in turn will make local developers who have ignored the area give it a second thought if they "think" that big out-of-town and international developers are eyeing Greensboro. It's a common tactic, but in no way is it strategic in terms of long range economic development. The thing of it is, the PR surrounding this situation is a nightmare, and IMO has been handled terribly. Developers are smarter than that, and it may just end up blowing up in their faces.

[JerseyBoy]

From my understanding, it doesn't matter who the developer is (well if it was Trump or the like then it would), but it matters what they are proposing that draws attention to the area.

[cityboi]

Plain and simple, it's hype meant to attract attention to DT Greensboro. The more buzz they can create, they more attention gets drawn to the city, which in turn will make local developers who have ignored the area give it a second thought. It's a common tactic, but in no way is it strategic in terms of long range economic development. The thing of it is, the PR surrounding this situation is a nightmare, and IMO has been handled terribly. Developers are smarter than that, and it may just end up blowing up in their faces.

You sound like you dont wont this to happen

[JerseyBoy]

You sound like you dont wont this to happen

No, I think he's just commenting on how bad the media in the Triad has handled this development.

[cityboi]

Well im excited about this. And when I hear Ray Gibbs say this project can change the face and character of downtown it just makes me even more impatient in finding out what this is. I mean what could this be that would change the whole character of downtown Greensboro? Whats even more intriguing is that if this does happen, think of all the additional spin-off development (not related to the project) that would come downtown. This one big project could attract other BIG things downtown.

[roningreensboro]

Well im excited about this. And when I hear Ray Gibbs say this project can change the face and character of downtown it just makes me even more impatient in finding out what this is. I mean what could this be that would change the whole character of downtown Greensboro? Whats even more intriguing is that if this does happen, think of all the additional spin-off development (not related to the project) that would come downtown. This one big project could attract other BIG things downtown.

The one thing I have been trying to imagine and invinsion is seeing all the parking lots in downtown suddenly filled with 20+ story office and condo buildings. Thats when and if this project goes through. Also I been wondering what our new signature tower will be and how tall. If this project goes through the LFI building will be second to a nice tall tower that can be from anywhere in GSO AHHH, my imagination is getting the best of me.

[twincity]

Hmmmm....Let's see...I guess First Horizon Park will get torn down since it is no longer needed, then a major league baseball team will relocate and construct a major league baseball stadium. Then a huge convention center, along with a House of Blues and other touristy crap will be built. Let' s not forget a major coporate headquarters...Oh I forgot about the 12 star luxury hotel with a nigara falls water feature. Did I leave anything out???

This thread is quickly becoming irrelevant...

you got a new one kmurphy...now the city's new tallest.

[cityboi]

The one thing I have been trying to imagine and invinsion is seeing all the parking lots in downtown suddenly filled with 20+ story office and condo buildings. Thats when and if this project goes through. Also I been wondering what our new signature tower will be and how tall. If this project goes through the LFI building will be second to a nice tall tower that can be from anywhere in GSO AHHH, my imagination is getting the best of me.

nothing wrong with imagination my man

[jervais]

you got a new one kmurphy...now the city's new tallest.

You all have jokes (lol)...I agree with citiboi there is nothing wrong with imagination

[cityboi]

I thought it was interesting that Ray Gibbs said the developers could buy additional land near the primary development site for "secondary projects" What those secondary projects are, nobody knows. But those developments would depend on whats being built on the primary site.

[blueJ]

It shouldn't be surprising that the developers are seeking additional properties around the primary site. We're really still unsure of that "primary" site but it appears that the Church street "area" seems to be the focal point. Properties adjacent to new development almost always attract renewed interest. This could also be an indication that the proposal is moving along quite well and that additional land is desired or needed. We know that we're not being told everything (hardly anything !), but could this be a smokescreen in order to conceal another possible site ? I could be wrong, but I don't believe the former North State chevrolet site is tied into this mega project for several reasons: ... #1-distance from the Church Street area, #2-drilling was seen on the properties, yet negotiations are still ongoing (or so we're told) with property owners for the main site, #3- The owners of the North State properties stated earlier that there was interest in the site from other developers ...